Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: humble on June 20, 2008, 02:17:48 PM
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I'm curious how well a "lend lease" FSO would do...
The allied airframes had a tremendous impact from Mid 1942 up thru the Koban bridgehead. Many VVS Guards units were equipped with P-39, P-40E, Spitfire V (not sure about hurricanes). The B-25, Boston and later A-20 played a huge role as well (the russians flew more A-20s then anyone).
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/Bochkov.jpg)
I think a P-39 A400, P-40E, B-25C vs 110C, 109F4, Ju-88 would be very interesting
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I believe Hurricane wise the VVS was equipped with the IIB or IIC; they changed the armament though to two ShVAK 20mm cannons and two ShKAS 7.62mm machine guns. From what I've read the VVS didn't particularly like the Spitfire MkV, and I think only one or two units were equipped with them.
Many people like the P39 but many less than dedicated 109 sticks; even less P40 sticks. I think 109E/F vs P400's and P40's would be a slaughter, personally. It would be nice if we had some early model Yak's to fill out the early Russian planeset, IMO they'd put up a better fight against Messerschmitts than any lend lease aircraft.
Not to say I wouldn't love an Eastern Front scenario. I would enjoy one more than any other. IMO we just don't have the planeset for one.
It could work if the Russians have a large numerical advantage, maybe?
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Seems to me the way the P-39D is modeled is quite... "generous"... and that it has very few flaws compared to some later planes.
Were it forced to go up against 109Fs it historically would be owned, but in AH would probably more than hold its own. The P-40E we have is really a P-40K (flight model) and the B-25 will soak up 700+ 7mm hits all in a localized area without destruction. I caught one in an FSO asleep at the wheel in my a6m2, unloaded most of my 7mms into him in steady flight at close range and nothing. Ack got him before I did.
I think the allies would have the upper hand on this one.
Definitely would be interesting to see something worked up. However, at the time of the invasion there were no lend-lease planes. Most were woefully obsolete spanish civil war planes, biplanes, etc. Thousands upon thousands were destroyed in the opening days. Now, if you get into the time where lend-lease planes are common, you've got improved LW rides in the air. Depending on the time frame, 190a-5s could be used, as well as the 109G-2 and if you push it into 1943, the 110g2 and 109g6. The 4x20mm guns on the 190a5 would be MUCH more effective at downing iron dogs (p-39s) and iron-like bombers (b-25s) than the single 20mm in the 109F.
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I have kept away from Eastern Front FSOs because of the lack of Terrains representing the Russian Front, We have FinRus and Karelia and as far as I know, Karelia is out of commission.
What is everyone's opinion on substituting terrains? Right now, Rhine Winter/Summer would probably be the best routes, as long as we look past the German City names on the terrain :)
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Krusty,
My understanding was the P-39 was VERY competitive at the altitudes in which the majority of the Eastern Front combat took place. The Russians at least found her to be every bit as good as their German opponents at low altitudes.
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Krusty,
My understanding was the P-39 was VERY competitive at the altitudes in which the majority of the Eastern Front combat took place. The Russians at least found her to be every bit as good as their German opponents at low altitudes.
I think the P-39 would do just fine vs the 109 in an FSO style engagement.
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Nef: If you're taking a poll, I have very few qualms. I mean as long as it's close. Like no "Japan" for an Eastern Front setup, that kinda stuff.
Saxman: The P-39 later models were somewhat competitive. Also note the VVS ran super-boost-levels that burned out the engines in a short number of sorties. They had so many they threw it away and put another in. Definitely not the "standard" power levels. However, many times the VVS liked US planes not necessarily for their advanced performance (as compared to VVS built planes) but because of the reliability of the engines, or the radios, or many other things that help in real combat but AH takes for granted. Early P-39D and P-400 models were a little outmatched, IMO. They had some speed going for them, but power drop-off was extreme and always being bounced by superior enemy takes its toll.
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I think the P-39 would do just fine vs the 109 in an FSO style engagement.
What would also be interesting is a later era Eastern Front, with the P-39Q vs 109G6s and 190s (and 110Gs) but the problem with this is the limited number of mid-43 VVS planes.
I don't even think the Yak9T was around at this time. The LA-5FN is a late model and much faster than the original LA-5 if I understand correctly. So if we did a 1943 setup for the VVS, it's the P-39Q and, well, I can't think of much else. Kind of boring for selection, eh?
