Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Oogly50 on July 04, 2008, 03:57:03 PM
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Yes, I finally got a Lazer. Not a lazer 'beam', but a lazer boat.
One of the kids in my sailing class has a father who didn't want his lazer any more. So he said we could borrow it for the summer. (He just wants to get rid of it... he doesnt care how much he gets for it)
Well, we can see why he didn't want it anymore... The second we saw it, it was covered in Moss, and everything was all stinky :eek:
So we took it home, and used a Pressure Washer to take off all the moss and dirt... Now it looks brand new. So we decided to try and rig the mast. We got it to stand up straight, but one of the things the mast connects to is bent out of shape. It doesn't effect anything, but it looks a little bad. We're pretty sure that it's connected and put together correctly. However, we see a few things that are left out, like a hook, and a few little holes.
The thing is, this Lazer is supposed to have a Jib (I think that's what they're called) Which is a smaller sail that goes in front of the main sail. We don't have the main sail OR the Jib. They're at the place we got the boat from, we're going back tomorrow to get the sail(s)
We dunno how to put that either though... So, I guess we'll figure it out.
I'll have pictures later.
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LOL!!!
I forsee another Nilsen type incident coming. At least you'll be going slower...although lazers can go pretty quick in good wind.
...and yea...you'll need those sails.
lol
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Well I already know how to sail... Infact, I'm participating in an enormous Opti regatta this wednsday on Lake Geneva.
Supposed to be 500+ Opti's alone... around 40 different countries being represented, and the top 10 go to junior olympics. :pray
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Do a google search on the boat. You should be able to find some info on how it's supposed to be rigged and how the hardware is supposed to be mounted. I'd imagine there are more than a couple clubs dedicated to the little guys. Have fun with it.
I learned to sail small boats here at Ft. Lewis on American Lake. I was hoping to do it again here but they did away with all of the small sail boats several years ago. Darn and that was one of my better memories of the time I spent on post too.
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I am intimately familiar with Lasers (with an S). Its where my name comes from. Until you learn what the names are, you can go here: http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d90000/e87207.asp to tell us which parts are wrong.
Laser equipment is moderately over priced due to the strict one design nature and the monopoly Vanguard (Laser Performance) has over the stuff. However, there are so many lasers you probably wouldn't have a problem finding spare parts from someone.
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Yes, I finally got a Lazer. Not a lazer 'beam', but a lazer boat.
One of the kids in my sailing class has a father who didn't want his lazer any more. So he said we could borrow it for the summer. (He just wants to get rid of it... he doesnt care how much he gets for it)
Well, we can see why he didn't want it anymore... The second we saw it, it was covered in Moss, and everything was all stinky :eek:
So we took it home, and used a Pressure Washer to take off all the moss and dirt... Now it looks brand new. So we decided to try and rig the mast. We got it to stand up straight, but one of the things the mast connects to is bent out of shape. It doesn't effect anything, but it looks a little bad. We're pretty sure that it's connected and put together correctly. However, we see a few things that are left out, like a hook, and a few little holes.
The thing is, this Lazer is supposed to have a Jib (I think that's what they're called) Which is a smaller sail that goes in front of the main sail. We don't have the main sail OR the Jib. They're at the place we got the boat from, we're going back tomorrow to get the sail(s)
We dunno how to put that either though... So, I guess we'll figure it out.
I'll have pictures later.
Oh, and Lasers are NOT supposed to have a jib.
Unless you see wires to hold the mast up, the mast slips into the hole in the deck. Get some pictures uploaded. I'm very familiar with them.
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If it has a jib it is a Laser 2.
http://www.theboathouse.biz/boat_vanguard_laser2.asp
Have had one for 15years. Lots of fun. :D
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Small boat sailing is tons of fun. Windsurfers too. Kitesurfers too, but I'm too lazy to try that.
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LOL!!!
I forsee another Nilsen type incident coming. At least you'll be going slower...although lazers can go pretty quick in good wind.
...and yea...you'll need those sails.
lol
Nilsen's thread was classic. Just watch out for the sandbars Oogly!!
