Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rich46yo on July 23, 2008, 10:18:28 AM
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At the height of his unpopularity I would tell amazed people, "wouldnt it be funny if George jr. is one day remembered by history as one of our great Presidents"? I say "amazed" because these people would look at me funny as if I were off my rocker. But in truth these same people not only have an ignorance of history but cant look past a newspaper headline to see the real reality of what were doing in that theatre of operations.
To get a clear picture of the strategy behind Georges plan pull up a map of the region and observe the countries where America, and our allies, either have troops, bases, bases they could possibly use, or friendly alliances. The former states of the Southern Soviet union, Pakistan, the Gulf States, Turkey, Israel, Iraq, Guam, East Africa....Is it starting to make sense now? We have basically refined the time proven policy of encirclement and containment we used against the commies and applied it to the hostile terrorist supporting countries and regions of S/E Asia and the ME.
Even more so we have a stranglehold of much of the regions water and we control both ends of the Persian Gulf.
There are problems to be sure. We face an enemy more ruthless then we are and whom are in their own backyard. The Pakistani Govt. doesnt want to take decisive action in its tribal lands so we are stuck in a stalemate in Afghanistan. And may continue to be. On the other hand "they" face an enemy whose military power is probably beyond their comprehension.
Certainly there have been problems in Iraq. When we invaded it our Govt. did pump up the entire WMD thing to get public support. But in their defense even in the beginning they also said the main reason for attack Saddam was his continued violations of the peace agreement and UN sanctions. Of which he did dozens of times, even conspiring to assassinate a former US President on a trip to Kuwait. He obstructed and lied to UN inspectors to many times to count eventually forcing them out with his noncompliance.
But Im getting off track. I said one day Bush might be remembered as a genius. And do remember many wartime Presidents were unpopular at the time, tho they are remembered by history as great Presidents. Lincoln and George Washington come to mind right off.
And should a successful Democracy spring up in Iraq, and should this Democratic wave spread outward in the region, giving millions human rights, legal rights, and the right to choose leadership. Should all this happen then in the time of our children, or children's children, George Bush jr will be remembered as a great President. And in a few months he will leave office knowing another terror attack in his country didn't happen after 9/11 due to his leadership.
Its starnge how people believe what they want to believe even tho the truth is right in front of their noses. Most people badmouth Bush without even knowing why they are doing it, "other then the fact everyone else in their crowd is doing it".
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Funny you should say Lincoln and Washington when referring to Bush. Both aren't thought of as great presidents. We are actually having a discussion in the "MT and Friends..." thread about how bad Lincoln was.
I personally see George Bush as I do McCain. "Any port in a storm" type presidents. Sure, they are bound to do some things good, they more often do things that aren't well performed.
I don't see Iraq nor Afghanistan as bad things. But then again, I do believe that Americans are unwilling to do what is necessary to win.
Past the SC justices and Wars, I believe Bush's legacy will come down to his failure to act on illegal immigration, and his promotion of Big Government. That is all assuming that soon the Conservative party will form, and show what it should be.
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And I'm gonna win the lottery today.
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I was reading 2 days ago on BBC news about the primitive stoning to death executions http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7516238.stm in Iran but they happen in Saudi Arabia and other places Middle East.
I agree with you ,with all the low approval ,bad economic situation in US, war in Iraq only history will tell if Bush was right or wrong,trying to change the Middle East .
Look at this link http://iran-human-rights.blogspot.com/2008/02/two-sisters-to-be-stoned-to-death-for.html , how this islamic regimes are punishing their daughters and wives for suspicions of adultery,: the iranian regime, approving this monstrous executions , wants atomic bomb!
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Ignoring agreeing or not with policy...Bush's big problem is terrible implementation of policy. What has the administration done right the first time?
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How often does anything implemented by the government get done correctly the first time? :rolleyes:
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I don't think Jr would ever be looked at as a great president by most of the US or world, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he's not put up on a pedestal by the Republican party in say 10 to 15 years. I mean the guy that brought us Reaganomics, Trickle down economics along with the stock market crash of 87 and the saving and loan scandals.. is now thought of as the second coming of Jesus by the average current day Republican..
One thing is for sure.. the current breed of Republicans have very short memories and they suck at economics..
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How often does anything implemented by the government get done correctly the first time? :rolleyes:
This is an excuse for epic fails? There is a difference between paying a percent extra on a poorly researched loan and killing thousands on obviously poorly thought out war plan. If its an arbitrary fight it might be a good idea to spend a couple extra minutes thinking it through.
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I don't think Jr would ever be looked at as a great president by most of the US or world, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he's not put up on a pedestal by the Republican party in say 10 to 15 years. I mean the guy that brought us Reaganomics, Trickle down economics along with the stock market crash of 87 and the saving and loan scandals.. is now thought of as the second coming of Jesus by the average current day Republican..
One thing is for sure.. the current breed of Republicans have very short memories and they suck at economics..
The one area where you never disappoint. Do you ever see the irony?
