Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MoeRon on June 21, 2008, 08:29:39 PM
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Scott Kalitta died Saturday when his Funny Car crashed and burst into flames during the final round of qualifying for the Lucas Oil NHRA SuperNationals at Old Bridge Township Raceway Park. Witnesses told The Star-Ledger of Newark that Kalitta's Toyota Solara was traveling at an estimated speed of 300 mph when the crash occurred.
Sad news, i met him last year in Chicago, really nice guy. :salute
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Coming from someone who has two young ones, I hate hearing about fathers who died tragically while their kids are still so young. It's like a punch in the gut. :salute Kalitta and his family and friends. :pray my thoughts are with them.
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RIP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DziJdGwFQjU
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rip..thanks for posting that link. i truely hope his family and friends are able to deal with this. he is a great loss to the drag racing community.
now..did you notice what looked like a secondary explosion near the sandpit at the end of the track?
:salute :salute
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rip..thanks for posting that link. i truely hope his family and friends are able to deal with this. he is a great loss to the drag racing community.
now..did you notice what looked like a secondary explosion near the sandpit at the end of the track?
:salute :salute
I think the hit at the end of the course into the jersy barrier is most likely what killed him.
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That barrier was a ticking time bomb.....looks like it finally went off.
:(
<S> RIP Scott
Strip
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That barrier was a ticking time bomb.....looks like it finally went off.
:(
<S> RIP Scott
Strip
Back when i used to drive the shops super pro camaro, there was no barrier at the end, only sand pits. the barrier is kind of a stupid idea.
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(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/ripscott.jpg)
i put this in the other thread for him too, but what the hell......
:salute :salute
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they're tsalking about it on espn right now. they just showed the accident again. it looked like the secondary explosion happened just before he hit the fence at the end. :cry
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they're tsalking about it on espn right now. they just showed the accident again. it looked like the secondary explosion happened just before he hit the fence at the end. :cry
CAP1,
The "explosion" was the body coming off the car as it went flying (I assume) over the sand trap. The oil burning under the body is likely most of the flame your seeing. The nitromethane/alcohol mix wont burn at atmospheric pressure by itself. The problem with sand traps is the cars tend to skip right over it if they enter at too high of a speed. They are great under 80-100 mph but any faster and I tend to think of them as being a liability. Sad to say this but I am suprized this hasnt happened sooner. The blower explosions in the funny cars have become eerily common recently. They need more vent panels and better fire containment in my opinion. Even at the speeds I run (145mph) the safety factor is always high on mind. Safety doesnt stop at the wheels...
Strip
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CAP1,
The "explosion" was the body coming off the car as it went flying (I assume) over the sand trap. The oil burning under the body is likely most of the flame your seeing. The nitromethane/alcohol mix wont burn at atmospheric pressure by itself. The problem with sand traps is the cars tend to skip right over it if they enter at too high of a speed. They are great under 80-100 mph but any faster and I tend to think of them as being a liability. Sad to say this but I am suprized this hasnt happened sooner. The blower explosions in the funny cars have become eerily common recently. They need more vent panels and better fire containment in my opinion. Even at the speeds I run (145mph) the safety factor is always high on mind. Safety doesnt stop at the wheels...
Strip
you could be right. i thought i saw the body come off when the blower went. i think the explosions are getting more common because (i think) thye're running much much higher percentages of nitro in their mix for the last year or so?
i never went past about 135mph, and i never really was worried at that speed. the brakes stopped me perfectly fine, although we did have a chute on the car. it was an old chassis, built by danny smith in the early 70's, and it went straight as an arrow. i kinda miss driving it. but then again, although not as fast, i do fly now. in it's own way that is actually more of a rush, especially when you see the ground falling away below you.
anyway, i'm gona go get a drink.
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CAP1,
The blower broke the body in half but it stayed on the car. Keeping the fire on the driver and probly obstructing Scott's view. The percentage of nitro is on its way down actually from 100% just a few years ago to 85% percent now. Last week there was an explosion very similar to Kalitta's and more within the past few months. I think it has to do with the way they are applying the timing and power at the top end or hydraulic lock?
Strip
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Nitromethane and methanol WILL burn in the normal atmosphere, and do not need to be confined under pressure to burn. The percentage of nitromethane used is strictly regulated by NHRA, (and it wasn't 85% early this year when we last ran NHRA Top Fuel, it was 90% or so) you actually buy the stuff pre-mixed from VP Fuels, the only legal supplier of nitromethane for NHRA. A close friend of mine, Scott Palmer, has a Top Fuel car that he runs mostly on the IHRA circuit, but we have run NHRA.
