Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CavemanJ on January 24, 2001, 01:32:00 PM
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From the 1.05 readme:
Made changes to the automatic AA. They are less precise with their fire.
I'm just wondering where the precision was reduced. The dispersion is plainly evident, but now every 3rd round from each gun is a golden BB that blows you right back to the tower or rips off an entire wing. No in between, just instant death.
You can drive a ground vehicle up to a field and stop 800yds short of the base perimeter and sit there for 5minutes w/o taking a single hit from the acks, but if you fly an aircraft 800yds from the base perimeter (speed dinnae matter) yer toast.
When going on an attack run I've died to the ack twice as many times as I've been killed by a player for the opposition. Been part of a 4ship JABO flight, we all dive in together and we all die together on the first pass. Once upon a time the fastest way to totally shut down a field was to send in a flight of JABOs. Now the JABOs must wait on the level bombers to clear out the ack before the JABOs can go to work, which gives the enemy even more time to build resistance at the contested field.
Even attacking an ammo factory, which only has 1 88mm, 1 40mm, and 2 smaller caliber guns has become impossible. You might get 2 of the guns on your first pass but you aren't going to survive it, even if you go in at 500mph and slip/roll on your egress.
IMO there's not much fun left in the JABO role. Pre-1.05 the acks were lethal, but if you were careful you could survive.
And aren't these guns basically open pit with the crews exposed to fire? Shouldna even a SpitV using .303s be able to knock one out verra quickly (1 decent pass)? These things are remeniscient of the ostdweebs (which STILL need to have thier damage model fixed) in that I've made solid passes on guns and walked a solid carpet of hit sprites over them only for them to remain standing, stick thier tounge out at me, and then blow me to hell.
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Yup, I have noticed this aswell, they are not very accurate but 1 ping usually causes catastrophic damage. Your VERY lucky to get hit once and have a chance of getting back to the carrier/base
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I've seen this when blasting HQ's offline a LOT. Took a Typhoon, loaded rockets, and went out to play. I dove in at 440mph, WEP making the engine scream in my ears. I nailed one tower ack with the 20 mils, got an 88 with a rocket, then WHACK! I'm sitting in the tower. I tried again, and again on my first pass I got nailed. This is nuts. I de-acked a port with a Typhoon and only died once from hitting the VH. I didn't pull up hard enough on my pass and rammed it. I can de-ack a port with a Typhoon and not get hit, yet I try de-acking an HQ using the same method and I die every time.
"You got some splainin' ta do Lucy!"
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"During the Battle of Britain the question 'fighter or fighter-bomber?'
had been decided once and for all: The fighter can only be used as a bomb carrier
with lasting effect when sufficient air superiority has been won." Adolph Galland
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/custom1.jpg)
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Since the change, my jabo (which stinks anyway) got better. I'm now able to take out both acks at a V-base with my 109f with gonds. Wasn't able to do that b4. Ack is still deadly, just seems it takes them slightly longer to home in. Naval ack is another story..
Eagler
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Yeah, field ack seems a bit more lethal than it used to be (don't know if this is more or less real or just my imagination).
The new ack fire dispersment has made it tougher to get through a dive without sustaining a hit (from my perspective), and despite this, I like it better. In previous versions I could take out all the ack at a medium field single handed with my Niki, generally not taking any hits at all...that just doesn't seem right.
Would any WWII pilot in his right mind dive to fire on live AAA?
SOB
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Since the change, my jabo (which stinks anyway) got better. I'm now able to take out both acks at a V-base with my 109f with gonds. Wasn't able to do that b4. Ack is still deadly, just seems it takes them slightly longer to home in. Naval ack is another story..
Eagler
They have a laser lock on the closest bandit inside thier range, just like they always do. But you can't beat them any more. Pre-1.05 it took knowhow and skill to survive in the ack, post-1.05 entering the ack evnelope = death, no ifs, ands, or buts. Hell HiTech himself (so I was told at the time it happened) drove an M3 onto a base with all the acks up, let the troops out, and captured the field (I believe it was A1). I've driven vehicles onto bases with live ack and not been hit for 5minutes, though I've never captured a base that way.
