Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: moot on June 23, 2008, 11:07:18 PM
-
This is a wish for better gameplay in the DA lake. For the same switch from cesspool sort of gameplay that made the MAs switch to less dense populations. I don't have any truly feasible solutions, but offer to the public a place to suggest any idea that might work...
As it is, there's mostly the exact same chicken dynamics at play as in the MA, where hordes of incapable players make zero effort to start a real fight and keep it balanced, but rather fear for their pixel lives and climb and gravitate to outnumbering friendlies for disproportionate advantages. This reduces the actual AIR COMBAT to minimal amounts, mostly down to single pass picks and negligible actual maneuvering for kills.
My suggestion would be to have some sort of balancing system where you had 1 field for each country at each of a number of lakes, where you couldn't roll from a lake field if that country already had an even number of players spawned from it and furballing. This would require additional coding, so as far as I know it's an unfeasible solution.
-
Moot,
I have good fights in there all the time when the numbers are below 40 players. Perhaps its because I fly a 51 and TnB with everything but hurricane/zero. I stay away from the hordes and rarely go above 10k unless needed. Seems like there are 4-5 guys I can spot in a group of cons and anyone of them is a good fight.
If its a 1v1...to the deck til death.
When the numbers get above 50 we need a larger area with 2 bases per side. Its easier to spread out and harder to vulch one country. I say the lower the ENY the less ammo you get! Give them a reason to stop flying Tempests. Right now I bet half the people fly temps to shoot other temps. I get similar crap for flying a 51 (even the B which I always fly) about being a pick tard. Truth be told I hardly ever pick or bnz (only above hordes). Its a monkey see monkey want to shoot deal right now.
Strip
-
Exactly.. Gotta force the players to keep the gameplay quality to a minimum because they can't do it themselves, just like in the single MA a few years ago.
Maybe no radar, but then you'd have trouble finding a fight in the lake when there's only a few players there. No radar once the lake has more than x players would work (since you wouldn't need it to quickly find a fight), but that's more coading..
-
This is a wish for better gameplay in the DA lake. For the same switch from cesspool sort of gameplay that made the MAs switch to less dense populations. I don't have any truly feasible solutions, but offer to the public a place to suggest any idea that might work...
As it is, there's mostly the exact same chicken dynamics at play as in the MA, where hordes of incapable players make zero effort to start a real fight and keep it balanced, but rather fear for their pixel lives and climb and gravitate to outnumbering friendlies for disproportionate advantages. This reduces the actual AIR COMBAT to minimal amounts, mostly down to single pass picks and negligible actual maneuvering for kills.
My suggestion would be to have some sort of balancing system where you had 1 field for each country at each of a number of lakes, where you couldn't roll from a lake field if that country already had an even number of players spawned from it and furballing. This would require additional coding, so as far as I know it's an unfeasible solution.
Disable 190s and Tempests in DA Furballing lake? :aok
-
Furball lake is worse than the MA, at this point.
Might be beyond a fix.
-
Furball lake is worse than the MA, at this point.
Might be beyond a fix.
Yeah, I have to agree. Some squadron that pollutes the DA was in the furball area vulching and talking crap about "how uber" they were because they wouldn't let anyone take off. It's funny that a lot go there to 'furball' and do everything but furball.
ack-ack
-
I just might innocently point out that there are no scores in DA, so according to the "remove scores from game!" proponents that shouldn't even happen :devil
-
I just might innocently point out that there are no scores in DA...
Doesnt stop the usual band of dweebtards from performing the old 1-2-3 combo.
1.) Land kills. In Dueling Arena.
2.) Brag about landing kills. In Dueling Arena.
3.) Refuse all subsequent duel challenges. In Dueling Arena.
-
Moot,
I have no problems landing kills in the DA. As long as its not a dweeb plane I enjoy seeing kill messages. So and so landed 4 kills in a 109G2 (or eny +15) is nice to see knowing that every other plane is ENY 5. Its the kills landed in temps and Spit 16's that piss me off!
Strip
-
Sure.. I didn't say anything about landing and don't have anything against it.. That's Saurkrautkar you're replying to hehe :D
But like AKAK said, the lake in the DA is now arguably worse than the MA.
-
Sure.. I didn't say anything about landing and don't have anything against it.. That's Saurkrautkar you're replying to hehe :D
But like AKAK said, the lake in the DA is now arguably worse than the MA.
Have mods on and when they see this, boot em out?
If somebody is trying to CAP a base, they are automatically towered out?