The explosions are caused when you "put a hole out", meaning it doesn't fire and burn the fuel. The resulting load of fuel becomes uncompressable in the cylinder (but the cylinder has a static compression ratio of between 9.5:1 and 11:1, plus the bower makes about 100 pounds of boost) and it "hydraulics" the engine, literally using the pressure exerted to split it open. Each cylinder makes 1000HP. So if you put a couple out, there's still 6000HP available to try to compress the fuel and hydraulic the engine. Nitromethane burns the best and most reliably when you have the engine loaded real hard. So if the clutch is set soft, the tires spin, or the tires rattle, when it unloads the engine it will likely put a hole or two out. Whether or not it explodes depends on how lucky, or unlucky you are. If you get lucky, it doesn't hydraulic, if you don't get lucky, it explodes after it hydraulics.
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It's always sad news when a racer dies. RIP Scott.
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:salute Tragic accident that more than likely could have been lessened by a run out stretch of pavement at the end with some type of softer barrier at the final point. A couple of the drivers and pit guys made the same comments.
This is like the Dale Earnhart Sr. tragedy and hopefully they will react like NASCAR did and make some major changes in their safety programs that will only make the sport safer in the long run.
Prayers and best wishes to his family in this sad hour. :salute
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Wow...I've seen Scott, Doug, and Connie go down the track many, many times.
RIP Scott.
Really not a good year for Connie after losing a 747 and now losing a son.
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That barrier was a ticking time bomb.....looks like it finally went off.
:(
<S> RIP Scott
Strip
I have to agree, there was insufficient room for the car to slow before it hit an immovable object. In that kind of speed and especially when the driver is wrapped in flames there will be too little time to be able to slow before the end comes up. If there are buildings blocking the end of the strip it may be time to relocate the strip, especially at speeds like that.
RIP.
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RIP to Kalitta
it could be worse though the first reports I heard yesterday were that 1 cameraman was killed and 1 injured in that lift behind the berm.
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R.I.P. :salute
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Don't know who the guy is, but dam what a crash! :eek: :salute
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Most people do not know, but Scott's father, Connie Kalitta, owns Kalitta Flying Services, and they actually took over the contract to bring fallen soldiers home, at no cost increase to the government, because Connie felt like the fallen deserved better than they were getting.
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If there are buildings blocking the end of the strip it may be time to relocate the strip, especially at speeds like that.
RIP.
NOOOOO.......... if there are buildings at the end of the strip, they were most likely built there AFTER the strip was. if ANYthing needs to be moved, then it would be the buildings.
this train of thought never ceases to amaze me. """hey honey, lets move in here, it's cheaper because it's near a racetrack(or airport)."" then they move in, along with their neighbors, then they decide that it's too noisy. so what do they do? they make noise, and now the airport or track has to operate within strict noise guidlines. wrong answer. if you want to live somewhere quiet, then stay away from the noisy areas.
RIP
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There is a road at the end of the strip.
Google map for Old Bridge Township Raceway Park
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=Old%20Bridge%20Township%20Raceway%20Park&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl
RIP Scott.
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Most people do not know, but Scott's father, Connie Kalitta, owns Kalitta Flying Services, and they actually took over the contract to bring fallen soldiers home, at no cost increase to the government, because Connie felt like the fallen deserved better than they were getting.
I thought Scotty owned KFS. I listened to an interview with him on SpeedFreaks tonight where he talked about when he sold the airline and got back into racing.
There were some very funny stories told about Scotty by other racers on the show. He must have been a blast to hang with.
edit: After some quick reserarch it is still family owned. Doug Kalitta is listed as owner of Kalitta Air/Kalitta Charters.
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Gents,
After watching the video and hearing some first hand accounts the story gets worse. The car skipped over the sand trap and netting clearing even the wall. Scott then hit a boom scafold and careened into the forrest. It took them several minutes to find Scott after the wreck. There is a road 400-500 feet past the wall and the engine was found near it. He was found several dozen yards inside the treeline after that I wont go on....
Strip
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Take a look at the map. The road is ~50-60' from the wall.
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Gents,
After watching the video and hearing some first hand accounts the story gets worse. The car skipped over the sand trap and netting clearing even the wall. Scott then hit a boom scafold and careened into the forrest. It took them several minutes to find Scott after the wreck. There is a road 400-500 feet past the wall and the engine was found near it. He was found several dozen yards inside the treeline after that I wont go on....