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Those ack pops were done by myself without anyone else around so both ack were trying to home in on me. Had to take them out one at a time but can do now. Anymore than two though and they seem to get the lock pretty quick...
Eagler
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I agree. Ack is way more dangerous than in 1.04.
In fact I think that the best Ack we have had so far was the one in 1.02, before the multiple calibres of AA weapons weer introduced It was not easy to go into the ack bubble without being touched, but, both it was way easier than now, and a couple of AA pings then werent mortal either.
Right now is short of suicidal to get into the ack bubble.
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Its funny. You can fly straight towards a ack and they don't hit a thing as they seem to hit everywhere else than where they aim, you then break off and THEN they hit you.
Best way to de-ack a small field is two straigt runs N-S.
PS: Is the ROF lowered for the ack (and damage increased) or have they simply been given less tracers than before?
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 01-24-2001).]
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I've been flying a lot with CJ during the last few days and I also came to this conclusion. Jabo attacks are simply suicide.
Earlier today we did a jabo raid on A16 with five 190s, we all dove in towards the field from about 16k. Two planes survived the first pass, but they were shot down in the next few moments as well.
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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WOW
My experience is completly opposite, ack killing is extremly easy, I deacked a half a field with the seafires 303 guns, and I can now regulary kill all the acks in cannon type plane within a minute, it seems that they are far less effective than before you can even fly straight at them and they dont hit. Ever wonder why the ack never seems to be up anymore???? Dont u guys rememnber when it used to be a big job to deack a field, or when the ack would be up for more than 2 minutes after an attack started???
Now its too damn easy and actually quite imballancing to the game when u consider that CVs have so much more accurate ack (to say nothing of the 5inch fire) which cant be killed at all.
thanks GRUNHERZ
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I have been able to kill several acks on a field and always do so by making passes so that I target the outside most ack on each run (Make imaginary perimeter around the acks)
Anyway, I have also noticed that I can dive in between 300-400 (True airspeed) mph and fire, kill an ack and then, I pull max Gs Up and Away from the other acks. It is when I am in the MAX G state, on the virge of blackout, that the acks seem to hit. This I think would be the most difficult hit because I would be flying ACROSS their line of site at speeds of at least 300 MPH True.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of those guns HAND CRANKED in both rotation and elevation? I see no way that a gun crew would be able to crank that fast as to track my plane that is changing both altitude and direction.
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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
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I'm beginning to think that posting your system specs and type of web connection might help narrow down these variations in experiences. I wonder if there is a common link. In general I think the ack is a little better than the last version. I find it livable. I've been having a strange one happen. I'll be flying with one or two people into a base. They are leading and coalt normally. They fly in and the ack opens up on me. It seems to happen a lot. I can't tell for sure. Could just be the voices in my head again telling me your all against me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Field ack has sure been zapping the hell out of me lately.
Yeager
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I am happy with field ack like they are now. They are pretty daedly, but only if you do things wrong. And maybe it's only my perception, but It's totally different to have a high angle approach than a low one.
It's not trivial to deack a field with a fighter, but It can be done. And ack will kill you if you, for example, go in for the ack and get too close, or choose a low altitude 0 degrees offset approach. On the egress, if I am fast enough, and make loose scissors and rolls, I get no pings consistently.
As Eagler says, Naval is ahother story...
Cheers,
Pepe
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Originally posted by Pepino:
I am happy with field ack like they are now. They are pretty daedly, but only if you do things wrong. And maybe it's only my perception, but It's totally different to have a high angle approach than a low one.
It's not trivial to deack a field with a fighter, but It can be done. And ack will kill you if you, for example, go in for the ack and get too close, or choose a low altitude 0 degrees offset approach. On the egress, if I am fast enough, and make loose scissors and rolls, I get no pings consistently.