I'm still going with disable 190s and Tempests. (Maybe Jugs)
-
Moot,
Make ack ten times as effective as the MA. Sure you might get ack runners but you shouldnt be that close anyway!
Strip
-
Sure.. I didn't say anything about landing and don't have anything against it.. That's Saurkrautkar you're replying to hehe :D
Thats right.
*I* have something against it. And since my opinion counts, whoopeeit, you'll stop this nonsense and get back to proper grabassing, immediately! :D
-
Yep... But we still need a solution for the dweebery over the lake itself. Having mods on is not feasible, I think. Nowhere near enough trust worthy volunteers (no way would HTC pay anyone for this! :)), so the alternative would have to be coaded.. I don't think 190s and tempests, or jugs or any plane, would solve the problem. The cap solution would be really complex to coad.
No dar when more than x people are in the air over the lake would work, or no dar at all, or a second DA (much less feasible and worth the expense, I think) are still better alternatives.. imo.Thats right.
*I* have something against it. And since my opinion counts, whoopeeit, you'll stop this nonsense and get back to proper grabassing, immediately! :D
QUAH!
-
Furball lake is worse than the MA, at this point.
Might be beyond a fix.
Agreed.
-
looks like some people enjoy this mess, the good side is that they don't come to pollute the MA any more.
-
This is a wish for better gameplay in the DA lake.
Ya know moot ... you can wish in one hand and crap in the other, and I'll bet you can tell which one will come true first.
DA Furball Lake has replaced the FFA from the now defunct Free 8 player games.
When Furball Lake first opened up, you could have 8-10 guys per team, and when you engaged someone, the others would gladly hang above and watch or start their own 1 v 1 or at times 2 v 2.
As you well have experienced and seen, Furball Lake is nothing more than, once engaged, an invite for all those who have been sitting up on their perch in their mega-hotrods to all swoop down, in unison, and attack one of the "engaged".
The notion of actual "mono y mono" Air-to-Air combat has given way to the "pick and run" consortium.
-
Ya know moot ... you can wish in one hand and crap in the other, and I'll bet you can tell which one will come true first.
DA Furball Lake has replaced the FFA from the now defunct Free 8 player games.
When Furball Lake first opened up, you could have 8-10 guys per team, and when you engaged someone, the others would gladly hang above and watch or start their own 1 v 1 or at times 2 v 2.
As you well have experienced and seen, Furball Lake is nothing more than, once engaged, an invite for all those who have been sitting up on their perch in their mega-hotrods to all swoop down, in unison, and attack one of the "engaged".
The notion of actual "mono y mono" Air-to-Air combat has given way to the "pick and run" consortium.
Disable 190s and Tempests in Furball lake!! If somebody tries to CAP a base, or bomb it, they are auto-matically towered out, or ack will get them...
I've seen dweebs in DA picking in Furball lake and when somebody says something about it, they say "I caahn git killz tu squeek!!"
-
Fixes
1. Increase AAA lethality to ludicrous lvl. I'm talking one .50 cal ping and you're missing vital parts.
2. Da staff. We have MA mods, AVA staff, and scenario staff.
Thats all thats needed.
If your flying in furball lake your going to have pickers/alt monkeys/ho tard...ect...ect...ect. It's the nature of the beast.
What is necessary in there is a good ole SAPP type event. Then the 2 mini horde squads (who usually are on the same side) can get a taste of what being horded is like.
-
I'm still going with disable 190s and Tempests. (Maybe Jugs)
Why disable a plane? What if people want to duel in those planes? The planes aren't the problem, it's the players that play like this that are the problem. By removing the Butcher Bird, Tempest and even the Jug, do you really think this will stop the lame behavior? It won't, these twits will just hop into another plane and repeat their lame behavior. Then some more planes are disabled and again, same thing happens. Soon, you'll be left with an arena without any planes and a crap load of lame players running around in GVs.
ack-ack
-
He's asking for the Tempest to be disabled at all bases surrounding furball lake, and only having then be enabled at the three 1v1 areas furthest from furball lake on the left side
-
He's asking for the Tempest to be disabled at all bases surrounding furball lake, and only having then be enabled at the three 1v1 areas furthest from furball lake on the left side
Doesn't change the fact that removing the Tempest from the *cough* Furball Lake area isn't going to stop anything at all. My argument is still quite valid, what if someone wants to fight in a Tempest? They should have all the right to be able to do so from any field in the DA. Restricting or limiting the planeset is definitely not the answer.
ack-ack
-
Moot, with all due respect sir, Gameplay, and DA is almost a contradiction in terms.
In short, you want gameplay, go to the arenas. Leave the ones who can't cope with the mains to play their little alt monkey games in the DA.
