Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wingnutt on July 10, 2008, 09:32:58 PM
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:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
if you cross paths, get into it twisting and turning, and end up coming face to face.. and get yours shot off..
just keep your mouth shut..
that is all.
:furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
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If one was to use even a tiny bit of logic they would see how this statement makes no sense at all...
and yes it's still a HO.
donkey
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Ummm how can their be a question about what a Ho is ........HO= Head On, your going at your opponent and he is coming at you its real simple :rolleyes:
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:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
if you cross paths, get into it twisting and turning, and end up coming face to face.. and get yours shot off..
just keep your mouth shut..
that is all.
:furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
If you're face to face after the initial merge you both did something wrong and you should not take the shot.
Oh, and shooting someone after the immelman that usually follows the initial merge is just as bad.
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It ALWAYS takes two to HO... er... tango. Um yeah. You know what I'm trying to say, donchya? ;)
What annoys me is that I get "HO'd" and lose due to a collision and in a few short minutes the guy that just HO'd me and won via his plane held together is shouting his guts out on 200 after losing in a HO. "YOU HO'ing SOB!!!" "You *&^%, nice HO!" etc. :confused:
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Ok so let me get this
no shot on the first merge
no shot on the first immelman
no shot to clear your team mates six (pick)
only dweebs fly this
only Dweebs fly that
This flying lark is ....hmmmm
I'm just going to up GV's I think ...one rule ...I see you I shoot you :D
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Ok so let me get this
no shot on the first merge
no shot on the first immelman
no shot to clear your team mates six (pick)
only dweebs fly this
only Dweebs fly that
This flying lark is ....hmmmm
I'm just going to up GV's I think ...one rule ...I see you I shoot you :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Ok so let me get this
no shot on the first merge
no shot on the first immelman
no shot to clear your team mates six (pick)
only dweebs fly this
only Dweebs fly that
This flying lark is ....hmmmm
I'm just going to up GV's I think ...one rule ...I see you I shoot you :D
I agree it sounds like no matter what you do someone is going to :cry
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if you cross paths, get into it twisting and turning, and end up coming face to face.. and get yours shot off..
just keep your mouth shut..
that is all.
That is only in duels.
I agree it sounds like no matter what you do someone is going to :cry
Only losers cry, and it is because they can't admit that they screwed up their merge, or got out maneuvered as the fight moved on, or just plain suck at SA.
Planes are free, just grab another one and try again.
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1st of all very rarely is a remerge ever a HO. Now in a 1 on 1 vs a known foe I will not take a "face shot"....which I define as anything in the 20-25% off the nose "cone". Now going beyond that the simple reality is that judging your merge/post merge realities is an art form. Alot of the time in the MA I find guys who are pulling hard into the remerge and getting popped in the canopy and then complaining about a "HO".
The simple reality is that they flew an inferior merge and then pushed a bad situation to worse and literally forced me to shoot them prior to there actually getting around. 2nd to this is the guy with superior E that goes vertical on you to the point he stalls out totally and then is upset that you had dropped your nose and then pulled up into his stall to pop him in the nose as he flopped over.
My opinion is has been and will be that if you got "HO'd it is almost invariably your fault.
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Ok so let me get this
no shot on the first merge
no shot on the first immelman
no shot to clear your team mates six (pick)
only dweebs fly this
only Dweebs fly that
This flying lark is ....hmmmm
I'm just going to up GV's I think ...one rule ...I see you I shoot you :D
:rofl :aok
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:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
if you cross paths, get into it twisting and turning, and end up coming face to face.. and get yours shot off..
just keep your mouth shut..
that is all.
:furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
disagree.
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I'm just going to up GV's I think ...one rule ...I see you I shoot you :D
so your going to spawn camp? :noid
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When I'm in the 190F-8 and already engaged with a bandit (and maybe still carrying ords for gv's below me), I HO on any second bandit that comes into the picture. Well, maybe I wouldn't do it against a Typhy, but it sure worked well against an LA-7 the other night.
Bottom line is, when faced with a faster, superior maneuvering aircraft, the head-on is de rigueur.
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In bubi's defense, he's saying that turning the outcome of the merge into a coin-toss is no way to maximize your win %.
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disagree.
long story short I came face to face with a guy in scissors and shot him as he passed under me head on..
abusive PMs till squelch.
