Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mathman on July 03, 2001, 12:53:00 AM
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Anyone know why the ENY value for the hellcat is 17 when the F4U-1D is 22? Seems it should be the other way around.
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Try fighting a f6f with a dhog, all will become clear. ;)
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I have wondered what the reasoning behind the ENY values is in the first place. All of the FW190A series is in the 30+ range and their K/D is much higher the the -1D or F6F. The La7 is almost as high. I think HTC just kind of threw darts at a board to get there numbers while expecting to adjust later but they never did.
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The Jug D-11 ENY is way lower than the other Jugs', too.
ra
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because eny value has nothing to do with kd. Its for the same reason the chog was perked..........to promote more diversity in the ma.
dhog had 6271 more kill then the a5. If you check the number of sorties flown by the planes with the lowest eny value you will see they are flown alot more then those with the high eny value.
Its the same reason ht raised the perk value for goons a few tours ago. That is way it should be.
(http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/rot3jv44.jpg)
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But on the other hand anybody with any sense (which excludes me) and who cares for their scores would choose the 190-a5 over the F6 because of its much better K/D.
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hmm i get better k/d when i fly f6f5 than in 190
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Wotan,
So your telling me since more people prefer to fly an F4U-1D than an FW190A5 that the eny value of the A5 should be higher? Then why is the value of the F6F lower than the F4U? Based on your logic the F6F should be in between the F4U and the FW190A5. Also how would you justify the difference in the P-47 series?
Not only is that not what they are doing but it would make no sense. ENY value should be and I believe what pyro said it is in direct relation to the effectiveness of a given A/C in the MA. The C-hog isn't just perked because more people fly it, but because it kills everything in the MA with ease at a high K/D. I'm sure people would fly the C202 allot more if you could only kill something with it ala the Zero vrs the NIK2. It is not more popular, it is more effective. The F4U and F6F both happen to be popular but not as effective in "Cannons High" as say a C-hog or a FW190A/D.
Point being it is time to re-evaulate the eny values in AH.
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CAnnons high a5? yeah sure..Its 2 cannons are less effective, than 3x50cals, they shoot max d300, 2g:s are max if you want to hit..Its more like shotgun than cannon.
190a5 every kill has to be earned, even when bouncing afk player, since you have to unload G:s before shooting and thus risk for ramming.
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Honestly Tuomio I could care less about the modeling of the LW cannons. I am talking about the ENY values. And last time I checked the F6F had an eny of 17 and a K/D of about .7 and the FW190A5 has an ENY of 30 and a K/D of approx 1.2 and that is backwards. I'm sure the C202 fan club isn't happy about the guns on it either, but then that is a topic for another thread.
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The F6F was assigned a ENY of 17 as soon as it was introduced, before it even had a K/D ratio. Likewise the P47-D11 was assigned a ENY of 18, while the P48-D25 has a ENY of 31. The D25 is easier to get kills in, and those kills are worth more. The whole perk/scoring system is very incomplete.
ra
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Well I believe that whatever oddities there are in the ENY values are because they are (probably) set by hand. Until there is a piece of code in place that handles all the ENY and perk values according to the stats of the plane, there will be imbalances etc etc.
Why is that? I believe that the people at HTC have more urgent tasks at hand most of the time than going through lots of stat numbers and then setting the ENY and perk values of each plane by hand to match the current situation.
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SageFin and RA are exactly right. The ENY values were set before the K/D's were known, however now that they are we can see the discrepinsies. I also know that HTC is busy on DX8, trains strat, etc right now so I wouldn't expect to see anything happen with them soon.
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I kinda like the guns a a C202 they R fun and make U work REAL hard for a kill. I have no problem with the FW's guns or any of the LW cannons for that matter. I am just as easyly killing fighters and such with the 20mm on a 109 and 190 serries I just set convergance to 400m on all cannons and the Mgs slightly less about 350 to 300m. I only fire at those distances with a good half second bust or around 10-20 rounds. much more affective that way with those planes.
But I am no LW pilot by a day in sight. I am a big IJN/IJA pilot everything but the N1K and only because I cant fly that plane worth a damn.
My new ride for this tour is the P38 for long missions and the C202 for anything else any suggestions for the P38?
