Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: SmokinLoon on July 17, 2008, 08:32:46 PM
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My PC was "custom" built by a local PC shop in Aug if 2002. It has worked quite well for me. Along the way I have replaced/upgraded my motherboard and put in a slightly better vid card w/ 64meg of ram. I do believe that AHII has maxed out my PC and even put a strain on it, so I am going to upgrade. There is an ever so slight hesitation when I'm flying through smoke over an airfield in chase of them vulchers... cant have that. ;)
First, my current PC:
AMD 1800+
768 DDR mem (2 slots = 512/256)
40 Gig HD
Radeon 9550 w/ 64meg RAM
etc.
Second, the questions:
1. Can I use this new DDR2 mem without changing my motherboard? Will those DDR3 sticks go right into place where the DDR stick are now?
2. Swapping out my current AMD 1800+ for a much faster AMD processor (AMD 64 X2 5000+ blah blah blaah)... is it rocket science? I've swapped out vid cards, ehternet cards, CD/DVD players, CD/DVD burners, RAM sticks, etc.... but never a motherboard or processor. Go for it or hire it done?
3. I'm going to buy a new vid card, too. Any suggestions for a vid card that likes AMD processors?
I'd like to leave my hard drive intact and not mess with it.
THANKS!!!
-Smokin'
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Listen... to be able to answer your specific questions, we'd have to at least know exactly which motherboard you have.
I can tell you this though... most likely, you'll need to pretty much do a complete build, as an old MB for an 1800+ processor isn't likely to accomodate late model processors.
You might be able to reuse the case, but plan on replacing everything else.. MB, processor, memory, power supply, video.
Yes AMD was great back in the day, but I think Intel has overtaken them with the Core-Duo processors, in both performance AND compatibility (and price!). My entry level Intel Core-Duo E6300 processor absolutely BLOWS AWAY my old 2200+ processor, and this is the 'low end' of the processor family, and an economy motherboard. Matched with an older 7900GS video card, I rarely see frame rates below 50 (1280X1024, 1024 hi-res textures, all settings maxed), and usually it's pegged out at 75.
From what I've read, the new Intel processors run very cool, and use very little power (compared to the P4 generation and AMD processors). I was a die hard AMD fan back in the day, but I don't plan on giving up my Intel any time soon! Personally I'd probably go with a faster dual core processor instead of a quad core (not much support for the quad yet), but others beg to differ.
Also you'll want to find a PCI-e video card.. might as well go DirectX10 as this is becoming the new standard. I recommend an NVIDIA 9600GT... the price is right and from what I understand it's an outstanding performer.
I wouldn't worry about DDR3 just yet... DDR2 is plenty fast enough for just about anything
Find a good quality 400watt or more power supply to go with it as these new video cards suck a lot of juice.
Now here come the replies with more specific recommendations...
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1) No, DDR and DDR2 memory are physically different.
2) Swapping a Processor isn't hard, just unlock the latch, carefully pull off the heatsink, then pull the little metal bar up and pull the CPU out. Put new CPU in then put bar back in to lock CPU in, put a little Thermal glue on and smear it on the put Heatsink back on, lock it back up.
Note: Make sure you have the right socket type for the CPU, AMD uses Socket types 939/AM2/AM2+ primarily.
3) Any video card will work with AMD, but make sure the Motherboard doesn't use Radeon, or NVidia is out of the question I've heard.
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You could build a decent rig for $400. Its not hard and there are some guys here that are very good with this stuff and are very willing to help out. My suggestion is to go to the Hardware section of the forums, make a post, with a dollar limit, and let them suggest away. As you check out the responses you'll learn more, and of course figure out new questions. Ask away, there are some very knowledgeable people who post here.
Good Luck !
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Woops. I just realized I put this in the wrong forum. If the mods so desire, please move it to the Hardware/Software forum.
Is there a way to tell what motherboard I have without looking directly at it? I dug in the "Device Manager" folders, but didnt find a *name* of the motherboard.
The current video card I have is the second one, the first was an Invidia. I upgraded to the Radeon for some more speed a few years ago.