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When I'm in the 190F-8 and already engaged with a bandit (and maybe still carrying ords for gv's below me), I HO on any second bandit that comes into the picture. Well, maybe I wouldn't do it against a Typhy, but it sure worked well against an LA-7 the other night.
Bottom line is, when faced with a faster, superior maneuvering aircraft, the head-on is de rigueur.
I don't think he's talking about multiple opponents.
What I'm saying is that if a shot is taken here-
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/stillaho.jpg)
It's a cheap HO.
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Did you see my edit?
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Yeah...
I think my second post explains what I'm trying to say better though.
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long story short I came face to face with a guy in scissors and shot him as he passed under me head on..
abusive PMs till squelch.
The generally accepted difference in AH between a "front quarter shot" and what is refered to with distain as a HO, is that a HO requires a show of mutual gun solutions. If you were in opposing circles, and he passed under you, then he likely wouldn't have had guns. You had guns, he didn't, case dismissed :)
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If you're face to face after the initial merge you both did something wrong and you should not take the shot.
Oh, and shooting someone after the immelman that usually follows the initial merge is just as bad.
Just a side note. If I'm the bogie, and you take your nose off of me for too early of a pre-turn, and you're sloppy with your positioning, expect to be shot. That's not a cheap shot, that's letting you know you're "avoiding the HO" incorrectly ;)
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Yeah...
I think my second post explains what I'm trying to say better though.
Not fair. You have that great graphic. :P
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Wingnuts right, some guys will complain about anything, especialy a long fight that degenerates into a face off at low alt, somtimes it just went that way, so stop the whining, <------------good thread wingnut, dont take no guff off the guys in here, they just want to belittle you in front of the other kiddies in here so the 200 daily whine can go on unabated....keep a stiff upper lip brother.
<S> ROOKS best HO mongers of all lol.
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Not fair. You have that great graphic. :P
Hey- I made it :P
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so your going to spawn camp? :noid
you'll have to camp yourself to find out....I see you I kill you :D
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IMO anything goes after the opening merge.
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Man, I can't believe how dead this horse is. You'd think after all these years there would be nothing left to beat...
This is the same thread as last week, last month, last year. Let's move on for $#%!'s sake
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Wingnuts right, some guys will complain about anything, especialy a long fight that degenerates into a face off at low alt, somtimes it just went that way, so stop the whining, <------------good thread wingnut, dont take no guff off the guys in here, they just want to belittle you in front of the other kiddies in here so the 200 daily whine can go on unabated....keep a stiff upper lip brother.
Not picking on you, but this quote reminded me of something. Not too long ago, I had 2 spits on a rope throwing tracers in my general direction, and I see a third bogie getting ready to pick me. I evaded, he loops over and I turn back into him. I had the drop on him. Gunsight on him d800+ and he hadn't completed his reverse yet. I knew who the bogie was, and he knew who I was. We both approached each other from d600 nose on till point blank range, with a slow closure rate. He waited until the last possible split second and pulled a sucker punch of a HO. It was so last second the hits didn't even register until we had passed the merge. He of course heard my opinion about it when my hands were free to type.
At this point, enter the know nothing dork, who presumes to enlighten me about Head-ons. Well as evidenced by the numerous, perhaps hundreds of threads on this topic, there are quite a bit of hairsplittings and caviots on what's a "cheap HO" and what isn't. So really a third party has no first hand knowledge about an alleged incident, and is incapible of adding anything of value to the conversation. Where was I going with this? Oh, yea... Shuddup and mind you own freakin business in the peanut gallery :)
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Alot of the time in the MA I find guys who are pulling hard into the remerge and getting popped in the canopy and then complaining about a "HO".
+1!
So many just can't get off the wep, chop throttle and hit flaps if they have 'em. They just race around the outside and complain when you nail em as they cross your path the second time.
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Yeah, I mean, after the first time, it's like you're buddies and all ;)
A Ho is just a friend you haven't "merged with" yet. :lol
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...Planes are free...
Planes are free?!? BOOZER!!!!!! Give me my money back!!!!!
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+1!
So many just can't get off the wep, chop throttle and hit flaps if they have 'em. They just race around the outside and complain when you nail em as they cross your path the second time.
I usually just send them a GK on 200 if it actually was.
