Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hazed- on May 14, 2001, 10:54:00 PM
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I was reading a post in here talking about the suicide bomber types who just dive in destroy a few things and die then respawn and do it again.
Although this isnt a big problem (we dont really see it that often) I think we should be punished a little more for deaths.
What form this punishment would take im not sure but i feel we really need to encourage survival.
some ideas ive had: (not thought out just ideas) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
whatever plane you do the kamakazi attack in is unavailable for your next flight.(this would at leastmake the dive dweebs use a plane they dont like (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
the reward for surviving is MUCH higher than if you die.(perks etc)
Give a Special reward for those that mantain excellent K/D ratios, maybe bonus perks at tours end for top pilots? (my K/d not so good but why try to live more? other than a number in a score what incentive is there?)
ok so they aint such great ideas but lets try to make survival(even bailing and living) worthwhile.
if you knew that landing would get you 3 or 3 times the perks it might encourage more realistic flying and discourage treating AH as a quake type game.
chute shooting would become more common though i bet (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
maybe penalties for chute killers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hazed
9./JG54
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-15-2001).]
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Allow only early war planes to take off from forward fields -- except allow ANY plane to take off from any field where it is safely landed. Rewards staying alive.
Allow "Aces" with a kill streak of (insert number) to take off with any plane from any field. Rewards kill streaks.
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I say we go for true realism in this game. If you die you never get to play again. Now that would REALLY be hard core simming! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
<GDR>
Mav
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Boooooooooooooooooooooring.
-- Todd/DMF
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You get my vote. Returning to base should give a BIG bonus. That will influence to better performance for all.
Maybe dying should make you loose all points or perks for that ride. That would give less incentive for kamikaze pilots.
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The possibility of losing perk points would not deter me at all from flying the way I like to fly. I expect that this would hold for everyone else who realizes that this is, ultimately, just a game.
-- Todd/DMF
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I know,
Let's make all the newbies fly only 202s!
It doesn't matter if they leave after the first day, more will come!
Personally, I love the Polesti Style attacks.
Strategically and tactically the are often very effective. They are much more exciting to execute, watch, engage, etc.
They also have been putting folks back into bombers. Something that AH has desperately needed.
<S> to all low-level Polesti Style Buff Drivers!
eskimo
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Lets see:
If I de-ack a field with B26B, then bail, I get a whopping 1.25 points. If I lose all my points for not RTB'ing, I get 0 points. Hmmm, doesn't seem like it would change much as it stands now.
How about making the fields uncapturable until ALL hangars and structures are down?
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Questionable if the guys with real high kill to death (10 to 1) or more are flying in a way that is any more realisic than the hangerkazi types. I think they are both extremes that dont really enhance the game. One cares so much for the mission that they are willing to pave the objective with thier aluminum. The other could care less for any mission, strictly pick off the straggelers. There is no realism in either extreme. A change that favoured one form over the other would be counter productive.
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A suggestion for fighter sorties:
If you die:
-no kills recorded for you on that sortie
-no points or perks recorded for you on that sortie
-previous plane or ride not available for next sortie
If you bail out:
-kills recorded
-no points or perks
If you ditch:
-kills recorded
-1/2 of the points and perks recorded
ONLY if you land the sortie:
-kills recorded
-full points and perks recorded
How many recless HOs would we see? How many times would 5 guys blow their alt to dive after a single enemy at low? How much more AH would be a sim and how much less AerialQuake? This would give a new meaning on shooting the chutes as well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
In any case surviving and trying to save one's AC would be encouraged a lot.
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BlauKreuz
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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BlauK,
You realize of corse, that would put perk planes completely out of reach for even veteran (non-ace) pilots such as myself, let alone newbies.
Don't you think that limiting a whole section of the game to the likes of Citabria, Mitsu and Ripsnort (not that they should be penalized for being good) is kind of silly?
I land as often as I can, what you propose would actually have the opposite effect on me from the one you desire. If you put things that far out of reach, I'll simply ignore the perks and the scoring, maybe even being more reckless. I already fly a wide mix of aircraft, so denying me my last ride wouldn't affect me at all.
What it comes down to is that the rewards of being good and/or playing a huge number of hours per tour should not be over-rewarded. This has to be a game that works for as many players as possible, not one that caters to the elite and the lifeless.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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LOL Karnak, if you only knew me. I'm average at best. I'm sure that even mentioning my name in the same sentence as Mitsu and Cita is an insult to them.