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The Yak9T came around mid-late 43 IIRC... 190A5's, 109G2's and 109G6's vs. P400's, P39Q's, P40's (maybe?), and Yak9T's would be fun.
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Nef: If you're taking a poll, I have very few qualms. I mean as long as it's close. Like no "Japan" for an Eastern Front setup, that kinda stuff.
I guess you could call it a poll, just asking how people feel about subbing maps. One of the great thing about FSO and all Special Events is the Terrains, Dux and the Terrain Team do a great job and they never cease to amaze me. They have done an excellent job of creating new terrains and I try to incorporate any new terrain they release into my FSOs.
The atmosphere of the Arena including the planeset, rules, and settings are nothing without the terrains they create and without those terrains, you don't have FSO. Personally, I would rather wait to receive a map of the true area than to sub, but like I said, I wanted to know what others thought.
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The atmosphere of the Arena including the planeset, rules, and settings are nothing without the terrains they create and without those terrains, you don't have FSO. Personally, I would rather wait to receive a map of the true area than to sub...
I feel the same way since you asked. ;)
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The LA-5FN was introduced in the summer of 1943, as was the Yak-9T. The 1943 plane set is actually very good for an East Front setup, now that we also have the P-39, which was a big hole previously in the VVS planeset, being it was the most prolific lend-lease fighter they flew.
As well as the VVS B-25C:
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/ratkin/index.htm
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That does sound interesting, eh?
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I think Humble's idea has a lot of merit too, I could see something along those lines as well. :aok
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I prefer the correct terrain as well, I like the set up though, once a map is produced..
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As far as terrain goes, you localize any part of a map and it could look like rhine in AH does. Getting any map that has a similar shape of Russia and Germany and the Baltic area would be a 1/1000th replica, instead of a 1:1 (like say BOB04 is).
As long as the distances each mission flies are well laid out, the start fields, etc, the action will flow from there. As long as it has the right look (i.e. not sahara desert for Eastern Front) and the action will take care of it.
It's very easy to accept a different map as long as you view it as only a very localized battle map (NOT the entire continent).
IMO the micro-view look of the terrain goes better toward immersion and illusion than the vague out-of-scale outlines of the shorelines AROUND the map.
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The LA-5FN was introduced in the summer of 1943, as was the Yak-9T. The 1943 plane set is actually very good for an East Front setup, now that we also have the P-39, which was a big hole previously in the VVS planeset, being it was the most prolific lend-lease fighter they flew.
As well as the VVS B-25C:
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/ratkin/index.htm
I submitted a Russian B-25C and it is under review now.
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I submitted a Russian B-25C and it is under review now.
I am liking Humbles Idea more and more now.
:)
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If they do a Eastern Front scenario - they need to dial up the weather to the thick Fog/Rain/Snow settings they had in the AVA the other day. Really looked like Winter Time weather. :aok
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I think it's a good idea. I also believe both the P-39, and P-40E can hold up quite well in the scenario.
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I'd love to see any "mid-war" eastern front set up at somepoint. IMO we actually have the entire functional planeset for a brief period of the war. In May 1942 the soviets had few truely competative airframes, the lend-lease birds formed the bridge that carried the soviets thru a crucial period. Yes they had tons of other planes, but the cream of the soviet airforce was flying lend lease bombers and fighters for about 9 months maybe more...and many elite soviet fighter units flew the P-39 till well into 1944. Realistically the stuka should be involved somehow as well. Playing on the recent "fleet actions" I wonder if we could have a ground action that mirrored logistics issues on the front. In addition to trains and convoys it might be possible to have a "supply convoy" on each side were points are for Base supplies that reach a set destination or similiar. The fight was low in the east do to the nature of the air to ground war...
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Actually they flew the P-39N/Qs untill wars end (May 1945), thats why they are such an integral part of the VVS a/c inventory for SEA stuff.
"In addition to trains and convoys it might be possible to have a "supply convoy" on each side were points are for Base supplies that reach a set destination or similiar."
Possible...
One of the East Front FSOs I designed was "Summer Storm" which had a mid 1944 set, and wished the B-25C and P-39Q were available, so I see a few of these in the future at some point.