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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 10:26:07 AM

Title: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 10:26:07 AM
makes the scoring system a joke. :aok
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: whiteman on July 08, 2008, 10:38:35 AM
LWM=???, sorry I'm still asleep.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: SFCHONDO on July 08, 2008, 10:40:29 AM
It's always been a Joke, but nothing to make a thread about. Let those that want a high score do there thing. It's not hurting anyone and I always wonder why people care.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Bruv119 on July 08, 2008, 10:42:57 AM
are you coming to duxford on saturday or what?

how about reading some important threads rather than starting hopeless ones.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 11:05:51 AM
I'm sorry, but it just ruins the appeal of the game for me. Less "who cares about scores" because you suck donkey kong's nut sack please.

1st place doesn't mean your a dam good stick anymore, it means your a dam good milk runner in the less populated arena.

whiteman: LWM means Late War Main.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Lusche on July 08, 2008, 11:25:21 AM
1st place doesn't mean your a dam good stick anymore,

did it before?

BTW, you don't get to #1 without killing other players.. and lots of them quickly.
Milking does help with rank, but if all you can do is milking, your fighter/attack rank won't get any good.

Also the milking opportunities have been greatly diminished since EW & MW have their own ranking system



Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: uptown on July 08, 2008, 11:27:55 AM
makes the scoring system a joke. :aok

That sums it up.  :aok
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: DaveJ on July 08, 2008, 11:29:53 AM
did it before?

BTW, you don't get to #1 without killing other players.. and lots of them quickly.
Milking does help with rank, but if all you can do is milking, your fighter/attack rank won't get any good.

Also the milking opportunities have been greatly diminished since EW & MW have their own ranking system




Lusche, they might kill people, but they don't FIGHT. These are the guys who up Doras, BnZ for a quick kill and extend for a sector to get out of danger.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Lusche on July 08, 2008, 11:39:17 AM
Lusche, they might kill people, but they don't FIGHT. These are the guys who up Doras, BnZ for a quick kill and extend for a sector to get out of danger.

I was referring to milkrunning in less populated arena, which is what the original posting was about. And you can't do what you described there. Not enough targets, too long transit times.

Also, if you only get for the quick kill and extend for a whole sector, you won't get any good fighter rank either, because your kills/time will suck.Your better k/d only helps so much.  ;)
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 11:58:05 AM
Lusche, I'm talking about Attack/Bomber/GV score here my friend.

You can do what you want in the less populated arena without being sniffed at by an enemy player, such as:

Bomb strat after start to death to improve your bomber/attack score.
Take base after base to improve your bomber/GV score.
Have a little cruise in a PT boat to a town and rocket it to death to massively improve your GV score.

After you've done all off the above you can go into the bigger populated arena and vultch your tits off for 1st place.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Baitman on July 08, 2008, 11:58:45 AM
It could help bomber score :noid doesn't matter how long you are in the air
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Lusche on July 08, 2008, 12:07:53 PM
Lusche, I'm talking about Attack/Bomber/GV score here my friend.

You can do what you want in the less populated arena without being sniffed at by an enemy player, such as:

Bomb strat after start to death to improve your bomber/attack score.
Take base after base to improve your bomber/GV score.
Have a little cruise in a PT boat to a town and rocket it to death to massively improve your GV score.

After you've done all off the above you can go into the bigger populated arena and vultch your tits off for 1st place.

Have a nice day.


My answer to this is: So what?

You're talking about this as if it's something new. Milking was always a part of this.. nothing has changed in the past few years.

When we only had 1 MA players did exact the same things. Flying at non-prime time with 90 players on a big map was making milking not more difficult than now milking a small map with 40 players. Happily bombing a start target as soon as an enemy zone base was captured, switching sides to take other milking opportunities. It was the same as it's today.

Don't look at other people's rank and you will be more happy in game ;)
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: BaldEagl on July 08, 2008, 12:09:15 PM
You can milkrun/stat pad just as easily in the most populated LWA.  Population doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 08, 2008, 12:09:35 PM
I'm sorry, but it just ruins the appeal of the game for me. Less "who cares about scores" because you suck donkey kong's nut sack please.

1st place doesn't mean your a dam good stick anymore, it means your a dam good milk runner in the less populated arena.

whiteman: LWM means Late War Main.

Funny, 1st place never meant you were a good stick.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: whiteman on July 08, 2008, 12:10:45 PM
I'm sorry, but it just ruins the appeal of the game for me. Less "who cares about scores" because you suck donkey kong's nut sack please.

1st place doesn't mean your a dam good stick anymore, it means your a dam good milk runner in the less populated arena.

whiteman: LWM means Late War Main.

