Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MANDOBLE on April 05, 2001, 04:01:00 AM
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IMO, this free period is somewhat harming the game. And, while being a good marketing move, it opens the door to a wide range of "predators".
IMO, there are three ways to solve the problem:
1 - No more free trial weeks.
2 - Ilimited free time, but only as espectators. The player is limited to join flights.
3 - 2 free weeks, but the player's weapons do not harm at all. They can fire and hit, but no damage packets are processed from their planes and their plane icons are marked with an asterisk. Due they are unarmed, killing them is rewarded only with an assist. At least, they'll be useful recon pilots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
IMO, points 2 and 3 give the player more than enough data to decide if he is interested in the game to subscribe (payment) or not.
In any case, dont give those players full control of the game features at ALL cost.
Uh! And I know there are "predators" paying for the game, but I want to believe they are an insignificant minority.
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Has bailado las letras...es petardos, no predators (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(Srry for spanish, dunno how to translate)
On the thread....whatever 2 or 3, I strongly support #1.
Cheers,
Pepe.
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Man, don`t ever think about starting a business..... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Pepe, I'm not referring to "petardos", you know very well I'm refering to real "predators" (foro del 101). I would be very happy if they were ony "petardos".
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yea...I for one know many people who would pay the highest price on the fight sim market today for something they havent even been able to try yet...NOT
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Originally posted by Pepe:
(Srry for spanish, dunno how to translate)
No need to translate event a losy spanish speaker like me can got it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
It's right they blow nicely in my gunsight (may my Hispano never fail and always be in the way ...)
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TheWobble, I suggest you to read the entire message content, not only the topic. Alternatives 2 and 3 give the player enough feeling to determine if it is good enough to pay for it.
Straffo, in spanish there is a "said":
"A buen entendedor, pocas palabras bastan". The translation is something like:
"Few words are enough for those who can understand".
With the term "predators" I'm not talking about pilots with no experience, in fact, I'm not talking about what we can consider pilots.
[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 04-05-2001).]
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I think identifying newbies with an asterisk would be an incredible mistake... Imagine the constant slaughtering of newbies simply because seasoned C-hog dweebs would wiggle in their seats laughing hysterically, assist or not.
Lets take a look at why Hitech probably never went this direction when he created the trial period with full kill privis:
Combat Flight Sim Junkies and Newbies alike want to see the plane go down in flames, thats the addicting part. There is certainly nothing addicting nor exciting about seeing "hit sprites" whilst the plane flys away unarmed while you're out there, now ammoless with 86 C-Hog dweebs chasing your asterisk-marked butt all over the sky! WOW WHAT A GREAT DEMO! I think not.
And what about the people who download, hop in, start their trial and didn't read the manual... "How come I can't shoot someone down?!?!?!" How many newbies would you like to explain it to repeatedly? "You're a trial dweeb, your shots don't hurt anyone, pay to play!"
It would all lead to many unanswered questions, and persecution.
you give a full demo, or none at all. And I don't think Hitech is going to remove it anytime soon, it helps him make money.
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Caligula the one an only,
This is not a starting business. This is an ONGOING one, with more than a year spawn....and this if we forget about AW, WB, CK and similar concepts. People coming here (at least a majority of them) know what they should expetc. Maybe not every single aspect, but definitely the fundamentals.
With regards to your advise, you better not start a business yourself, as well. There is lots of creativity involved in such a task, and your comment do not show a great deal of that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Wobble,
That is exactly what Mandoble proposes. Give them a "flavour" of what they can expect, but trying as well to relief the paying customers of the pain that sometimes the freebies are.
You know, let aside the hack issue (on this particular I honestly think Htc. KNOWS how to run their business. Period), what amount of noise these people make in the Arena, from time to time. I think that the whole point make sense. If you want to have a flavour of what this game is about, I think #3 is fair enough.
Maybe we should start asking if freebies are perceived like a problem, as they are today.
Cheers,
Pepe.
