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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MiloMorai on July 08, 2008, 10:14:41 AM

Title: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: MiloMorai on July 08, 2008, 10:14:41 AM
http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=122520&article=3922475

Study suggests kids be given cholesterol-fighting drugs

Doctor's trying to prevent heart disease at an early age.
Monday, July 7, 2008
Cleveland Clinic Director of Adolescent Medicine Dr. Ellen Rome talks with Newsradio WTAM 1100's Carmen Angelo.

(Chicago) - The American Academy of Pediatrics says some children as young as eight should be given cholesterol-fighting drugs to help ward off future heart problems.

That’s a significant change from the group's previous policy, which said cholesterol-reducing drugs should only be considered in children older than 10 who have weight problems. But the academy's nutrition committee says mounting evidence shows that damage leading to heart disease begins early in life.

The committee also notes there's research showing cholesterol drugs are generally safe for children.

Under the new guidelines, the drugs would be given to children as young as eight who have too much so-called `bad' cholesterol.

The academy is also recommending cholesterol testing for children as young as two - and, for the first time, it's recommending that even one-year-olds should be given low-fat milk, in cases where overweight or obesity `is a concern.' One doctor on the panel acknowledges that could include virtually all children.


Statins are safe for children? They play hell with the body of adults!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2003/09/16/statins030916.html
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/transform.jsp?requestURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/cholesterol-reducing_drugs.jsp

Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: moot on July 08, 2008, 10:22:35 AM
Why not just exercise?
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 08, 2008, 10:26:01 AM
The problem we already have is our society thinks everything can be solved with a pill.  It's very unfortunate.  Eating right, excercising and nurturing this into a child's life will be much more effective in the long term although the drug companies will not profit as much from this old fashioned nurturing. ;)
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Nefarious on July 08, 2008, 10:26:36 AM
Why not just exercise?

You mean Physical Work? Kids these days can't do that.  :lol
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: moot on July 08, 2008, 10:37:29 AM
No kidding.. Healthy mind in a healthy body.. Common sense.  If they're raised right, kids of around that age ought to be raring for any opportunity to explode with physical effort.. "Pills" :lol
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Fulmar on July 08, 2008, 10:38:41 AM
That article isn't mentioning that it is being used in kid's with a family history of high cholesterol.  I agree with the use in this case, but outside that they should be implementing chain gangs for these kids :)
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: texasmom on July 08, 2008, 10:48:37 AM
Did y'all see that movie Wall-E... where everyone's humungo & sits 24-7 in those recliner chairs?  That must be the image of our children & children's children to these guys who are recommending this.  And you're right.  They must not also have any children of their own.  Mine don't stop moving from the time they wake up until the time they go to sleep, save a few minutes sitting at the table for each meal.  Even then... it's mostly planning with their brothers on what activity they'll be completing after the meal-break. 

How about substitute a bicycle for that pill... & some healthy meals at the table during their break-times. :)
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 11:16:59 AM
Give out pills :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Just get the kids out of the house, doesn't matter if they go willingly at least they are going to be exercising.

Being a father of six I know kids are all different. Some will exercises without even thinking about it (playing tag) others have to be made to get up before noon and do chores. Helps I live on a farm with endless thing to do. My mom always found "work" for me as a kid if I ever declared I was "Bored"

It is our slackard way of life now that demands a pill for everything :noid :cry
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Xasthur on July 08, 2008, 11:25:22 AM
How about substitute a bicycle for that pill... & some healthy meals at the table during their break-times. :)

Indeed, Txmom. One would hope that the next generation of parents are better educated when it comes to dietary requirements. Kids need to learn how to eat well before they can do it and that responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the parents.

Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 08, 2008, 11:35:18 AM
You mean Physical Work? Kids these days can't do that.  :lol
I have a 12 year old mowing the lawn and the 9 year old weeding the garden as I type. Genetically-related Slave labor is a wonderful thing!
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 11:44:42 AM
I hear you Rip :rofl :rofl :rofl I had to endure it so should my kids.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 08, 2008, 11:54:59 AM
That article isn't mentioning that it is being used in kid's with a family history of high cholesterol.  I agree with the use in this case, but outside that they should be implementing chain gangs for these kids :)

But considering that properly used pills account for 20-40% (guess) of proper use for each kind of drug?  Soon every kid would be on it even a couple are.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 12:02:12 PM
I am not a Scientologist or an Oat eater but I do believe in hard work and let nature cure what ails you.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: myelo on July 08, 2008, 12:09:40 PM
Eating right, excercising and nurturing this into a child's life will be much more effective in the long term ...