TY, working on couple hours of sleep
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Guppy35 on July 08, 2008, 12:13:44 PM
Funny, 1st place never meant you were a good stick.


ack-ack

Agreed.  I don't ever remember attaching the #1 ranking to the names I'd come across that were great sticks.  Those guys learned early on that score meant little.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 12:38:08 PM
My answer to this is: So what?

You're talking about this as if it's something new. Milking was always a part of this.. nothing has changed in the past few years.

When we only had 1 MA players did exact the same things. Flying at non-prime time with 90 players on a big map was making milking not more difficult than now milking a small map with 40 players. Happily bombing a start target as soon as an enemy zone base was captured, switching sides to take other milking opportunities. It was the same as it's today.

Don't look at other people's rank and you will be more happy in game ;)

I’m not talking about milk running Lusche, there is a difference between that phrase and stat padding I believe.

With the old MA, off peak numbers use to be a little under 100. In LWB I’ve seen off peak numbers as little as half a dozen. So your wrong sir, there is a massive difference . For example when you took up a buff in the MA, even in off peak hours you would most likely have an enemy 190/109 coming to say hello. The fact that you can fly just over the ack and bomb strat after strat without anyone giving a toss because they are doing exactly the same thing is the point I’m getting at here mate. The same applies to every other aspect of the scoring system bar Fighter, which you need to go into the furballs and kill stuff that fights back.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 12:42:09 PM
Agreed.  I don't ever remember attaching the #1 ranking to the names I'd come across that were great sticks.  Those guys learned early on that score meant little.

Well if score means little in Aces High 2, doesn't that mean the system on which it is bases is flawed ? I thank you :aok
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Lusche on July 08, 2008, 12:44:08 PM
Sorry, I've been there and done that. I can fly stats padding buff sorties in both MA's without difference. The number of players doesn't really matter that much.

And again, just under 100 players in the old MA with large map meant even less player density as 40 players on a small map as it's mostly the case now in LWB. A large map has 4 times the area of a small one. It was incredibly easy to pad your stats back then too.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 12:49:35 PM
Sorry, I've been there and done that. I can fly stats padding buff sorties in both MA's without difference. The number of players doesn't really matter that much.

And again, just under 100 players in the old MA with large map meant even less player density as 40 players on a small map as it's mostly the case now in LWB. A large map has 4 times the area of a small one. It was incredibly easy to pad your stats back then too.

"The numbers off players don't really matter that much" they mean everything or the old MA wouldn't have been split in the 1st place.

P.S I saw the giant bellybutton island map in the LWB arena last tour. So try again  :aok
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Guppy35 on July 08, 2008, 12:58:35 PM
Well if score means little in Aces High 2, doesn't that mean the system on which it is bases is flawed ? I thank you :aok

Sure.  Unless you have every player do the same thing, in the same plane, for the same amount of time, no scoring system will really mean anything.  But since so many folks get locked in on a number or a rank, it's probably the best that can be expected.  And since in time most of us figure out that it doesn't really mean anything, we get over it :)
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: MajIssue on July 08, 2008, 01:02:44 PM
Lusche, I'm talking about Attack/Bomber/GV score here my friend.

You can do what you want in the less populated arena without being sniffed at by an enemy player, such as:

Bomb strat after start to death to improve your bomber/attack score.
Take base after base to improve your bomber/GV score.
Have a little cruise in a PT boat to a town and rocket it to death to massively improve your GV score.

After you've done all off the above you can go into the bigger populated arena and vultch your tits off for 1st place.

Have a nice day.


My question would be... WHY does it lessen the enjoyment YOU get out of the game? I am far more worried about the "pair of high Ponys" above my furball than about who is milkrunning to improve one dimension of their game score. "Nuff Said" :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Lusche on July 08, 2008, 01:04:22 PM
Well I saw the giant bellybutton island map in the LWB arena last tour. So try again  :aok

And?

I thought I have made it clear that you always could milk with ease, you still can do it now regardless of being in high or low numbers arena and what map is on. Two nights ago I was jolly milking in the most populated MA with more than 300 players on without any problem ;)

Players always did milk/pad, do milk/pad and will do milk/pad in future. Nothing much has changed, and your basic assumption that rank number means less these day as it once did is just wrong.

There are several ways to play concerning stats & ranks.

1. Completely ignore them. Choosing to follow that outdated burgeois "fun" concept seems to work for many players, especially old people like Guppy35 ;)

2. Watching your own stats, try to improve them. Try to get "better" all while keeping in mind that different was to play and/or different rides result in different numbers. For example a K/D of 3.0 means something different in a 262 only tour than in a Hurry I only tour.