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Reading Antix's post, that would be a problem, yes. But, I'm just toying with the idea, that freebies could have a test AH program, where they are not able to really kill anyone, just have inflicted damage info on their screen, without actually damaging any con, and on the receiving side, act like drones in offline mode. Their flight model would be always perfect, but reflect damage graphically. And when ded, not return to tower, but spawn somewhere far (if you want to make it sophisticate, near where action might be). On kills awards, what Mandoble says, only assists. Basically you would have online drones. Not very challenging, but, as well that would refrain the average skilled Quakebirder from constantly kill the newbie.
Just my borrowed €.02
Pepe
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?? what's your gripe with folks that are o a 2 week trial ?? Seems as if some of fear them ..
I think it's good if you have a good influx of fresh folks around the clock and all the proposed options wouldn't work for the Obvious flaw of:
Would you like to just sit and look someone else kill another plane while you can't ?
A Multiplayer on-line game can best be demonstarted by actually playing it.
And as for people abusing the 2 week trial system, that's HTCs decision and i guess they've long figured the pros outwights the cons by far.
DW6
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Hola amigos (hola Man cibergay).
Vereis, muy a menudo entro en la Arena gratuita H2H, y simpre hay multitud de jugadores, no es esto suficiente para los que quieran saber aproximadamente como es el juego en la MA?
creo que si, que con esta opcion aumentandola a quizas 12 o 16 jugadores en H2H les podria dar una idea bastante buena del juego On-line.
Nadie se sentiria ofendido por ser solo espectador o estar marcado como "novato en pruebas" durante 2 semanas.
Y se evitaria los posible hacker's que, suponemos, utilizan las 2 semanas de prueba en la MA para hacer daño al resto de jugadores.
Si el que hackea el juego es alguien que paga su cuota solo se le pueden decir 2 cosas IMBECIL y MAL DEPORTISTA.
He dicho XD
Saludos
Supongo
P.D.: que una arena de 200 jugadores no tiene nada que ver con una de 16 es muy cierto, pero ojo, en la MA se suele combatir en furballs no mayores de 10 aviones, si, existen de mas, pero no es tan habitual.
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Translation (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/009091.html)
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Limit them to fly the Zekke or the C202 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I personaly have no problems with "2 weekers". new friends & new targets always welcome here...
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Saw
[MASS]
(http://saintaw.cyberspace.be/saw_cour.gif) (http://saintaw.cyberspace.be/ff/)
"I am distracted when I talk to my privates".
Wobble
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 04-05-2001).]
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Garrido post translation:
Basically, Garrido thinks that H2H alone, with 8-16 players limit, is more than enought for new players to have a clear picture of how is this sim.
In the other hand, he thinks that being an espectator or being marked (icon) as "trial pilot" for 2 weeks doesn't offend anybody. And that with any of these systems, offensive, gaming the game or hacker people using the 2 free weeks would be eradicated.
My answer to Garrido: H2H with 8-16 players is insufficient to show what MA or SEA are.
Lo que te dije antes, me parece insuficiente el H2H, o nada, o que entren a las arenas pero con "poderes" limitados.
Answer to Saintaw:
Agree, I have no problems at all with "legal" 2-weekers.
Giving them a C202 or a Zeke, you could be surprised of what some "versions" of these planes can do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 04-05-2001).]
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Hello all:
You see, I step into the H2H Arena very often, and there is alway plenty of players. Isn't this enough for the ones who want to know aproximately what is this game in the MA?
I think that this option, perhaps incresing numbers to 12 or 16 players in H2H, would give them a quite fair idea of On-line gaming.
Nobody would take offense of being a mere spectator or being labeled as "training newbie" for 2 weeks.
And hackers using, we suppose, the 2 week free period in the MA to harm the rest of players, would be over. If the hacker is a paying customer, It can only be called 2 things: IMBECILE and BAD SPORT.
