Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 01:45:34 AM

Title: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 01:45:34 AM
all i need to say is...its about time for a helldiver...it played a huge part in the war by destroying many japanese ships and ground targets.

and if it got in trouble the duel wing-mounted 20MMs could help it out
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: lyric1 on June 30, 2008, 02:29:08 AM
Why not more the merrier.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: angelsandair on June 30, 2008, 02:31:03 AM
Quote me if I'm wrong (I'd hate to be the one to be that one buzzkill) but I think IIRC the Helldiver was a failure. :(  :confused:
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: lyric1 on June 30, 2008, 02:36:53 AM
Quote me if I'm wrong (I'd hate to be the one to be that one buzzkill) but I think IIRC the Helldiver was a failure. :(  :confused:
If it was throw it in anyway something else to shoot at.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: AirFlyer on June 30, 2008, 02:59:41 AM
If it was throw it in anyway something else to shoot at.

Although I agree with you, I would also rather see more needed planes be added first.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: lyric1 on June 30, 2008, 06:53:34 AM
Although I agree with you, I would also rather see more needed planes be added first.
Agreed.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 30, 2008, 08:06:01 AM
The Helldiver was indeed a failure, and the pilots and crews couldnt wait for its replacement, which we already have.  :aok

There are MANY more planes that deserve a place in AHII before that thing.  Like the Mossi B Mk16/18.   :D  Of heck, I'd wish HTC would instead take the time and resources that it takes to make ne planes and apply those resources to fixes the bugs and incorrect stats in the planes already in the game.   Now THERE is an idea.  ;)
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 08:42:02 PM
well just the idea of a dive-bomber that could dog-fight appealed to me but i geuss im wierd  :lol
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: AirFlyer on June 30, 2008, 08:45:45 PM
well just the idea of a dive-bomber that could dog-fight appealed to me but i geuss im wierd  :lol

F6F, F4U's, and the P38's just to name a few that do just that.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 08:52:54 PM
 :lol

maybe this idea was dead from the beginning
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Spikes on June 30, 2008, 08:55:15 PM
all i need to say is...its about time for a helldiver...it played a huge part in the war by destroying many japanese ships and ground targets.

and if it got in trouble the duel wing-mounted 20MMs could help it out
~NO~
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 30, 2008, 08:55:55 PM
Quote me if I'm wrong (I'd hate to be the one to be that one buzzkill) but I think IIRC the Helldiver was a failure. :(  :confused:

The early versions were not up to snuff with the Dauntless but the C-4 version corrected many of the design flaws of the early SB2s.  From the time it served as the sole dive bomber for the USN in late '44, it had inflicted more damage on enemy shipping and installations than the Dauntless.


ack-ack
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Rolex on June 30, 2008, 09:01:02 PM
The Helldiver was indeed a failure, and the pilots and crews couldnt wait for its replacement, which we already have.  :aok

What plane is that? The TBM was not a replacement for the SB2C, if that is what you are thinking. The SB2C destroyed more tonnage than any other US Navy aircraft in WWII.

I don't think it's a high priority, but it would complete the historical complement of US aircraft on a 1944-1945 carrier, which is what out CV is.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Sgtlead on June 30, 2008, 09:08:03 PM
SB2C was a plane I was about to post here.  Thanks H338,  I say put it in.  some SBD and SB2C missions would be fun.   Yes I play this game for fun :)
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Karnak on June 30, 2008, 10:36:17 PM
It would be nice to see some non-US planes added you know.  There are tons of Japanese and Russian aircraft that need to be added.

If you want a bomber with two wing mounted 20mm cannons, look at the Japanese B7A1 "Grace" and the Russian Tu-2 as well.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 11:03:12 PM
tell me what those planes did

the helldiver sunk the yamato
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Karnak on June 30, 2008, 11:12:44 PM
tell me what those planes did

the helldiver sunk the yamato
We don't have the Yamato, nor was it a significant factor in WWII.  All it was was bragging rights.

B7A1s din't do much, being very late and in small numbers, but it was powerful and manueverable.  The Tu-2s had widescale service and made thousands of attacks on German positions.

You might also like the Il-2's successor, the Il-10.