<S>
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I am for any idea that gets more people to bail out. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Sling322
Fat Drunk "Chute Shooting" Bastards
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My biggest problem with this; I tend to stick with one aircraft, my flatmate flies the same aircraft for an entire TOD.
Secondly, you'd have to put a time limit on how long before a pilot can have his steed back, because otherwise the 'dweeb' would just grab a different plane and smash that on the runway.
Other people have suggested making all players start from a back-line airfield and to get to a new airfield you have to fly there, when you die, you get reset to home-base.
Trouble with that is, you have 35 minutes during your lunch break, you log on. The front line is a 20 minute flight away, so you gotta fly there, land, refuel, and take off again - what happens if you get vulched taxiing to a halt on the runway?
K
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Yes suicide bombers should be punished.
I think Jennifer Lopez should spank me if I were to do such a thing.
It might take a few spankings for me to mend my wicked ways.
(j/k)
Nexus
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A short delay (say 2 mins) before you can spawn after a death. It is not horrible, but would give some benefit to staying alive. Besides, it would give you a chance for a bath room break, or at least time to grab another beer.
[This message has been edited by Phantom121 (edited 05-15-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Phantom121 (edited 05-15-2001).]
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Ok seriously....
Perhaps, limiting each player to 10 of each aircraft type per 24 hour period.
Personally, if I die more than 4 times per day... I'm having a bad day - time to log.
But really, does HTC have the time and inclination to implement something like this?
Who really cares about the kamakazis?
Nexus
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Any change that forces players to fly a particular way, be it conservatively or liberally, is a recipe for losing customers. It's unfortunate that kamikazi bombers and reckless pilots without a shred of self-preservation annoy some of you guys. I'm sure that K/D-obsessed, overly-conservative cherry pickers annoy those reckless pilots as well.
Just so long as we maintain that equilibrium, everything's great.
-- Todd/DMF
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If you kill em before they start in on the bomb run, then there ain't no such thing as a kamikaze buff.
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Just returning to base should give you a BIG bonus. Let the rest as it is.
LUPO
1° Gruppo Caccia
"Asso di Bastoni"
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Not really worried about kamakaze (heck that is real anyway), check my score - K/D about .4 so I ain't careful (I thought getting killed was how you rearmed or refueled), but a small penalty for death is something thats makes sense.
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Sorry start putting a time limit on when I can fly next I am gone. I pay to fly not sit in the hanger watching others take off. Taking off from a rear base? Who thought up this one? Jesus you guys are becoming perk nutso. I don't care if I can fly a tempest or a 152 or a Chog. Limiting planes to me means limiting fun. And right now the fun is running very thin.
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Hi All,
I come down with Phantom121 on this. I agree death should be penalised (and I die a lot). But I don't think losing perk points (Just means the gap between the Aces and the rest gets bigger) or the limiting of being able to use the same plane after a death a good idea. (I have died in more goons than I care to remember most of which would not have happened if others had done there job on the field correctly in the first place). I think say a 2 minute delay before launching is possible in the event of a death & 1 min in the event of a ditch is the best way to go.
JMO
TTFN
snafu
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I think the death delay is a crock. Try to think back when you first started playing this game. If you had to wait 2 minutes for every death you would spend MOST of your game time waiting to be "reborn". Now how much would you be willing to pay to sit in from of a dark monitor for the majority of your game time????? That is exactly what you are asking (or demanding) every new prospective AH customer to do.
Think also to having your bases reduced to a few by the the other countrys players so that you are constantly being gang banged. Hell, ANYONE could vulch you with plenty of alt knowing you have to wait 2 minutes to respawn. Imagine trying to keep a base capture from being successful if you had to wait. Think this through a bit guys and I think you can see this is not a viable solution.
Mav
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If living is the primary goal, why fight?
HiTech
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If you live, you get to fight more. Dead folks don't accomplish much. Additionally, survival is the PRIMARY goal of every soldier in combat. The fact that it isn't always achievable is irrelevant.
Mav (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Make the other poor SOB die for his country.
(paraphrased from Gen. Patton's speech)
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 05-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by Maverick:
If you live, you get to fight more. Dead folks don't accomplish much. Additionally, survival is the PRIMARY goal of every soldier in combat. The fact that it isn't always achievable is irrelevant.
Mav (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Make the other poor SOB die for his country.
(paraphrased from Gen. Patton's speech)
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 05-15-2001).]
Its a game i pay to fly not sit and wonder when my next sortie might be. Sometimes i wonder what these people are smoking that come up with these ideas.