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Looking for the "name" of a Motherboard can be difficult if you have no documentation. Some Motherboards will have the ID of the board itself, as with a few i have had the ID was underneath the PCI-E slot (Make sure not to confuse the name and the ID). Another way to tell is download a program like "Everest" and check under the Motherboard section after installed, it will have it listed as "Motherboard Name".
However it is easier to just look at the type of slots you have and you will know if you can upgrade. If you stick with AMD you will want AM2/AM2+ socket for CPU. For GPU you will want a PCI-E x16 slot, and for ram average seems to be DDR2-800MHz.
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Your system is so old that I promise you, you can't upgrade it very much. The CPU can be upgraded, yes, but the motherboard only accepts certain types. From 2002 you're going to be limited in what a motherboard can accept.
Trust me, I've had several "dead end" PCs from that era. Unupgradable.
Even if you can rip out all the guts and replace them, then the power supply can't run it, and the case doesn't have a side vent required for newer CPUs, the HDs are ancient and slow, etc.
In summary: No, you can't upgrade. Not effectively, not without spending a ton of time and money for little end result. Save up for a new system. I don't say that lightly in case.
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Your system is so old that I promise you, you can't upgrade it very much. The CPU can be upgraded, yes, but the motherboard only accepts certain types. From 2002 you're going to be limited in what a motherboard can accept.
Trust me, I've had several "dead end" PCs from that era. Unupgradable.
Even if you can rip out all the guts and replace them, then the power supply can't run it, and the case doesn't have a side vent required for newer CPUs, the HDs are ancient and slow, etc.
In summary: No, you can't upgrade. Not effectively, not without spending a ton of time and money for little end result. Save up for a new system. I don't say that lightly in case.
What this guy said.
Save your money.
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1. DDR, DDR2, DDR3 memories are not the same and are not interchangeable.
2. It's likely you're CPU socket is no longer campatable with newer chips.
3. It's likely your video card is an AGP slot, which is increasingly rare.
4. Your power supply will likely be insufficient to power a newer video card.
5. Your case is likely outmoded from a cooling perspective.
Much of this is assuption based on the age of your system but I bet I'm not far off. about the best you can hope for with that system is a baby step here or there but in the end it probably just isn't worth it.
If I were you I'd save for a new system and build it yourself. You can get a basic (and I mean basic) system for $350-400, decent for $600-800 and great for $1000-1400.
You should be able to salvage some parts; keyboard, mouse, speakers/headset, hard drive (although I'd plan on a new one and use yours for storage or back-up), optical drives (although the new SATA drives are much faster and only ~$20-25 each) and floppy. Other than that it's probably replacement time.
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optical drives (although the new SATA drives are much faster and only ~$20-25 each)
Granted the speed limits of SATA, the bandwidth allowed by it is still no where near matched by usage of optical drives. I wouldn't expect more than a 5% performance gain merely because of the limitations of the media, not the connection/hardware.
But SATA drives are excellent in the small cable size (better airflow) and you wouldn't have to worry about performance drops when sharing two drives across one IDE cable.
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Don't know about optical, but I had a 2001-era hard drive (20GB) that I used even after I upgraded to a modern motherboard. It was.... "okay"... It worked, I mean. Running games like HL2 and other similar programs had long level load times, the bootup time took a couple of minutes, but was not entirely terrible.
I upgraded to a SATA 1.5. Just a single HD. Not a RAID or anything. It's greased lightning, compared to what it used to be. Reinstalling WinXP when it got past all the settings and started copying files, it was done inside 5 minutes. It took 30 mins on the older IDE hard drive. Photoshop loads instantly, split second blip of the splash screen and it's done. HL2 almost has no load times (very short).
And here's the kicker: WinXP boots up in about 30-40 seconds now.
I strongly recommend getting a SATA HD, if you can ditch IDE at all.
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I added an Asus SATA DVD burner and I noticed that when I play movies there is no more hesitation when the transition to the second layer occurs or when pausing and restarting playback.
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I added an Asus SATA DVD burner and I noticed that when I play movies there is no more hesitation when the transition to the second layer occurs or when pausing and restarting playback.
I believe this would be attributed to a faster access time of your DVD burner, not the SATA cable.
