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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: angelsandair on June 27, 2008, 04:52:36 AM

Title: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 27, 2008, 04:52:36 AM
Today in MA, I was in my 109G6 w/ gondolas, I was jumped by a P-38 and a Spixteen after going RTB to land 3 kills. I tell you one thing, even WITH the gondolas, I handled my own. I didn't worry too much about the P-38 till he started to TnB... I made short work of him as quick as I could (got the assist though, wierd...), then the spixteen came in on me. It shot out my radiator and my little 109 kept chuggin along. I ended up killing him after a quick overshoot, and it lasted about another 4 to 5 minutes and I landed my kills :O
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Saurdaukar on June 27, 2008, 09:55:31 AM
Lose the gondolas and it becomes a whole new A/C.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: spit16nooby on June 27, 2008, 12:35:07 PM
Agreed with out the gondalas it is much better.  It might be a better idea to try the g-2. It is better at everything except the g-6's secondary guns are upgraded to 13mm.  I would also reccomend my main ride the 109k-4. 
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Bosco123 on June 27, 2008, 01:14:37 PM
I personally like the G6, it can TnB, if you know how to use it porperly. I usually don't fly it in the MA, but in the DA, were I get the best fights out of everyone.
<S>
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: BlauK on June 27, 2008, 01:16:39 PM
If you want gondolas, I'd rather suggest flying G-14. It can carry them easier.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: weazely on June 27, 2008, 02:07:30 PM
Fun plane to fly.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 27, 2008, 03:24:36 PM
I'm still sorta new with that "stall limiter off" combat, and the 109G6 is very kind to my turns. It doesnt stall out as easily, when in a spit 5, I was spinning after doing less than half the stuff...
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Xasthur on June 28, 2008, 01:16:03 AM
All the 109s take much more control input to create a serious stall. The 109's most violent stalls are still a 'wing dip' compared to what I've ended up with in the Spitfire.

Whilst the Spitfire is a dream going into turns I find it requires much more restraint that 109, where you can barrel into turns, roll over with full rudder input and only get a little stall buffet out of it.

The same sort of control inputs in a Spitfire will put it into a 'falling leaf' stall, I have found.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 28, 2008, 03:27:26 PM
yea... and the gondolas on the 109G6 makes it a deadly buff-hunter. Last night, I was flying one looking for a good fight, got jumped at 10k by another 109G2, spixteen, and an F4U.  I HO'd the spixteen (since I'm not gonna waste my time with one of those) and I took on the F4U first and after about 3 turns, down, same with the 109G2. I ended up landing 4 kills :P
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Motherland on June 28, 2008, 03:30:13 PM
Wow.... that's horrible...
the Bf.109G6 is probably the worst of the series. The fact that someone in a G2 was not able to beat you, with gondolas on your G6 no less, is kind of sad, since the G2 is one of the most well rounded of the series and one of my favorites.

The G6 is a lot of fun to fly though.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 28, 2008, 05:02:37 PM
Ehh... I was really really tired, and for some reason, when I'm tired, I do a whole lot better  :rock
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: DPQ5 on June 29, 2008, 02:06:09 AM
yeah i am starting to like the g6 my self, i use to only fly the g14
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 29, 2008, 02:09:08 AM
Earlier today, I got a whole bunch of people mad at me.

2 of them thought it would be an easy kill to HO my 109 (which I even usually think it is) but I almost always load-out gondolas. A spit 9 and a P-38 tried to HO me and.... well, it wasn't pretty. I then got in a turn fight with 2 different spit 9s and Won.

But is it me or are the Gondolas not very accurate? I wasnt hitting too much with time till atleast 400 out.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Xasthur on June 29, 2008, 05:14:51 AM
That will depend on your convergence, they are a long way out on the wing and they're set low. Think of the angle the gondolas have to fire from to meet at one set point.

Also, whilst you may have bagged some Spit9s in a G6 with gondolas keep in mind that a decent or even equal pilot will walk all over you given equal positions. The fact of the matter is that even a clean G6 with a light fuel load will be fighting a tough battle with a Spit9 or less as far as turning goes.

The Spit9 will also give the K4 a run for its money in the vertical, provided you don't have a significant advantage to begin with. Always be wary of Spits and don't be surprised if you get caught out by one that knows what they're doing.