The Japanese fielded almost as many designs as the US becasue they also had the Army/Navy split that we did, but look at the relative size of the planesets.  Sure, you can argue "what did any of them do?", but in that case why have any German or Japanese aircraft, they lost the war so obviusly they didn't do anything....
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 11:16:13 PM
yeah i agree those planes should be in...but the helldiver needs to be higher up on the priority list...and is
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Karnak on June 30, 2008, 11:25:40 PM
yeah i agree those planes should be in...but the helldiver needs to be higher up on the priority list...and is
Why?  The US has, by far, the largest, most complete planeset in AH.  The Japanese and Russians have small sets with lots of missing aircraft.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 11:30:01 PM
well because im the GODvCORN AND I SAY SOOOO!!!!!!!  :rofl
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: ian5440 on June 30, 2008, 11:30:59 PM
well because im the GODvCORN AND I SAY SOOOO!!!!!!!  :rofl

thats not a legit   :aok
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 11:33:22 PM
lol well im prolly gonna change my name to that
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 11:34:24 PM
well in conclusion they all need to be in
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Motherland on June 30, 2008, 11:36:56 PM
tell me what those planes did

the helldiver sunk the yamato
Ju87G-2 could mount 20mm cannons in the wings, and was flown by Hans-Ulrich Rudel who destroyed over 400 Soviet tanks, a battleship, several destroyers, and had 7-8 air to air kills IIRC.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: h338 on June 30, 2008, 11:38:32 PM
exactly and i have a post about more stukas also
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: angelsandair on July 01, 2008, 03:22:09 AM
The early versions were not up to snuff with the Dauntless but the C-4 version corrected many of the design flaws of the early SB2s.  From the time it served as the sole dive bomber for the USN in late '44, it had inflicted more damage on enemy shipping and installations than the Dauntless.


ack-ack

ohh okay, THEN PUT IT IN!!
 :D
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: whiteman on July 01, 2008, 10:58:30 AM
It's big and ugly but for some odd reason i really like the Helldiver.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Sgtlead on July 03, 2008, 02:08:31 AM
Why put in more US planes? well... WE WON THE WAR!!!! :lol

I will take whatever gets added.  I look forward to the new additions :)
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: whiteman on July 03, 2008, 02:52:13 AM
seriously i like every thing thats suggested that meets HTC requirements. would say yes we need more Japanese planes before U.S. but this thread is for the Big-Tailed Beast .
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: hlbly on July 03, 2008, 06:01:29 AM
Ju87G-2 could mount 20mm cannons in the wings, and was flown by Hans-Ulrich Rudel who destroyed over 400 Soviet tanks, a battleship, several destroyers, and had 7-8 air to air kills IIRC.
I believe those were 37mm cannon .
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: angelsandair on July 03, 2008, 06:42:27 AM
  a battleship

Which battleship?!?
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Jester on July 03, 2008, 08:44:48 AM
Which battleship?!?

Soviet Battleship MARAT
(http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/photos/sj/bb_marat.jpg)
He hit the ship in the bow area with a 2000 lbs bomb blowing up one of the forward magazines. Marat sank in shallow water but three out of her four main gun turrets were operational and she was used as an artillery battery.


Rudel was easily the BEST Dive-Bomber & Ground Attack Pilot of WW2. Here are some of his stats:

Flew 2,530 Combat Missions (Most of them in the Stuka)
Was shot down or forced landed 32 times
Destroyed:
Over 800 Vehicles
519 Tanks
150 SP Artillery Guns
4 Armored Trains
Plus numerous Bridges, Artillery guns, military positions, etc.
Sunk:
1 Battleship
2 Cruisers
1 Destroyer
70 Assault Craft/Landing Boats
Shot Down:
2 IL-2's
7 Fighter Aircraft

Had his leg amputated and flew the last quarter of his combat missions with a artificial leg.
He was the sole recipient of Germany's highest award - the Knights Cross with Golden Oak Leaves, Swords & Diamonds.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Tr1gg22 on July 03, 2008, 10:30:10 AM
all i need to say is...its about time for a helldiver...it played a huge part in the war by destroying many japanese ships and ground targets.

and if it got in trouble the duel wing-mounted 20MMs could help it out
I will have to google the helldiver.   I don't no what they are :o
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: whiteman on July 03, 2008, 10:51:41 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/SB2C_Helldiver.jpg)
(http://www.nasjax.navy.mil/Command_Information/aircraft_photos/1940s/Low-Resolution/SB2C_helldiver_1943_72dpi.jpg)
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: waystin2 on July 03, 2008, 11:18:41 AM
Stop posting such sexy pics Whiteman!  :rock
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Motherland on July 03, 2008, 11:57:26 AM
I believe those were 37mm cannon .
20mm's were the standard armament, in the wings, the 37mm's were mounted under the wings with the 20mm's removed.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 03, 2008, 12:26:03 PM
20mm's were the standard armament, in the wings, the 37mm's were mounted under the wings with the 20mm's removed.

No.  The only Ju-87 that had 20mm mounted in the wings was the Ju-87D-5.  The Ju-87G-1 and G-2 were equipped with 37mm Flak 18 cannons mounted in pods under the wings.  In addition, they also carried mg-42s for the rear gunner. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Motherland on July 03, 2008, 12:27:30 PM
No.  The only Ju-87 that had 20mm mounted in the wings was the Ju-87D-5.  The Ju-87G-1 and G-2 were equipped with 37mm Flak 18 cannons mounted in pods under the wings.  In addition, they also carried mg-42s for the rear gunner. 

ack-ack
I thought the Ju87G2 and the D5 were the same aircraft, just with the G2 having more armament options?
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 03, 2008, 12:36:50 PM
Ju87G-2 could mount 20mm cannons in the wings, and was flown by Hans-Ulrich Rudel who destroyed over 400 Soviet tanks, a battleship, several destroyers, and had 7-8 air to air kills IIRC.