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PICTURE TIME. :rock
Lazer Sailer, here is a photo of the Mast
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4935/013tk8.th.jpg) (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=013tk8.jpg)
It has 3 ropes. One attaches to a little ring on the nose, another on the right side, and then another on the left side, which attach to the side of the boat.
This is what the boat looked like before we got done with it.
(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7593/009zq4.th.jpg) (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=009zq4.jpg)
This is after we fixed 'er up.
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9361/014wg1.th.jpg) (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=014wg1.jpg)
Another pic of the mast
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/559/012vh7.th.jpg) (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=012vh7.jpg)
And then the sail boat all in all (Horrible paint job, we'll be getting Nautical paint)
(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1391/011fs0.th.jpg) (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=011fs0.jpg)
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If it has a jib it is a Laser 2.
http://www.theboathouse.biz/boat_vanguard_laser2.asp
Have had one for 15years. Lots of fun. :D
The Laser 2. The greatest 2 person dinghy that never really happened. My favorite boat in the world.
You still have it?
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Well, the person giving us the lazer says it is 2 person...
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PICTURE TIME. :rock
Lazer Sailer, here is a photo of the Mast
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4935/013tk8.th.jpg) (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=013tk8.jpg)
It has 3 ropes. One attaches to a little ring on the nose, another on the right side, and then another on the left side, which attach to the side of the boat.
This is what the boat looked like before we got done with it.
(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7593/009zq4.th.jpg) (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=009zq4.jpg)
This is after we fixed 'er up.
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9361/014wg1.th.jpg) (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=014wg1.jpg)
Another pic of the mast
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/559/012vh7.th.jpg) (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=012vh7.jpg)
And then the sail boat all in all (Horrible paint job, we'll be getting Nautical paint)
(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1391/011fs0.th.jpg) (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=011fs0.jpg)
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d93000/e92730.asp
Yup, it's a Laser 2. It really is my most favorite boat in the world. I kick myself almost every night for allowing mine to be sold off when I left for college. Here are some more links:
http://www.laser2sailing.org/
Is this a launcher boat? Depending on the year it was made, it might have a tube from the port bow deck, to the port side of the cockpit. This was used for launching and collecting the spinnaker VERY easily. If it isn't, you can easily make a launching bag to be fitted on the deck. But this is probably getting ahead of yourself.
You might be able to pick up a set of sails here:
http://www.laserperformance.com/main/index.php?option=com_adsmanager&page=show_category&catid=32&text_search=&order=0&expand=0&Itemid=378
http://www.laserforum.org/
There used to be a decent amount of stuff at www.teamvanguard.com . However, the european manufacturer of the Laser (laser performance) bought them out and practically stopped supporting the Laser 2 in anyway. Extremely unfortunate, but with the state of affairs, about due.
Anyway, the Laser 2. It's a 2 person dinghy with better performance than most anything else a casual sailor can get their hands on. It has an extremely well shaped hull by the famous Frank Bethwaite. It has a trapeze. This is a set of wires that come off the mast to the deck on each side which the crew (forward sailor) hooks a harness onto and stands out on the edge with.
http://www.laser2sailing.org/3com10.jpg
It also has a spinnaker. All of these combined give you a well performing boat. Should be a lot of fun.
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Taking a look at the pictures, it looks like it isn't set up for a trapeze, yet it has some components for the Spinnaker.
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The Spinnaker is the front sail right? Wow, I should just take a picture of all the parts I have together and have you tell me what I'm missing. :D
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Yes, I finally got a Lazer. Not a lazer 'beam', but a lazer boat.
One of the kids in my sailing class has a father who didn't want his lazer any more. So he said we could borrow it for the summer. (He just wants to get rid of it... he doesnt care how much he gets for it)
Well, we can see why he didn't want it anymore... The second we saw it, it was covered in Moss, and everything was all stinky :eek:
So we took it home, and used a Pressure Washer to take off all the moss and dirt... Now it looks brand new. So we decided to try and rig the mast. We got it to stand up straight, but one of the things the mast connects to is bent out of shape. It doesn't effect anything, but it looks a little bad. We're pretty sure that it's connected and put together correctly. However, we see a few things that are left out, like a hook, and a few little holes.
