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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Banshee7 on July 21, 2008, 11:35:18 AM

Title: military question
Post by: Banshee7 on July 21, 2008, 11:35:18 AM
Ok, so i mow a cemetery in a town close to where i live.  And in that cemetery there is a headstone for a guy that died in combat in Germany.  It has a picture of a plane (kind of like a cartoon) and it has wings under his name.  My question is what is a Tech Sgt.?  What was his role in WW2?
Title: Re: military question
Post by: NoBaddy on July 21, 2008, 11:41:12 AM
Short for Technical Sgt. In today's Army, they are called Specialists. If I remember correctly, a TSgt is the equivalent of a Spec5. I have to admit that I have slept a few times since I last cared about the difference. :)
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Banshee7 on July 21, 2008, 11:42:17 AM
What was his role in WW2?  I'm ranking illiterate so i have no clue.  Did he fly or was he ground crew or what? lol im clueless
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Spikes on July 21, 2008, 11:58:10 AM
Not that I really know but I highly doubt he flew.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Old Sport on July 21, 2008, 12:08:35 PM
Could have been aircrew on buffs - maybe flight engineer, I think radio operators were tech sgts, doubtless other technical MOS's were aircrew as well.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Jenks on July 21, 2008, 12:13:18 PM
I'm surmising that he flew in the Army Air Corp.  He may have been a Gunner on a bomber, or he may have been ground crew, say,  a plane mech. or a load master on a cargo plane. All speculation of course.

When I was in the USAF a Tech. Sgt. was an  E6 one rank above Staff Sgt.  That has changed now I think,  when I was in (72 to 77) E4 was Sgt. but now I think they call them Senior Airman. In the Army E6 is Gunnery Sgt. I think.  Been a long time now. :)

Maybe see if someone at the local paper can dig some info on the gentleman.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: acfireguy26 on July 21, 2008, 12:17:57 PM
In the Army E6 is Gunnery Sgt. I think.  Been a long time now. :)

E6 in the Army is a Staff SGT (SSG) Gunnery SGT or Gunny is a Marine rank it is pay grade E7.
http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/enlisted.html
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Old Sport on July 21, 2008, 12:33:42 PM
DB, btw, if he was KIA - died in combat - then it seems possible to me that the headstone might have the unit he was serving with when he gave the ultimate sacrifice. Next time you mow there, write down all the info, if there is any, and do an online search.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Captfish on July 21, 2008, 12:35:10 PM
Technical Sergeant was renamed Sergeant First Class in 1948.

I think if he was an airmen then he would have been a radio operator. I not a 100% on this, but all the airmen I look up that were Tech Sgt's seem to have been radio operators.
If you get his name we can look up what he did.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: hlbly on July 21, 2008, 12:49:29 PM
Don't discount that he may have flown my uncle otis was a sgt. flew B-17's in Italy . his copilot was a major .
Title: Re: military question
Post by: PFactorDave on July 21, 2008, 01:16:11 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_Sergeant
Title: Re: military question
Post by: texasmom on July 21, 2008, 02:58:57 PM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1560988371/sr=1-1/qid=1216670279/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1216670279&sr=1-1&seller=
"They Also Flew"
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Guppy35 on July 21, 2008, 03:16:03 PM
Name please. Best way to know is to figure out who he was first :)

Should be easy enough to track down the info base on the info from the marker.  Birthday, Date of Death, Full name, rank etc.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: RATTFINK on July 21, 2008, 03:19:39 PM
It sounds like he was an engineer.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Guppy35 on July 21, 2008, 04:25:13 PM
Banshee gave me the last name of the guy and the location of the Cemetary.  With a little digging today, and a lot of luck.  Here is what we found.


