Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Stixx on July 11, 2008, 07:07:43 AM
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Personally I feel that learning a second language can be a benefit. I traveled through Europe, courtesy of Uncle Sam, in the mid seventies and part of my preparations for each trip was to learn enough of the host country's language to get by with. But to mandate that our school children learn Spanish is going too far. As one poster noted in a different forum I frequent,
"If these boards are any indication, our public school system cannot even teach basic English to its students."
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/09/obama-your-kids-should-learn-spanish/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/09/obama-your-kids-should-learn-spanish/)
He complains that European visitors to this country come with a working knowledge of not only their native tongue, but several other languages as well. And yes, I'm aware that European schoolchildren are required to learn another language.
My apologies to the junior senator from Illinois, but what he fails to realize is that most likely 70 to 80% of our population will venture no further than several hundred miles from home during their entire lifetime. Whereas these European visitors, due to the size and nature of Europe, can visit a foreign country with a simple train ride.
If he is so unaware of such a fundamental difference as that, then he has no business running this country.
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I think he was on GMA and he was asked a question about Iran and he went to us speaking Spanish. He didnt even answer the question. :O
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Way way way back when I was in high school, 2 years of a foreign language was required to graduate. Sounds reasonable to me.
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Sounds reasonable. So long as English is taught as the primary language.
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I'm glad I learned some Spanish in High School. I fail to see anything wrong with encouraging Americans to learn a second language.
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Personally I feel that learning a second language can be a benefit. I traveled through Europe, courtesy of Uncle Sam, in the mid seventies and part of my preparations for each trip was to learn enough of the host country's language to get by with. But to mandate that our school children learn Spanish is going too far. As one poster noted in a different forum I frequent,
"If these boards are any indication, our public school system cannot even teach basic English to its students."
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/09/obama-your-kids-should-learn-spanish/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/09/obama-your-kids-should-learn-spanish/)
He complains that European visitors to this country come with a working knowledge of not only their native tongue, but several other languages as well. And yes, I'm aware that European schoolchildren are required to learn another language.
My apologies to the junior senator from Illinois, but what he fails to realize is that most likely 70 to 80% of our population will venture no further than several hundred miles from home during their entire lifetime. Whereas these European visitors, due to the size and nature of Europe, can visit a foreign country with a simple train ride.
If he is so unaware of such a fundamental difference as that, then he has no business running this country.
european children are taught english starting in the 4th grade. my friend from germany, was talkingt abut this to me.
as for teaching our kids spanish? i think it should be an option,. they have been doing this for awhile now. my neice is learnign it in florida. my brother is pissed that she(she's 8) doesn't have a choice in the matter.
i was just tlaking on the phone last night to a friend of mine that used to be an over the road trucker. he quit for reasons not needed here........
he lives in texas. he figured he'd get a job driving local truck routs, or teaching. guess what? they ALL want him to have a working knowledge of spanish. so it seems that the guys dont have to learn english to drive 80k trucks on our roads, they just have to learn to drive them. who needs to read the road signs anyway? and talk to ploice and others? screw it!!
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Knowing other languages is fine, but to mandate spanish just to accomodate the border jumpin scum..... Screw that!
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I personally refuse to learn spanish for the principle of it. If you live in America speak english. If you can't speak the language you don't belong here.
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Knowing other languages is fine, but to mandate spanish just to accomodate the border jumpin scum..... Screw that!
Agree whole heartedly. What happen to French, Italian, German....etc. That tells you right there that he has no plans to address the immigration problem. Keep working and pay into Social Security so none of the benifits will be there when you need them....... :mad:
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I personally refuse to learn spanish for the principle of it. If you live in America speak english. If you can't speak the language you don't belong here.
wow so as a protest you choose to remain ignorant? spanish is an important language and it will benefit the person who is bilingual giving that person a leg up in the marketplace. we neeed to understand that the north american union will probably occur within the next fifty years possibly sooner, with it the need for spanish as well as french.
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I personally refuse to learn spanish for the principle of it. If you live in America speak english. If you can't speak the language you don't belong here.
What principle is that? Ignorance?
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por supuesto que si.
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Way way way back when I was in high school, 2 years of a foreign language was required to graduate. Sounds reasonable to me.
:aok
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What I got out of it was that as a general principle we (Americans) need to be better educated. I think it is fair to say people who speak two or more languages tend to be more intelligent than those who know only one langaue. I could be wrong on his particular intent but I have always felt this way.