The thing is, this Lazer is supposed to have a Jib (I think that's what they're called) Which is a smaller sail that goes in front of the main sail. We don't have the main sail OR the Jib. They're at the place we got the boat from, we're going back tomorrow to get the sail(s)
We dunno how to put that either though... So, I guess we'll figure it out.
I'll have pictures later.
Screw the pictures.
This upcomming comedic disaster calls for video! LMAO
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The Spinnaker is the front sail right? Wow, I should just take a picture of all the parts I have together and have you tell me what I'm missing. :D
The jib is the foresail that connects (sorta) to the front stay (front metal wire holding up the mast).
A spinnaker is a large somewhat free floating sail that is hoisted when you're sailing downwind. A difficult sail to learn and use, but very fast and rewarding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baCSG1J3fpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGtteIYNQy0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3NnjqgrisU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCkNGFbWjWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc-mEBuxapo
Those are some of the better ones. Top one is a favorite I watch every week or two.
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Now now, I'm starting to get this figured out! :noid
The rudder DOESN'T go directly on the front... It leads to quite a few steering problems...
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The jib is the foresail that connects (sorta) to the front stay (front metal wire holding up the mast).
A spinnaker is a large somewhat free floating sail that is hoisted when you're sailing downwind. A difficult sail to learn and use, but very fast and rewarding.
The sailing clock still applies to it right? I'm just assuming that it has no mainsheet to pull it in, but probably just a regular rope?
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The sailing clock still applies to it right? I'm just assuming that it has no mainsheet to pull it in, but probably just a regular rope?
What?
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Okay... So if I'm going on a reach, the spinnaker needs to be half-way out, just like my sail? If I'm going upwind, my Spinnaker needs to be pulled in all the way, just like my sail?
Basically, it just behaves like a regular sail right?
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Okay... So if I'm going on a reach, the spinnaker needs to be half-way out, just like my sail? If I'm going upwind, my Spinnaker needs to be pulled in all the way, just like my sail?
Basically, it just behaves like a regular sail right?
Ah. The highest point of sail the spinnaker would be used on would be a beam reach (90degr to the wind). If you're sailing any closer to the actual wind angle, you wouldn't trim it in to fit, you'd pull the sail down. If you're sailing an angle further downwind than you'd bring the spinnaker more square to the wind, while letting all the other sails out.
The spinnaker is only a temporary sail. It goes up when you start to sail downwind. It comes down before you start to sail upwind.
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So, when going into a broad reach, I would still leave my Spinnaker at a beam reach position?
When you say "it comes down before you start to sail upwind" Does that mean that it gets "put away?"
Is there a fast and easy way to "put it away?"
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So, when going into a broad reach, I would still leave my Spinnaker at a beam reach position?
When you say "it comes down before you start to sail upwind" Does that mean that it gets "put away?"
Is there a fast and easy way to "put it away?"
The spinnaker is only tied onto the boat in 3 positions. It's a roughly triangular symmetrical sail. The halyard holds it up, and the sheets trim it in. However, a spinnaker pole is used as well. This pole is placed on the windward side of the boat and is attached to the windward sheet.
As you turn the boat further downwind, you would ease out the jib and mainsail. However, you would shift the spinnaker around the front of the boat towards the wind so you can catch more wind. If you let the spinnaker out as you went downwind, it would go behind the jib and mainsail and not fill.
There's way more complex things to do with the spinnaker, but don't worry about them quite yet.
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:huh I'll read this once I'm not so tired, and maybe it'll make more sense. I'm off to bed. Thanks for all your help sir! :salute
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:huh I'll read this once I'm not so tired, and maybe it'll make more sense. I'm off to bed. Thanks for all your help sir! :salute
I'm too tired myself to check to see if I've described it correctly. So...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL3QzQusquE
However, spinnakers are hard to use. And until you get it perfected... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQIrMSI9YBo&feature=related you'll probably spend some time in the water. I did.
Capsizing these boats is no big deal. Remember that.
Capsizing these boats http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNJQMwW7iUY&NR=1 isn't so lighthearted though.
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I used to teach people to sail on those things. Lots of fun and so much faster than the 420's we were also using.