There is a reason why many of the Luftwaffe pilots regarded the Spitfire as their most feared adversary.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 29, 2008, 03:26:26 PM
Well, I really like the 109s climb too. I had a spit about 1k below me trying to climb up to get a "free kill" I just nosed on up, when he fell down, I ruddered it and got him!

Oh and I set my Gondola convergence to usually 225 or 250. Should it be out a little farther?
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Saurdaukar on June 29, 2008, 05:17:01 PM
I HO'd the spixteen (since I'm not gonna waste my time with one of those)

I think Im going to start doing this.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 29, 2008, 05:32:15 PM
 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Well, with the chance of fighting Saantana and his spixteen, I didn't take a chance :) :rock
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Oldman731 on June 29, 2008, 11:31:12 PM
Wow.... that's horrible...
the Bf.109G6 is probably the worst of the series. The fact that someone in a G2 was not able to beat you, with gondolas on your G6 no less, is kind of sad, since the G2 is one of the most well rounded of the series and one of my favorites.

The G6 is a lot of fun to fly though.

I've always thought that flying the G6 effectively marks the pinnacle of success for 109 pilots.

- oldman
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Motherland on June 29, 2008, 11:40:29 PM
I've always thought that flying the G6 effectively marks the pinnacle of success for 109 pilots.

- oldman
Meh.
The 109G6 is probably the worst of the series in the LWMA save the Emil, however, I don't think that flying it effectively is so special. In truth, it's not that much of a step down in performance from the 109G2, the main difference being in speed; in the 109's most important performance field, climb rate, the G6 doesn't actually fall that far behind the G2. The G6 has two minor advantages over the G2, the guns and the armored headrest, which allows for greater visibility in the G6, though not much. The G6 'feels' more or less the same as the G2 in a climb or a turn, you just can't push it quite as far. I usually don't think 'chit, wish I had brought the G2' unless I'm trying to extend; there's a fairly large speed drop off. Though I think the trade off of extra mass cancels out those unaerodynamic bulges in a zoom climb. The main downside for the G6, IMO, is that it doesn't really fill a niche- the F4 is an excellent turnfighter, the G2 is a wonderful all-around fighter, the G14 is a great low altitude energy fighter and the K4 is a super fast great energy fighter at any altitude. On the other hand, we have the G6, which is just a crappier G2.

I do kinda like the G6 better, there are more, better skins for it, compared to the G2. And I like the extra hitting power, the MG131's can make a surprising difference sometimes.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 30, 2008, 12:17:03 AM
What can a G-14 do? I flew it recently, it seemed like a G-6. But hey, I dont know these 109s... yet.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Motherland on June 30, 2008, 12:22:09 AM
What can a G-14 do? I flew it recently, it seemed like a G-6. But hey, I dont know these 109s... yet.
The G14 has 3 major differences from the Bf.109G6-
The Erla-Haube canopy with less frames making it easier to track enemies;
The ability to carry the devastating Mk108 30mm cannon;
And, the largest difference, the MW50 power boost system.

The G14 and K4 also boast a larger vertical stabilizer and rudder than the other 109's we have in game, though I have never noticed any yaw instabilities on versions with a short rudder nor any handling difference at all going from the short to tall rudder.

The MW50 gives you much better performance on WEP than any other Gustav, however it makes the G14 heavier, and, more importantly, its effects are only felt on WEP; the G14 is the worst performing of the Gustavs on MIL. However, this isn't normally a problem as German a/c generally have very long WEP endurance.

The Bf.109K4 has an MW50 as well, but the engine itself is also upgraded from a Daimler-Benz DB605A to a DB605D which means it's the fastest 109 on WEP and MIL. It is also the only 109 in game that is worth anything over 23k.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 30, 2008, 12:27:15 AM
Ohh okay. So... I'm pretty much best off with the G-2/G-6 for lower alts? The overwhelming climb on the 109 has already saved my butt alot.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Motherland on June 30, 2008, 12:35:56 AM
The G14 is definitely the best Gustav. I've never had WEP run out on me on a German plane, the run time is insane, and the performance boost from the MW50 definitely warrants the extra weight. In fact, at some (low) altitudes the G14 outclimbs the Kurfurst. For high altitude fighting, though,  you definitely want to take the Kurfurst, or, better yet, the Ta152.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Platano on June 30, 2008, 12:41:37 AM
109 Ftw.  :aok
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Xasthur on June 30, 2008, 12:52:13 AM
The climb rate as similar right on the deck (K4 has the edge) then it levels out up to 5k where it's a dead heat. At 5 - 7K the G14 climbs better than the K4. From there it is even again up to 12k where things drop off for the Gustav. The climb rate doesn't get too hugely different until you get past 25k where the Gustav is absolute rubbish anyway.