T/Sgt David M Cotten  Serial Number 14134597
Top Turret Gunner on a 323rd BS, 91st BG, 80th AF B17G  #42-31542  Squadron code OR-T  "Bunky"
Pilot was  Lt. Norman Burwick

While bombing the airfield at Lechfield, Germany, "Bunky" collided with another B17 over the target.  The other B17 went into a spin but recovered with all the crew bailing out over Switzerland.  "Bunky" was not so lucky and came apart aft of the crew door and went into a flat spin.  While the 91st BG history says all were killed in the crash, it appears that David Cotten got out injured and died as a POW as he is listed in POW records.
He was born in 1922 in Mississippi and entered the service in Crockett County, Tennessee


Crew list-Crew was only 9 men at this point with the radio room 50 gone and the Radio Op manning a waist gun
BURWICK, NORMAN N Pilot
WAY, FRANK J Co-Pilot
SANDERS, CARL  Navigator
STEELHAMMER, ALBERT E  Bombardier
COTTEN, DAVID M  Top Turret
GEMMILL, MELVIN A   Ball Turret
BELTZ, GEORGE R  Radio Operator
CARLSON, HARRY S Waist Gunner
SMITH, GORDON D Tail gunner




Title: Re: military question
Post by: Banshee7 on July 21, 2008, 04:27:10 PM
This is why i always ask Dan questions and not you n00bs!  WTFG Mr. Corky, sir!
Title: Re: military question
Post by: BillyD on July 21, 2008, 04:28:54 PM
 :salute
Title: Re: military question
Post by: hlbly on July 21, 2008, 05:05:44 PM
guppy could you find anything out with just the name ? i also know he was commisioned just before discharge . Was shot down over italy escaped to switzerland   .
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Mustaine on July 21, 2008, 08:41:14 PM
Dan you are sick. I don't know what you do for a living, but you should at minimum have a honorary position somewhere as a military historian. :aok



If I may ask your expertise on one?

see here:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-6386088.html


Peterleus, Arthur W.
Best friends Grandfather, he was on the Polesti raid, flew in the 389th, B24 named "Blondes Away" (there are a few of them named that)
I have never been able to find solid information though he is mentioned by name in a Polesti book

he is in this picture, I forget which one (he may be 3rd from right top row

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z125/JB73Mustaine/BLONDSAWAY1.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z125/JB73Mustaine/BLONDSAWAY2.jpg)

I found those online, but the site no longer exists, and so it seems has his record.

He said he did tons of missions 30+ according to him.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Chalenge on July 21, 2008, 09:09:05 PM
Technical Sergeant in WWII was the equivalent of Corporal but with technical training. A&Ps, A&Ms, radio directors, radar operators that sort of thing. The grade changed in 1948 and the rank was harder to attain requiring more time in and experience in technical areas and also no longer had much to do with airman duties.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Guppy35 on July 21, 2008, 09:42:02 PM
Dan you are sick. I don't know what you do for a living, but you should at minimum have a honorary position somewhere as a military historian. :aok



If I may ask your expertise on one?

see here:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-6386088.html


Peterleus, Arthur W.
Best friends Grandfather, he was on the Polesti raid, flew in the 389th, B24 named "Blondes Away" (there are a few of them named that)
I have never been able to find solid information though he is mentioned by name in a Polesti book

he is in this picture, I forget which one (he may be 3rd from right top row

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z125/JB73Mustaine/BLONDSAWAY1.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z125/JB73Mustaine/BLONDSAWAY2.jpg)

I found those online, but the site no longer exists, and so it seems has his record.

He said he did tons of missions 30+ according to him.

The book you  want is "Black Sunday" by Michael Hill about the Ploesti Raid.   "Blondes Away" was a B24D of the 567th BS, 389th BG.  They flew in the last element of the 389th on the Ploesti run.  The 389th suffered the lightest losses that day and were the most effective on the bomb run although they initially missed their turn.  Lloyd Hughes of the 389th got the MoH that day and they were behind him. 