As Eagler says, Naval is ahother story...
Cheers,
Pepe
I've tried every kind of egress you can think of. low g rolls, high g pulls into roll, medium g scissoring, even negative g rolls and breaks. Dead, every time.
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Cave, I can de-ack a field with 2 buddies in tiffies or CHOGS. True, one ping and you die but I dont see a "golden bb" being laser guided like last version.
Ironically, I find that in a 45 degree dive into an ack, all you have to do is bob the plane up and down and the ack wont hit you. I can even fly over the ack and fly away from it doing the same thing and most of the times it wont hit me.
I'll film it for ya. Its hilarious.
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If Cave believes the acks are doing something funny, I believe him..he's the king of field captures since beta...I too have noticed the 'turn, jinx and die' hardness of acks.
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I've also tried every type of egress to no avail. In fact the best one seemed to be -fly straight, dont move until out of range. It seems to me that since 1.05, AH is much more sensative to the quality of your internet connection than it used to be.
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One more thing....correct me if im wrong, but I belive the real way of killing ack was to come in low and fast- below the treeline, then pop over the trees- strafe - then get low again before they could line up on you. My grandpa was in the artillery and this is how he described the Germans doing it.
Also, now it seems that any kind of evasive maneuver against ack or flak actually increases your chance of getting hit.
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Cave,
Hmmm....I was deacking yesterday & wednesday nite with a La5. I found it pretty safe. IIRC, only a couple of ping doing this for 1 and a half hours, aprox. No damage. The only real threat are the 88's. Since they are not present in Small airfileds, that's my choice unless medium & large airfields have 88's destroyed.
I approach field with 10k. I make a 90 deg. dive from the center of the field to the outside, aiming to destroy the exerior acks first. I open up about 3k/2k, break about 1k. By the time I break, I am doing aprox 500kts. TAS, and I am in ack range for less than 5 seconds. When I am in ack range I feel safer not climbing but just extending. Rolls do the egress trick.
This way I avoid ack pings consistently.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Originally posted by Tac:
Cave, I can de-ack a field with 2 buddies in tiffies or CHOGS. True, one ping and you die but I dont see a "golden bb" being laser guided like last version.
Ironically, I find that in a 45 degree dive into an ack, all you have to do is bob the plane up and down and the ack wont hit you. I can even fly over the ack and fly away from it doing the same thing and most of the times it wont hit me.
I'll film it for ya. Its hilarious.
Myself and 3 other experienced operators, in -1Cs, attacked a small field. This was one of the flights I was referring to in my original post. IIRC we got the VH and 4 of the guns, but that first pass ended with all of us dead. When I say experienced I'm talking guys who can lay an egg or rocket exactly where they want it 90% of the time and, in 1.04, could take down a small field with just 2 of them working on it.
Pepino - FYI only large fields and ports have 88mm guns. The largest caliber on small and medium fields is 40mm.
Dern I've tried an NOE ingress, popup 1/2-1mile from base (to get a proper strafing attitude), fast pass getting 1-3 guns and die on egrees, no matter what type of evasives are used. The only exceptions are if there are only 1-2 guns, like Vbases. One pass on a Vbase and both guns are down.
Rip thx for the vote of confidence (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by CavemanJ (edited 01-26-2001).]
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Well, I agree for the Ack lethality (1 ping Kills, usualy). but I still am capable of taking them out (Not alone, usualy we do this on a 2 man team.) If I go in "light" and aim for the acks, I "usualy" succeed and come out alive. However, whenever I dive with Eggs (on the FH for example) and that the ack is live, I usualy won't make it...
<S!>
Saw
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Ugh
ack was fine as it was could be dealt with if you used some skill, and you could survive a couple of hits (unless you fly a LW plane, then your engine is the first to go (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
Wonder why they changed it?
