Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: uberslet on July 22, 2008, 02:01:57 PM
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I was watching an episode of Dogfights one night, and a P51 Mustang took a 30MM shot from a Me 262 to the wing and didnt lose his wing, I personally, find it hard to think some reality of the actual damage we, as the players, take when bullets hit our planes. I know, it may have been some freak thing that he didnt lose his wing, and we wont always get the same damage for being hit in the same spot, I havnt dopne any research, and i will do some now to see weather or not it was by freak chance or if it was normal for a pilot to not lose his wing if a Me 262 round hit it.
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iv shot up 51's with a 30mm from a 109..and only put holes in the wing. Cant tell ya about a 262..i either hit a tree or ram the other plane :(
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I was watching an episode of Dogfights one night, and a P51 Mustang took a 30MM shot from a Me 262 to the wing and didnt lose his wing, I personally, find it hard to think some reality of the actual damage we, as the players, take when bullets hit our planes. I know, it may have been some freak thing that he didnt lose his wing, and we wont always get the same damage for being hit in the same spot, I havnt dopne any research, and i will do some now to see weather or not it was by freak chance or if it was normal for a pilot to not lose his wing if a Me 262 round hit it.
I think it would be very rare for a P-51D to survive a direct hit on the wing or any other part of plane from a 30mm cannon in real life. That P-51D driver in real life was extremely lucky, like Johnson was in his P-47 that was all shot up and yet managed to bring his Jug home.
ack-ack
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like Johnson was in his P-47 that was all shot up and yet managed to bring his Jug home.
he didnt have 20mm shot at him, he just had pea shooters
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he didnt have 20mm shot at him, he just had pea shooters
20 or so 20mm hits were counted in his aircraft, IIRC.
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I think it would be very rare for a P-51D to survive a direct hit on the wing or any other part of plane from a 30mm cannon in real life. That P-51D driver in real life was extremely lucky, like Johnson was in his P-47 that was all shot up and yet managed to bring his Jug home.
ack-ack
Refresh my memory, I could be thinking of something/someone else. Is that where he was about to strafe a train, and he watched the canvas fly off of one of the flat cars, exposing a 20mm ack, and one of his engine cylinders even got hit with a 20?
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Refresh my memory, I could be thinking of something/someone else. Is that where he was about to strafe a train, and he watched the canvas fly off of one of the flat cars, exposing a 20mm ack, and one of his engine cylinders even got hit with a 20?
I believe Johnson was the pilot who got jumped by 190's, got hit by some 20mm's that wounded him and jammed his canopy and other bad things, so he couldn't bail and on his way RTB another 190 on a taxi flight (or something, I don't remember the details, for whatever reason it wasn't loaded with MG151's, just MG17's), the 190 unloaded all of it's ammunition into the Jug and Johnson still made it back.
May have been someone else though. This one pops to mind because it's the one everybody quotes as evidence that the Jug should be indestructible.
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I actually think the damage needs to be more realistic. When bullets enter a plane and leave holes it messes up the airflwo over the wings or other aprts of the plane. It causes more friction and makes the plane harder to fly. Any type of hole that isnt supposed to be there, shouldnt be there, it will screw with your airplane. Im sure this would take a lot of coding and such, as for me i have no clue about programming so i have no idea how they would do this.
just my .02 :aok
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Im sure this would take a lot of coding and such, as for me i have no clue about programming so i have no idea how they would do this.
Well, when one thinks about how many virtual bullets hit virtual plane parts in a single virtual day....one begins to see what a daunting task this could be. I would guess that HT would say that the return on his time expenditure would not be worth it. You never know though. :)
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Increasing the drag, and perhaps decreasing the lift if it's a wing, of a part based on how much damage it has taken doesn't sound too complicated. The information is already recorded for the current damage system.
I like the idea.
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I was watching an episode of Dogfights one night, and a P51 Mustang took a 30MM shot from a Me 262 to the wing and didnt lose his wing, I personally, find it hard to think some reality of the actual damage we, as the players, take when bullets hit our planes. I know, it may have been some freak thing that he didnt lose his wing, and we wont always get the same damage for being hit in the same spot, I havnt dopne any research, and i will do some now to see weather or not it was by freak chance or if it was normal for a pilot to not lose his wing if a Me 262 round hit it.
Perhaps it was a dud and didn't explode while inside the wing? Maybe it just went through the wing and just left a hole? That could have been it.
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That could be very true titanic, duds were pretty common. An example: Band of brothers, when they are in the forest and the 2 guys are in the fox hole and the 88mm round lands in their hole but doesnt go off.
godo suggestion. :aok
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I've seen a picture of a P51 with a huge hole from a 30mm shell, passed right through the fuselage behind the cockpit but didn't explode. It still made a big hole though.
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I was watching an episode of Dogfights one night, and a P51 Mustang took a 30MM shot from a Me 262 to the wing and didnt lose his wing, I personally, find it hard to think some reality of the actual damage we, as the players, take when bullets hit our planes. I know, it may have been some freak thing that he didnt lose his wing, and we wont always get the same damage for being hit in the same spot, I havnt dopne any research, and i will do some now to see weather or not it was by freak chance or if it was normal for a pilot to not lose his wing if a Me 262 round hit it.
Actually this is funny, because I was flying a 262 last night, and I took one pony's wing off with 1 30mm cannon, and then I ran into another pony, put 1 30mm into his wing, and it didn't come off. Right around the same area aswell, same wing, left.