-
The last time we all complained about idiotic behavior in the DA (around the start of a summer, "coincidentally"), we ended up getting killshooter turned on... Not exactly a desirable outcome.
Just sayin'... :noid
-
The last time we all complained about idiotic behavior in the DA (around the start of a summer, "coincidentally"), we ended up getting killshooter turned on... Not exactly a desirable outcome.
Just sayin'... :noid
Killshooter was in response to a different problem in the DA.
ack-ack
-
Fixes
1. Increase AAA lethality to ludicrous lvl. I'm talking one .50 cal ping and you're missing vital parts.
2. Da staff. We have MA mods, AVA staff, and scenario staff.
Thats all thats needed.
If your flying in furball lake your going to have pickers/alt monkeys/ho tard...ect...ect...ect. It's the nature of the beast.
What is necessary in there is a good ole SAPP type event. Then the 2 mini horde squads (who usually are on the same side) can get a taste of what being horded is like.
i give Bronk two thumbs up and a hand! :aok :aok
-
Killshooter was in response to a different problem in the DA.
ack-ack
True, but all I'm saying is "be careful what you wish for." As it stands, the DA's an awful lot like the MA, with the big exception being, it doesn't take a 10 minute climb to roll your eyes :D Works for me.
-
if i start flying a new plane and want to test its limits or how it works in certain combat situations i go to the DA. That's what makes the DA good. If only some of the players would change their ways in their it would be even better
-
All I can say is that is extremely gratifying to watch all the Temps and Spits spinning to the ground under the guns of my F4F-4, or the occasional A6M2. Even more satisfying when I can actually get away to land those kills.....
-
You don't have to go to the DA ya know.
I don't go to the DA unless I'm changing view/setup on planes. Unless I'm answering a DA challenge from the MA; Or going to Practice acm with squadies. That's all it's really good for anyhow.
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:SJFKTcO1pGhkAM:http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/danger_falling.png)
-
Moot, with all due respect sir, Gameplay, and DA is almost a contradiction in terms.
In short, you want gameplay, go to the arenas. Leave the ones who can't cope with the mains to play their little alt monkey games in the DA.
With all due respect I'll disagree. Gameplay happens everywhere in the game, but I do see what you mean and disagree: IMO it's the other way around. There's no base to capture, no score, no war to win in the DA. You have all the incentives to simply furball and none to fly timidly, or horde, or otherwise reduce the quality of the furball lake's gameplay for the sake of.... Well like I said there's no reason for it.
I'm not the only one to think so, and others who've said it aren't all players that'd usualy agree with me.. A few months back a squaddie that hadn't played the game in years (he's back in the middle east now) went into the DA and it was almost comical the way he (unassumingly, frankly) was telling/asking others over range and open channel why they were ganging - this is the DA, no use avoiding the fights. He was dumbfounded for 15min or so.
This is the same trend that's been going in the MAs, it's not related to the DA, and so whether it's just because AH is now digging into a customer base that's much less purist and so much more casual and has no care for the quality of the actual AIR COMBAT and would rather follow the path of least resistance (horde, timidity etc) to get their kills (the whole point of the game, but cheapened to the max), it doesn't change the fact that these newcomers are (like i said purposedly or not) stinking the quality of gameplay.
If balancing was good for the MAs, it's certainly good for a smaller and less populated area that's meant for pure dogfighting.
Whether the dotdar gets slowed way down over the lake, or (maybe) disappears altogether when there's no need for it (high enough air density), etc.. It'll improve the quality of gameplay in that area of the map at no expense of any other part of the game... A net benefit. Except for the coading headache :P It's worth it, though.
You don't have to go to the DA ya know.
You're missing the point..
-
Why disable a plane? What if people want to duel in those planes? The planes aren't the problem, it's the players that play like this that are the problem. By removing the Butcher Bird, Tempest and even the Jug, do you really think this will stop the lame behavior? It won't, these twits will just hop into another plane and repeat their lame behavior. Then some more planes are disabled and again, same thing happens. Soon, you'll be left with an arena without any planes and a crap load of lame players running around in GVs.
ack-ack
Disable them in the furball lake. If somebody wants to take a Tempest from an adjoining base, let them do it.
-
There was a guy (cant recall the name) back in H2H (way back in 2000 I think) that'd knife fight in his tempest against everything else, including spits and zekes, etc. Just like I do with the 152.
It's not the Tempests, it's the players in them and how they use it.