MENTOR: Ok lets sit here, yeah we might take off from this back base in a minute or two.
NewBIE: Hell yeah this is so cool sitting here anticipating when we might take off next from this rear base 150 miles from the real action in a different plane that isn't as easy to learn but who cares.
MENTOR: you are so right there hahaha.
NEWBIE: what was the best was getting bounced by those 6 51's I didnt even know they were there 45 minutes into this flight.
MENTOR: yeah caught me napping as well was outside BBQing the burgers.
NEWBIE: This just rocks, jesus!!!! where the hell did those Dora's come from?
MENTOR: Huh whats that? Oh while you were out to the store some FW's snuck up on us I sent you a message to drop alt and bug out of there. Guess you missed it huh?
NEWBIE: Sure did well I'll be flying in 2 minutes and I'll meet you at the front lines.
MENTOR: "whispers to self" Fat chance in hell"
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Originally posted by AG Sachsenberg:
Its a game i pay to fly not sit and wonder when my next sortie might be. Sometimes i wonder what these people are smoking that come up with these ideas.
MENTOR: Ok lets sit here, yeah we might take off from this back base in a minute or two.
NewBIE: Hell yeah this is so cool sitting here anticipating when we might take off next from this rear base 150 miles from the real action in a different plane that isn't as easy to learn but who cares.
MENTOR: you are so right there hahaha.
NEWBIE: what was the best was getting bounced by those 6 51's I didnt even know they were there 45 minutes into this flight.
MENTOR: yeah caught me napping as well was outside BBQing the burgers.
NEWBIE: This just rocks, jesus!!!! where the hell did those Dora's come from?
MENTOR: Huh whats that? Oh while you were out to the store some FW's snuck up on us I sent you a message to drop alt and bug out of there. Guess you missed it huh?
NEWBIE: Sure did well I'll be flying in 2 minutes and I'll meet you at the front lines.
MENTOR: "whispers to self" Fat chance in hell"
Ag Sach,
Just in case you missed it. This is what I think of the "death time limit" theory. The post you quoted was a response to HT.
I think the death delay is a crock. Try to think back when you first started playing this game. If you had to wait 2 minutes for every death you would spend MOST of your game time waiting to be "reborn". Now how much would you be willing to pay to sit in from of a dark monitor for the majority of your game time????? That is exactly what you are asking (or demanding) every new prospective AH customer to do.
Think also to having your bases reduced to a few by the the other countrys players so that you are constantly being gang banged. Hell, ANYONE could vulch you with plenty of alt knowing you have to wait 2 minutes to respawn. Imagine trying to keep a base capture from being successful if you had to wait. Think this through a bit guys and I think you can see this is not a viable solution.
Mav
A game "feature" that MAKES you sit staring at a dark screen (or "penalty box) waiting to be able to play again is simply STUPID.
Mav
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 05-15-2001).]
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Hey I didn't say change base or plane , just a short delay. One or two minutes. Takes longer than that to land rearm on pad and launch again. Give you a chance to check the map and see if your efforts could be better utilized somewhere else. Just a chance to catch your breath. It would slow down the respawn at a base being captured. I mean this ain't a death sentence - chill out. Hell it was just a thought.
to HiTech:
Having been a Marine for 10 years and two combat tours in Viet Nam, I can promise you the real life goal of most warriors is to survive. My Drill Instructor said "The Marine Corps does not want you to die for your country. We want you to make the enemy die for his country!"
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Phantom121,
This isn't a war, its a game. A game has to be fun. Staring at a blank screen waiting for my turn in the penalty box to be over is not fun. If it isn't fun it isn't serving the purpose that I am paying money for. If it isn't serving the purpose that I am paying money for I will stop paying money for it.
I am not alone.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Your screen is not blank just because you can't launch.
I am not sure I understand the problem. If you are in a fight and need to RTB for ammo, fuel, damage, whatever, it is going to take 4 or 5 minutes to fly back and land, then 4 or 5 minutes to return to the fight. You surely are not able to land and refuel at a base under heavy attack. If you get killed and pick another base to launch from, it will take you several minutes to return to the fight. 60 seconds of planning prior might make you a more "valuable" asset to your teammates. The only time a short delay is going to make significant change is the immediate respawning at a base being vulched. Hell, the eternity you have to wait while the enjine starts and before the plane will roll (while every vulcher in the area is manuevering to kill you) seems worse than a short wait. I would rather a little longer wait in the tower and shorter startup time on the runway. Tho, I guess just adding a few seconds to startup time would be effective in deterring guys from trying to respawn at a vulched base. But, I don't think that was the point of the thread.