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I was watching an episode of Dogfights one night, and a P51 Mustang took a 30MM shot from a Me 262 to the wing and didnt lose his wing, I personally, find it hard to think some reality of the actual damage we, as the players, take when bullets hit our planes. I know, it may have been some freak thing that he didnt lose his wing, and we wont always get the same damage for being hit in the same spot, I havnt dopne any research, and i will do some now to see weather or not it was by freak chance or if it was normal for a pilot to not lose his wing if a Me 262 round hit it.
The result would depend on a lot of things. Incident angle of impact, location of impact, penetration of the round before detonation, etc. The pony has a very strong rear spar to carry aileron and flap loads. It's conceivable that there might be sufficient remaining wing structure after a 30mm hit (and detonation), but the hit would almost certainly have to be outboard of the main fuel tank. And the pilot would really need to baby the plane afterwards to get it home. Hard to say without info on where/how the round hit.
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he didnt have 20mm shot at him, he just had pea shooters
Wrong ...
After the injured Johnson had landed his plane at the Manston emergency strip, he surveyed the damage it had taken, and later described the result in his autobiography, Thunderbolt!:
There are twenty-one gaping holes and jagged tears in the metal from exploding 20mm cannon shells. I'm still standing in one place when my count of bullet holes reaches past a hundred; there's no use even trying to add them all. The Thunderbolt is literally a sieve, holes through the wings, fuselage and tail. Every square foot, it seems is covered with holes. There are five holes in the propeller. Three 20mm cannon shells burst against the armor plate, a scant inch away from my head. Five cannon shell holes in the right wing; four in the left wing. Two cannnon shells blasted away the lower half of my rudder. One shell exploded in the cockpit, next to my left hand; this is the blast that ripped away the flap handle. More holes appeared along the fuselage and in the tail. Behind the cockpit, the metal is twisted and curled; this had jammed the canopy, trapping me inside.
The airplane had done her best. Needless to say, she would never fly again.
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Refresh my memory, I could be thinking of something/someone else. Is that where he was about to strafe a train, and he watched the canvas fly off of one of the flat cars, exposing a 20mm ack, and one of his engine cylinders even got hit with a 20?
Go here Murdr ... http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_rsj.html
June 26, 1943 mission details:
Early in the morning forty-eight Thunderbolts took off from the advanced base at Manston. Having previously been criticized for going off on his own, this morning Johnson resolved to stay in formation. The three squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group were all up: the 61st (Johnson's), 62nd, and 63rd. Before the mission, Johnson felt the cold fear that he always felt, and which he was able to channel into higher alertness. They flew up, over the Channel, into France, and soon spotted sixteen Fw-190s. Before Johnson could communicate or coordinate with his flight, he was hit. 20mm cannon shells ripped through his plane, smashing the canopy, punching holes in the plane, and inspiring in Johnson an overwhelming urge to bail out. More explosions smashed the plane, and Johnson's frantic "Mayday!" calls drew no response. Fire began to envelope the cockpit.
The Thunderbolt spun crazily out of his control and the twisted and jammed canopy frame resisted his repeated, superhuman, full-body efforts to open it. As he struggled vainly with the canopy, the engine fire miraculously went out, but he could hardly see, as oil spewed back from the battered engine. He tried to squeeze out through the broken glass of the canopy, but the opening was just too small for both him and his chute. Trapped inside the P-47, he next decided to try to crash-land and evade. He turned the plane south, toward Spain - the recommended evasion route. After struggling with hypoxia and hallucinations(?), his thoughts came back into focus and he realized that the aircraft was still flying fairly well. He headed back for England, counting on his high altitude to help him make a long, partially-powered glide back home.
The instrument panel was shattered. The wind constantly blew more oil and hydraulic fluid into his cut up face and eyes. He had neglected to wear his goggles that morning, and any attempt to rub his eyes burned worse than ever. He and his plane were horribly shot up, but incredibly he was still alive. He made for the Channel, desperate to escape the heavily defended enemy territory.
Swiveling constantly, he froze in horror as he spotted a plane approaching him, an Fw-190, beautifully painted in blue with a yellow cowling. Johnson was totally helpless, and just had to wait for the German to get him in his sights and open up. The German closed in, taking his time with the crippled American fighter. Johnson hunched down behind his armor-plated seat, to await the inevitable. The German opened up, spraying the plane with 30-caliber machine gun fire, not missing, just pouring lead into the battered Thunderbolt. Johnson kicked his rudder left and right, slowing his plane to a crawl, and fired back as the German sped out in front of him.
The Focke-Wulf easily avoided the gunfire from the half-blinded Johnson, and circled back, this time pulling level with him. The pilot examined the shattered Thunderbolt all over, looking it up and down, and shook his head in mystification. He banked, pulled up behind Johnson again, and opened up with another burst. Somehow the rugged Republic-built aircraft stayed in the air. The German pulled alongside again, as they approached the southern coast of the Channel. Still flying, Johnson realized how fortunate it was that the German found him after his heavy 20mm cannons were empty.
As they went out over the Channel, the German get behind and opened up again, but the P-47 kept flying. Then he pulled up alongside, rocked his wings in salute, and flew off, before they reached the English coast. Johnson had survived the incredible, point-blank machine gun fire, but still had to land the plane. He contacted Mayday Control by radio, who instructed him to climb if he can. The battered plane climbed, and after more communication, headed for his base at Manston. Landing was touch and go, as he had no idea if the landing gear would work. The wheels dropped down and locked and he landed safely.