Hodo
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My new ride for this tour is the P38 for long missions and the C202 for anything else any suggestions for the P38?
Hodo[/QB]
when you get a shot dont miss cuz you might not get another
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Thnx I am working on my aiming skills with the P38 takes some getting used to. I like flying it so far it fustrates me sometimes its nothing like my Zero or like the KI61 of last tour and without the Dive flaps doing much for me in a dive its a lot of work but so far I am breaking even in it. I am tring a new thing with it I am flying it like a P47razorback it has similar E charecteristics and speed limits. But I have to remember NEVER push a attack in a bad situation like I am so famuos for. :cool:
Hodo
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4 50s and 1 hisp.
How CAN you miss? :)
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I'm getting a headache reading these posts, anyways from what i've seen there are only about 3-4 guys to worry about when they are in a f6f and you can pretty much disengage from them at will with a couple S's. or spiral climb. So why is the f6f so short on eny ? Doesn't take a brain surgeon to see in the MA that f6fs are 94% fodder. And for any great f6f guys reading this, lets face it when you're in one and get there, get kills, get home you're pattin yourselfs on the back. And if you have made it home it's because you're fighting in an area with many countrymen near to bail ya out when a p51 or or any # or planes are running you down. Don't get me wrong I like the f6f its classy bird and when I make it back to the carrier or base I feel like i've been reborn.
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B52,
Better planes are supposed to be assigned lower ENY's, but many planes with lower ENY's perform worse in the arena than planes with higher ENY's, that's what started this thread.
ra
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The ENY values for the F4U-1D and F6F have been reversed. It is now 18 for the -1D and 22 for the F6F.
BTW the P51D and FW190D9 are also 18, go figure. And the FW190A5 is still 30??? WTF
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The 190A5 is not a killer ride guys... I fought Westy in a F6f in one 3 tiems yesterday, the only close one was the 1st fight. The other 2 fights I was summarily executed. Lets take a look at the 190a5 though, because I understand that many of you don't fly it. 2x7.92mm MGs (useless), and 2x20mm cannon with 500 rounds (total). This is the option I normally fly with, because the option for 2x20mm with 250 ammo and 2x20mm with 55 ammo doesnt make much sense to me. You use up the low ammo cannons on your first burst (if you have crap aim like me anyway). The 190a5 can't turn with any allied plane, can't turn with any British plane, can't turn with any Russian plane, and can't turn with any Japanese plane. And no, it can't turn with the Italian planes either. The climb rate is fairly anemic, about 2500fpm around 10k. The roll rate is good, the elevator authority is pretty bad, and the acceleration is mediocre, except in a dive, during which time the acceleration is fairly good. The only reason the 190a5 has a good record is because the pilots flying it understand that their plane is not made of dogfighting, nor furballing alone. I am a LOT more careful in the 190 than I am in the 109, as far as choosing my battles. Being careful leads to a better score, IMO.
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if you have flown these planes you know
1) the f4u-1d is as good a ma plane as the p51.. its marginally slower, but has more ammo and is mroe durable. it also has a slightly smaller turning circle. i would say the p51 fw190 d9 and f4u-1 are very well matched, just in different ways
durability
1)f4u
2)tie (pony and dora)
turning
1)f4u
2)p51
3)dora
climb
1)dora
2)p51
c) f4u
speed
1)dora
2)p51
3)f4u
guns
1)f4u
2)p51
3)fw190d9
ord carrying capability
1)f4u
2)p51
3)dora
eeach has strengths and weaknesses but i would say all are about equal
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Zig,
You forgot roll:
1)Dora
2)F4U
3)P51
Also I would have given the Dora the best guns. The problem is the cockpit geometry which doesn't allow for good deflection shooting, but if you can hit anything those guns are powerful.
ra
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I also think the F6F value is too low. But I have been seeing a wierd thing with it. Is the 50 cal in the F6F the same as the 50 cal in the F4U-D? I mean I hit things with the F4U-D and they take soem dammage but when I hit someone with a burts from the F6F they almost always lose a wing or catch fire. Not sure if its just me imagioning things but thats what I see.
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They are the same. Fly it more.. the guns will seem less effective.
Go up against an Il-2 if you really want to see what I'm talking about.
AKDejaVu