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learning to read and write in even one language may be too much for our public schools and their saintly teachers these days.
lazs
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My apologies to the junior senator from Illinois, but what he fails to realize is that most likely 70 to 80% of our population will venture no further than several hundred miles from home during their entire lifetime. Whereas these European visitors, due to the size and nature of Europe, can visit a foreign country with a simple train ride.
If he is so unaware of such a fundamental difference as that, then he has no business running this country.
Next steps will be to recognize Spanish as an official language, forcing all government agencies to keep English and Spanish versions of all official records, placing a massive $$$ and logistical burden on the Civil Service. All Civil Service jobs will REQUIRE high proficiency in both languages as a condition of employment. New hires will HAVE to take language testing to prove they are "suitable" for the job. Existing employees will go off for a paid year (or more) of language training on your tax dollars.
You will not be able to work for the IRS, the police, the military, the CIA etc unless you speak English and Spanish fluently. Ditto for the medical industry.
Moving forward, laws will be enacted where all signs shown in public will have to be bilingual - with Spanish first, double the font size of the English translation. Those who break these language laws will get fined by the Language Police. At first it will be enacted in large area where Spanish speakers outnumber English speakers, but it will spread to a state wide level...
Far fetched ? Not at all... it's all happened in Canada (with English and French).
Of course if you're a fan of massive/expensive bureaucracy + non-traditional America (like Obama is), then it's a winning situation.
...oh and you WILL embrace the Metric System, and WILL learn to hate your precious little firearms.
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Way way way back when I was in high school, 2 years of a foreign language was required to graduate. Sounds reasonable to me.
Not only to graduate but also to get into university.
True stixx. But there is a double standard. A French person doesn't have to be as fluent in English as the English person has to be fluent in French.
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Not only to graduate but also to get into university.
True stixx. But there is a double standard. A French person doesn't have to be as fluent in English as the English person has to be fluent in French.
This is the case in Canada BTW - native French speaking people WITHOUT English names are given a ceremonial "pass" when it comes to government jobs - it's the sneaky English majority that must be heavily scrutinized when it comes time to test language proficiencies.
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Knowing other languages is fine, but to mandate spanish just to accomodate the border jumpin scum..... Screw that!
The Emir of the Democratic Party, his Excellency, Barrack Hussein Obama, has issued a fatwa that your children must speak
Spanish ...and by the beard of the prophet, God willing, they will!
Please support Brother Obama's jihad for the US Presidency come November !
ALLAHUWAKBAR !
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learning to read and write in even one language may be too much for our public schools and their saintly teachers these days.
lazs
Amen
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I think it is a great idea, Spanish makes the most sense, It will also help with the learning of more languages in the future.
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Better off to learn Chinese, then we could read the directions to everything we buy. :rofl
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How do you say "Don't put the Hot Wheels fire truck in your mouth, son. It's coated with lead." in Chinese?
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Credits in a foreign language are already required if you want to go to college, unless you have exceptionally high SAT scores.
and there's more people in China that speak English than in America. Wouldn't worry about that.
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english = chinese
broken = sum ting wong
:rofl
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english = chinese
broken = sum ting wong
:rofl
OR BETTER YET......
why dis not work?
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learning to read and write in even one language may be too much for our public schools and their saintly teachers these days.
lazs
It would appear lazs2 got one of my points.
Say what you want but in my opinion the learning of a second language should be strictly voluntary.
For my second point, listen closely not to what Obama says, but how he says it.
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If I were going to move to and live in Mexico, I would consider it my obligation to learn Spanish.
If I moved to France, I would consider it my obligation to learn French.
If I moved to Vietnam, it would be my obligation to learn Vietnamese.
If I moved to England, I would feel obligated..............well to become dull and boring. :)
Move to the U.S., learn English or go home.
Pretty simple.
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There's nothing wrong with learning a language, provided the student gets to choose what they want to learn.
However, in more and more districts, spanish is being taught to younger children BECAUSE of the tide of hispanic illegal immigrants incoming to this country. This is what's wrong. That we are teaching our children spanish, spending our money, time and resources to cow tow to a people that are here illegally. Last I heard "Spanish" class starts in the 3rd grade.
The funny part (and I won't tell my school district) is that they are teaching Castillian Spanish. That is to say proper spanish from proper Spain. The spanish being spoken by middle and south americans really isn't castillian spanish, making the whole thing rather worthless.
