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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cobia38 on July 20, 2008, 02:37:13 PM

Title: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: cobia38 on July 20, 2008, 02:37:13 PM


As of 2005, direct U.S. economic and military assistance to Israel amounted to nearly 154 billion, a policy that has served to cause a widening rift between the Arab population and the United States


 In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25%, to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period (starting at $2.550 billion for 2008, growing by $150 million each year).

   :furious as of 2005 154 BILLION $$$ this is insane  :furious

  and just think this is only one leaching country sucking our lifeblood
  if we cut the $$$ to all the leaching countrys just think of the $$ we would save.  :rock


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Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Banshee7 on July 20, 2008, 02:39:09 PM
<hijack> i love your sig  :rofl </hijack>
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Fulmar on July 20, 2008, 02:47:15 PM
Things could really start heating up in this thread...
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 20, 2008, 02:53:41 PM
In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25%, to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period (starting at $2.550 billion for 2008, growing by $150 million each year).

3 billion per year

Budget: 2770 billion

Budget Deficit: 163 billion

We could cut our deficit by 1.2%!
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Dago on July 20, 2008, 03:34:53 PM
Luckily we recover some of the money through the spying programs Israel runs here spying on the USA, and through the huge lobbying efforts in Congress.  I am sure the congressmen return some of the bribe money into the economy.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: evenhaim on July 20, 2008, 03:38:14 PM
And im sure youd love it if we stop supplying intelligence, bases of operation, new tech such as the new combat flight helmets for your attack choppers or the modification we invented for f16s new shoulder tanks, or the thousands of micro chips etc we produce for the us, not to mention the role we play in hosting the us mideast operations sheesh think before you blurt out blind facts...
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Elfie on July 20, 2008, 03:44:50 PM
Quote
We could cut our deficit by 1.2%!

If we cut ALL foreign aid we would probably save a bit more than 1.2% ;)

I'm actually in favor of cutting all foreign aid to all countries except Israel......
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: REP0MAN on July 20, 2008, 03:47:52 PM
And im sure youd love it if we stop supplying intelligence, bases of operation, new tech such as the new combat flight helmets for your attack choppers or the modification we invented for f16s new shoulder tanks, or the thousands of micro chips etc we produce for the us, not to mention the role we play in hosting the us mideast operations sheesh think before you blurt out blind facts...

Thank you Freez, I am glad you spoke up.

Israel is a friend and will be a friend for a long time to come. We need them and they need us. They are a great ally.

<S> Freez
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: cobia38 on July 20, 2008, 04:01:32 PM
And im sure youd love it if we stop supplying intelligence, bases of operation, new tech such as the new combat flight helmets for your attack choppers or the modification we invented for f16s new shoulder tanks, or the thousands of micro chips etc we produce for the us, not to mention the role we play in hosting the us mideast operations sheesh think before you blurt out blind facts...

 we dont need bases of operation, we have carrier task forces for that.
 and all that tachno would not be, if not for the handouts in the first place.
 i have nothing against your country,or any other for that matter.
 but when i see #s like that i want to puke.
 and as for ops. in the mideast,IMHO its a waste of time.
 the entire region has been nothing more then a religous battleground for thousends of years.it all boils down to a deity pi$$ing match.and i dont want to pay for it.
 
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Dago on July 20, 2008, 04:08:57 PM
we dont need bases of operation, we have carrier task forces for that.
 and all that tachno would not be, if not for the handouts in the first place.
 i have nothing against your country,or any other for that matter.
 but when i see #s like that i want to puke.
 and as for ops. in the mideast,IMHO its a waste of time.
 the entire region has been nothing more then a religous battleground for thousends of years.it all boils down to a deity pi$$ing match.and i dont want to pay for it.
 

You beat me to it, "supplying"?   A bit of a joke, more like a poor return on investment.

Why is Israel such a good friend?  Because they are always there when they need us?  Because they are willing to accept all that money and help build our national dept?