-
wow, you gotta teach me some of that M00t :O :O
-
Well I'll agree that the customer base is changing moot. A few years back in the summer we'd get 16 - 17 yr olds who got into avaiation. They were bright, hard working, willing to do anything to learn and for the most part easy to get along with.
Now I get 7-11 yr olds with atttitudes.
They don't know what half the words mean and they don't care.
They want what they want and they want it now and if they don't get it they throw a hissy fit.
After all, it always works on mom. And when it doesn't work here they have no clue what to do.
They are not willing to work, they don't listen, they have zero respect for anything or anyone.
The fact remains, that the Dueling arena should not have gameplay.
It should have dueling. 1 on 1 prearranged, rules agreed to before hand duels.
Moot I agree with you that those who do hang out at the lake should be ready to fight coalt co_E at the drop of a hat.
I'll admit that I'm not in the DA a lot these days. But from what i've seen, it seems to attract those not capable of learning
to fight in the mains. With some notable exceptions of course.
Generation X is having a big impact on the entire gaming world, and its having one here also.
It used to be guys like you and me were here for the fight. Win, lose, or draw it was all good.
There was respect on both sides. And if you lost you went back to work and figured out what you did wrong.
Now all they seem to care about is winning, not the fight, or how, just climb to 20k so no one can get above you.
Dive in with the biggest baddest plane you can fly and shoot the other guy down when he's busy chasing someone else.
There is no respect, there is no love for the fight. There is only win and "own" the other guy or lose. In which case you cheated.
You can NOT legislate morals, a love for the game, for all things aviation, for combat in one of its purist forms.
It either exists, or it does not, if it does not exist it must be taught. Period.
So if your seeing a lack or a problem go to work moot. Show them the better way, the right way.
-
Wonder if this would work...Being able to switch from seeing type of plane to name of pilot in the enemy plane?
-
Disable them in the furball lake. If somebody wants to take a Tempest from an adjoining base, let them do it.
Disabling a plane is not going to fix the problem. If someone is intent on being a dweeb, they'll just find another plane to carry on in.
ack-ack
-
"Idiotic" and "Furball Lake", isn't that redundant? :D
-
"Idiotic" and "Furball Lake", isn't that redundant? :D
Not really. It's a good tool. I for example have average SA. So it's a good place to work on it. You have the high speed pickers mixed in with the hurri/a6m crowd.
-
Moot,
I have good fights in there all the time when the numbers are below 40 players. Perhaps its because I fly a 51 and TnB with everything but hurricane/zero. I stay away from the hordes and rarely go above 10k unless needed. Seems like there are 4-5 guys I can spot in a group of cons and anyone of them is a good fight.
If its a 1v1...to the deck til death.
When the numbers get above 50 we need a larger area with 2 bases per side. Its easier to spread out and harder to vulch one country. I say the lower the ENY the less ammo you get! Give them a reason to stop flying Tempests. Right now I bet half the people fly temps to shoot other temps. I get similar crap for flying a 51 (even the B which I always fly) about being a pick tard. Truth be told I hardly ever pick or bnz (only above hordes). Its a monkey see monkey want to shoot deal right now.
Strip
Thats exactly right strip, you and me have had some good fight in DA recently and I have learned alot.
Strip I know exactly what your talking about. I remember a guy the other day calling you a BNZ rtard and you were fighting at 2k with full flaps. Obviouslly that soomeone doesnt know what BNZ is. But recently I have had some good fights in the furball area.
BTW: who cares about the people diving in from 13k? The stupid people obviouslly dont know what compression is :devil Its funny to watch there 900mph temps go flying into the water without any wings. :rofl
-
Seems to me that expecting "furball lake" to be "duel like" is wish full thinking.
Perhaps some reworking of the DA map is in order....
(http://ltarsoup.com/moot1.JPG)
There fixed.
<S>
-
So "purists" don't get a lake because? Who said the furball lake we have now should be duel like, and what's "duel like" exactly?
-
Got another little idea to "fix" the furball lake.
In addition to what I already stated.
1. Drop fields so sea lvl. No more fighting at the edge of your field so you can instant reup with smash.
2. Puffy ack at bases. Along with increased lethality this might encourage the altmonkey/pickers to...come on down.
-
Well I'll agree that the customer base is changing moot. A few years back in the summer we'd get 16 - 17 yr olds who got into avaiation. They were bright, hard working, willing to do anything to learn and for the most part easy to get along with.
I dont know about you, but I've seen 7-11 year olds who act more mature than 16 and 17 year olds. (Last time I recalled, CMustard was 16) And I THINK (so dont start getting mad at me) that AKJrDogg is 12 or 13, I remember him telling me, and belive it or not, Zoozoo/Zooscrew isn't very immature compared to alot of players on this game.