WEP on speeds are a different story. Whilst the difference isn't huge (still a definite difference, though) below 5k, the K4 speeds away sharply as the altitude increases from there.
 
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Anaxogoras on June 30, 2008, 01:16:41 AM
Wow.... that's horrible...
the Bf.109G6 is probably the worst of the series. The fact that someone in a G2 was not able to beat you, with gondolas on your G6 no less, is kind of sad, since the G2 is one of the most well rounded of the series and one of my favorites.
:rofl

Well said bubi.  The worst way to go is to load the gondolas and a drop tank.  Even after you drop the tank, the rack plus the gondolas is like carrying a 500lb bomb.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on June 30, 2008, 02:36:40 AM
:rofl

Well said bubi.  The worst way to go is to load the gondolas and a drop tank.  Even after you drop the tank, the rack plus the gondolas is like carrying a 500lb bomb.

I dont mess around. Plus, when I'm flying against the usual tard in his spixteen or lgay-7, I dont take chances. I do load out the G6 w/o gondolas frequently though if I think the fighting will be on the deck or co-alt.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Saurdaukar on June 30, 2008, 08:58:06 PM
Meh.
The 109G6 is probably the worst of the series in the LWMA save the Emil, however, I don't think that flying it effectively is so special. In truth, it's not that much of a step down in performance from the 109G2, the main difference being in speed; in the 109's most important performance field, climb rate, the G6 doesn't actually fall that far behind the G2. The G6 has two minor advantages over the G2, the guns and the armored headrest, which allows for greater visibility in the G6, though not much. The G6 'feels' more or less the same as the G2 in a climb or a turn, you just can't push it quite as far. I usually don't think 'chit, wish I had brought the G2' unless I'm trying to extend; there's a fairly large speed drop off. Though I think the trade off of extra mass cancels out those unaerodynamic bulges in a zoom climb. The main downside for the G6, IMO, is that it doesn't really fill a niche- the F4 is an excellent turnfighter, the G2 is a wonderful all-around fighter, the G14 is a great low altitude energy fighter and the K4 is a super fast great energy fighter at any altitude. On the other hand, we have the G6, which is just a crappier G2.

I do kinda like the G6 better, there are more, better skins for it, compared to the G2. And I like the extra hitting power, the MG131's can make a surprising difference sometimes.

While I am generally of your opinion, I do feel that the G6 has better stall characteristics and a smoother sustained turn than the G2.  Just butt dyno, though.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: MjTalon on June 30, 2008, 09:04:29 PM
109 is the plane. Simple :salute

I tend to set my convergence on all of my 109s guns at 350 ( expect the MK 108 on the K4 ).  As xasthur posted above you really need to know the plane inside and out to get the full potential of the 109. I like the G6 for the skins  :devil which are some of the best in the series IMO. But the upped firepower is a killer if your a good shot.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: ian5440 on June 30, 2008, 11:42:25 PM


I tend to set my convergence on all of my 109s guns at 350 ( expect the MK 108 on the K4 ). 

i usually set the nose guns to 650 cuz since they go straight out it does not seem to effect the shot but im with ya for setting the wing guns to 350-400
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Xasthur on July 01, 2008, 12:58:55 AM
i usually set the nose guns to 650 cuz since they go straight out it does not seem to effect the shot but im with ya for setting the wing guns to 350-400

Convergence is not just horrizontal, it is just as important for centreline weapons.

(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/convergence3/Image2.gif)
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: evenhaim on July 01, 2008, 11:49:37 AM
A decent 109 stick can kill in any 109, I fly the g14 myself  iirc wmaker does too, agent and dutchie fly k4s as well as mazz, but the only guy who is always trouble in a g6 is kotari and platano.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Krusty on July 01, 2008, 11:57:56 AM
I like the G-6 a lot more (A LOT more) since we got 200 rds for it and the gondies were updated with more ammo.

It may not be the best of the 109s, but the 13mm are nice and to quote the Stray Cats, "it's got cat class and it's got cat style."