The question was about there being a little more penalty for dieing. Having to use another plane or start from another base are both much worse than a short wait. If not 1 minute maybe 30 second (you have to wail that long on the rearm pad).
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Drill Instructor said "The Marine Corps does not want you to die for your country. We want you to make the enemy die for his country!"
Phantom this statement and mine are not opposed to eachother, Yours states the primary goal is to make the enemy die and that ,in the end, is my point If you put to much emphisis on living, i.e. make it the primary goal, what happens is lots of poeple will not engage unless they have a very clear advantage, and if there is a chance of dieing they will run. This does not make for a fun game.
Wanting to live has a roll, but if there is to much cost in dieing, it does not make for fun.
HiTech
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as i said i was only throwing in ideas without thinking them out too much and as rip hitech mav and others have pointed out the delay thing WOULD be a pile of crock (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
what i was trying to do was get a few of us to come up with some ideas on how to make this game rewarding for those that manage to stay alive.
This is NOT because i stay alive a lot! check my K/D ratio its pretty lame.
BUT I do feel that those that do stay alive for sortie after sortie SHOULD GAIN to the extent that a player who is trying to stay alive has the incentive to try to think tactically e.g. before engagement think about where you are going to egress etc
The way people bite my head off ( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) for just trying to throw ideas in the pot is a little rough.
Mav we've had our run ins on the BB but i must admit you are nothing if not consistant in your views and i can plainly see you prefer the faster paced furball type game.Whether this is due to constraints on your time online i dont know but i appreciate you would rather not see introductions that limit your choice of action on the limited time you can spend online.Its not my place to dictate what i think you should do on AH but i do ask that you appreciate i spend a lot of time on AH and would like certain bonuses for unusually good sorties etc.
Doesnt anybody remember the basis of games? the carrot at the end of the stick? thats what makes the donkey move (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As AH is now I dont really need to stay alive in a non perked plane.Wheres the incentive to play the more tactical or strategic level?
Well lets work out a compromise? how about we reward those that stay alive and have a low death count with extra choices? how about 5 sorties without death in a row wins a prize of some kind? choice of a special loadout or use of a different plane or just big perk bonus?(bit boring i know but hell im not a games designer! I just want goals to accomplish)
Goal and reward is the basis of games.
money, prizes, bonuses for a good job well done.
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Hazed
9./JG54
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-16-2001).]
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The problem seems to be trying to please everyone, thus not really pleasing anyone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) ... kinda like an average Hollywood movie. Many recent boxed sims have been ruined with similar marketing demands.
It is hard to define what is FUN. For some surviving a fight and escaping home with just one kill or one assist and then rearming and heading back to fight is fun. For others it is necessary to get at least one kill every sortie regardless of one's own life and to crash the plane after out of ammo to get faster back to the fight.
These two opposite ways of having FUN in a WW2 flight sim actually spoil the fun for both types if they happen to join the same fight.
Perks are also a complex thing. Perks are no reward for many pilots because they just dont want to fly the perk planes. Also the better guys earn more perks which then allow them to fly better planes more often... that is unbalancing the game IMO.
Just to reconsider my earlier point proposal, leave the perks out of it. Let them all have their perks. Those pilots who are concerned of their K/D should have their fun though. Make it show in the scores and punish for deaths. Furball/arcade guys dont care of their lives, so obviously they dont care of their scores either. It makes no difference to them if they dont get points when dieing. (I suppose their kills even in death would have to be counted though)
The absolutely best solution IMO would be to have two separate arenas!!! Furball Arena and Historical Arena.
I would rather play a game with people who play with similar rules. Now we have people playing chess and checkers in the same game.
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BlauKreuz
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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I'm sure the player paying Internet acces by the minute would be pleased to send you their bill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by hitech:
If you put to much emphisis on living, i.e. make it the primary goal, what happens is lots of poeple will not engage unless they have a very clear advantage, and if there is a chance of dieing they will run. This does not make for a fun game.
HiTech
Uhh.. ohhh... So are you basically saying that people should forget about what fighter pilots were taught about advantage and disengaging when they play AH???
I have to confess that I never engage if I am in a disadvantage, unless the situation is desperate. If I get outnumbered I try to work my way towards friendly planes. Situations and advantages change rapidly and unexpectedly in flight combat though. IMO that is the challenge and fun in it. So am I not fun for the game then?