Strip
well, although we all lost him, at least he died doing something he loved.
now he has perfect traction, and an engine that always fires on all eight cylinders.
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Yep you are absolutely right. The situation has changed but rather than have a place where an out of control car can stop without a major crash it's so so much better to just bury the drivers. Yep that's perfect sense there. :rolleyes:
NOOOOO.......... if there are buildings at the end of the strip, they were most likely built there AFTER the strip was. if ANYthing needs to be moved, then it would be the buildings.
this train of thought never ceases to amaze me. """hey honey, lets move in here, it's cheaper because it's near a racetrack(or airport)."" then they move in, along with their neighbors, then they decide that it's too noisy. so what do they do? they make noise, and now the airport or track has to operate within strict noise guidlines. wrong answer. if you want to live somewhere quiet, then stay away from the noisy areas.
RIP
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The drag racers here at work said there was a concrete poll about 3 feet tall...the car hit it..thats
when you see the fuel cell leave the car...also the explosion may have knocked him out and he did'nt have a chance to put on the brakes.
The one fella here at work said the chute will come out automaticlly when the body flys off the car. RIP :salute
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looked like the chutes didn't pop correctly because of the explosion, looked like they were on fire and tangled.
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Yes, the 'chute release will often be pulled by an explosion that blows the body off. The heat from the fire often fouls the 'chute. I doubt Scott was unconscious, the car went too straight. I'm sure he was partially blinded by the fire. But when Johnny West was knocked out at the same track in a funny car a decade or so ago, the car rode the guard rail all the way down, and he hit the same wall, just slower. Scott was steering the car and trying to stop it, I'm pretty sure from the video. They only have brakes on the rear wheels, and those are useless above 300MPH, the front tires are too small to have any real brakes. The back of the car bouncing is a sure sign of a desperate attempt to stop the car with just the brakes. A guy I crewed for did that in a dragster, because he didn't want to get out and pick up the 'chute. The car bounced 4' in the air before he got it back under control and stopped, and he was only going 170MPH. It takes me 5 minutes to pack a 'chute, it took me 2 hours to get the car safe to race, and a whole day to actually make all the repairs.
Most tracks like Englishtown are in a situation unlikely to be remedied. For years, unscrupulous real estate agents and developers have sold property around tracks to people because they can get the property cheap. Then they all go to the local government and get the tracks restricted all to Hell. They HOPE they can drive the track out. Half the time it works. Actually, all the track owners and racers should get together and start filing class action suits against the governments and the real estate companies. If the track can't win a lawsuit, it won't be changed, and it will never be safe to race those cars. If it can't meet the minimum standard, they need to move the race. That's not just what I think, that's what current AA/FC points leader Tim Wilkerson said Sunday. There needs to be a good minimum standard, and they need to stick to it. The moved the race at Columbus for the same basic reason, although the Norwalk track was better as well. Doug Kerhulas was nearly decapitated at Columbus due to the short shut down area, and he suffered permanent brain damage. I'm all for history and tradition, as well as keeping tracks open. But I'm tired of my friends dying because of substandard safety. The Kalittas helped us out a great deal with Scott Palmer's Top Fuel program, those guys are friends. Maybe I'm a little raw right now, but I lost another friend just over a week ago racing friend, but natural causes). Burying friends gets on my nerves.
By the way, as a guy who drives race cars, as well as who makes his living as a crew chief and engine/transmission/rear end builder, I'm sick of people saying "at least he died doing what he loved". That's a crock of crap. It's NO condolence or consolation AT ALL to friends OR family. A racer does NOT want to leave his death at the feet of his sport or hobby, nor does he want to take out his ride or anything else in the process of dying. I have no idea who came up with that lame oscar trite cliche, but it sucks, and it's a joke.
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Yes, the 'chute release will often be pulled by an explosion that blows the body off. The heat from the fire often fouls the 'chute. I doubt Scott was unconscious, the car went too straight. I'm sure he was partially blinded by the fire. But when Johnny West was knocked out at the same track in a funny car a decade or so ago, the car rode the guard rail all the way down, and he hit the same wall, just slower. Scott was steering the car and trying to stop it, I'm pretty sure from the video. They only have brakes on the rear wheels, and those are useless above 300MPH, the front tires are too small to have any real brakes. The back of the car bouncing is a sure sign of a desperate attempt to stop the car with just the brakes. A guy I crewed for did that in a dragster, because he didn't want to get out and pick up the 'chute. The car bounced 4' in the air before he got it back under control and stopped, and he was only going 170MPH. It takes me 5 minutes to pack a 'chute, it took me 2 hours to get the car safe to race, and a whole day to actually make all the repairs.
