Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: angelsandair on July 14, 2008, 11:58:32 AM
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Although the XP-39E proved to be disappointing, the USAAF was nevertheless interested in an even larger aircraft based on the same basic layout. Even before its first flight, the USAAF placed an order on 27 June 1941 for two prototypes of an enlarged version powered by the same V-1710-47 engine. The new design was given the designation XP-63 and serials were 41-19511 and 41-19512. A third prototype was also ordered, 42-78015, this one featuring the Packard V-1650, the U.S.-built version of the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine.
The XP-63 was larger in all dimensions than the Airacobra. The laminar flow wings increased the overall span by 4.33 feet to 38.33 feet. The engine was fitted with a second supercharger supplementing the normal single-stage supercharger. At higher altitudes when additional boost was required, a hydraulic clutch would engage the second supercharger, adding 10,000 feet to the service ceiling. A larger four-bladed propeller was also standardized. A persistent complaint against the Airacobra was that its nose armament was not easily accessible for ground maintenance, and in order to cure this problem, the XP-63 airframe was fitted with larger cowling panels.
In September of 1942, even before the prototype flew, the USAAF ordered it into production as the P-63A (Model 33). The P-63A's armament was to be the same as that of the then-current P-39Q, a single 37 mm cannon firing through the propeller hub, two .50 caliber machine guns in the upper nose, and two .50 caliber machine guns in underwing gondolas.
The first prototype, 41-19511, flew for the first time on 7 December 1942, the first anniversary of Pearl Harbor. It was destroyed on 28 January 1943 when its landing gear failed to extend. The second prototype, 41-19512, followed 5 February 1943. It too was destroyed, this time due to an engine failure. The Merlin-engined 42-78015 was later delivered with another Allison instead, as the Merlins were primarily needed for the P-51 Mustang. Nevertheless the new -93 version of the Allison had a war emergency rating of 1,500 hp at sea level, making this prototype one of the fastest Kingcobras built, attaining 421 mph at 24,100 feet.
Deliveries of production P-63As began in October 1943. The USAAF concluded the Kingcobra was inferior to the Mustang, and declined to order larger quantities. American allies, particularly the Soviet Union, had a great need for fighter aircraft, however, and the Soviets were already the largest users of the Airacobra. Therefore, the Kingcobra was ordered into production to be delivered under Lend-Lease. The Soviet Government sent a highly experienced test pilot, Andrey G. Kochetkov, and an aviation engineer, Fiodor Suprun, to the Bell factories to participate in the development of the first production variant, the P-63A. Initially ignored by Bell engineers, Kochetkov's expert testing of the machine's spin characteristics (which led to airframe buckling) eventually led to a significant Soviet role in the development. Amusingly, after flat spin recovery proved impossible, and upon Kochetkov's making a final recommendation that pilots should bail out upon entering such a spin, he received a commendation from the Irving Parachute Company.
P-63A-8, SN 269261, was extensively tested at TsAGI in the world's largest wind tunnel at the time. Soviet input in the development was significant. With the USSR being the largest buyer of the aircraft, Bell was quick to implement their suggestions. The vast majority of the changes in the A sub-variants were a direct result of Soviet input, e.g. increased pilot armor and fuselage hardpoint on the A-5, underwing hardpoints and extra fuel tanks on the A-6, etc. The Soviet Union even experimented with ski landing gear for the P-63A-6, but this never reached production. Most significantly, Soviet input resulted in moving the main cannon forward, favorably changing the center of gravity, and increasing its ammo load from 30 to 58 shells for the A-9 variant. The P-63 had an impressive roll rate, besting the P-47, P-40, N1K2 and P-51 with a rate of 110° per second at 275 mph.[2]
[edit] Operational service
USAAF P-63A USAF photoAir Transport Command ferry pilots, including U.S. women pilots of the WASP program, picked up the planes at the Bell factory at Niagara Falls, New York, and flew them to Great Falls, Montana and then onward via the Alaska-Siberia Route (ALSIB), through Canada, over Alaska where Russian ferry pilots, many of them women, would take delivery of the aircraft at Nome [3] and fly them to the Soviet Union over the Bering Strait. A total of 2,397 such aircraft were delivered, out of the overall 3,303 production aircraft (72.6%).[4]
By a 1943 agreement, P-63s were disallowed for Soviet use against Germany and were supposed to be concentrated in the Soviet Far East for an eventual attack on Japan. However, there are many unconfirmed reports from both the Soviet and German side that P-63s did indeed see service against the Luftwaffe. Most notably, one of Pokryshkin's pilots reports in his memoirs published in the 1990s that the entire 4th GvIAP was secretly converted to P-63s in 1944, while officially still flying P-39s. One account states they were in action at Königsberg, in Poland and in the final assault on Berlin. There are German reports of P-63s shot down by both fighters and flak. Nevertheless, all Soviet records show nothing but P-39s used against Germany.