Should I understand the above statement so that AH is meant to be more a "fun game" than a "WW2 flight sim" ??
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BlauKreuz
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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Jesus people its a game. If I die so be it. I get a new plane and take off and do the same thing I was just doing. Maybe they should introduce electroshock Joysticks everytime you die in a plane you get shocked to toejam for 2 minutes. Then if you can still use that side of your body you may up in a new plane.
Please do not distort real life actions with a game. Oh and Hitech I owned your butt in that Spittie last night (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Don't mess with my A5 when I get a hot streak going. Have to say this was fun as hell, those were some good furballs downlow. Watching you guys plink away at me with 30 cals "can we say sounded like pinball machine on my end", and have my squad m8 come up and wax both of ya from the target fixation.
<S>
[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 05-16-2001).]
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Blauk: Please don't miss understand me. You nicly left out this part.
Wanting to live has a roll, but if there is to much cost in dieing, it does not make for fun.
Take a carfull look at our scoring system for fighters.
1. K/d
This catagory premotes living.
2. K/s
This catagory promtes both wanting to live and wanting to get kills. When you factor in the rearm pads and victory message, it leans toward the wanting to live V getting kills.
3. K/time
This one does not promote living at all.
4. Hit %
Not much one way or the other.
5. Points.
Waited heavly toward wanting to live. It takes 4 times as many kills if you die v if you land.
The perk system is also layed out both ways.
You get extra points for landing.
If flying a Perk plane living is everything.
Blauk, your free to fly as you wish.
The score system is set up so that multiple flying styles are rewarded. It's what allows you to find a fight. But always keep in mind no one flying style is better or worse then the other by it's self, If you have no death penalty, the reward feeling for a kill go's down. To much death penalty and its hard to get someone to engage.
Many years ago AW tried a one life to live arena. Althow the concept sounds great,(man just think of the tension and realism, just like the real war) it became very aparent after a few days what was wrong with this concept.
In real life the mission out ways your risk of dieing,it's what forces people to engage, just like in senarios.
In the arena you have a choice to not engage any time you wish.
Making death to much of a penalty tips the scales to far in the direction of not wanting to engage.
HiTech
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HiTech:
I really appreciate your reply. I am not a realism fanatic. I think the game is fun. I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with the game. I was merely agreeing with Hazed that there could be some merits to a slight increase in the death penalty. If everyone starts flying completely "real" would we get maybe 1 or 2 kills a month. That is certainly not going to be fun. I agree that several of the scoring items are weighted to living. I was mostly saying that it takes a somewhat long time to enter a fight from a nearby base and forcing you to re up from farther away would be really bad. Forcing choice of a different plane is even worse. A "short" time penalty (say equal to the rearm penalty) seems to me to be a reasonable compromise, but obviously that really bothers some. Heck, as I said I am on the low end of living and prefer to re up as soon as possible. I often auger rather than fly back, rearm-refuel, and then return to fight. I hate the "long" delay for engine startup waiting for the vulchers to kill me. It is just that in the heat of the battle I often make poor decisions as to how I might best be of use to my country. A short delay might help. I think I will try it personally for the rest of the tour and see if I have more fun if I better plan my actions. Anyway, I enjoyed the discussion.
Diferent subject: K/D
Any chance to get D = "you were killed" and not you bailed. I mean in real life my pilots bailed and returned to fight. Some were shot down several times. While bailing affects perks it does not help kill per death. Maybe that would encourage some of us to try to live.
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Phatom: Pros and cons of that.
Pros.
People will bail quiker when there plane is not flyable. This will taper the i'll just ride my plane down hopeing the other guy dies first, and thus not letting him get the kill.
Con:
1. People will tend to bail before getting attacked since it dosn't cost them a death.
2. Death would not reflect how many times you were shot down.
Any others?
HiTech
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Phantom121,
I am one of the guys who attacked the time out after dying. In the time I have been playing AH I have intentionally augured a total of 1 time. I augured an A6M5b after deacking a Vehicle Field that I was solo capturing during off-peak hours.
I always try to return to base. To me it is a vastly more satisfying experience if I land and turn the engine off at a friendly field, even scraping a pulverized kite along the runway is enjoyable because it means I brought her home despite the best efforts of my opponents.
However I am not that good and I land far fewer flights than I would like. In addition some of my most enjoyable flights have been ones in which I dove into suicidal odds in an attempt to make a difference, sacrificing myself for the cause. The fact that I won't get to land is my penalty for doing that, I don't need a simulation of the fact that in real life I'd be finding out if there's an afterlife or not.
