Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funkedup on July 06, 2001, 11:34:00 PM
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If there is "weight on wheels", weapons should be disabled. Thanks!
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001586 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001586)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001296 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001296)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001395 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001395)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001255 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001255)
You say something new, and I'll say something new.
AKDejaVu
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This time I agree with DejaVu, car-bombing must be allowed. The new retarded field-ack model makes insta-vulch attacks far too easy. All the acks are killed in a few seconds often by a single fighter, then its vulch till the M3/goon comes. Car-bombing is often the only defensive alternative after the VH is killed. Car-bombing must be allowed as it is one of the integral defensive tactics of this new AH.
What the hell have you done HTC............ :(
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I think they keep making small changes seeking the perfect mix. I'll bet they tweak the game some more next release.
Of course, it's been such a looooooooooong time since that last release. Wish they'd just put out a new revision every day. You'd think with that huge staff it would be no problem. :confused:
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I think when they put "feedback" in the forum description they meant feedback from users to the programmers regarding the game, not feedback from users to other users regarding posts in the forum. :)
[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Id like to input feedback, on the feedback to AKDV's feedback, regarding the original feeback on the issue of carbombing, fed back by Funked.
Gruntardz is a popsicle, and games the game. :eek:
[edit] I just read the thread on blowing up the ammo bunkers. That will fix em...
[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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With AH the way it is now, I do it proudly!
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Yah, Funk. It's like WAAAAY too much trouble to have to knock a few ammo bunkers while capturing a field. No ord = no carbombs.
I think we should just go back to the old deal where if you land a plane on the enemy runway the field is yours.
:p
Feedback? This Feedback?
"Main Entry: feed·back
Pronunciation: 'fEd-"bak
Function: noun
b : the transmission of evaluative or corrective information to the original or controlling source about an action, event, or process; also : the information so transmitted"
or the definition of feedback that is the source of pride for a chronic few?
"Main Entry: whine
Pronunciation: 'hwIn, 'wIn
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): whined; whin·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hwInan to whiz; akin to Old Norse hvIna to whiz
Date: 13th century
intransitive senses
2 : to complain with or as if with a whine"
Which one? ;)
I mean after all, in the last three tours, some guys have only flown ~ 214 hours. Guy like that MUST NOT be having fun, right? Only averaging about 2.5 hours a day online playing AH. Probably do it just to torture themselves.
Not only that, guy like that is getting NAILED by HTC with charges of 41 CENTS per hour of play! :eek:
Is that fair? ;)
[ 07-07-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
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Well, regardless of the arguments, it makes no sence that you can make MG's on bombers inop on the ground, yet allow them to drop bombloads to get the kills?
Matter fact, isn't that just like saying the MG's should be operational (in fact they would, much more than fused bombs) and "just kill the bomber hangArs."
Yeah, "Just kill the hangars", now I want operational MG's on the ground to piss off off everyone as I shoot all the troops.
Fix the carbomb gameplay mess.
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No No No Creamo! It doesn't work like that. You see, we need mg's disabled on the ground because it hurts gameplay. It really has nothing to do with realism.
We need car bombing disabled on the ground because it isn't realistic.. it has nothing to do with gameplay.
Sheesh.. its so painfully obvious.
AKDejaVu
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I'd gladly trade MGs active on the ground for disabling bombs.
There are 4 reasons why:
1. Real bombs are not active until they reach a certain altitude, speed, or are armed.
2. There is something seriously wrong with a lancaster spawning just to unload all it's bombs.
3. I've accidentally blown myself up by letting a bomb loose too low to the ground when trying to drop a DT on a pony. :)
4. AH tries to be somewhat realistic, and like it or not this would NEVER happen in Real-Life. Vulching and ground attack on the other hand was an everyday occurance. Though I think the Field acks are now probably a little too dumb, but at least they are that way at all fields.
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should make buff mg operable on ground
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I think both MG and bombs should be available on the ground. Both can be negated by destroying the ammo bunkers and the BH.
The problem with leveling a field before capture is that it takes at least 30 mins before it's up and completely operational. I wish that the time to repair captured bases was accelerated.
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Toad, you lost me completely. Surely you don't think posting a polite product improvement suggestion is whining? If so, then I am a whiner and proud of it.
As for the arguments by others in favor of carbombing, I don't have much to say. If you think that airplanes taxiing around and dropping bombs and shooting have a place in a WWII flight sim then we are obviously looking for something completely different in this product. You can rationalize it all you want, but I'm not just interested in a product which is increasingly dominated by such "tactics". And as long as I'm paying I'll keep making my opinion known to HTC. Enjoy.
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And lest any panties become bunched:
:) :) :) :) :)
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Funked thanks for that last post this is exactly how I feel about AH these days, and 95% of my supposed BBS "WHINING" is directed against such roadkill.
