Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Anaxogoras on July 10, 2008, 12:38:20 PM

Title: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Anaxogoras on July 10, 2008, 12:38:20 PM
Wayyy back, when the JU88 was introduced to warbirds 1.11, it had a MG131 in the dorsal mount for defense.  Now I see that the AH version has two little pee-shooters instead.  Anyone know why?  It sure would improve the appeal of this bomber for the LW types if it had the MG131 instead.
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Lusche on July 10, 2008, 12:53:47 PM
We do have the Ju-88 A4, a relatively early version. Unlike later models it was dive-bombing capable (hence we do have divebrakes) but the MG 131 was introduced in later versions. I will try to look up which 88 did feature 131's for the first time.

However, for low level attacks it was possible to change the front MG to a 20mm MG FF without any problems. Would like to see that option when our  Ju 88 get's an overhaul someday ;)


EDIT: I have to correct my above statement concerning the MG 131. While more prevalent in later versions, a small number of late production Ju 88A-4's did indeed have MG 131 in dorsal position (and an even smaller number did replace the nose MG 81  with a flexible MG 131 too). But I guess HTC did choose the rather typical armament variant.
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Charge on July 10, 2008, 01:22:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SiBIC-jjW8&feature=related

It was argued if only the A14 variant had a MG-FF in the nose but in this film you can seen a Finnish A4 with MG-FF. It had either the MG-FF or the level bombing sight. AFAIK there is also a list available which lists MG-FF belonging to A4 delivery package. If it was fixed the pilot could aim and fire it but also the bombardier could release the gun and aim and fire it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ju88#cite_note-31

-C+
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Pannono on July 11, 2008, 12:39:33 PM
oh noes if we get 13mms in dorsal there goes my easy kills :/
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Noir on July 11, 2008, 12:53:03 PM
oh noes if we get 13mms in dorsal there goes my easy kills :/

Right now I can only dream of it...but the 13mms have a price, weight.
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Krusty on July 11, 2008, 12:56:08 PM
The 12.7mm in the tail of the IL2 doesn't save it much, does it?

The 2x 50cal in the Boston doesn't save it much, does it?

The 1xMG131 instead of 2xMG17 wouldn't make too much of an impact (only 33% more power in that one position, maybe slight increase in efficiency not having to jump from left to right gun) isn't going to make it a super killer.

IMO I like the 2xMG17 setup because it's more interesting, and looks a lot more like JU88s I mentally picture when I hear the name Junkers.
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Motherland on July 11, 2008, 12:59:32 PM
I thought talking about the MG81Z in the ventral tray not the two behind the cockpit?

Ah never mind dorsal not ventral.
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Pannono on July 11, 2008, 01:01:02 PM
The 12.7mm in the tail of the IL2 doesn't save it much, does it?
i dont even know of anytime ive shot down/been shot down by a Il2 tail gun
reasons its not used: lack of ammo, vulnerable tail gunner

The 2x 50cal in the Boston doesn't save it much, does it?
they're 2 .303s mounted on the top with a very restricted fire arc, not 2 .50s
boston has a great climb rate and great speed for a reason :D use it to get high and fast
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Anaxogoras on July 11, 2008, 01:09:17 PM
Since I've actually shot down attacking fighters in the JU-88, the 13mm dorsal would make a difference.  Far more often the attacker sits on your 6 and destroys all three bombers suffering only an oil leak, and I'm a decent shot with the defensive guns.  The 13mm would at least keep them honest.
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Nilsen on July 11, 2008, 01:17:53 PM
Since I've actually shot down attacking fighters in the JU-88, the 13mm dorsal would make a difference.  Far more often the attacker sits on your 6 and destroys all three bombers suffering only an oil leak, and I'm a decent shot with the defensive guns.  The 13mm would at least keep them honest.

bingo
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Denniss on July 11, 2008, 01:20:20 PM
The Ju 88 used MG 15, MG 81 or MG 81 Z but never MG 17.
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Krusty on July 11, 2008, 01:22:07 PM
Whatever, it's all variations of the same gun in different installations  :D
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Motherland on July 11, 2008, 01:22:18 PM
D'oh! I meant MG81Z :o
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: RMrider on July 12, 2008, 01:54:29 PM
heehee, we put a heavier gun in the dorsal and we are going to change from a 500 ft/min climb to a 250 ft/min climb.  :lol
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Motherland on July 12, 2008, 01:58:34 PM
heehee, we put a heavier gun in the dorsal and we are going to change from a 500 ft/min climb to a 250 ft/min climb.  :lol
You're replacing two guns with one, with the added bonus of taking out all of the extra mounting equipment (weight) for the second gun... if the weight didn't stay equal I'd imagine it would only get lighter.

I don't remember whether the guns in the back were MG15s or MG81s... if they were MG15s the combined weight was 25 kgs and if they were MG 81s the combined weight would be 13 kgs. The MG 131 weighs 16.5 kgs.
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: RMrider on July 12, 2008, 05:01:51 PM
Yea thats true..had no idea if the heavier gun plus ammo would be a larger load than the 2 smaller ones plus ammo. ill take your word for it though.  :aok
Title: Re: JU-88A4 dorsal MG131
Post by: Pannono on July 15, 2008, 11:46:52 AM
The Ju 88 used MG 15, MG 81 or MG 81 Z but never MG 17.
bb guns nonetheless