I wonder, if we cut all ties, who would feel the pinch of the separation first?
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: evenhaim on July 20, 2008, 04:11:13 PM
we dont need bases of operation, we have carrier task forces for that.
 and all that tachno would not be, if not for the handouts in the first place.
 i have nothing against your country,or any other for that matter.
 but when i see #s like that i want to puke.
 and as for ops. in the mideast,IMHO its a waste of time.
 the entire region has been nothing more then a religous battleground for thousends of years.it all boils down to a deity pi$$ing match.and i dont want to pay for it.
 
exactly that when someone blurts out leeching country this and that its asking for a pissing match talk about egypt who gets 2.4 billion rather than three and they are an islamic nation so.... you cant define 1 stereotype of aid recipient but just now that the us doesnt think that they dont need the bases of operation, and the tech is definatly related. If we didnt get aid, i doubt the us woud be getting all the tech that it sells of to its foriegn partners that we provide.

Sorry its just this is a touchy issue
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: evenhaim on July 20, 2008, 04:12:18 PM
You beat me to it, "supplying"?   A bit of a joke, more like a poor return on investment.

Why is Israel such a good friend?  Because they are always there when they need us?  Because they are willing to accept all that money and help build our national dept?

I wonder, if we cut all ties, who would feel the pinch of the separation first?
Lol that statment is just factually defict.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: cobia38 on July 20, 2008, 04:14:09 PM
 this taken from gallop poll
As of July 2006, 44% of Americans thought that the "United States supports Israel about the right amount," 11% thought "too little", and 38% thought "too much".
 
 wow 38% thought too much, and of those 44% who think its about the right amount.......if they knew the actuall # of $$$ would change ther opinion.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: evenhaim on July 20, 2008, 04:15:37 PM
this taken from gallop poll
As of July 2006, 44% of Americans thought that the "United States supports Israel about the right amount," 11% thought "too little", and 38% thought "too much".
 
 wow 38% thought too much, and of those 44% who think its about the right amount.......if they knew the actuall # of $$$ would change ther opinion.
That sucks, but i doubt they know the inner workings of the us israeli relationship and what each does for the other as well..
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 20, 2008, 04:44:19 PM
Quick!  Let's move as fast as we can to appease the arabs!

ALLAH BE PRAISED!


ALLAH ACKBAR!
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: bj229r on July 20, 2008, 04:48:54 PM
We support Israel because it's the right thing to do--would you stand by and watch a bunch of thugs beat the crap out of someone if it was in your power to stop it?
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: cobia38 on July 20, 2008, 05:01:19 PM
Quick!  Let's move as fast as we can to appease the arabs!

ALLAH BE PRAISED!


ALLAH ACKBAR!

  :rofl appease the arabs !
 far from it, acually i could care less about them.
 i just hate seeing money going evrywher but here at home
 
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: storch on July 20, 2008, 05:04:19 PM
We support Israel because it's the right thing to do--would you stand by and watch a bunch of thugs beat the crap out of someone if it was in your power to stop it?
spot on
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: bozon on July 20, 2008, 05:05:28 PM
As of 2005, direct U.S. economic and military assistance to Israel amounted to nearly 154 billion, a policy that has served to cause a widening rift between the Arab population and the United States
...
  and just think this is only one leaching country sucking our lifeblood
  if we cut the $$$ to all the leaching countrys just think of the $$ we would save.  :rock
I said it many times before and I'll say it again: As an Israeli I am FOR cutting back the military aid.

The US is not doing Israel any favors. Its main goal is to protect its military industries - actually aiding friends and having diplomatic means of pressure are just by products. The US military is not a big enough market to support this big industry and especially expensive R&D against an enemy that doesn't exist (you don't need a new fighter to fight terrorists) is not economically viable. If the US goverment would tell the american public that it plans to subsidize military industry and just pour money into it (making a few people very rich) there would be a huge outrage. However, if you pour money into your own industry, produce things you do not need and give them away you can keep the public content and pleased with itself (who doesn't like to fee like a philanthropist?). In practice you give away a product which its actual manufacturing cost is a tiny part of its market value (most is R&D).

At the same time, the countries receiving the aid will have a hard time developing technology of their own since it is much cheaper to just buy it with the "aid" coupons. Even if they do, the actual paying market will be flooded with cheaper, mass produced american equipment. This way the US is shielding its industries from competition.