Most tracks like Englishtown are in a situation unlikely to be remedied. For years, unscrupulous real estate agents and developers have sold property around tracks to people because they can get the property cheap. Then they all go to the local government and get the tracks restricted all to Hell. They HOPE they can drive the track out. Half the time it works. Actually, all the track owners and racers should get together and start filing class action suits against the governments and the real estate companies. If the track can't win a lawsuit, it won't be changed, and it will never be safe to race those cars. If it can't meet the minimum standard, they need to move the race. That's not just what I think, that's what current AA/FC points leader Tim Wilkerson said Sunday. There needs to be a good minimum standard, and they need to stick to it. The moved the race at Columbus for the same basic reason, although the Norwalk track was better as well. Doug Kerhulas was nearly decapitated at Columbus due to the short shut down area, and he suffered permanent brain damage. I'm all for history and tradition, as well as keeping tracks open. But I'm tired of my friends dying because of substandard safety. The Kalittas helped us out a great deal with Scott Palmer's Top Fuel program, those guys are friends. Maybe I'm a little raw right now, but I lost another friend just over a week ago racing friend, but natural causes). Burying friends gets on my nerves.
By the way, as a guy who drives race cars, as well as who makes his living as a crew chief and engine/transmission/rear end builder, I'm sick of people saying "at least he died doing what he loved". That's a crock of crap. It's NO condolence or consolation AT ALL to friends OR family. A racer does NOT want to leave his death at the feet of his sport or hobby, nor does he want to take out his ride or anything else in the process of dying. I have no idea who came up with that lame oscar trite cliche, but it sucks, and it's a joke.
well said, but if anyone or anything is to be moved, then it should be the people that have moved in too close due to cheap prices. they knew what they were getting into. thgey try the same watermelon near airports. you should see the crap they're trying around south jersey regional airport. and they're buildig another development right under the pattern..where we are making our crosswind turn at 500 feet for runway26 on takeoff.....or our base turn for runway08 on landing. wanna guess who's gonna suffer from that?
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By the way, as a guy who drives race cars, as well as who makes his living as a crew chief and engine/transmission/rear end builder, I'm sick of people saying "at least he died doing what he loved". That's a crock of crap. It's NO condolence or consolation AT ALL to friends OR family. A racer does NOT want to leave his death at the feet of his sport or hobby, nor does he want to take out his ride or anything else in the process of dying. I have no idea who came up with that lame oscar trite cliche, but it sucks, and it's a joke.
As a fellow racer I agree.....it's not right. He would want people to continue on and celebrate the happier times. However, leaving the world like that isnt something anyone would choose if they had the choice.
Strip
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at least he died doing something he loved.
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CAP1, to use your own words "this train of thought never ceases to amaze me" :cry
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Yep you are absolutely right. The situation has changed but rather than have a place where an out of control car can stop without a major crash it's so so much better to just bury the drivers. Yep that's perfect sense there. :rolleyes:
you missed the point.......
the track was there first. since something has to move, it should not be the track, but rather the buildings that were placed there afterwards.
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CAP1, to use your own words "this train of thought never ceases to amaze me" :cry
ya, i know it's over used...sorry.......
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you missed the point.......
the track was there first. since something has to move, it should not be the track, but rather the buildings that were placed there afterwards.
Oh I got the point but this is not going to be fixed by a diatribe because it's not a "perfect world". You have to deal with reality and the reality of the situation is that there is not enough room on that track for those speeds any more, if there ever was to begin with. Now you can complain all you want and demand the other folks move their legally purchased property. The only thing that will accomplish is to bury more drivers. Make the choice.
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Oh I got the point but this is not going to be fixed by a diatribe because it's not a "perfect world". You have to deal with reality and the reality of the situation is that there is not enough room on that track for those speeds any more, if there ever was to begin with. Now you can complain all you want and demand the other folks move their legally purchased property. The only thing that will accomplish is to bury more drivers. Make the choice.
in all honesty, you're most liekly right about the speeds........i think they never expected to see a car go that fast wehen the track was built.
and, yes, i probably am being somewhat unreasonable with the people moving in nearby thing too. i got to deal with that when i was racing at atco, back in the 80's. got past it, and then started flying, and saw the same exact bs around airports. people complain about the noise a cessna makes, when their briggs and strattons are actually louder. o well.......i'd rather not see more drivers buried.......so really whatever it takes for the sport to remain popular and safe for these great drivers
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