It's much like learning German, when your target audience is English. Sure, some of the words are the same, but they are two different languages.
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Way way way back when I was in high school, 2 years of a foreign language was required to graduate. Sounds reasonable to me.
Sounds reasonable to me as well, as long as there is an option of the second language.
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It's much like learning German, when your target audience is English. Sure, some of the words are the same, but they are two different languages.
You can blame the French for that. :D
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Last I heard "Spanish" class starts in the 3rd grade.
How about earlier than that via television with Dora the Explorer and her brother Diago.
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Aw hell, if we're blaming TV why not start with Sesame Street, going back to the 80s. :P
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There's nothing wrong with learning a language, provided the student gets to choose what they want to learn.
However, in more and more districts, spanish is being taught to younger children BECAUSE of the tide of hispanic illegal immigrants incoming to this country. This is what's wrong. That we are teaching our children spanish, spending our money, time and resources to cow tow to a people that are here illegally. Last I heard "Spanish" class starts in the 3rd grade.
The funny part (and I won't tell my school district) is that they are teaching Castillian Spanish. That is to say proper spanish from proper Spain. The spanish being spoken by middle and south americans really isn't castillian spanish, making the whole thing rather worthless.
It's much like learning German, when your target audience is English. Sure, some of the words are the same, but they are two different languages.
I have been told by Spanish teachers and friends that are fluent speakers of the Mexican dialect that proper 'Spain' Spanish is different, but not as different as you described.
The comparison I've been told is that it would be like someone coming up to you and speaking English the way it would be spoken 400 years ago, like Shakespeare or the like. So, proper 'Spain' Spanish to a Mexican isn't so much a different language, but if you were to speak it to a Mexican it would sound very awkward and dated.
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The funny part (and I won't tell my school district) is that they are teaching Castillian Spanish. That is to say proper spanish from proper Spain. The spanish being spoken by middle and south americans really isn't castillian spanish, making the whole thing rather worthless.
It's much like learning German, when your target audience is English. Sure, some of the words are the same, but they are two different languages.
You do realize that Castillian Spanish is really no different than the Spanish that is spoken around the world with a few colloquial differences. It's not "two different'" languages as you so ignorantly claim. Believe me, I would have no troubles understanding and speaking to a Spaniard and he would have no troubles understanding me with my "Mexico City" Spanish. The only Spanish speakers I have troubles with are the Cubans and that's only because they speak so damned fast and not the dialect of Spanish they speak.
ack-ack
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The comparison I've been told is that it would be like someone coming up to you and speaking English the way it would be spoken 400 years ago, like Shakespeare or the like. So, proper 'Spain' Spanish to a Mexican isn't so much a different language, but if you were to speak it to a Mexican it would sound very awkward and dated.
And whoever told you that is incorrect. Castillian Spanish doesn't "sound like they're speaking like they spoke 400 years ago". It's like the Queen's English and American English, some dialect and colloquial differences but the same language.
ack-ack
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English is the world's current Lingua Franca. Any continent you go, you will find a good number of people who speak/understand it. It might not have the most numbers of speakers, but I'd bet if I was speaking any other language in the world, and wanted to learn a 2nd to help me out, English would be the one that would help me most.
As someone who speaks English for a native tongue, I chose to study German. I figured for what I wanted to do, Spanish would be completely useless. All the Spanish speaking peoples I'd be interacting with would already know English for the reasons outlined in my first paragraph, and I don't plan on interacting too much with those who don't.
I guess I'll just end by saying Spanish is a very pretty language, as is Polish.
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You do realize that Castillian Spanish is really no different than the Spanish that is spoken around the world with a few colloquial differences. It's not "two different'" languages as you so ignorantly claim. Believe me, I would have no troubles understanding and speaking to a Spaniard and he would have no troubles understanding me with my "Mexico City" Spanish. The only Spanish speakers I have troubles with are the Cubans and that's only because they speak so damned fast and not the dialect of Spanish they speak.
ack-ack
I apologize. I was merely told by someone who learned proper spanish that it was very different when used in South America. They were there for a decent amount of time, so they obviously must be wrong.
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My language of choice:
http://www.nana.com/media/inupiaq_language.htm
I'll be learning it with my children soon. And my oldest is taking German, which I'm able to help him with a bit (well... only for practice... I don't know any of the structural rules that well). I wish I'd begun languages with them sooner.