I've spoken XD
Cheers
supongo
P.D.: GRACIAS PEPE
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Ooops, double, triple posting galore (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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ejemmm. perdon XD
voy muy descoordinado desde unos pocos años aqui.
saludos por triplicado
supongo
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Djust restrict the access to ch100 during the first 2 weeks
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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You can't show off this game in an 8 player arena! You have got to be kidding me. Any game can duplicate that feat. Why the main is so cool, and the thing that really shows off AH is the dynamic and varied nature of an arena with 150 Plus folks in it.
We need MORE ways to help get new people into the game and grow the community, not LESS. Why do you want to exclude anyone? What is the problem? I don't understand why you would want to stop the 2 week trials. Heck, my score would suffer if we did. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Seriously.... please explain why you think this needs to be done. I don't understand the motivation behind it.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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Lephturn, I think it is clear enough. I'm not talking about negating help to the new players. They have TA, H/H and even offline to train as much as they want and to familiarize with the AH concepts.
I'm talking only about disabling some features for these players during the evaluation period, for example, not being able to cause real damage to any plane. This will be more than enough to give them a perfect and clear idea of what is this sim and they will have more than enough data to subscribe or not.
I hope most of the "new" players are "legal" ones that only want to evaluate seriously this product. But, in the other hand, there are players attracted by the 0$ 2 weeks that come here only to harm the comunity and the software itself. Most of these are not new ones, they renew over&over their accounts with different nicks and give us nothing but worries.
As you surely know, most of the games, online and offline have demos available. You can play an scenary, for example, over'n over, and no more. And this is enough to demostrate the game. But none, or almost none gives as demo program the entire version with a time limit. If they do, a lot of people will find a way to crack this and enjoy the full version for free all the time. This is just an economical issue and I'm not worried about it. The problem is that this kind of people, usually, want to go further. You have a lot of examples in games line Quake, UT, etc.
AFAIK, this people have a common point, they dont want to pay a single $ to play anything. And if HTC can force them to pay if they want the full featured game, we'll get rid off them for sure.
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what is a "predetor" as it applies to this game?? I like having new guys around. I like em a lot more than some of the flabby vets i see in the arena. I don't see a problem here.
lazs
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Mandoble,
The underlying accusation that I _think_ I see in your posts is that the 2-week period allows hackers to
"come here only to harm the comunity and the software itself. Most of these are not new ones, they renew over&over their accounts with different nicks and give us nothing but worrie"
If you are talking about hackers, just come out and say it, please.
Don't dance around your point. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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What's wrong wih people having a free 2 week trial? Some years ago, when I was just started getting into flight sims, the only reason I tried online sims is that my AOL account provided me with free AW. Wasn't it for it, who knows if I would have ever made it to here.
Somehow I think this thread is related to an already beat up topic of people having pay less for AH...
mx22
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Lazs, the following is a list of basic predators (there are much more sofisticated ones):
1 - People that, while liking the game, will never pay for it. They'll be changing nicknames and accounts over'n over.
2 - People that live to game the games. As the use to do with their, probably, preferred online games: quake, UT, etc.
3 - People that do not respect the community at all. In fact, they are not customers and have no compromise with the game neither the comunity.
4 - People that lives with the only purpose of hack and crack software.
5 - People that lives to harm everything.
you can combine various predator types into a single one with as many combinations as you want. But, the common charasteristic is that none of them want to pay for anything.
Toad, no, I'm not talking only about software gurus.
[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 04-05-2001).]
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6 - People who might stick around if they ever got a chance to learn what we know. But instead they become frustrated with getting blown to bits before they even figure out how to shoot back, so they quit. (79%)
7 - People who stick it out and become regulars, in spite of us. (19%)
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MANDOBLE,
Businesses that focus too much attention on catching dishonest customers usually create a negative atmosphere for all customers, and typically do not do well (unless they are a bank or the like).
HTC needs to figure out how to get MORE customers to try out this game.
They also need to figure out how to get those customers to stay.
The customers' first experiences in AH must be enjoyable, or they will leave.
IMO, newbies/freebies do not ruin this game.
I love this sim, in spite of the fact that there are folks who just don't seem to see things the way that I see them, and the fact that the game isn't run exactly how I would have run it.