And finally, the aid is used as a whip against countries hooked on it to defend non-military industries or other American interests. Example: I think it was two years ago that the US goverment forced EL-AL, the Israeli national airline to buy Boeing instead of Airbus (after it was decided to buy Airbus) which has nothing to do with the military or aid, but the US threatened not to sell several things Israel was interested in.

There's a lot more to it, but I'll stop here.
So, yes the aid to Israel should be cut back, but if you think that your country is doing anyone a favor with the military aid you are fooling yourself - and more importantly, your government is fooling you.

Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: cobia38 on July 20, 2008, 05:09:25 PM
We support Israel because it's the right thing to do--would you stand by and watch a bunch of thugs beat the crap out of someone if it was in your power to stop it?

  Darfur is in the midst of getting the crap beat out of them.
  and yet no one is stoping it.

 
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: evenhaim on July 20, 2008, 05:13:10 PM
I said it many times before and I'll say it again: As an Israeli I am FOR cutting back the military aid.

The US is not doing Israel any favors. Its main goal is to protect its military industries - actually aiding friends and having diplomatic means of pressure are just by products. The US military is not a big enough market to support this big industry and especially expensive R&D against an enemy that doesn't exist (you don't need a new fighter to fight terrorists) is not economically viable. If the US goverment would tell the american public that it plans to subsidize military industry and just pour money into it (making a few people very rich) there would be a huge outrage. However, if you pour money into your own industry, produce things you do not need and give them away you can keep the public content and pleased with itself (who doesn't like to fee like a philanthropist?). In practice you give away a product which its actual manufacturing cost is a tiny part of its market value (most is R&D).

At the same time, the countries receiving the aid will have a hard time developing technology of their own since it is much cheaper to just buy it with the "aid" coupons. Even if they do, the actual paying market will be flooded with cheaper, mass produced american equipment. This way the US is shielding its industries from competition.

And finally, the aid is used as a whip against countries hooked on it to defend non-military industries or other American interests. Example: I think it was two years ago that the US goverment forced EL-AL, the Israeli national airline to buy Boeing instead of Airbus (after it was decided to buy Airbus) which has nothing to do with the military or aid, but the US threatened not to sell several things Israel was interested in.

There's a lot more to it, but I'll stop here.
So, yes the aid to Israel should be cut back, but if you think that your country is doing anyone a favor with the military aid you are fooling yourself - and more importantly, your government is fooling you.


bozon was spot on in a more forward manner than i could have ever delievered. :)
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: BaldEagl on July 20, 2008, 05:25:37 PM
I thought the only foriegn aid we had around here was Lusche in the Help and Training forum.  How much does he get?
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 20, 2008, 05:26:48 PM

  :rofl appease the arabs !
 far from it, acually i could care less about them.
 i just hate seeing money going evrywher but here at home
 

You yourself said it.

"a policy that has served to cause a widening rift between the Arab population and the United States"
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Bodhi on July 20, 2008, 05:27:30 PM
keep up the support for Israel. 

Cut the foreign aid to all countries that are not supporting us.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: cobia38 on July 20, 2008, 05:30:36 PM
 this post wasent started to flame Israel.it just happend to be on top of the list for recipients.
 it was started to bring to the attention the kind of $$ we are dishing out.  if you add up all non millitary forign aid that U.S. dished out in 2007 it is 35.1 billion. thats alot of money.and this is just what the U.S. state department is makeing availible to the public.
 then you factor in the aditional millitary aid.it gets even higher.
 i just think its time some countrys stand on ther own feet instead of ours.
 
 
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: bozon on July 20, 2008, 05:46:50 PM
...if you add up all non millitary forign aid that U.S. dished out in 2007 it is 35.1 billion. thats alot of money.and this is just what the U.S. state department is makeing availible to the public.
And yet not a single dollar is leaving the US. Cut it back (paying your own industries) and you have a few tens of thousand angry unemployed in addition to a few very rich, very powerful and very angry people. No politician would like that.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: bj229r on July 20, 2008, 05:49:22 PM
  Darfur is in the midst of getting the crap beat out of them.
  and yet no one is stoping it.