In general, official Soviet histories played down the role of Lend-Lease supplied aircraft in favor of local designs, but it is known that the P-63 was a successful ground attack aircraft in Soviet service. The Soviets developed successful group aerial fighting tactics for the Bell fighters and P-39s scored a surprising number of aerial victories over German aircraft, mostly Stukas and bombers but including many advanced fighters as well. Low ceilings, short missions, good radios, a sealed and warm cockpit and ruggedness contributed to their effectiveness. To pilots who had once flown the tricky Polikarpov I-16, the aerodynamic quirks of the mid-engined aircraft were unimportant. In the Far East, P-63 and P-39 aircraft were used in August Storm, the Soviet invasion of Manchukoku and northern Korea, where a Soviet P-63A downed a Japanese fighter aircraft, an Army Nakajima fighter, Ki-43, Ki-44 or Ki-84, off the coast of North Korea. Sufficient aircraft continued in use after the war for them to be given the NATO reporting name of Fred. Some American pilots also reported seeing P-63s in service with North Korea during the Korean War.[citation needed]
In 1945, 114 later models were delivered to the French Armée de l'Air, but they arrived too late to see service in World War II. They however saw service during the First Indochina War before being replaced in 1951.
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 32 ft 8 in (10.0 m)
Wingspan: 38 ft 4 in (11.7 m)
Height: 12 ft 7 in (3.8 m)
Wing area: 248 ft² (23 m²)
Empty weight: 6,800 lb (3,100 kg)
Loaded weight: 8,800 lb (4,000 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 10,700 lb (4,900 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Allison V-1710-117 liquid-cooled V-12, 1,800 hp (1,340 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 410 mph (660 km/h) at 25,000 ft (7,620 m)
Range:
Combat: 450 mi (725 km)
Ferry: 2,200 mi (3,540 km)
Service ceiling 43,000 ft (13,100 m)
Rate of climb: 2,500 ft/min (12.7 m/s)
Wing loading: 35.48 lb/ft² (173.91 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.20 hp/lb (0.34 kW/kg)
Armament
1× 37 mm M4 cannon firing through the propeller hub
4× 0.50 in (12.7mm) M2 Browning machine guns (two in the nose, two in the wings)
The P-63 IIRC could out run the La-7 on the deck. And the A-9 had 58 37mm cannon bullets instead of the regular 30 as they moved it foward. The P-63 would be a great plane in AHII because of how fast it is on the deck. And supposedly, one of the 2nd leading allied ace's squadron had been issued them.
(remember I got this from wikipedia, so please correct me if I'm wrong.) :aok
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" COBRASTOCHKA" dear lil' cobra
P63 King cobra was known as the tank of the skies to the russians and was primarily used as a Ground attack platform against all sorts of troops and GVs. It was dearly loved for it's survivability in a nasty nasty theater of operations :)
This plane would make a nice addition
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It could out run the Lghey-7 on the deck and was pretty fast at high alts. :rock
plus, you gotta be a good shot with those 37s... :noid
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bump.
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(I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but they cant say "search" next time :D )
BUMP!! :D
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Would definitely need to be perked.