-
Got another little idea to "fix" the furball lake.
In addition to what I already stated.
1. Drop fields so sea lvl. No more fighting at the edge of your field so you can instant reup with smash.
2. Puffy ack at bases. Along with increased lethality this might encourage the altmonkey/pickers to...come on down.
again. Bronk gets two thumbs up from me :aok :aok
-
So "purists" don't get a lake because?
I'm sure HT can put a lake in the purist area.
what's "duel like" exactly?
You know..... 1 on 1, co alt, co e, cold merge.
<S>
-
I dont know about you, but I've seen 7-11 year olds who act more mature than 16 and 17 year olds. (Last time I recalled, CMustard was 16) And I THINK (so dont start getting mad at me) that AKJrDogg is 12 or 13, I remember him telling me, and belive it or not, Zoozoo/Zooscrew isn't very immature compared to alot of players on this game.
Finnaly its about time....................
-
Finnaly its about time....................
There are plenty of examples of younger kids who actually are Mature.
-
Exactly.. Gotta force the players to keep the gameplay quality to a minimum because they can't do it themselves, just like in the single MA a few years ago.
Maybe no radar, but then you'd have trouble finding a fight in the lake when there's only a few players there. No radar once the lake has more than x players would work (since you wouldn't need it to quickly find a fight), but that's more coading..
ORRRRR we can make it like CoD:4
3 kill streak!! 'UAV standing by' then you get 30 seconds of radar d:
5 kill streak 'Airstrike standing by' enjoy watching the jets blast overhead in a WWII flight sim d:
7 kill streak 'Helicopter support standing by' w00w00 go helo's!!
sorry, had to do it...
Now, my solution is simple...
Make it so if you don't have x amount of hours logged in Training arena as AIRBORNE (eh, make it 1.5) and x amount of hours MA as airborne (make it 2-3) you can't get into the DA... (really REALLY not hard to get)
or maybe even make the DA like a 'master guild' so to speak, where you can only get in if you have say 30+ hours logged in the MA and 25+ in the TA
Cause imho, alot of the noobs that pick up a tempy (which I do on occasion when it gets too noob for my p38J, only BnZ'n the BnZ'r's or other tempy's) are inexperianced noobs who play like their score depends on it...which, I find hysterical as score doesn't mean squat in the DA...
-
Now, my solution is simple...
Make it so if you don't have x amount of hours logged in Training arena as AIRBORNE (eh, make it 1.5) and x amount of hours MA as airborne (make it 2-3) you can't get into the DA... (really REALLY not hard to get)
or maybe even make the DA like a 'master guild' so to speak, where you can only get in if you have say 30+ hours logged in the MA and 25+ in the TA
Cause imho, alot of the noobs that pick up a tempy (which I do on occasion when it gets too noob for my p38J, only BnZ'n the BnZ'r's or other tempy's) are inexperianced noobs who play like their score depends on it...which, I find hysterical as score doesn't mean squat in the DA...
And alienate the newer guys/gals who want to use the DA to improve?
Btw... Caecina = Vudak, for Skuzzy, since I know how he frowns on two accounts posting in the same thread.
-
Got another little idea to "fix" the furball lake.
In addition to what I already stated.
1. Drop fields so sea lvl. No more fighting at the edge of your field so you can instant reup with smash.
2. Puffy ack at bases. Along with increased lethality this might encourage the altmonkey/pickers to...come on down.
Not a bad idea :aok
Or don't fly there.
-
Well for starters I'd suggest you not hold Cmustard up as any kind of good example.
He's an ok stick with a big ego and a dirty mouth, and he'd be the first to agree with me.
Zoozoo can act quite mature at times I'll agree, and I've never had a problem with akjrdogg. But then I consider him in the exceptional class, along with sondog and a few others.
Don't get me wrong, I've dealt with teenagers for years, and I have no bias against them.
One of my best friends online was Wilbuz, we meet when he was 13, and flew together for years.
But then he didn't ACT like a 13yr old.
I dont know about you, but I've seen 7-11 year olds who act more mature than 16 and 17 year olds. (Last time I recalled, CMustard was 16) And I THINK (so dont start getting mad at me) that AKJrDogg is 12 or 13, I remember him telling me, and belive it or not, Zoozoo/Zooscrew isn't very immature compared to alot of players on this game.
-
i thought i was one of your best friends Ghosth :cry
-
yeah thats why the only time i go to the DA is to duel some tard talkin crap on 200 channell