BTW: For the few blunt ones on the BBS my first reply in this thread was an example of sarcasm....
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Funked,
With respect to "car-bombing", I think it's a bit hokey. "Gaming the game" so to speak.
However, the whole "field capture" mechanism is a bit far-fetched isn't it? So, car-bombing.. whatever.
Various games have used various "field capture" devices; I thought almost all of them were "gamey", like landing a plane on the runway to capture the field. 8 paras? 10 paras in the map room? Whatever.
Basically, with no "car-bombing" field capture gets easier if less "dweebier" then? I'm not sure I want it any easier. Harder means more team play type coordination required, right? I read lots of call for that on this bbs, seems like.
Anyway I view your posts as the first definition of "feedback", the "good" kind, not the second definition. It's easy to distinguish your posts from the normal background noise ones.
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My humble solution:
Disable bombs on ground.
Remove all ack on fields.
Add 40+ .303 AI acks on fields
Add 5 37mm MANNED acks on fields
Add 4 MANNED antitank guns on fields.
= no more single ping ack unless its MANNED by a player, running to ack will NOT be as effective as it is now (single ping kill=addictive form of defense.. ACM no longer practiced :( ), a single plane would not be able to strafe the ack (.303's en masse are really deadly for a low flying jabo).
While im dreaming, please add a feature to disable the smoke animation and turn it into a solid black cloud. FPS drops below 5fps on that enviroment :(
NEXT!
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. If you think that airplanes taxiing around and dropping bombs and shooting have a place in a WWII flight sim then we are obviously looking for something completely different in this product.
And what part about an m3 rolling up to a base while everyone watches defenselesly in order to unload 10 troops that magically capture the base has more of a place in a WWII flight sim?
Its pick and chose with you. Ignore one totally gamey aspect to criticize another one.
I am not for making bases easier to capture. If you have such a huge problem with shooting two simple structures, then I truly feel sorry for you. But, as it is, two people can capture a base quite easily.
You are not adding anything to the game by removing this action, you are simply choosing to ignore what is already there. HTC has given you the power to fix it.. yet you would rather come here and complain. Next time, bomb the ammo bunkers.
Or.. next time.. come up with something new. This "repeat it until HTC does something" mentallity is beginning to wear very thin.
AKDejaVu
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Toad, thanks for the clarification, I see what you mean. I guess it comes down to degrees of hokiness.
There are some alternatives to the troop-drop field capture, which are being tried in a couple of new games. If they actually work, maybe HTC can look at them in the future.
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Its pick and chose with you. Ignore one totally gamey aspect to criticize another one.
AK there are too many totally gamey aspects for me to possibly comment on all of them. The options are "pick and choose" or "make no comment". Since the forum is here, I choose to pick and choose.
As far as repeating myself, if three posts in three months is too much for you, you're reading the boards too much! :eek:
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Im going to look at this with a logicle "realistic" view.
First of all, who in there right mind would commit suicide by arming there bombs and dropping them on the runway in real life? Not to mention what would happen after all the bombers are blown up.
Seconds of all, the guns on a bomber don't kill it when fired, so I am sure that they prolly would use them in real war situation if they had to.
Haveing said that; I think that the MG's should be enabled on the ground and the bombs disabled. Haveing the MG enabled will get rid of those who say carbombing is only way of defense because it will oviously not be then. It will also require the buff to shoot the planes instead of a lucky bomb hit, also allowing the buff to shoot troops if the oppertunity is there. On the flip side, It will make a vulcher (like myself if oppertunity knocks) be more cautious and use more ammo to vulch a buff. Right now the way it is, I often get kills without even firing a shot. All I ahve to do is show a small attack figure and they blow themselves up giving me a proximity kill.
Anyway, thats my $0.02 worth.
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carbombing is not "gaming the game".
It was a realistic, documented tactic used in the CBI by the Japanese against ground attack A/C, albiet in the form of remote controlled charges in the known flight path of the attacking A/C.
Gaming the game is expecting to attack, flatten and then capture a base *with the expectation of being able to use the captured facilities inside 30 minutes*.
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, albiet in the form of remote controlled charges in the known flight path of the attacking A/C.
THIS JUSTIFICATION OF YOURS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AH CAR BOMBING THEN!
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First of all, who in there right mind would commit suicide by arming there bombs and dropping them on the runway in real life? Not to mention what would happen after all the bombers are blown up.
And who in their right mind would expect to be able to land a goon at an enemy field and march 10 people into a building just because they had 2 fighters flying around overhead.
Really.. the whole aspect is gamey. Don't focus on just one as if that's the only dweeby thing involved. Its just as dweeby to expect people to just let you drive up to their front door without having them do whatever is in their means to stop you.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Booky:
Im going to look at this with a logicle "realistic" view.