The problem is parents aren't teaching this. Almost every overweight, out of shape kid with a crappy diet has an overweight, out of shape parent with a crappy diet.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Joker on July 08, 2008, 12:20:43 PM
While healthy diet and exercise are cornerstones of treatment, and are certainly important for our kids, I do agree that in selected cases medications such as statins would be beneficial. In some cases lifestyle changes are just not enough, and prior to statins we had no real effective treatment for these folks.
This would have to be in children with a strong family history of high cholesterol as well as having a seriously abnormal lipid profile themselves. The treatment would have to be monitored closely, as the drugs are clearly not without side effects. The almost lifetime length of exposure in such cases would also be a new twist in lipid management.
Autopsy studies in the past ( Korean conflict IIRC ) did show significant plaque formation in young service men, so we know that this disease begins early in life.
Obviously, this is not something that most kids would need.

  Joker
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Jackal1 on July 08, 2008, 12:21:37 PM
http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=122520&article=3922475

But the academy's nutrition committee says mounting evidence shows that damage leading to heart disease begins early in life.


The mounting evidence is more than likely directly related to the kick backs from drug companies that the pediatricians will get.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 08, 2008, 12:26:48 PM
The problem is parents aren't teaching this. Almost every overweight, out of shape kid with a crappy diet has an overweight, out of shape parent with a crappy diet.
I agree that is a problem, but the answer, IMO, is not a pill.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 12:27:45 PM
To often we NEED a pill to fix us so the big companies tell us. I heard one the other day on TV that was a pill for helping shut ins come out. Some of the side effects included flatulence (farts) with a greasy discharge. How is that helping some one come out in public. :rofl :rofl :rofl
 
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: texasmom on July 08, 2008, 12:33:39 PM
*
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 12:42:20 PM
Much can be learned from Nature, Naturalpath, homopath, or ancient chinese medicines.  :aok

Most of us North Americans desended from peoples that were not well off and had to go many days with out a good meal, there fore our genes have adapted to storing food.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: moot on July 08, 2008, 12:47:49 PM
That genetic trait was present a while before then, I think
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: ChickenHawk on July 08, 2008, 01:43:30 PM
A pill does nothing but cover up the problem and reduce the symptoms.  Get off the high fat, empty carb diet and eat high nutrient food and exercise and it will reverse plaque build up in every single kid.  Works for adults too.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Rollins on July 08, 2008, 02:26:39 PM
I wish I had enough coffee in me or was lucid enough to make a good connection between this thread and the "Be Happier. Sterilize Yourself!" thread from a bit back.

Eh, no kids- no kid problems.  :aok
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 03:58:53 PM
I wish I had enough coffee in me or was lucid enough to make a good connection between this thread and the "Be Happier. Sterilize Yourself!" thread from a bit back.

Eh, no kids- no kid problems.  :aok

I feel sorry for you. When you get old there is going to be nobody there for you. :cry
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Joker on July 08, 2008, 04:00:52 PM
A pill does nothing but cover up the problem and reduce the symptoms.  Get off the high fat, empty carb diet and eat high nutrient food and exercise and it will reverse plaque build up in every single kid.  Works for adults too.

really?
every single kid?
and every adult also?
that's a pretty sweeping assertion...

Could you cite your source for this please?

While I agree that diet and exercise are extremely important, I'm not sure you can say that's all you need to do to reverse plaque formation.

  Joker


Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 04:03:46 PM
A pill does nothing but cover up the problem and reduce the symptoms.  Get off the high fat, empty carb diet and eat high nutrient food and exercise and it will reverse plaque build up in every single kid.  Works for adults too.

 :aok :aok

Joker I realize its not the cure all but Exercise can be fun. Wakeboarding, hunting, hiking, farming you don't have to be an athlete to exercise. Lord knows I am far from that :rofl:aok
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Joker on July 08, 2008, 04:48:47 PM
:aok :aok

Joker I realize its not the cure all but Exercise can be fun. Wakeboarding, hunting, hiking, farming you don't have to be an athlete to exercise. Lord knows I am far from that :rofl:aok

No question.. :aok...as I've said, I'm not debating the importance ( or the fun ) of exercise. I'm into powerlifting myself.