410 mph at 20k :O
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Check out this quote from widewing. You'll love this. :P
If one considers 420 mph at 21,000 feet poor performance. Let's face it, 95% of all engagements in AH2 are below 20,000 feet.
The answer to the La-7 is the P-63A Kingcobra. Similar climb and low-level speed, but the P-63 is nearly as maneuverable as the FM-2. Add four .50 cal MGs and a 37mm cannon.
These two fighters would be very equal except that the La-7 could not afford to turn-fight with the P-63, and the P-63 has a big range advantage, plus the ability to haul a 500 pound bomb (or a drop tank).
So, how fast does the P-63A climb? Well, for comparison, let's look at the F6F-5. It requires 7.7 minutes to climb to 15,000 feet. In contrast, the P-63A can get to 25,000 feet in 7.3 minutes! The P-51D requires near twice as long (13 minutes) to reach 30,000 feet.
When the Soviets first began flying the P-63, they found the tail to be weaker than that of the P-39. Bell developed a kit for strengthening the tail and Bell technicians made field modifications to those planes in service. That change was immediately incorporated into the production line as well.
Pilots who flew the P-63, and had time in the other major U.S. types, generally agreed that the P-63 was far and away the best performer at low to medium altitudes. Not surprising, the pilots flying it at the Joint Fighter Conference differed from rave reviews to outright dislike (the only thing the JFC ever proved was that every monkey prefers his own banana).
Since more than 3,300 P-63s were built, and it saw combat (with the Free French and Soviets) in far greater numbers than the F4U-1C or Ta 152H, I think it would be an excellent candidate for inclusion in the AH2 plane-set someday.
My regards,
Widewing
Edit: When you hear about the P-63 not being used in Europe, I guarantee you they were. It was twice as good as the P-39 and a heck of a lot faster. That's like giving a kid an opened toy on the day after Christmas, and then telling him he cant play with it till next christmas but then leaving it for him to play with.... You think he's not gonna play with it?
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I would love to see this in game. :)
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Would definitely need to be perked.
410 mph at 20k :O
The 109K does that under 10k :lol
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the 37 would off set the speed and 410 at 20 k is about normal
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The 109K does that under 10k :lol
I'll make an exception for German steel. ;)
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The 109K does that under 10k :lol
Also, Yak-9U does about 415 at 16k, no wep.
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The first P-39Qs weren't delivered til June/July 1943. Not sure where you copied and pasted your info from (I suspect wikipedia) but it's "then standard 1942 P-39Q" doesn't seem right.
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The first P-39Qs weren't delivered til June/July 1943. Not sure where you copied and pasted your info from (I suspect wikipedia) but it's "then standard 1942 P-39Q" doesn't seem right.
Thats what I thought after reading it a few times, everything seems wrong.
Read WideWings post. (I usually try to get my quotes from him :P )
It could out run and out turn the La-7 and would be the end to it.... Next thing you hear on 200 "YOU STUPID P63 DWEEB, YOU HO'D ME!!!!!!!!! DA RIGHT NOW!!"
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for once someone came up with something worthwhile :aok :rock :D :salute
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:rock :rock :rock
P-63 King Cobra ftw!
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Consider:
P-63 C or A10 variant -
37mm with 58 rounds
4 x .50's with 1000-1200 rounds
Up to 3 500 lb bombs or drop tanks
Unknown but perhaps 8 5" rockets
<9000 lbs takeoff weight
1800 hp
410 (+/-) mph at altitude
Awesome cockpit visibility
230 lbs-ish armor
There were over 2400 made, whereas some HTC planes were less than 1000.
Certainly a great addition and HTC could use the graphic models from the P39 (I won't quibble about 3' of wingspan or 2' overall length).
For you detail-oriented pilots, I don't have exact specs in front of me but it's close.
I'd fly it and I'm sure others would too
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" COBRASTOCHKA" dear lil' cobra
P63 King cobra was known as the tank of the skies to the russians and was primarily used as a Ground attack platform against all sorts of troops and GVs. It was dearly loved for it's survivability in a nasty nasty theater of operations :)
This plane would make a nice addition
what a clueless comment....