Quoting from the Michael Hill book

"On the right side of the element, Lt. William Nading took "Blondes Away' towards the refinary at 275 feet.  Co-pilot  Lt. Horace Christensen recalled 'The Germans were ready with their defenses.  The German gun crews were firing at point blank range.  From the vantage of our tail end position we could see airplanes getting hit by ground fire.  The third aircraft, pilot Hughes, ahead of us had been hit and was burning, but continued through the bomb release under control.  My pilot and I talked for about two seconds and decided to go through the smoke and flames.  We headed directly for the cracking plant at an altitude about halfway up the Boiler House smokestack'.   They cleared the tallest stack by about twenty five feet as Lt. Herbert Newman, Bombardier, dropped the bombs in the spreading inferno and yelled, 'Lets get the hell out of here!'  He had good reason to exhort the pilots to make tracks.  The fuzes on their bombs would detonate in about 45 seconds."

Crew is listed as:

Pilot  William D Nading
Co-Pilot Horace H Christensen
Navigator Charles W Weinberg
Bombardier Herbert J Newman
Radio Op  Stanley Brayouich
Top Turret Allen L Nix
Waist Gunner Lloyd Calkins
Waist Gunner Victor Leyva
Tail Gunner Joseph Fussi
Ball Turret Arthur W. Peterleus

Code letter on "Blondes Away" was H

I imagine he's in one of those low tail end birds in this photo taken from one of the leading 389th 24s over the target.  Note how low they are.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Ploesti.jpg)
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Guppy35 on July 21, 2008, 09:43:09 PM
guppy could you find anything out with just the name ? i also know he was commisioned just before discharge . Was shot down over italy escaped to switzerland   .

Don't know.  Couldn't hurt to try though :)
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Masherbrum on July 21, 2008, 09:50:05 PM
Dan is about as close to Saint on here, as one can be.   Why?   He not only enjoys making fun of the very game we enjoy playing, but he has another good trait.

In the over 6 years I've been playing AH, he's tracked down hundreds of these requests.   Yes, I said Saint.   You're a credit to gentlemen Dan.   you're also a damn fine friend that I will meet up with, one day.    :salute
Title: Re: military question
Post by: jollyFE on July 21, 2008, 10:09:11 PM
TXmom..that book is great.was required reading when I went through the NCO Academy a few years ago.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: A8balls on July 21, 2008, 10:33:38 PM
Also make note that many NCOs served as pilots as well. I knew enlisted pilots when I was in the Marines. Most were offered commissions to 1lt or Cpt, but the hard-core NCOs usually refused them. NCOs flew fighters, transports and bombers during WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam in combat and support roles. I had my turn-up and taxi license in the Marines while a Corporal. While stationed at MCAS Cherry point, I was "grounded" for 30 days for taxiing a RF-4B at almost 200 kts, on a closed runway, going to the turn-up ramp :D. I believe the Marines discontinued enlisted pilots in 1973 or 1974.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Delirium on July 22, 2008, 12:39:22 AM
Dan is about as close to Saint on here, as one can be. 

Corky/Guppy/Dan has to be the most loved guy within AH... he doesn't take things seriously and will take the shirt off his back to help someone out.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Murdr on July 22, 2008, 06:17:50 AM
I just looked at this thread for the first time.  One person sprang to mind as being able to come up details on this veterens service quickly, before even reading any replies.

Any questions on why everyone and their brother shows up when Dan is harassed with petty nonsense on the boards?
Title: Re: military question
Post by: The Fugitive on July 22, 2008, 06:35:58 AM

Any questions on why everyone and their brother shows up when Dan is harassed with petty nonsense on the boards?

..... cause he pays us?    :devil
Title: Re: military question
Post by: hlbly on July 22, 2008, 08:32:24 AM
Otis Lee was his name . :salute
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Mustaine on July 22, 2008, 09:14:01 AM
<S> Dan great info!! I will point him this way to see.
Title: Re: military question
Post by: Masherbrum on July 22, 2008, 03:34:26 PM
I just looked at this thread for the first time.  One person sprang to mind as being able to come up details on this veterens service quickly, before even reading any replies.

Any questions on why everyone and their brother shows up when Dan is harassed with petty nonsense on the boards?

Damn right Murdr.