I, and many others, will not leave over a few relatively petty issues.
HTC can bank on this, and they know it.
The future of HTC is much more than the current clientele.
eskimo
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"flabby vets "
ROFL!
Saw
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Well, this is my last post on this thread or anyother related to hacks or price.
First, this thread is not about price. It's neither about hacks. It is about attitudes. What Mandoble tries to explain (correct me if I am wrong) is that general attitude among freebies is more in the disruptive side than in the constructive one, and proposes some measures that are perceived to get with this better. Anything away from this is speculation. If you want to exercise your deductive skills, go ahead, but for your own benefit, not because your findings are correct within this thread.
Second, on the freebies issue, my feelings are that this side of the game can be tweaked a bit, on both sides, the one on the newbie, and the one on the rest of us. Like eskimo points wisely, it is a FRUSTRATING experience being shot down over and over and over and over ad nauseam. That's why I think some kind of testing set would be useful.
Third, on the hack issue, It is not relevant for me, as I have no means to counter. This ball is entirely on Htc.'s court. They are the exclusive players of this game. My monthly payment shows that they are doing OK, by my standards. When I feel the opposite I will (sadly) stop paying.
Cheers,
Pepe.
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Yep, PEPE, you are correct and caught the idea at first try.
I HOPE the general and alarming misunderstanding demostrated here is only due my terrible lack in english language.
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I'm confused about why this is even an issue.
The free two week trial is an extremely good thing, although not perfect. The two people I got to try AH didn't get a free two week trial because they signed up from my house, where I have a fixed IP and had already flown a free two week trial. In the end neither of them stayed for more than two months, but that is the way it goes. It also goes to show you that customer referals aren't going to create the required growth in the customer base that HTC requires.
I also post info about AH whenever somebody enquires about flightsims, including mention of the 2 week trial, and a link on various boards.
Ask yourself this, how many of the 2 week trial accounts are by people abusing the system or here to hack AH? Very few I would guess.
Without the free 2 week trial AH will almost certainly be doomed. And I mean a full access trial, not some useless watered down version, even extending to perks if they earn them.
BTW, my roommate says he might come back if the Me410 is added.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Hmm well I checked the date so I figure its not an April fool so I have to question the logic behind this post.
Since Aces High appeared its taken players from other sims and first time flyers BECAUSE of the free two week trail, personally I think HTC might have been a bit generous giving two weeks but appreciate not everyone can get online long enough within a week to evaluate the sim. iEN is really missing the boat by not tempting players into their sim by offering a free trial.
By only allowing you to play if you give CC details first puts a hell of alot of people off trying the sim even if they are confident of paying for things across the net, but there are so many people who dare not use their credit cards online although it is alot safer these days. To make and restrictions on freetrials would be a suicide move by HTC IMO but I do believe that stronger steps should be taken to stop people repeatedly signing up for free accounts and abusing the system.
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Actually, I never gave iEN my credit card to try out WB's online because of all the iEN billing fubars. I did not trust THEM to handle my information with care.
I think the two week trial is great. It just let's in the cockroaches along with the good people.
Maybe the best route is also the easiest? Folks should learn the .squelch command and also it's about time HTC to finally let us have it be a permanent list till changed by ourselves.
-Westy
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I'm all for more players, and I don't see how making it harder for people trying it out is going to help that in any way. I'd not have subscribed had I not been able to mess around for free, no one I get to sign up does so without being able to play (yes play, not just ride around in an observer) first.
Not sure exactly what harm they are causing either, unless they're actually better than you.
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If you don't feel comfortable giving your CC info over the net you can always call direct and do it over the phone. Sure, it costs long distance, but it is an option.
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What's the use in a trial period, if they can't try out the game and its full features?
Further, I would like to see PAYING members be able to host LARGER games in H2H. The system already checks your name and password, how about having paying memebers be able to host their own 16 (or maybe 32?) player games?