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://us.st5.yimg.com/store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1619_4916770)
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch
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Cave,
I am not questioing your sills in any way. I think you are better pilot than me.
The only thing I do in other way in deacking is that I rarely try to take more than one ack per pass. When I do, I usually finish too low, and have a too long exposure to vertical fire (no deflection). I try to stay over 1k at any time.
Cheers,
Pepe
Just my 0.02.
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I just dont get it guys, before 105 ack I wasnt ever able to dack a field all by myself, but on the first day of 105, bout 5 minutes after the MA opened SUPERFLY and I took off a CV to attack A40 in chogs. I had all the ack down at this filed in 1 minute- and have pretty much the same experiences every time I tried again. The only time it realy ever killed me during a dedicated deacking run was when I had 2 1000lb bombs slung under me and flew real slow in a wide circle around the field- and even then it took the stupid guns 5 or 10 seconds of me flying in this straight line to hit me. Im just really surprised by these ack horror stories. Really just think how often you actually even see ack being up in 105 as compared to before, its quite obvious that they are an easier thing to kill/down than before.
thanks GRUNHERZ
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I too have been hit by the "uber" ack. I flew one stinkin' pass at a VH gun emplacement and took it out. I banked to avoid overflying the airbase and I got one hit (see the golden bullet theory above) in the engine and it knocked it out. I've also had the CV ack problem where I'm 50 miles away and the ack is friggin' following me. I'm diving, weaving, changing speeds and no use. It finally stopped when I couldn't see the CV anymore.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
I just dont get it guys, before 105 ack I wasnt ever able to dack a field all by myself, but on the first day of 105, bout 5 minutes after the MA opened SUPERFLY and I took off a CV to attack A40 in chogs. I had all the ack down at this filed in 1 minute- and have pretty much the same experiences every time I tried again. The only time it realy ever killed me during a dedicated deacking run was when I had 2 1000lb bombs slung under me and flew real slow in a wide circle around the field- and even then it took the stupid guns 5 or 10 seconds of me flying in this straight line to hit me. Im just really surprised by these ack horror stories. Really just think how often you actually even see ack being up in 105 as compared to before, its quite obvious that they are an easier thing to kill/down than before.
thanks GRUNHERZ
Perhaps it's all about your technique. If you were good at killing acks pre-1.05, maybe ya just need to change your technique.
How do you go about killing acks Grun? Do you dive strait at 'em? Do you try to take out more than one at a time?
SOB
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Basically i fly right at them at high speed, sometimes jinking sideways a bit- at some long distance i open up with the hispanos and one hit kills the ack, I often try to kill more than 1 in a pass. I set up to shoot the next ack by banking/slipping in its direction and put some 20mm into it. I dont try to turn hard on the way out, but maintain speed, extend then reverse a bit higher for another fast pass. Im really amazed how bad the acks shoot, it seems to me that they cant hit you even if you fly right at them.
thanks GRUNHERZ
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Ack is client side is it not?
could a players PC affect the performance of the ack?
SKurj
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Field ack seems fairly harmless to me now.
I've been able to take down a V-base by myself 3-4 times in the past few days without a single ping...
This is a DHog with 2x1000 lbs, and 8 rocks.
Vertical dive from 8,000 feet with gear down, bomb down the Vhangar, pull out, reverse, kill one ack with rocks, pull out, reverse, strafe down the other.
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I know I am going to be in the minority here but I think the ack is not deadly enough. I can't figure why in a game based on a "historical" plane set you should figure on taking out the AA defenses with one or even two fighters successfully and with no damage. I just don't buy that this would have been a realistic probability in the real deal. A whole herd of jabo's and or a couple med buffs high up I can see but not one or two jabo's.
Mav
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Originally posted by Torgo:
Field ack seems fairly harmless to me now.
I've been able to take down a V-base by myself 3-4 times in the past few days without a single ping...
This is a DHog with 2x1000 lbs, and 8 rocks.