I don't object at all to the languages being required in school. However, the money would be far better spent if they would use it to double the amount of teachers, cut the class sizes in half... so teachers are not cranking the kids through on a check-the-block mentality out of a need to, but actually have an environment to teach effectively.
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I apologize. I was merely told by someone who learned proper spanish that it was very different when used in South America. They were there for a decent amount of time, so they obviously must be wrong.
Yes, they are wrong. My uncle is from Spain, when he comes to visit I have no troubles speaking to him in my "Mexico City" Spanish and he has no troubles understanding or speaking to me in his Castillian Spanish. Though, I sometimes poke fun at him for having a lisp when he speaks. There is no real fundemental differences, only in dialect and colloquialism.
Saying that someone speaking Castillian Spanish is going to have a tough time being understood by another Spanish speaker from any Latin American country is like saying an American will not be able to understand someone speaking the Queen's English.
ack-ack
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Knowing other languages is fine, but to mandate spanish just to accomodate the border jumpin scum..... Screw that!
My thoughts exactly. I will learn any language under the sun hapily, EXCEPT Spanish. Why? Because I don't plan on going to any spanish countries, and I damned sure want to be able to order a burger in ENGLISH.
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Since no one has posted this yet:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/68146 (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/68146)
Seems like a reasonable point of view.
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Yes, they are wrong. My uncle is from Spain, when he comes to visit I have no troubles speaking to him in my "Mexico City" Spanish and he has no troubles understanding or speaking to me in his Castillian Spanish. Though, I sometimes poke fun at him for having a lisp when he speaks. There is no real fundemental differences, only in dialect and colloquialism.
Saying that someone speaking Castillian Spanish is going to have a tough time being understood by another Spanish speaker from any Latin American country is like saying an American will not be able to understand someone speaking the Queen's English.
ack-ack
spot on akak
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You do realize that Castillian Spanish is really no different than the Spanish that is spoken around the world with a few colloquial differences. It's not "two different'" languages as you so ignorantly claim. Believe me, I would have no troubles understanding and speaking to a Spaniard and he would have no troubles understanding me with my "Mexico City" Spanish. The only Spanish speakers I have troubles with are the Cubans and that's only because they speak so damned fast and not the dialect of Spanish they speak.
ack-ack
tome o terceiro paso voce pode falar e entender portuguese si voce quizer.
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"...wants our children to learn Spanish"
i understand that you have Mexico on the south border, but why just spanish? give them the posibility to learn even more languages and maybe become very good in at least one. I dont see any problem here ? Children learn
much faster, this age is perfect for that.
Hey, i will support my children to learn 2 more aditional languages, you can gain only a plus and no minus on that.
looks like the topic is more about Mr. Obama ;) this days no wonder.
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I despise people who won't learn the language of the land they're living in. I simply reply "Your Mamma is what?", even when I know what they said. I've lived in several different countries over the years and have always attempted to speak their language, even if poorly. If they make an attempt to speak some English, I'm much more forgiving and helpful.
It is not my responsibility to speak anything other then my native tongue in my native country.
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And whoever told you that is incorrect. Castillian Spanish doesn't "sound like they're speaking like they spoke 400 years ago". It's like the Queen's English and American English, some dialect and colloquial differences but the same language.
ack-ack
Verdad! Right on!
As a Spanish speaker and world traveler, it really irks me when folks say it's sooo different. I always give that analogy as well. I have found it's the dummies that say it's different.
We were in Spain for 2 weeks in June. One week of that was spent in Galicia where they speak Gallego. It helped that Portuguese is my third language because there is a lot of similarities and crossover. Gallego almost seems like a mix of Portuguese and Spanish.
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Well, you have to order a cheesesteak in English, when in Philly. http://www.phillyfuture.org/node/3607 (http://www.phillyfuture.org/node/3607)
When my children can come home and speak English properly, then we can worry about dumping more languages into their curriculum. God forbid the teachers in this country are forced to do too much teaching.
Most children do not even know the proper rules for language, these days. They are almost the same no matter which language it is. Correct grammar would be a great beginning. :aok
Maybe then we can teach them a new language to apply those rules to.
I am not opposed to learning a second or even third language. My grandparents, in their old world pride, spoke a lot of German in the house as they raised me. They also, in their new world gratitude, learned to speak English as it was the tongue of their new home.