Eight is just not enough, I mean with 4 on 4, and some of the large maps we have, you really can't have a cool, strategic fight. Oh sure, if you want a Free For All (FFA), it excels in that (as does the Training Room). Heck, I'd love to have my Squaddies take on another Squad on one of the maps I'm working on. But we can't. Only 8 players allowed. And not all the guys I'd like to invite are paying members of Aces High yet, due to other financial responsibilites.
I dunno, I have no problem with the trial time, and yes, we know people abuse that. That's a given with any free trial.
But what do you think of the H2H suggestions? They seem to fall on deaf ears whenever I mention them in a seperate thread. Comments?
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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Having just fled the skies of AW'S, I'll be flying AH "live" this weekend mainly due to the 2 week trial. I'm not looking for a "freebie" or to become a predator...I just want to check out the game, arenas and players.
I say keep the trial weeks and don't impose restrictions. AH will get more players and more players make for a better product and gaming experience...IMO
DMax
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!!?!?!?!?! ... Definitively it should be my english ...
I'm "flipando en colorines con las orejas atadas a la coronilla".
Sorry, I see no possible way to translate the previous sentece, so, no possible way to misunderstand it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 04-05-2001).]
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Lazs, the following is a list of basic predators (there are much more sofisticated ones):
1 - People that, while liking the game, will never pay for it. They'll be changing nicknames
and accounts over'n over.
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Well... I'm sure that those people are a minority and they really don't affect me in any case. seems like more trouble than it's worth to me.
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2 - People that live to game the games. As the use to do with their, probably, preferred
online games: quake, UT, etc.
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Well... seems to me that we have plenty of paying customers that do that. I don't think it is more of a free trial kinda thing.
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3 - People that do not respect the community at all. In fact, they are not customers and
have no compromise with the game neither the comunity.
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Hmm.. that's a little hard to get a grip on. Someone just got banned who was here from beta and had very little respect for the "community". Again... seems harsh to throw out all the prospective new "community" simply because maybe a few of the new guys are imature.
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4 - People that lives with the only purpose of hack and crack software.
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don't know much about this one. Are u saying that only free two week trial guys hack?
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5 - People that lives to harm everything.
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oddly.... even sensitive, caring "vets" like myself have been accussed of that one.
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you can combine various predator types into a single one with as many combinations as
you want. But, the common charasteristic is that none of them want to pay for anything.
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like I said... seems like more trouble than just paying but.... I don't want to take the chance of losing the good ones along with the bad. We could use some new blood IMO.
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lazs
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Peoplen abusing the free two week trial are caught on a regular basis. Some dope posted in the bug forum a long while back asking for help as he could no longer get the game to work. Someone from the staff posted a reply telling him that his 3 or 5 (I can't recal exactly) free trial periods were over and that he needed to pony up some cash to play this game. They went further and named the handles this person used over the time period. If someone has some information as to who or how someone may be getting away with cheating the owners out of the money they are due, I suggest they email them pronto as NOT to do so would be aiding and abbetting criminal behaviour.
My 2centavos,
Lizrd
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I feel that the free two week trial to AH is one of its biggest hooks for new customers. I think it is totally necessary because of that, no matter how many newbies are in the sky as a result of it. Virtually everyone here flew at least two weeks for free at some point.
That said, I can't stand abuse of the two week trial. Those people are easy to spot though, due to their disruptive nature or clever stepping to a different number behind their ID every two weeks (Eh VicS18?)
AKDejaVu
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Vics is abusing the free two week trial??
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Well HBlair,
vics12,vics13,vics14,vics15,vics16,vics17 and vics18 have all played in the last 4 months, evenly spaced out and usually flying the same type of planes.
I suppose it could be a coincidence... and the FDBs migh actually be a sober cleancut group of guys who all know their fathers.
AKDejaVu
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AH was and is my first online flight sim. I experienced the game and thrill of real tough enemy fighters. As far as I remember, I was never bothered with landing on a runway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif). But I liked the challenge.
Without the 2 trial weeks I wouldn't have thought about joining the game and pay a monthly fee.
TMO it is the only way for HTC to gather new player. Aces High is more than a refugee camp of dissapointed WarBirdies.