One thing I noticed though - the European boats almost all had spinnaker chutes (only really early models didn't) so I'm guessing this is either a really, really old boat or its a 'fun' model that doesn't have a spinnaker.
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A difficult sail to learn and use...
Yup - think steering with your knees whilst trying to hoist the sail fast enough to not sail over it whilst your crew's tries to attach the pole to the mast and guy, set the pole to the right height and get it sheeted in. Meanwhile the boat's just hit warp speed, there's spray everywhere and you're teetering on the edge of a capsize. Then you gybe...
Ah good stuff.
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The Laser 2. The greatest 2 person dinghy that never really happened. My favorite boat in the world.
You still have it?
Yes. Used for pleasure so not set-up for racing.
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Watch out for rocks. Those you cant see are the worst.
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It has 3 ropes. One attaches to a little ring on the nose, another on the right side, and then another on the left side, which attach to the side of the boat.
If your going to sail at least learn the correct terms.
"It has 3 lines (rope is anything larger than 1" in diameter and is used for towing and morring of larger vessels, anything smaller is a line). 1 attaches to a ring on the bow (that's the pointy end of the boat) and the other two tie off on the port and starboard beam (port is left, starboard is right).
Also there is no such thing a nautical paint, there is marine grade paint though.
Not trying to bust on you, just trying to help teach you the correct terms. I'm a retired Coastie and I've been sailing since I was 12 years old. You did get your hands on a nice little boat there. Have fun with it!!! I miss my old Hobie 16 :( Never should have sold her.
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Not the best, but not a bad boat to learn in. Make sure you start learning when the wind and waves are on their best behaviour. As calm as possible is best with only small ripples and a gentle breeze is perfect for those small boats.
I hope you will enjoy it. I live and breathe sailing and have done so for almost 30 years.
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I COULD have put things into those terms hornet, but I wouldn't want to *cough cough* "confuse" anybody here...
Everything except line and marine paint, I completely understood.
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Not the best, but not a bad boat to learn in. Make sure you start learning when the wind and waves are on their best behaviour. As calm as possible is best with only small ripples and a gentle breeze is perfect for those small boats.
I hope you will enjoy it. I live and breathe sailing and have done so for almost 30 years.
Nonsense. The first time you take it out, it can be calm. Purposefully capsize the boat (possibly a few times) so you can learn how to right it.
After that, anytime sub 20 knots wind just take it out and rip. The Gods of Irony and the Gods of Sailing are the same thing. The wind will always pick up from painfully slow when you're heading in. The wind will always pick up when you're furthest downwind. The wind will always be the highest when you're trying to learn.
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Ignore that.
If you have never sailed before ignore lasers advice and take her out the first time in calm winds and seas and get a feel for how it handles
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If you've never sailed before, leave it on the beach until you find someone to teach you.
That said, Oogly appears to have sailed Optimists so sounds like he knows at least the basics. You'll want at least a bit of a breeze - a laser 2 is pretty cramped unless there's enough wind to get hiked out or on the wire.
Oogly - have you sailed a center mainsheet boat before?
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I'm still learning to sail. I have a 19' Macgregor, which is pretty much laughed at by real sailors. I think of it as my marine camper. and my defeator of outrageous gas prices.
I've got the mainsail, a 150% genoa, a storm jib and a spinnaker and a home aid sea anchor. I sail farther off shore than I probably should, but I pick and choose the weather. (AND Ive got a 40 horse Tahatsu hanging off the back :))
Good luck with the Lazer! I can tell that is a fun boat. I do seriously recommend mild weather for learning, life jacket, preferably with a tether harness esp if you are alone, and a 30' floating polypropaline line trailing behind, cause if you go overboard - the boat - she can keep on going without you. I'm sure that is not fun if you are far from shore...
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I'm still learning to sail. I have a 19' Macgregor, which is pretty much laughed at by real sailors. I think of it as my marine camper. and my defeator of outrageous gas prices.