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Well, you have to order a cheesesteak in English, when in Philly.
Why is it I'm suddenly thinking of the Hardee's commercial where they had two guys in Philly talking about the new Philly Cheesesteak Thickburger with their conversation subtitled?
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Why is it I'm suddenly thinking of the Hardee's commercial where they had two guys in Philly talking about the new Philly Cheesesteak Thickburger with their conversation subtitled?
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Hardee's wouldn't know what a cheesesteak was if it flew up their arse like a torpedo.
I find it funny when people get pissed about the whole situation. It is actually quite funny.
You have Joey Vento, child of Italian immigrants, who speaks Italian and English. He is insisting that his customers order in English, not that his employees learn Spanish.
Certain elements here in the city of brotherly love felt that he was discriminating against Hispanics. Not true. If you have ever seen the line at Geno's after an Eagles/Sixers/Phillies/Flyers game, you would see why he likes to keep things running like a machine and very quickly. It could go for 3 blocks and more, sometimes.
Guess what? Joey won.
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When i was in high school we had the choice between Italian, French, or Spanish.
I chose Italian, and passed by the skin of my teeth.
To me, it would have been better to give us an option for either a 2nd language, or some kind of technical class.
Basic electriconics, basic automotive, basic carpentry, you know something that i might of actually taken interest in.
That was 17 years ago so i don't know what they do now.
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Yes, they are wrong. My uncle is from Spain, when he comes to visit I have no troubles speaking to him in my "Mexico City" Spanish and he has no troubles understanding or speaking to me in his Castillian Spanish. Though, I sometimes poke fun at him for having a lisp when he speaks. There is no real fundemental differences, only in dialect and colloquialism.
Saying that someone speaking Castillian Spanish is going to have a tough time being understood by another Spanish speaker from any Latin American country is like saying an American will not be able to understand someone speaking the Queen's English.
ack-ack
We had some Spaniards here for a week a couple of years ago, working with us on a project their company out of Madrid was trying to launch here. As you say, no more problems understanding each other than an Englishman and an American would have - just "sounds" different.
And, yeah, the lisp thing is funny as hell. Even worse, the physical action that produces the lisp is disconcerting. I couldn't keep myself from staring when they were constantly holding the tip of their tongues out between their front teeth. It took me a while to be sure the bastards weren't fudgepackers trying to come on :)
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Personally I feel that learning a second language can be a benefit. I traveled through Europe, courtesy of Uncle Sam, in the mid seventies and part of my preparations for each trip was to learn enough of the host country's language to get by with. But to mandate that our school children learn Spanish is going too far. As one poster noted in a different forum I frequent,
"If these boards are any indication, our public school system cannot even teach basic English to its students."
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/09/obama-your-kids-should-learn-spanish/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/09/obama-your-kids-should-learn-spanish/)
He complains that European visitors to this country come with a working knowledge of not only their native tongue, but several other languages as well. And yes, I'm aware that European schoolchildren are required to learn another language.
My apologies to the junior senator from Illinois, but what he fails to realize is that most likely 70 to 80% of our population will venture no further than several hundred miles from home during their entire lifetime. Whereas these European visitors, due to the size and nature of Europe, can visit a foreign country with a simple train ride.
If he is so unaware of such a fundamental difference as that, then he has no business running this country.
We learn our own language, English and must choose between French, German or Spanish for the third.
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When i was in high school we had the choice between Italian, French, or Spanish.
I chose Italian, and passed by the skin of my teeth.
To me, it would have been better to give us an option for either a 2nd language, or some kind of technical class.
Basic electriconics, basic automotive, basic carpentry, you know something that i might of actually taken interest in.
That was 17 years ago so i don't know what they do now.
Just 10 years ago, in my school district you had the options of Italian, French, Spanish, & German... all available up to a 4th year course. There was also shop (basic carpentry), automotive repair (with tools, lifts, and real cars), intro to engineering (electrical, structural, mechanical), cosmetology, criminal justice, and more computer courses from graphic design up to coading.
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Verdad! Right on!
As a Spanish speaker and world traveler, it really irks me when folks say it's sooo different. I always give that analogy as well. I have found it's the dummies that say it's different.
We were in Spain for 2 weeks in June. One week of that was spent in Galicia where they speak Gallego. It helped that Portuguese is my third language because there is a lot of similarities and crossover. Gallego almost seems like a mix of Portuguese and Spanish.
it sure is