My point is that there are people with serious lipid abnormalities that can be treated effectively with the current crop of medications. The benefits of this are well documented. The article mentioned in the OP dealt with attempting to interdict the plaque formation process at an early age in those kids who are at high risk. Simply relying on homeopathy, lifestyle changes, nature, etc may not be enough to prevent these high risk individuals from going on to suffer from heart disease at a relatively young age.
If my kids ( or grandkids...lol ) had these lipid problems, I would ensure that their diet was healthy and that they were exercising frequently.
If that was not successful I wouldn't hesitate to get them on medical therapy for the problem.

Reading some of these posts shows that there are quite a few here who believe that ONLY good diet and adequate exercise will completely prevent this disease. That is not the case.
The folks who warn of the vile medications are generally glad to take them after that first heart attack.

  Joker
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 04:57:55 PM
My point is that there are people with serious lipid abnormalities that can be treated effectively with the current crop of medications. The benefits of this are well documented. The article mentioned in the OP dealt with attempting to interdict the plaque formation process at an early age in those kids who are at high risk. Simply relying on homeopathy, lifestyle changes, nature, etc may not be enough to prevent these high risk individuals from going on to suffer from heart disease at a relatively young age.
If my kids ( or grandkids...lol ) had these lipid problems, I would ensure that their diet was healthy and that they were exercising frequently.
If that was not successful I wouldn't hesitate to get them on medical therapy for the problem.
 
:aok I have had a problem my whole life being 6'1" and 300lbs and raising 6 kids with the same genes as me. I know that if they sit still they will want to. The medical problems can only be fixed with medication but for me and my kids that are between normal and having a medical problem, we have to work hard or risk having serious medical problems.  :aok
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: ink on July 08, 2008, 05:19:54 PM
Did y'all see that movie Wall-E... where everyone's humungo & sits 24-7 in those recliner chairs?  That must be the image of our children & children's children to these guys who are recommending this.  And you're right.  They must not also have any children of their own.  Mine don't stop moving from the time they wake up until the time they go to sleep, save a few minutes sitting at the table for each meal.  Even then... it's mostly planning with their brothers on what activity they'll be completing after the meal-break. 

How about substitute a bicycle for that pill... & some healthy meals at the table during their break-times. :)

sad to say TexasMom they are now giving out pills for how you describe your kids, mine are the same.

 ADD, or what not, its bull crap,

this is the Happymeal society, people are lazy, they want the teachers to teach them about the fundamentals of life, so they can say its someone else's fault.
they say you should not spank your kids (to me thats the biggest horse crap),
they let the TV teach them the facts of life, truly we are on a down ward spiral.
than again maybe its just me.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: ChickenHawk on July 08, 2008, 05:33:47 PM
really?
every single kid?
and every adult also?
that's a pretty sweeping assertion...

Could you cite your source for this please?

While I agree that diet and exercise are extremely important, I'm not sure you can say that's all you need to do to reverse plaque formation.

  Joker

Read "Eat to Live" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, follow it and see if I'm not right.

What you consider a healthy diet may not be healthy enough to reverse some cases of heart disease.
Title: Re: Give a kid a pill.
Post by: moot on July 08, 2008, 06:13:22 PM
No question.. :aok...as I've said, I'm not debating the importance ( or the fun ) of exercise. I'm into powerlifting myself.

My point is that there are people with serious lipid abnormalities that can be treated effectively with the current crop of medications. The benefits of this are well documented. The article mentioned in the OP dealt with attempting to interdict the plaque formation process at an early age in those kids who are at high risk. Simply relying on homeopathy, lifestyle changes, nature, etc may not be enough to prevent these high risk individuals from going on to suffer from heart disease at a relatively young age.
If my kids ( or grandkids...lol ) had these lipid problems, I would ensure that their diet was healthy and that they were exercising frequently.
If that was not successful I wouldn't hesitate to get them on medical therapy for the problem.

Reading some of these posts shows that there are quite a few here who believe that ONLY good diet and adequate exercise will completely prevent this disease. That is not the case.
The folks who warn of the vile medications are generally glad to take them after that first heart attack.

  Joker
You're right, but it's easy to get the impression that the paper, as reported, suggests that those pills were considered for any and all kids.  So as usual the news report distorts the original paper.