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I won't fire on the initial merge. After that though, if your plane is in my gunsight, I don't care what aspect angle I'm looking at, I'm hitting the trigger. At that point the fight is on and anything goes. If I kill you it's not because of a HO it's because I got guns on faster than you did.
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If you're face to face after the initial merge you both did something wrong and you should not take the shot.
Why not?
My regards,
Widewing
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Ok so let me get this
no shot on the first merge
no shot on the first immelman
no shot to clear your team mates six (pick)
only dweebs fly this
only Dweebs fly that
This flying lark is ....hmmmm
I'm just going to up GV's I think ...one rule ...I see you I shoot you :D
but you're a dweeb if ya take a wirble or a tiger :rofl :rofl
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The simple truth is that 95%+ of the time the the guy who's dieing is thinking this...
(http://az-dsl.com/snaphook/headon.jpg)
but is actually getting this...
(http://az-dsl.com/snaphook/canopyshot.jpg)
Now in the 1st picture it isnt actually a HO either since I dont have guns on the con (nor do I want to)....but it certainly fits the general conception of a "bad" face shot. What the 2nd picture shows is a properly managed remerge, at no time does the con have any offensive posture or opportunity of any kind. He simply failed to recognize that he had in fact lost the merge and pushed a bad position someohw expecting that I'm supposed to give him a "redo" because he got a look at me thru the top of his cockpit (well before I turned him into red mist at least)...
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Why not?
My regards,
Widewing
Well, for a practical reason, because if you fail to blow him up, you're colliding.
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:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
if you cross paths, get into it twisting and turning, and end up coming face to face.. and get yours shot off..
just keep your mouth shut..
that is all.
:furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
If your "fighting" someone and all you get is a face shot, you suck and should be called a HO twit!! :aok
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These threads remind me of a fight I got into in High School (many years ago). "No kicking I called it". Unless I have con(s) on my six, I will not fire on a ho shot. If I see any tracers coming from my opponent on the ho, he can expect to see my 50s raining upon him.
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The simple truth is that 95%+ of the time the the guy who's dieing is thinking this...
(http://az-dsl.com/snaphook/headon.jpg)
but is actually getting this...
(http://az-dsl.com/snaphook/canopyshot.jpg)
Now in the 1st picture it isnt actually a HO either since I dont have guns on the con (nor do I want to)....but it certainly fits the general conception of a "bad" face shot. What the 2nd picture shows is a properly managed remerge, at no time does the con have any offensive posture or opportunity of any kind. He simply failed to recognize that he had in fact lost the merge and pushed a bad position someohw expecting that I'm supposed to give him a "redo" because he got a look at me thru the top of his cockpit (well before I turned him into red mist at least)...
I'm guilty of calling that a HO.
For me, it happens, usually, when I'm deeply into a fight, thumb dancing all over the hat switch. I'll be pulling hard to get my nose around, looking forward up, see the tracers and feel like I'm getting shot in the face when actually I'm getting shot in the canopy. I forget that I'm not looking straight through my own prop because I'm so into the fight.
I think I've come to terms with the HO. I try not to get upset when it happens to me. Whether I take the HO shot pre or especially post-merge just depends on how much fun I'm having. The best times I've ever had are fights that went several merges without either of us taking a HO shot, but rather, fighting for something behind the 3-9 line. I understand that you can't always expect that in the MA, but when it happens it's pretty sweet.
I still remember a fight with drfritz that I had like this.
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If your "fighting" someone and all you get is a face shot, you suck and should be called a HO twit!! :aok
so forcing the overshoot with scissors and shooting someone on the cross when you cut inside them is dweebery..
roger, gotcha..
Idiot.
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Well, for a practical reason, because if you fail to blow him up, you're colliding.
Very rarely. Almost never in my case. The reason is that there is always some divergent angle present. Kick rudder, squeeze the trigger and rake them as they go by...
My regards,
Widewing
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^
^
^
^
Yea, what he said.
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Very rarely. Almost never in my case. The reason is that there is always some divergent angle present. Kick rudder, squeeze the trigger and rake them as they go by...
My regards,
Widewing
I think this is the most overlooked aspect of this "debate". It's almost never actually a true "head on". If we look at the lower picture I posted of the canopy shot the other guy never at any time had any hope of a shot period. At WW's level it would be pretty rare that he's going to force a bad situation or give up E or angles to chase a poor shot.