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Your CPU is going back 2-3 generations now, even before the barton core AMD's. I honestly have forgotten what socket those are (I do have a couple of boxes with 2500's around). I'm amazed you've gotten as much as you have from your rig, any VC upgrade would be nixed by a CPU bottleneck...as krusty has already said your at a dead end. Your also in a real good spot to build out a new box...
Right now you can "go cheap" and really get some extraordinary bang for the buck specific to AH. Not a cutting edge system but everything you need for AH...
Starting with super cheap...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135082 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135082) $60
Gets you MB, VC and 512 of memory...now all this is "junk" to a serious builder but its way above what you have...you'd need to do some research but you might be able to use current case and PS (although I doubt it)...but you could get a wwhole system up for well under $200 I think. ECS boards have a high intitial failure rate but if they make it 90 days they can go for a decade...
Super cheap 775 board...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186129 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186129) $20
Foxconn is actually not a bad board...just a soso board on closeout but not junk IMO...
Just taking a look heres my current "cheapie build"...
MB $35 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500005 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500005)
CPU...
2 options here...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115052 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115052) $130
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116052 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116052) $70
You can run the lowest core duo so overclocked that either you step up a grade or stay at the bottom. I'd need to double check the MB for the 1st chip but plenty of options in the same 40-50 price range...
Memory 2G $40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231119 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231119)
Power supply
Again two options
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182075 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182075)$40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341001 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341001)$70
I'd got with the OZ personally, you run a risk with a 2nd teir PS but the rosewill is not bad for what it is...
Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811166030 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811166030)$50
This case comes with 3 X 120mm fans...vey good value for the bucks
HD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144487 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144487)$40
VC
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130084 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130084) $60
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Wow a $20 motherboard.
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Its old and slow....but its AGP and would probably let him use his current memory, PS etc...I just dont know where you'd find a compatable cpu...maybe mwave?
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Ebay or a second hand computer parts store. There is one where I live that is also a recycling center.
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I don't understand why someone would recommend motherboards , processors ect... humble. For a bit more you can build a premier system . My suggestion is read up on current technology because quad core is the wave of the future/ Getting a better mother board would be my best suggestion in case you want to upgrade your processor in the future. Humble is on the right direction you can build a good system quite inexpensive but read up on whats available.
OOOH and by the way humble intels are definitely great but amd has come out with some good stuff in the past 6 months and they get good ratings and are much cheaper than intel. Just got a 9850 and its awesome im benchmarking 15,500 in 3dmark06
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The 9850 does trade blows back and forth with Q6600 and Q6700's in gaming that is.
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I believe this would be attributed to a faster access time of your DVD burner, not the SATA cable.
Really? I would have thought that SATAII would enjoy much higher bandwidth over IDE either way.
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OOOH and by the way humble intels are definitely great but amd has come out with some good stuff in the past 6 months and they get good ratings and are much cheaper than intel. Just got a 9850 and its awesome im benchmarking 15,500 in 3dmark06
AMD has problems which a lot of us here have experienced in the spinning clipboard issue. Thats why I went with Intel this time round. Also going for quad core when core 2 duo is so much cheaper seems contradictory to your own advice. When quad cores will actually do something useful beyond dual cores then there will also be cheaper quad cores.
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Really? I would have thought that SATAII would enjoy much higher bandwidth over IDE either way.
IIRC from watching the screen savers a few years back...
Think of IDE/PATA as 2 lane highway (for size comparisons) and SATA as an 8 lane highway. Clearly the SATA highway can handle more cars on it, but both highways have the same speed limit of 65 MPH.
In the case of Optical drives, the read speeds of disks is pretty slow as compared to hard drives. So the amount of data traveling down the PATA highway is fairly light on traffic. So a 8 lane highway isn't going to get the traffic to their destination any faster.
And just like traffic, too much traffic will cause congestion and slow it down, IE reducing the speed of traffic to say 20MPH. This plays a role when using multiple drives on one PATA/IDE cable (2 HD's or 1 HD and 1 CDRW etc etc). But since SATA has dedicated cables per device, traffic jams rarely, if ever happen.
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If I were to buy a new Optical drive today, it would be for sure a SATA drive for the smaller cable, not really speed.