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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Minotaur on March 13, 2000, 12:43:00 PM

Title: Static Views
Post by: Minotaur on March 13, 2000, 12:43:00 PM
Sorry for the length of this post.  I could not express these ideas simpler and ensure they were clearly understood.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Regarding snap views currently in AH.  When a view is selected the key must be held down for the view to remain in use.  IE:  Pressing and holding KP4 gives Left view.  Releasing KP4 gives and returns back to FrontHome view.

Additionallly any view can be modified one time.  IE:  Pressing and holding KP4 then pressing and holding KP5 gives LeftUp view.

The mechanics of this are in the way the game reads key presses and key releases.  IE:  The view is held after a "key pressed code" is recieved.  Then reset after a "key released code" is received.

Thrustmaster gear easily allows this to be done via the use of RAW codes in programed macros.  So instead of the requirement to press and hold a switch, the switch can just be pressed once, sending only a key pressed code and the view stays.

This key pressed code must be reset and is easily done via the use of another macro.  IE: Reseting a view that has not been set has no effect.  Basically this means pressing all the keys on KP really fast via the use of a macro.  This resets any and all of the key pressed codes.  

For views that are used often a ViewReset is sent first, then the key pressed code(s) is sent.  IE: So for a FrontUP view.  First a ViewReset is sent, which sends key presses and key releases for every key on the KP.  This resets any prior view in use.  Then the key press codes KP8 and KP5 are sent.  The view FrontUp is now in use and the view will stay until reset.

This is a little hassle to set up, and the only programable joystick,that I am aware of, that can do this is a Thrustmaster.  

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Suggestion: Allow views to be selected and remain in use until the view is reset or another view is selected.

Method of suggestion 1: Make views static by not acknowledging the "key released code".  This would require the use of one "master reset key" as part of the program code.  The function of the master reset key would be to send reset codes very quickly for all the view keys.  The master reset could default to the Home key.

Examples:
Method of suggestion 2:  Make views togglable and re-selectable.  This means two things.  
Examples  
Modifying views in the up or down direction for method of suggestion 2:  Currently the directional views provided by the keypad allow any view along the horizontal axis, 8 views total.  To modify a view in the up or down direction would require the use of 2 special keys, the CTRL and ALT.  CTRL would select an Up function and ALT would select a down.

Examples:

Selecting views in the up or down direction for method of suggestion 2:  Single unmodified views for up and down would use KP5 and KP0.  For these two view keys no modification could be allowed.  IE:  All keys except the designated view keys for Up and Down could be modified using CTRL and ALT.

Examples:
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Keyboard remapping is extremely flexible in AH.  Any view can be assigned to any key combonation.  
Examples:-----------------------------------------

IMO this system would not change the existing view system in a very significant way.  It would also make it easier to use.  

An option could be provided to use this method or to use existing method.  One method or the other could be user selected similiar to the way that "Otto Take Offs" are now user selected.

Advantages:  
Thanks for readiing if you got to here!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-13-2000).]
Title: Static Views
Post by: Duckwing6 on March 14, 2000, 03:38:00 AM
hmmm... i preffere the non-static (reseting views) because having to keep the view switch pressed gives me a positive feedback about my head orientation that i need to keep y orientation. (i use a MS-Prec. Pro and the only hassle i have is that the nbr.4 switch is my 45°up/normal toggle switch and it's a bit awkward to press with your tumb while holding the coolie hat to a certain view)

But every option is a good thing as long as we can choose how we want the setup  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Static Views
Post by: -lynx- on March 14, 2000, 05:44:00 AM
Agree with Duckwing here. Fixed views make very little sense and double the workload in flight.

Say, a glance to the left is one hat-press - release and you back to default view. With fixed view it'll require another (conscious) input from a pilot. Can't really see it working. Plus, can we finally drop an argument about "cheap" vs. "expensive"
sticks? We all use more or less expensive machines costing hundreds of pounds/dollars/whatevers - a cheap stick nowadays comes with hatswitch as standard. And the difference in price between "cheap" and "expensive" was just a few quid last time I looked.

p.s. Mino, when was the last time you used KP4 <the keypad> to change views  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)?

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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 03-14-2000).]
Title: Static Views
Post by: miko2d on March 14, 2000, 10:52:00 AM
 You are forgetting about people with disabilities. For them absence of a fixed view means the game is not playable.

 Also, Fighting Corps (I think) allowed a very nice viewing mode - panning among the discreete views. Right/Left and Up/Down in 45-degree increments - that would be more usefull then slow unlimited panning view and  require only 4-way hat, though 8-way could also be utilised.

 miko--
Title: Static Views
Post by: Minotaur on March 14, 2000, 02:32:00 PM
   
Quote
Originally posted by -lynx-:
Agree with Duckwing here. Fixed views make very little sense and double the workload in flight.

Say, a glance to the left is one hat-press - release and you back to default view. With fixed view it'll require another (conscious) input from a pilot. <snip>

p.s. Mino, when was the last time you used KP4 <the keypad> to change views      (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)?

Lynx;

I use the Key Pad often if I am not engaged in combat.  Particularly outside of plane views, if they are available.

For your other questions, consider this for joystick users.  There is no more or no less hassle providing the joystick is programable.  

Abbreviations for my discussion:
Two methods same result:
This is one configuration and only one more key press must be programmed under SV.  This is the Home key when the JHS is released and is described below:


This becomes transparent to the user.

BUT....  The SV offers one important option.  You don't have to hold the JHS if you don't want to.  

I find the most efficient use would go like this:
For comparison:


The SV system actually provides the same functionality and the same or better efficientcy.  This meaning the number of key presses required to accomplish a task.  In this case a higher SA by automatically checking six.