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Although I still really want the P-63, old post of mine that had been bumped. :rolleyes:
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P-63A :salute
This is actually a plane we don't have yet, that I would fly in the MA some.
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Well, if it turns like a FM2, runs like an LA, and has four .50 cal. guns, then it may get used in the Main Arena. Pilots who can aim the 37 mm in a (turn) fight will be racking up kills. If it has such great performance, it may become the preferred Joker's Jokers/Rolling Thunder NOE buster. Still though, the wish looks a lot like it was copied and pasted straight from Wikipedia. If it looked a little more like THIS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,262675.msg3265407.html#msg3265407) you wouldn't have had to bump it so many times.
I say +1
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I don't think the P-63 would be flown a whole lot. The P-39 is a superb aircraft as well but it doesn't get flown because of it's visibility problems and funky flight characteristics.
A P-63 would be much like the Ta 152 IMO. A superb aircraft that very few people have the patience to learn because of handling difficulties.
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I don't think the P-63 would be flown a whole lot. The P-39 is a superb aircraft as well but it doesn't get flown because of it's visibility problems and funky flight characteristics.
A P-63 would be much like the Ta 152 IMO. A superb aircraft that very few people have the patience to learn because of handling difficulties.
That may be true, but people with the patience to learn the aircraft and develop tactics that do not consist of only lufberry turns, such as moot, will be able to rack up kills in it. Have you seen 1pLuS44 in the P-39?
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I know. I like it as well, I'd fly it in the MA if I didn't fly Luft-only.
However, just like the P 39 I don't think that the P 63 would be a popular aircraft.
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Well, if it turns like a FM2, runs like an LA, and has four .50 cal. guns, then it may get used in the Main Arena.
And the fact that it didn't (at least officially AND VERIFIABLY) ever see combat action in the war guarantees it WON'T get used.
Great plane, but doesn't belong. If HTC adds this they may as well add the Bearcat and Tigercat as well. Do we really want to open that can of worms?
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And the fact that it didn't (at least officially AND VERIFIABLY) ever see combat action in the war guarantees it WON'T get used.
Great plane, but doesn't belong. If HTC adds this they may as well add the Bearcat and Tigercat as well. Do we really want to open that can of worms?
It did indeed see combat, good sir. It may or may not have fought Jerry. That much is debatable. However there is no fighting the fact that it was indeed used to fight Mr.Tojo.
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It did indeed see combat, good sir. It may or may not have fought Jerry. That much is debatable. However there is no fighting the fact that it was indeed used to fight Mr.Tojo.
1 kill.
allegedly
wrongway
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It did indeed see combat, good sir. It may or may not have fought Jerry. That much is debatable. However there is no fighting the fact that it was indeed used to fight Mr.Tojo.
It was SENT to the Russians under the agreement they would only use it against the Japanese. However the war in the Pacific was over before the Soviets could really mount any real offensive (IIRC, the Russians dragged their feet turning against Japan after Germany surrendered). The only rumors of combat with the P-63 I've EVER heard of are dubious reports of combat with remnants of the Luftwaffe in the final months of combat along the Eastern Front.
As AWwrgwy said: 1 kill. Allegedly. The P-63 DOES NOT BELONG in the game, per HTC's own criteria.
We have a better chance of seeing the B-29 in the game.
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p-63 would be a nice addition
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I have a hunch that the P-63 would be flown with a little bit lower standards than the P-39.
Usually, to have a successful flight in the P-39 (which is really just the challenge of getting back home, kills or not), you either need to be picking the crap out of a large group, and really using your E well, or only staying in the small fights.
P-63 could more than likely handle it's own in a large fight in the MA, but if it went under the long range icon as "P-39" it would probably always get the crap ganged out of it like what usually happens to me now whenever I do fly it the P-39.
I can't really say how well it would do in the MA's unless it were to be added and I were to try it, but that's just my basic guess as to how you'd see it in combat.