Vertical dive from 8,000 feet with gear down, bomb down the Vhangar, pull out, reverse, kill one ack with rocks, pull out, reverse, strafe down the other.
Use yer guns to take the acks in the first pass, you can get both of them w/o being touched. Pull up and over the top and drop a single 1k eggs into the middle of the hanger. Closed Vbase, head for the next one and wash/rinse/repeat. A -1D with eggs and rocks can take down 3 Vbases in a single sortie (if you've got fuel to reach all 3 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
Skurj I've wondered the same thing, along with some stuff about the mission planner lately.
Grun I used to post films of taking down all the guns at a field. In 1.04 I could deack a large field by myself in a hog (pick a model). In 1.03 I've did the same feat in a P-38 (before it was porked and the .50s nerfted). One of my personal favorites in my films was taking down all the guns and VH at (IIRC) A26 in the sterterr map, in the middle of a swirling dogfight and picking up a couple of non-vulch kills in the process. And I've deacked fields in every kite save the C.202 and the 109s (yes, I've deacked small fields in the Yak9 using only MGs).
SOB I've tried every adjustment to my technique I can think of, from altering my approach angle/path to my egress evasive options. Since 1.05 came out I have only successfully done deacking once, at A30 in an N1K I got all 9 guns w/o being touched. But that one sortie is the exception to the rule.
Grun, Tac, I'd love any/all films ya'll could send me of what currently works for deacking bases (assuming they got all the bugs of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ). My email is in my profile, thanks.
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Well, I'm pleased I'm not the only one whose been having trouble with ack. I ended up in the tower whilst on a 500mph fly by in a Tiffy. Next thing... ping... dead. Also I attacked a base tonight in a pnzr and was surprised at it firing at me from about 3k away. I had to climb a hill to get a decent shot on the field.
Regards
Nexx
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Cave: Go NOE when de-acking
Thats the best way. Now that this patch supposedly fixed the film recorder Ill try and remember to film it for ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW, ironically, the F4U-C is the best de-acker. For some reason the tiffie gets hit with much more regularity than the chog. Guess those AAA are programmed to shoot at the wing roots.. and since the chog's are gull-shaped...lol.
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Originally posted by Tac:
Cave: Go NOE when de-acking
Thats the best way. Now that this patch supposedly fixed the film recorder Ill try and remember to film it for ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW, ironically, the F4U-C is the best de-acker. For some reason the tiffie gets hit with much more regularity than the chog. Guess those AAA are programmed to shoot at the wing roots.. and since the chog's are gull-shaped...lol.
Tac I've tried NOE, read above. I end up with 1 ack killed and a fast trip back to the tower.
And did they beef up the acks against the .50s? Something dinnae seem right when I try using a -1D or one of the jugs =\
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Originally posted by CavemanJ:
SOB I've tried every adjustment to my technique I can think of, from altering my approach angle/path to my egress evasive options. Since 1.05 came out I have only successfully done deacking once, at A30 in an N1K I got all 9 guns w/o being touched. But that one sortie is the exception to the rule.
cc...was more of a note to myself (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If it helps any, I'm usually safe if I only take out one ack (for the purpose of maintaining a decent altitude for egress) and do a climbing roll with a bit of rudder on the way out.
I'm still gonna try diving strait in at high speed and opening up early. Any film would be greatly appreciated here too!
SOB
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I think the DHog is a better de-acker than the CHog.
I find that the .50s kill an ack just as fast as 20mm...
I believe the ammo lasts longer. And you can carry more rockets.
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<PUNT!>
HT this really needs to be looked at. Today at A43 I dive in, only 2 guns up, I kill them both and break off before the shells impact on the last gun. What happens? Yup, blown to hell. Tail shot off by ONE ping from a DEAD gun. Yes, I realize that the round was fired before the gun died, but I altered my course in TWO planes on the pull up and I still died.