 
Well...ya'd figger the Europeans could do SOMEthing, as very few are involved in Afghanistan or Iraq
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: cobia38 on July 20, 2008, 05:53:40 PM
Well...ya'd figger the Europeans could do SOMEthing, as very few are involved in Afghanistan or Iraq

  yeah that would be nice if they would,but we all know they wont.
   in the end it will fall on our shoulders.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Chalenge on July 20, 2008, 06:16:00 PM
Im all in favor of moving Israel to Maine or Massachusetts.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Dago on July 20, 2008, 06:43:03 PM
I admit to not being an expert on Israel, but how exactly are they "supporting" us?  Financially?  Nope.   Militarily?  Not really.

What is it then, what is the great support?  Giving a bunch of money, gifts and freebies to members of congress?

I fail to see standing by with hands out, saying "we are your friends" as being supportive.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Maverick on July 20, 2008, 07:15:50 PM

  :rofl appease the arabs !
 far from it, acually i could care less about them.
 i just hate seeing money going evrywher but here at home
 

Do you have any idea how much money is flowing to the arabs for oil? Did you fill up your car this last week? If so you are supporting the arab world. Way to go terrorist supporter.









































Keep things in perspective.  :P
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: REP0MAN on July 20, 2008, 09:38:23 PM
Actually, I think I used some of the 30% made here at home.....

 ;)
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Jackal1 on July 21, 2008, 06:53:48 AM
  Darfur is in the midst of getting the crap beat out of them.
  and yet no one is stoping it.

 

Beetle did his part.
He spent some money at the sidewalk cafes there. ;)

The day we stop aiding Israel you can start building camel pens.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: lazs2 on July 21, 2008, 08:11:47 AM
If we are going to give aid to any country I would want it to be Israel.

Probly the people I admire the most of all the countries we give aid to.  When it comes to dealing with evil the US needs to always look to Israel for the answers.   

lazs
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: avionix on July 21, 2008, 08:36:18 AM
Quote
When it comes to dealing with evil the US needs to always look to Israel for the answers.   

Spot on.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism since they declared statehood in 1948.  We could learn something from them.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Cthulhu on July 21, 2008, 08:37:09 AM
Actually, I think I used some of the 30% made here at home.....

 ;)
I get mine from Hugo Chavez. :D
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: hlbly on July 21, 2008, 01:00:50 PM
Why should we support the only democratic free nation in the area ? What we should do is learn to keep or word and be allies like the British are to us .
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Pooh21 on July 21, 2008, 01:55:58 PM
hows 40billion for Aids in africa grab you? thats the newest waste of our money. At least the Israelis do usefulthings with it.Although the latest exchanging 5 live terrorists for 2 wormy corpses. that was dumb.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: avionix on July 21, 2008, 02:23:49 PM
Just imagine if that had been your loved one though.  I dont think that they should have let that guy go.  Find some other form of exchange.  Unfortunately, I think he will be back at it soon.  Maybe Mossad will have a little "chat" with him.   :D
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: evenhaim on July 21, 2008, 04:15:25 PM
hows 40billion for Aids in africa grab you? thats the newest waste of our money. At least the Israelis do usefulthings with it.Although the latest exchanging 5 live terrorists for 2 wormy corpses. that was dumb.
dumb by your logic maybe ;) There is a no body left behind policy here, and at least the familys have closure, I give the released prisoners a month tops to live, especially that sob kantar.
Title: Re: forign aid lol what a joke
Post by: Angus on July 21, 2008, 04:38:38 PM
From an outside standpoint, I'd point out that the USA (300 million people?) supporting Israel (stamp-sized with 6 million people or so) is a clever move in international politics.
It has it's toll though, since some neighbour states and folks (including the palestinians) thereby look at the USA as an enemy.
I recall the first TV shots from the muslim world after the twin tower attacks, - they were from Palestine where people cheered while burning the U.S. flag. And now they want...money.
The Israeli settled on a patch of land after WW2. They had some support for starters, and as a downside they were swamped with hostility.
They worked hard, and made up. The others, not as well.
(although this is a complicated matter)
As Lazs put it:
"If we are going to give aid to any country I would want it to be Israel.

Probly the people I admire the most of all the countries we give aid to.  When it comes to dealing with evil the US needs to always look to Israel for the answers.   

lazs"

Well, Lazs, exactly. Well, I'm not american, but anyway... :aok