I fly to live, but I also fly to kill. I don't need any artificial "enhancements" to tell me how to fly.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-16-2001).]
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Some how this thread got hijacked into a Death/Life issue.
How to penalize the suicide bombers was the original intent.
Perhaps limiting a person to 7 fighters, 7 bombers, 7 boats, and 7 GVs per 2 hour period would solve the carelessly reckless.
But then again - that might just spoil the fun.
After all this is just a game.
Nexus
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HiTech wrote:
It takes 4 times as many kills if you die v if you land.
Thanks for that info HT, and for your comments. Truly appreciated. This has not been apparent to many of us before I think.
The question is how much to penalize for death. I dont think that people would stop engaging if the penalty was higher though. People are playing AH to engage in fights, not only to fly around safely. The question is about how much to risk, when to risk and how to risk. One can score goals (kills) in a ball game and still lose (die) the game and come home with 0 points.
HiTech wrote:
Pros.
People will bail quiker when there plane is not flyable. This will taper the i'll just ride my plane down hopeing the other guy dies
first, and thus not letting him get the kill.
I think the kill should be awarded to the guy who deserved it even though he bailed out. Why does it have to depend on if he is still inside his plane or not? Same thing if he dies first. Why is it a common thing for closest pilots to get to steal the kill. Certainly many WW2 pilots were credited with a kill even though they died on the same sortie.
Con:
1. People will tend to bail before getting attacked since it dosn't cost them a death.
2. Death would not reflect how many times you were shot down.
I think it would be good to separate losses of planes and losses of lives.
The enemy gets a kill even though the pilot bails out and survives. IMO bailing out has to cost you compared to landing, but dieing has to cost more that surviving by bailing out! If all planes had at least a small perk value, bailing out for nothing would be penalized by losing the perks for that plane. Kill scores could be tied strictly to pilot lives and perks strictly to plane costs.
Could the stats be separated for losing one's life and for just losing the plane??
Finally,
I dont believe in time penalties or plane amount limits with pilot deaths. There are some people who pay their bills and want to play quake with planes.... let them have their fun. Just dont praise it by awarding points for it. Suicide-taxi-bombers and intentional suicide crashes to get faster back in air in a new plane are from some other genre than WW2 flight sim.
AG,
Certainly this is a game... Exaggerations like electric shocks and 1-life games (burn the cd after death) etc. are just stupid provocations. Every game is based on some concept where it draws its rules and encouraged actions. many things are adjusted to entertaining level though. If the concept is WW2 flight combat, why should the death not be an issue?
If you die, no points!! Learn to stay alive. Losing a plane is never as bad as losing a pilot.
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BlauKreuz
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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Points:
1. My mention of the rear-base concept (from way back in WarBirds) wasn't a suggestion, it was highlighting how bad some of these punishment ideas are.
2. Everyone plays differently and imposing punishments rapidly eliminates many styles of play; for example, if you restrict plane types per death, players who enjoy flying a single craft exclusively are cut out of the loop.
3. This is a game, we're here to fly and have fun. If you build "punishment" into the game, the little technical hiccups that happen, lag, net deaths, etc, all become beyond frustrating because the game now spanks you for being on the receiving end of them.
4. Punishing players for death MASSIVELY hurts newbies, massively yanks up the learning curve, and massively discourages players from solo-engagements, and massively ENCOURAGES gang-bangs for safety.
Reward engagement and survival.
For most of us, losing our steed is punishment enough in itself - you only need to see the angst that flares up on ch 1.
K
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Originally posted by BlauK:
HiTech wrote:
It takes 4 times as many kills if you die v if you land.
Thanks for that info HT, and for your comments. Truly appreciated. This has not been apparent to many of us before I think.
yes blauk i didnt realise the score was 4 times as high for landing either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) in fact i still cant work out quite how the scoring thing works (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) lol
Hitech thanks for the replies.I can see now you are trying to do what im ranting on about (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) only i couldnt really tell it makes such a difference to land safe as i dont check my perks or score after every mission only those that i think 'wow i did well...wonder how mwny perks i got ..'
score i only check after a few days of flying so its hard to tell what scored what.
Maybe after a succesfull landing we could get a breif message with the sortie score?
If score is the main object of me playing it would be nice if on a death or a landing it said 'you survived with a score of xxx' or 'you have died and your score is zilch'(hehe).
again thanks all for some interesting reading.
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Hazed
9./JG54