If you look at the ponys cockpit you can clearly see two things, I have 2 or more notches of flaps deployed and am on the gas (manifold is 35 or higher). So to achieve this shot window I had to be off the gas early enough to get on the flaps and slow enough that even with the gas back "on" the flaps hadnt retracted yet. So this shot window was achieved much earlier in the fight and is a "worked for" guns solution. If we look further you can see that my lift vector is transitioning from lead to lag and is very close to pure vertical while his lift vector is already carrying him to a nose down position. The position is consistant with good flying and even if the shot window is missed I've actually "won" the remerge and am in position to control the fights next few moves. Had the other guy been able to get around a bit quicker I would have easily been able to convert to lag and use the vertical to avoid any shot window.
The simple truth is that you have an obligation to defend against a reasonable front quarter shot, you dont get a "free pass"....
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Very rarely. Almost never in my case. The reason is that there is always some divergent angle present. Kick rudder, squeeze the trigger and rake them as they go by...
My regards,
Widewing
I understand what you're saying, especially in a MA context. But do remember that you're the guy who posts the flight information about tightest possible turning radius, aircraft performance, etc. :) how many people can really match yours? Certainly some, but they'd be rare.
For others, especially in the DA (making the following point fairly moot), it's not as rare. If both guys are experienced enough, they'll recognize that if they both continue on a certain flight path, they'll risk collission, and will try to avoid it.
If only one guy tries to avoid that, and the other guy presses and shoots, well, I suppose we've all done it... But I also suppose we didn't feel all that great about it afterward.
FWIW, I don't blame Humble for taking the shot in the second picture - that's fair game and one I'd take any day. Of course I'd probably never hear the end of it, but them's the chips :D
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hehe...
We both know you wouldnt give me that shot:)
If we're "remerging" and one of us sees we're late you begin to deny the shot and go offensive...its part of the natural evolution to a rolling scissors type fight.
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so forcing the overshoot with scissors and shooting someone on the cross when you cut inside them is dweebery..
roger, gotcha..
Idiot.
Who's the idiot, read the title to the thread. :aok
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Yep,,, I said it,, Im guilty of HOing and will be for as long as you turn towards me.... and yes it takes two to HO, so if you turn into me YOUR a HO too.
Start flying straight and stop turning you HO's
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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and yes it takes two to HO,
Two to merge, one to HO. noobs are not allowed to change things simply because they feel like it.
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Two to merge, one to HO. noobs are not allowed to change things simply because they feel like it.
Just did,,, and if you ever fly against this newb I will have you crying in the corner calling me a Ho newb.... ouch it really hurts.
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Just did,,, and if you ever fly against this newb I will have you crying in the corner calling me a Ho newb.... ouch it really hurts.
Actually, you'd miss the HO because I wouldn't allow it, then quickly find yourself in the tower.
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noobs are not allowed to change things simply because they feel like it.
Eww, I like that one :aok
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Two to merge, one to HO. noobs are not allowed to change things simply because they feel like it.
:rofl
Dadsgun just got ownt!
:salute
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I personally do not HO is the MA's, however i do expect to be HO's on every near head on merge. I love it when you meet someone head on, in a poor position to evade the ho, and the enemy doesn't take the shot. That normally means Im in for a good fight.
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:salute
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I have to semi agree with the statement that you shouldnt shoot at an opponent HO until after the initial merge.
IE. Two planes each flying hell bent for leather towards each other, PASS each other and either loop, turn or otherwise try to out position each other. If one of them gets a snap shot off and it just happenes to be HO then let the chips fall where they may. If you lost, get a new plane and try again, if you won try to be humble about your victory and move on...either way MOVE ON! All this crying about what is a HO is ridiculous. Two planes flying towards each other....Thats HO. If you cant figure that out then maybe you should go play barbies dream house with your dress on or something.
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Just did,,, and if you ever fly against this newb I will have you crying in the corner calling me a Ho newb.... ouch it really hurts.
Still standing,,, :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
if you cross paths, get into it twisting and turning, and end up coming face to face.. and get yours shot off..
just keep your mouth shut..
that is all.
:furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
Mo, meet Ron. That is all!
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People who HO are weak spineless cowards who lack ACMs :aok
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Why dredge up this old thread?
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I fight Gentlemans fight. No HOes at all.