3. Play the rank game. Try to get #1.. that means not only watching your own score but those of other competing players. Can resemble more work than playing, can actually massively reducing playing choices ("cant fly plane XX becasue my rank would suffer") and sometimes results in people getting VERY upset about being shot down... or about other players way to play, which in turn  often results  in angry forum postings ;)
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 01:11:02 PM
Sure.  Unless you have every player do the same thing, in the same plane, for the same amount of time, no scoring system will really mean anything.  But since so many folks get locked in on a number or a rank, it's probably the best that can be expected.  And since in time most of us figure out that it doesn't really mean anything, we get over it :)

I’m not going to lie, that was properly the most sense I have ever read on this forum. :aok.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: SFCHONDO on July 08, 2008, 01:13:13 PM
If I were you, I'd just pretend score in this game does not even exist. Forget about it even being viewable and just go fly and have fun.  :D
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: BaldEagl on July 08, 2008, 01:16:48 PM
For example when you took up a buff in the MA, even in off peak hours you would most likely have an enemy 190/109 coming to say hello. The fact that you can fly just over the ack and bomb strat after strat without anyone giving a toss because they are doing exactly the same thing is the point I’m getting at here mate.

A few months ago, after building a new computer, I had a bug where everytime I tried to bomb a strat I would get disco'd.  I tried for a couple of weeks to find what was causing it and the only way to test after each attempt was to go into the MA and fly a strat run as it wouldn't happen off-line.

I flew 55 sorties over strats in enemy territory at peak hours in the LWAs, mostly in Bostons, was discoed 36 times (the first 12 were in AR234's, then I switched to Bostons) and had one, count them, one, enemy fighter engage me during all those sorties.  (TG for that as I needed to get to the target and drop to test or I'd have wasted all that time for nothing).

I did finally find and fix the bug BTW.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: SlapShot on July 08, 2008, 01:25:11 PM
Well if score means little in Aces High 2, doesn't that mean the system on which it is bases is flawed ? I thank you :aok

ummm ... yes.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 01:28:02 PM
Summery from my point of view Lusche, as I cannot go on all day mate.

It's a little easier to get a higher GV/Attack/Bomber rank on the same map with a lot fewer people to put a spanner in the works. I was only using buffing starts as an example here guys, the same applies to taking bases and all that good stuff aswell.

The funny thing is that I’ve only played for score once in the almost 4 years I’ve played this game believe it or not. I just wanted to voice my opinion on the whole scoring system.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Simaril on July 08, 2008, 01:29:12 PM
Kazaa,

There is absolutly, completely, nothing new about the score system and the way it can be manipulated. Period.

There have been no substantive changes since I've been here, way back to AH1. Getting a good ranking has always meant filling in the boxes (each score category) to the best of your ability, much more than it has meant a meaningful measure of skill.

Now it definitely takes skill to get in the top 10 -- but there are plenty of equally (or more) skilled players who couldn't care less, and who rank in the 100s because of how they fly and what kind of sorties they choose.

And I'd wager you can't come up with a better system. Stats systems will always fall short of the accurate ranking you imply you'd like to see -- which is why they don't give the World Series title to the team with the best combination of ERA, Runs Scored, and Batting Average.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 01:36:32 PM
Well said Simaril. :aok

I remember Wilbuz never use to play for rank, and he was the most "skilled" pilot I've ever faced without a shadow of a doubt.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 08, 2008, 01:43:44 PM
Why have a score system if it doesn't really work in the 1st place, why just not have stats page and be done with it ?:aok
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Guppy35 on July 08, 2008, 02:16:14 PM
Why have a score system if it doesn't really work in the 1st place, why just not have stats page and be done with it ?:aok

Because some folks need an artificial incentive to keep playing.  If anything it's a security blanket for some people.  They need the recognition.  It's the same as the guy who flies past a 1 v 1 on his way to the vulch.  The 1 v 1 is something he's fearful of losing, so he heads for something he knows he can do with a minimum risk, which is vulching a field.  He then flies back and gets his 'attaboys' for landing his 6 vulches and believe's he's a cartoon fighter pilot :)

The greater challenge and a better indicator of his cartoon flying ability would have been the 1v1, but there is no visible 'attaboy' for losing a 1v1 or even winning it if that's the only kill.  A lot of folks need that visible indicator, artificial or not, to keep them motivated and believing they are succeeding.

What you hope is they get past it and find the challenge and satisfaction within the game for other reasons beyond artificial visible recognition from the masses.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: BaldEagl on July 08, 2008, 02:33:27 PM
Why have a score system if it doesn't really work in the 1st place, why just not have stats page and be done with it ?:aok

Because it's a game and games always have either scores, or some other means of determining a "winner".
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: hammer on July 08, 2008, 03:37:08 PM
Because it's a game and games always have either scores, or some other means of determining a "winner".
1) The winner is the one who is left standing after fighting another person / persons.

2) You can only win if the sides were even or you were out-numbered. If you have the numbers advantage, you can have fun and you can get the kill but you don't win.

3) If you kill a building, you can have fun but you don't win.

4) If your side "wins" the war and #2 applies, you reset the map, earned a few perks (hint - you can earn more in the same amount of time by fighting!) but you didn't win.