And therein lies the real problem, perhaps.
Who in their right mind would drive an M3 across 50 miles of terrain theoretically held by enemy forces into a guarded enemy airfield complex in broad daylight?
Who in their right mind would fly an unescorted C-47 across 50 miles of enemy airspace with only 10 lightly armed paratroopers in the back and then either drop them over a guarded enemy airfield complex or, in a show of incredible brass, land them on the runway and taxi to the tower area?
Even with paratroopers, where would you find 10 crazy enough to commit certain pointless suicide? ;)
This issue has nothing to do with realism. This issue simply deals with gameplay.
Those of you who cite realism are using a "selective realism argument".
If this is confusing, look at Deja's 2nd post in this thread. He has said it far better than I can.
To repeat, it's a gameplay issue. As such any solution will ALWAYS be "gamey" to someone.
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Because this stew is not quite ready let me stir the pot a bit...
I saw Pyro in the MA a couple days ago and asked him about this very topic, he said they wanted to disable bombs when A/C on ground last version, but didn't get to it, and it was planned for the future.
Personally, I agree carbombing is dweebish, and although we are all dweebs, the fact remains that buffs did not arm bombs til well into the flight.
As for base capture, although there appears no easy solution, if I was setting it up, I'd up the required number of troops needed to take a field, as it seems to me 10 Stormtroopers might be good for sabotaging a bridge or possibly a factory, but 10 truppen would hardly be enough to defend against and defeat an airfield's security force. Consider if you will that although you've flattened a field from the air, that many security force personel would be burrowed in trenches and would come swarming out if 10 enemy troops appeared, HELL! if for no other reason than to get payback for the pounding they just recived from the air.
It should be seriously considered requiring a field to be taken by GV's only, and using the goons for capturing refineries, factories and train stations when they appear in future versions.
I realize of course this is impossible until we have roads to move GV's from base to base quickly.
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Originally posted by Toad:
<SNIP> Who in their right mind would fly an unescorted C-47 across 50 miles of enemy airspace with only 10 lightly armed paratroopers in the back and then either drop them over a guarded enemy airfield complex <SNIP>
The Brits would, please read A Brigde Too Far by Cornelius Ryan
Originally posted by Toad:
<SNIP> Even with paratroopers, where would you find 10 crazy enough to commit certain pointless suicide? ;) <SNIP>
101st Airborne seems like a good place to start :)
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Oh great.
Most of my kills are from pinging car bombers once and pulling away so I get the kill when they go to allah.
If they disable bombs on the ground I will have to earn those kills....
I think it would be neat if the bombs just sat there and blew up at random times.
So a lanc drops 14 1000lb time bombs The first one kills him and the rest roll around the field blowing up the first thing they hit. Maybe they even roll down the hills and blow up in the vallys...
They could bounce with that
"bink...bink..bink" sound that a grenade makes in the movies while everyone looks arround and tries to decide to dive for the ground or not.
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I think Market Garden involved more than one C-47 and 10 paratroopers, IIRC. But it's been a while since I read the book. ;)
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Originally posted by milnko:
As for base capture, although there appears no easy solution, if I was setting it up, I'd up the required number of troops needed to take a field, as it seems to me 10 Stormtroopers might be good for sabotaging a bridge or possibly a factory, but 10 truppen would hardly be enough to defend against and defeat an airfield's security force.
Think you're on to something... Maybe it should be scaled. 10 Troops to take a vehicle base. 20 to take a small field or port. 30 to take a medium field, and 40 to take a large base.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Think you're on to something... Maybe it should be scaled. 10 Troops to take a vehicle base. 20 to take a small field or port. 30 to take a medium field, and 40 to take a large base.
Uh oh... you're posting ideas that make sense! that's not allowed around here! ;)
As for carbombing... Gimme a MG nest spawn option, and you can disable bombs on the ground. To disable, you'd have to take out the barracks. You wouldn't be able to launch goons/m3/lvt2 from the base, but you would be able to use ordinance from the newly captured base.
If you're not willing to flatten the base, just so you can turn around and immediately use it, you need to run some risk in trying to capture it. just my opinion, tho. Risk = Reward should go both ways.
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The problem is not "car bombing". The problem is guys who would rather get EZ kills than protect the poor sap who is in the M3, LTV, or C47. My Lancaster was vulched about 15 times by Chog's (1 Chog can take out 2 ammo bunkers in one pass with its guns!) They wanted to see kill 12, 13, 14 next to their name and that is all they were concerned about. They let their M3 driver get wacked so they could improve their personal stats.
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Originally posted by Toad:
I think Market Garden involved more than one C-47 and 10 paratroopers, IIRC. But it's been a while since I read the book. ;)
well at 1st they were 10 but 9 got killed before entering the MAP room ... so the capture failed :D