Checking six becomes reflexive to most players anyway and not an issue IMO.

For joysticks that are not programable (Sorry for my generalization, not always less expensive) and usually only have 4-8 buttons or switch positions. Button and switch utilization is critical and often requires the keyboard to utilize views.  

An efficient method for these users is to have one button on the joystick that serves as an Up view modifier.  Horizontal views are selected using the Key pad and are modified to Up using a button on the joystick.
 
Functionally for these users:


This requires the player literally to have their hand glued to the keyboard at all times.  What about flaps, gear and selecting weapons?



You get the idea...

   
Quote
Method of suggestion 1: Make views static by not acknowledging the "key released code". This would require the use of one "master reset key" as part of the program code. The function of the master reset key would be to send reset codes very quickly for all the view keys. The master reset could default to the Home key.

Realistically this method would be the easiest to implement for AH:
So the above example would work like this if key released codes were ignored:


Primarily this would allow one modification to any view of Up, Down, Left or Right. This is possible now and provides the greatest possible versatility.  

Static views could be provided for the effort of three modifications to game code:
Realizing a mistake I have made in my discussion results from re-mapping my keyboard.  The Home key by default is used to reset a "Saved" view.  I have re-mapped this to use the F9 key.  The Home key is just one key used to describe a view reset, and of course, is re-mappable anyway.

Thanks again!     (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-14-2000).]
Title: Static Views
Post by: Minotaur on March 16, 2000, 01:01:00 PM
HTC;

This is long!      (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)  Please read this only if you have the time.  I am excited about this possiblity and think that is it worthy of your consideration.

I am continuing my quest for modifying the AH existing view system.  The is regarding a change that would allow views to be selected, but not requiring that the key be held continuously.  

I believe that I have devised a method for you to accomplish this.  A system that works 100% within the current framework of game code and still provides the enhancements that I would like to see.

I am very confident my methods will work, because they already are working.  The method I use is external via programmed macros using my Thrustmaster Joystick.  I have used this same system for AW, WB and now AH.  

I am guessing that this implementation into your game code will remarkably improve versatility of an already remarkable and very versatial view system.  IMO this will "Blow the competition out of the water!".

Please keep in mind that I do not know the mechanics of programing nor the specific operations of a computor.  This presentation will only describe the logical and functional aspects of what I propose.

******************************************
Abbreviations I will use:


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Discussion:
Currently AH utililizes a view that is called at "Look".  For example; "Look Front Up".  

I propose the addition of two more view methods and one more view added.  I call would call these views a "Stare", "Glance" and "Home".  For example; "Stare Front Up", "Glance Left" or "Home".

The use of a Stare, Glance and Home requires a coded function added to the game code.  I will call this the "ViewReset Function" or VRF.  The VRF will act to reset all 26 possible views.  Functioning to reset all the KPC's that are set and return the view to FrontHome.  

Reseting a KPC has no effect on the game, unless a specific KPC has been prevously set.  For example; if I send KPC_KP4, then  the KPC for key KP4 is set.  A call to VRF will simultaneously reset all the view key KPC's. Since only KP4 is set, then only KP4 is effected and then KPC is reset.

******************************************
Desription of Functionality:
Functionality:


******************************************
Implementation:
As I stated before, I request these modifications to allow sustaining a given view and not requiring the key to held down.  

Concerning Stare and Glance views, not every possible view of the 27 possible views will require the capability of a Stare or a Glance.  Only critical or more useful views, in the AH current view matrix, will require them.

Stare View Description:
These are views that are often used for combat and are critical IMO for "Lose Sight Lose Fight".  These views are used repeatedly to maintain constant view of the target.

The advantage of a Stare view is that it will always go straight to the view that is requested.  No mofifiers, no messing around, you press the key and you get the view.

Views that would have Stare capablility would be Front, FrontUp, Up, BackUp, Back, Left, Right and Down.  Basically the "core" view group.  

The Down view is only a useful combat view when using an external view.  It would also be very useful when using the bombsight.

Glance View Description:
These views have less value in combat, but are very important to maintain SA.  Glance views will serve as a modifier to a view that is already set.  For example if the Up view is set, a  Glance Left view would modify the Up view to LeftUp.

Views that would have Glance capablility would be Front, Back, Left and Right.  

Note:  The implementation of Glance views is not a critical as the implementation of Stare views.  Every function provided by the Glance view is currently provided by the Look view, except keyboard efficientcy.  I believe Glance views would increase efficientcy by requiring fewer key presses by not requiring a press of the Home key.

******************************************
Game Functionality and Operation:
Below I will give examples of how this system could be effectively utilized within the game.

Example:
Example:


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If you got to here, thanks for reading.  That is all I asked for in the beginning.

Thanks again!               (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-16-2000).]
Title: Static Views
Post by: Duckwing6 on March 16, 2000, 04:36:00 PM
jeeeezz is that complicated Mino...
I mean all of this is pretty intuitive with a notmal coolie switch and 1 button to swap horizontal to 45°up mode...

But as i said as long as it's optional .. (options never hurt  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
Title: Static Views
Post by: Minotaur on March 16, 2000, 08:43:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Duckwing6:
jeeeezz is that complicated Mino...
I mean all of this is pretty intuitive with a notmal coolie switch and 1 button to swap horizontal to 45°up mode...

But as i said as long as it's optional .. (options never hurt   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))

Duckwing;

Actually not complicated at all in use, but to explain properly kinda sorta.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

I don't think most people have been explosed to a system like this.  I have been using it for 3+ years.  Seems easier to me and as I said expands the versatility about 2 fold.

Thanks for your reply!   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)




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Mino
The Wrecking Crew