5) The only person who knows you won is you and the person you fought. Maybe a few around you. Do that enough times and you will earn some respect.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: NoBaddy on July 08, 2008, 06:51:34 PM
Because it's a game and games always have either scores, or some other means of determining a "winner".

....and we have a winner!!!! :rock
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Simaril on July 08, 2008, 07:01:54 PM
...snip...

5) The only person who knows you won is you and the person you fought. Maybe a few around you. Do that enough times and you will earn some respect.

Regards,

Hammer


Path to gameplay respect that makes the most sense to me.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: SFCHONDO on July 08, 2008, 09:29:39 PM
1) The winner is the one who is left standing after fighting another person / persons.

2) You can only win if the sides were even or you were out-numbered. If you have the numbers advantage, you can have fun and you can get the kill but you don't win.

3) If you kill a building, you can have fun but you don't win.

4) If your side "wins" the war and #2 applies, you reset the map, earned a few perks (hint - you can earn more in the same amount of time by fighting!) but you didn't win.

5) The only person who knows you won is you and the person you fought. Maybe a few around you. Do that enough times and you will earn some respect.

Regards,

Hammer

Good points, but to me you are a winner if you are having fun while playing the game.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Bear76 on July 08, 2008, 09:45:21 PM
It's always been a Joke, but nothing to make a thread about. Let those that want a high score do there thing. It's not hurting anyone and I always wonder why people care.
I.E., lay off my squaddies, lol j/k :lol
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: SFCHONDO on July 08, 2008, 10:15:14 PM
I.E., lay off my squaddies, lol j/k :lol

OK...but that means I will have to focus all my attention on you then...LOL..

you ready for that?   :D :D

edit: or did you mean my scorepotato squadies....Yeah there lamers....LOL    :lol
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: hammer on July 09, 2008, 07:18:24 AM
Good points, but to me you are a winner if you are having fun while playing the game.
These are the words of one who is enlightened and at peace with one's self (probably from staring at your avatar!). Those lost on the path to enlightenment think you must "win" to have fun.

Much like Buddhism, the path to enlightenment in AH is filled with many deaths and rebirths as a new cartoon plane.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Gixer on July 09, 2008, 07:22:15 AM
Because it's a game and games always have either scores, or some other means of determining a "winner".

:lol

This isn't Space Invaders with your initials on the machine at the corner shop. 


<S>...-Gixer

Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: BaldEagl on July 09, 2008, 08:36:33 AM
Because it's a game and games always have either scores, or some other means of determining a "winner".

I'n not saying this is right or wrong.  Just stating a fact.  Name a game where there is no score and/or no mechanism for determining a winner.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Kazaa on July 09, 2008, 08:39:14 AM
hi
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: BaldEagl on July 09, 2008, 08:58:09 AM
hi

Why did you edit your post?  I saw it before you did.
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Gixer on July 09, 2008, 09:15:02 AM
I'n not saying this is right or wrong.  Just stating a fact.  Name a game where there is no score and/or no mechanism for determining a winner.

As a game I consider this to be a role playing game. Except instead of increasing your characters ability through levels/score like WoW you are improving your own personal skills & abilities with and against other players. AH is all about interaction with others and how you choose to do it. And that is something that can't be gauged by any score mechanism.

So as far as naming a game, I'd name this one. The score aspect is just here for the "gamers" to entertain themselves.


Anyway, that's how I've always looked at it.


<S>...-Gixer
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: vonKrimm on July 09, 2008, 09:54:00 AM
I akin playing AH to owning a boat.  There is frustration (not landing your kills), envy (someone else shoots down all three bombers w/o a scratch while your engine gets smoked) & coveting (everyone with more perks than you) in both; not to mention that both are a hole into which money and time are poured. :devil

Neither is likely get you a promotion at your job, give you the body of Adonis, or help you meet someone you can take home to meet mother; but both sure are  FUN to do.  Now go have fun & stop worrying about scorepadding.

Skadoosh
Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Captfish on July 09, 2008, 10:23:03 AM
I akin playing AH to owning a boat.  There is frustration (not landing your kills), envy (someone else shoots down all three bombers w/o a scratch while your engine gets smoked) & coveting (everyone with more perks than you) in both; not to mention that both are a hole into which money and time are poured. :devil

Neither is likely get you a promotion at your job, give you the body of Adonis, or help you meet someone you can take home to meet mother; but both sure are  FUN to do.  Now go have fun & stop worrying about scorepadding.

Skadoosh

 :rofl :rofl


 help you meet someone you can take home to meet mother;

I thought that's what the O'club is for!! :confused:

Title: Re: Stat padding in the less populated LWM
Post by: Yknurd on July 09, 2008, 07:23:34 PM
People who start threads about other people's scores are a joke.