P.S. One of my favorite Gustav skins is the JG11 for the G-6!
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: alskahawk on July 01, 2008, 12:30:28 PM
 My trouble is that I always try to turnfight with the G6. Too much Spit time. I'm learning slowly. Keep fast, climb.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: mg1942 on July 01, 2008, 10:29:06 PM
My trouble is that I always try to turnfight with the G6. Too much Spit time. I'm learning slowly. Keep fast, climb.

err isn't 109s suppose to be better off fighting in groups (or with a wingman flying a 109?)
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Motherland on July 01, 2008, 10:30:21 PM
err isn't 109s suppose to be better off fighting in groups (or with a wingman flying a 109?)
The 190 is much more deadly with wingmen, the 109 can do just fine in a 1v1.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: angelsandair on July 01, 2008, 10:32:19 PM
The 190 is much more deadly with wingmen, the 109 can do just fine in a 1v1.

190s work better in pairs which is true. But you gotta coordinate. 1 has to watch the other's back as he dives down...  and so on.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Motherland on July 01, 2008, 10:33:04 PM
Believe me, I know :aok
And there are other ways to fight with wingmen other than to have one up high covering the lead. Unfortunately I'm really bad at explaining things.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Anaxogoras on July 01, 2008, 10:41:57 PM
The 190 is much more deadly with wingmen, the 109 can do just fine in a 1v1.

Bubi, you and I both know that every aircraft benefits from a wingman.  Perhaps the point you want to make is that the 190 benefits more than others.  In other words, in a 2vs2 fight, the 190 might be the best aircraft in the game.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Motherland on July 01, 2008, 10:48:30 PM
Bubi, you and I both know that every aircraft benefits from a wingman.  Perhaps the point you want to make is that the 190 benefits more than others.  In other words, in a 2vs2 fight, the 190 might be the best aircraft in the game.
Yes, that's what I mean.
Any situation can be benefited exponentially by the presence of a wingman. However, the 190, which is a less than stellar 1v1 fighter, becomes a monster in group engagements.
I remember an FSO a while back, some kind of North Sea scenario, where JG11 in 10-15 190A-8's engaged a group of 15-20 F4U1(A?)'s with a slight altitude advantage.
The result was total slaughter of the Corsairs, destroying probably every single one for two-three 190's, IIRC, until a second group of high Corsairs entered the fight and we were wiped out (we took more than a few of the second group with us though :aok ).
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: BnZ on July 01, 2008, 11:23:26 PM
Yes, that's what I mean.
Any situation can be benefited exponentially by the presence of a wingman. However, the 190, which is a less than stellar 1v1 fighter, becomes a monster in group engagements.
I remember an FSO a while back, some kind of North Sea scenario, where JG11 in 10-15 190A-8's engaged a group of 15-20 F4U1(A?)'s with a slight altitude advantage.
The result was total slaughter of the Corsairs, destroying probably every single one for two-three 190's, IIRC, until a second group of high Corsairs entered the fight and we were wiped out (we took more than a few of the second group with us though :aok ).

I am intrigued. Details and hints. Please.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: Anaxogoras on July 02, 2008, 12:07:23 AM
In multi-vs-multi engagements, flat turn ability becomes far less important than speed, firepower and roll-rate.  Other useful attributes are durability, zoom climb and diving ability.  In these respects, the 190 is superlative.  Another great multi-vs-multi aircraft is the P-47, for the same reasons.
Title: Re: 109G6, I'm starting to like it
Post by: MjTalon on July 02, 2008, 05:48:05 AM
Yes, that's what I mean.
Any situation can be benefited exponentially by the presence of a wingman. However, the 190, which is a less than stellar 1v1 fighter, becomes a monster in group engagements.
I remember an FSO a while back, some kind of North Sea scenario, where JG11 in 10-15 190A-8's engaged a group of 15-20 F4U1(A?)'s with a slight altitude advantage.
The result was total slaughter of the Corsairs, destroying probably every single one for two-three 190's, IIRC, until a second group of high Corsairs entered the fight and we were wiped out (we took more than a few of the second group with us though :aok ).


*cough* I've still got the film, those F4U's from the first group didn't survive long bubi  :rock. We were handing it to them untill that second wave of F4U's came in Hot and High and wiped us out, we gave them hell though.  :salute.

190s are deadly and almost untouchable with a experienced Lead and Wing behind the stick.