There's nothing random about this ack. Random I could live with 50/50 on live or die. I'm running 90/10 die/live. The attack role is out for me unless I feel like dying.
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I have no problem with the ack. I tried to jabo in MA today. It was the first time in over 2 versions. I took a F6 with 500 lb eggs and rockets. I couldn't hit the acks with the bombs so tried strafing. I found as long as I didn't make a straight in run t9o them and walked the 50's into the gun it died very fast. I got to where I could take out 5 acks and then rocket and strafe the base with the sert of my ammo. Believe me, if I can do it, ANYONE can. Again this was the first time using the cat for jabo and no practice before hand.
I still fail to see why any pilot would expect to make repeated passes into AAA fire at an instalation and live. Ask the real pilots about that and they will tell you that ain't real.
I think the ack is UNDER powered if I can take it out with strafing.
Mav
PS sorry about any mispelling but the spell checker hasn't come up for me all day.
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aye cave, I sometimes manage to whack 3 or 4 acks in one pass.. and then usually die. I dont think that a single fighter or 2 should be able to de-ack the field alone, but I too think that the 1-ping-o-death is quite ridiculous. I would expect damage or engine shot out, but to be blown apart or a wing ripped out?
Now that Im in my P-38 I dont even go near that damn ack unless there are 6 other saps so that the ack can shoot at them while I shoot at the ack, and even then I still die. Been practicing with long range rocket firing but those things seem to propel only for 1 second... which to my mind means their range (to hit close to where you aimed is like d800 only.
Another thing i'd like to ask is if people have noticed that rockets will fly in the direction the plane is flying at that moment. Pull in a steep unpowered dive of 75 degrees... aim gunsight at target (using rudder), fire. Rockets will go in the direction your plane was falling (aka, 75 degrees straight down, as if you hadnt ruddered and aimed the nose like 45 degrees to one side). Shouldnt the rockets propel themselves in the direction my nose and my wings were facing?
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 02-06-2001).]
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I think its the one ping deaths that are the most frustrating. I wouldnt mind if the ack was even more accurate if they did less damage. This way the planes that were meant for ground attack would fare better than those that werent. I think it would "feel" more realistic that way.
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Just flew a couple C hog attack runs and got hit by the new(?) ack. I hafta add my support to tweaking them so they aren't quite so deady.
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I dove my p51 into a base with ack trying to kill enemies on the runway, there were 5 of them. I dive in, BOOM GOLDEN BS BB's BLOW MY WING OFF AND SET ME ON FIRE WITH 1 PING. You could tell i was pissed.
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I dove my p51 into a base with ack trying to kill enemies on the runway, there were 5 of them. I dive in, BOOM GOLDEN BS BB's BLOW MY WING OFF AND SET ME ON FIRE WITH 1 PING. You could tell i was pissed.
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Is ack really anymore deadly than before? Personally I think it is easier to dodge than before..BUT I die at the same rate now..hehe
I can de-ack a field no problem using my 109F. The only problems I normally have are when I'm having to watch enemy fighters and not the ack.
I routinely just sit in the tower or elsewhere when a base is shut down and watch f4u's galore make routinely low passes thru ack, turning tight just outside of the base and coming back.
I've chased those same hogs on 4 passes less than 500ft around the base and they never went down due to ack. Yet try that in my LW rides and it's sure death.
Now this isn't about the C-hog folks..I'm just merely pointing out that some ppl seem to fly thru ack with no problem vs. me who only dives on ack from 7-8k fires a 1 second burst then pulls out and try's it again.
Small field ack doesn't appear very deadly to me, but the 88's are the true killers and I agree that their extremely accurate. They must be modeled after German gunners (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Wingnut
Luftjagerkorps
(http://www.facelink.com/edit/raw/rawimage/27/1444127.gif)
The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it - Baron Manfred von Richthofen
[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 02-11-2001).]
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Ya know what? For once I totally agree with CavemanJ.
<PUNT>
HTC, a response would be appreciated.
Swoop