He destroyed a battleship, 2 cruisers and a destroyer.  When he sank the Marat, he was flying a Ju-87B not a G-1 as the G-1 wasn't in service at the time he sunk the Soviet battleship or the other Soviet naval ships.  Rudel didn't start flying the G-1 until '43 when the model was introduced as a tank busting version of the Ju-87D-3.  Also, Rudel didn't fly a G-2, he maybe have taken a hop or two in one but his main ride after '43 was the G-1 (there was also a period where he flew a FW-190 (11 kills)).

ack-ack
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 03, 2008, 12:38:05 PM
I thought the Ju87G2 and the D5 were the same aircraft, just with the G2 having more armament options?

The G-2 is a modified D-5 but with the 20mm wing mounted cannons removed.  The G-1 is a modified D-3.


ack-ack
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Karnak on July 05, 2008, 12:57:39 AM
Calling the Marat a "Batttleship" in WWII is very generous.  When people read the word "Battleship" in the context of WWII they think of something like the Iowa class, Bismark class, Yamato class or even the "small" 42,000 ton King George V class, all of which positively dwarf the Marat.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Roundeye on July 05, 2008, 11:20:11 AM
+1.  Add the SB2C!

I met a Brother at lodge Thursday night who has been a Mason for 58 years.  I asked how old he was when he went in an he said 23.  So I asked him if he was in the "Big One" and he said yes, he was in aviation in the Navy.  I had a new best friend :).  We talked for a while and I learned that he crewed SB2C Helldivers.  He had nothing but good things to say about them.  It was a rugged airplane that always brought him back. 

He had flown in SBDs and TBFs.  He liked the SB2C the best.  He said the SBDs were obselete and the TBFs were a good plane, but a crewmembers' life expectancy in one of those was short.  He told me of a hole made into the belly of the TBF underneath the radio operator/lower tail gun section that was used for a drain when they would spray out the blood after a bad mission ( I believe he called it a "slop hole"):confused:.

I have a great respect for all veterans.  If you meet one of any conflict/war, look them in the eye, give them a firm handshake and THANK THEM for your freedom.  :salute    WWII vets are passing on at an alarming rate.  If you meet one, talk to them and you will get some one-of-a-kind firsthand stories.  I have been blessed to meet a B-17 pilot, a F4U pilot, a F4U mechanic, a B-29 crew member and now a SB2C crew member. :aok
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Jester on July 05, 2008, 12:10:03 PM
Calling the Marat a "Batttleship" in WWII is very generous.  When people read the word "Battleship" in the context of WWII they think of something like the Iowa class, Bismark class, Yamato class or even the "small" 42,000 ton King George V class, all of which positively dwarf the Marat.

I am sure the Germans at Normandy and the Japanese on Iwo Jima & Okinawa thought the same thing about the USS ARKANSAS BB-33 (Commissioned 1912) - that is till she opened fire on them.   ;)

Not the Dog in the Fight - but the FIGHT in the Dog.   :aok

USS ARKANSAS BB-33 off Iwo Jima, 1944
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/USS_Arkansas_BB-33.jpg)
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: HighTone on July 05, 2008, 12:49:53 PM
 :aok I would love to see the Helldiver :aok
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: C(Sea)Bass on July 06, 2008, 01:40:08 PM
Not only does it have the 20mms, but it has better performance over the SBD in almost every category. Its faster, climbs better, flies higher, and carries more ords. The only thing the SBD may be better at is turning, but im not sure on that. An SB2C would see moderate use in the MA, far more than the SBD, and would also be a positive addition to scenarios.

Yes there are alot of Japanese planes missing, but how many of them would see usage outside of the SEA. The Judy is the only one I have seen alot of support for.

FYI that is a Helldiver in my Avatar. A friend of my family flew the one pictured during WWII. Im not sure what ship that is in the picture.
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: SmokinLoon on July 06, 2008, 06:36:19 PM
Already replied once to this thread... but hey...

What is the point of adding any more dive bombers if the Typhoon and Bf110G-2 rule the show already?   ;)
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Jester on July 06, 2008, 06:38:30 PM
Because there is no such thing as a "SEA Typhoon" or a "SEA 110" on the carriers.   :D
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: Karnak on July 07, 2008, 02:54:14 AM
Because there is no such thing as a "SEA Typhoon"...

Fairey Firefly....   :P
Title: Re: ~HELLDIVER~
Post by: SuperbKi11er on July 17, 2008, 12:31:07 PM
this plane rocks and is a must add. but there are more important planes before it