I've got the mainsail, a 150% genoa, a storm jib and a spinnaker and a home aid sea anchor. I sail farther off shore than I probably should, but I pick and choose the weather. (AND Ive got a 40 horse Tahatsu hanging off the back :))
Good luck with the Lazer! I can tell that is a fun boat. I do seriously recommend mild weather for learning, life jacket, preferably with a tether harness esp if you are alone, and a 30' floating polypropaline line trailing behind, cause if you go overboard - the boat - she can keep on going without you. I'm sure that is not fun if you are far from shore...
Don't wear a tether. You'll most likely be sailing inland water ways. A dinghy, unlike a regular keelboat will not keep going if something happens, like if you fall over board. It will only serve to tie you to a rolling (capsizing) boat when it WILL capsize.
I thought it was understood to wear a lifejacket, but I shouldn't have thought that way. To begin with, get yourself a USCG Approved lifejacket, and never EVER wear those rectangular orange things. They'll make you look dorky.
The boom really really hurts. Even to this day I occasionally get whacked in the head. But I haven't really been in trouble from a hit since I was just starting out.
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Did he not say he's sailing on Lake Geneva? A USCG approved lifejacket might be hard to come by there.
Actually, what you want is really a buoyancy aid - not a lifejacket. A lifejacket will keep an unconscious person's head out of the water if fitted properly and inflated. A buoyancy aid will keep you afloat, but possibly face down. The thing is, its almost impossible to swim in a lifejacket and can really hamper getting up on to the daggerboard to right a capsize. A proper water sports buoyancy aid will allow you much more movement both in, and out of the water.
Lasersailor is right about the tether - bad idea in a dinghy. Ideally you should be sailing with safety boat cover - particularly as you're learning. Join a sailing club or go to a sailing school approved by your national sailing association. Also make sure you and your crew practice and can both carry out a figure-of-eight man overboard recovery maneuver. This is a primary requirement for the UK Royal Yachting Association level 2 certificate - the lowest level at which someone is certified to be able to sail a dinghy without supervision.
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Did he not say he's sailing on Lake Geneva? A USCG approved lifejacket might be hard to come by there.
Actually, what you want is really a buoyancy aid - not a lifejacket. A lifejacket will keep an unconscious person's head out of the water if fitted properly and inflated. A buoyancy aid will keep you afloat, but possibly face down. The thing is, its almost impossible to swim in a lifejacket and can really hamper getting up on to the daggerboard to right a capsize. A proper water sports buoyancy aid will allow you much more movement both in, and out of the water.
Lasersailor is right about the tether - bad idea in a dinghy. Ideally you should be sailing with safety boat cover - particularly as you're learning. Join a sailing club or go to a sailing school approved by your national sailing association. Also make sure you and your crew practice and can both carry out a figure-of-eight man overboard recovery maneuver. This is a primary requirement for the UK Royal Yachting Association level 2 certificate - the lowest level at which someone is certified to be able to sail a dinghy without supervision.
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d297000/e294573.asp
Lifejackets aren't like the generic orange things you keep stowed aboard a boat anymore.
(http://thumbs.shipstore.com/ss/images/ken/ken4270.jpg)
The difference is that USCG Lifejackets are rated to provide at least a certain amount of buoyancy. Buoyancy aids either can't pass the USCG tests, or have yet to be put up to the tests.
Anyway, should you choose to pick Buoyancy Aids to wear, you would have to store on your boat 1 USCG approved lifejacket per person using the boat. Since wearing a USCG lifejacket is no longer a problem, and you need it aboard anyway, don't bother with Buoyancy Aids.
Not to mention that any outfit you race with will require a USCG approved jacket.
If you are worried about it, buy a brightly colored lifejacket and a rescue whistle. Attach the one to the other and you suddenly become leagues easier to find should the absolute worst possible set of circumstances to ever happen does actually happen.
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I think we're disagreeing over terminology here. In the UK, a personal flotation device can only be properly referred to as a lifejacket if it will keep an unconscious person face up. Most devices worn by dinghy sailors do not meet that criteria and are therefore buoyancy aids. Buoyancy aids go through a government approval process and are rated based on the weight of the person they can safely keep afloat - so essentially the same as a USCG 'lifejacket'.
Suffice to say, Oogly should have a personal flotation device approved by the appropriate body in his locale, rated for his body weight and suitable for active water sports.