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iraq is seen for what it is... an empire in decline desperate to shore up the petrodollar underpinning of its dollar socialism... in essence an imperial tax base.
if you take a look at the history of the middle-east and not the redundant faux news walt disney propaganda.... it has all been about keeping the average arab and persian as field negros... it is then much easier to suck the inherit wealth from their country via a dictatorships to subsidize the empire loyalist at home.
but then again that's pretty much how the majority of the empire loyalists view everyone else not draped in their hypocrisy... but now the rest of the world has grown rather weary of subsidizing an empire that only exports inflation and war.
bush is the quintessential empire slayer... and the founding father of the euro.
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Some people are subjugated to rationalizing everything they need to believe in. Take enough things out of context and you can make a case for anything you want. Or take enough things from the media and you can make a case for anything you want as well.
The beauty of politics is, the facts presented to us are usually based on lies and/or fabrications needed to make the politician look good or appear to be correct. Of course, there are some politicians who think they do not even need to bother with that and just insult the intelligence of every man, woman, and child on the planet due to a total lack of respect for the people that think they voted him into office.
Difficult to know the truth when there is virtually none available to us. Of course, this goes back to rationalizing and thus the loop continues.
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Blah blah blather blather...
bush is the quintessential empire slayer... and the founding father of the euro.
It was the economic crisis of the 1970s that led to the first plans for a single currency. The system of fixed exchange rates pegged to the US dollar was abandoned. European leaders agreed to create a "currency snake", tying together European currencies. The euro was launched on 1 January 1999 as an electronic currency and became legal tender on 1 January 2002.
Wow... a founding father that had nothing to do with it's birth.
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Can we get a interpreter please. I have no idea what this guy is saying.
iraq is seen for what it is... an empire in decline desperate to shore up the petrodollar underpinning of its dollar socialism... in essence an imperial tax base.
if you take a look at the history of the middle-east and not the redundant faux news walt disney propaganda.... it has all been about keeping the average arab and persian as field negros... it is then much easier to suck the inherit wealth from their country via a dictatorships to subsidize the empire loyalist at home.
but then again that's pretty much how the majority of the empire loyalists view everyone else not draped in their hypocrisy... but now the rest of the world has grown rather weary of subsidizing an empire that only exports inflation and war.
bush is the quintessential empire slayer... and the founding father of the euro.
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Can we get a interpreter please. I have no idea what this guy is saying.
I sort of understood it. Basically that:
a) Iraq was/is a failed state propped up by western powers to solidify their grasp for power in the region.
b) the people of oil rich middle eastern nations are held down by American oil intersts as pissants merely to be taken advantage of.
c) the rest of the world hates the United States because we eat up world resources at the expense of the rest of the world.
d) Bush is the point of the sword for the worlds elite wealthy intent on hoarding all the good things in life for a select few as everyone else writhes away in a depressed agony. The euro thing I think is a swipe at the faltering America being replaced by a super european mega economy due in large part to false American benevolence.
Its really a rather unimpresive and beffudled way to express his feelings (I think) on the global condition but hey, we are just having fun here afterall :P
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Look what I can do dad.
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I sort of understood it. Basically that:
a) Iraq was/is a failed state propped up by western powers to solidify their grasp for power in the region.
Yeah I heard that one. It was very popular for the flag burning bunch to say the phrase, "America made Saddam". Actually much of the world babbled it. However nobody could say exactly "how" we made him. Actual history is that Saddams vehicle to power was the anti-western BAATH movement that ran thru the Arab world in the '50s and '60s, "remember Nasser and his Pan-Arab nation dreams"? And Saddams own ruthlessness served him well too. America has no colonial history in the region. Or in Africa for that matter. Thats all Europe there baby.
b) the people of oil rich middle eastern nations are held down by American oil intersts as pissants merely to be taken advantage of.
Hahahaha thats a good one. Go walk down a street in Saudi Arabia with a crucifix showing and when the religious Police are beating you for it you can then blame America.
c) the rest of the world hates the United States because we eat up world resources at the expense of the rest of the world.
But I guess they love the rest of the world for poisoning it with their filth. Russia, China, the 3rd world, are polluting the world without restriction.
d) Bush is the point of the sword for the worlds elite wealthy intent on hoarding all the good things in life for a select few as everyone else writhes away in a depressed agony. The euro thing I think is a swipe at the faltering America being replaced by a super european mega economy due in large part to false American benevolence.
Boy I dont know how to reply to that manifesto. Its sounds more like the Soviet elite .000001% with the dachas, western product stores, mistresses, fancy cars, private restaurants..ect Hows that for a socialist workers paradise? Course the other 99.999991% was wearing cardboard shoes and standing all day in bread lines.
I thought Europe tried their mega-power thing and it didn't work. Its tough being slaves to American consumers.
Its really a rather unimpresive and beffudled way to express his feelings (I think) on the global condition but hey, we are just having fun here afterall :P
Its even more fun when they speak English. I appreciate the attempt at interpretation.