Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Mr Blue on July 28, 2008, 07:18:35 PM
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Im new so im still looking for the plane i like the most.. i like something fast some werer between the alt of 2-10k and something that turns pretty good.. and of course becuz my aim isnt the best.. i like something that does some big damage when it hits.. so i figure if ima gona mess a lot i wana hit hard when i do..
so im useing the n1k2 and the spitfire 16..
what do you guys think? would those planes be good for the type of plane im looking for?
plz help :aok
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Well, I'd recommend flying as much as possible (if not always) the Spitfires Mk V and IX for a while (i.e. maybe a month I guess). The Mk V turns better, whilst I think the Mk IX is faster.
The reason for this is that if you fly a really really really good plane like the ones you were asking about, they're essentially so good that it's very easy to develop 'bad habits' with them, because they're just so good that you can still make mistakes and be successful (thus causing you to repeat the mistakes etc). However, a not-so-good plane forces you to do things 'correctly' (whatever correctly is :rolleyes:) and thus helps you to become a better pilot.
If you need any help with very basic stuff, such as take-offs, successful landings, understanding sort of how the online game works, please PM me on these forums, or PM me in-game if you see me (McWatt) online. I'll be happy to help.
Also, I'm going to try and compile a list of all the websites that I've found with helpful information about the game, and post that on here, but it may take a few days. Also, try and find a Trainer, who'll be an excellent help to you.
Have fun & <S>
Yossarian
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Im new so im still looking for the plane i like the most.. i like something fast some werer between the alt of 2-10k and something that turns pretty good.. and of course becuz my aim isnt the best.. i like something that does some big damage when it hits.. so i figure if ima gona mess a lot i wana hit hard when i do..
so im useing the n1k2 and the spitfire 16..
what do you guys think? would those planes be good for the type of plane im looking for?
plz help :aok
My personal advise to you is to fly a plane that's going to give you some trigger-time. You're really not going to start having a lot of fun until your aim improves allowing you to kill faster. Killing and dying is alot more fun than not killing and not dying, so speed is not that important at first, learn to kill first then later learn how to not get killed, it's more fun that way. So, fly a plane that you can stay glued to someone's Six with and hammer away with for a while to learn deflection shooting and some basic ACMs. So, what you really need is a plane that turns reasonably well and has a lot of ammunition, because you are going to miss a lot for awhile. There's nothing more frustrating for a beginner than running out of ammunition mid-fight or before someone manages to tower you. Here's my plane suggestions and why:
Niki- Lots of ammunition, one of the better turners and has a great nose-low deflection view which will let you practice a wider variety of shots.
F6F- Lots of ammunition, a decent turner, very durable which will help with trigger-time and has a great nose-low deflection view which will let you practice a wider variety of shots.
F4U-1A- Good ammoload, a decent turner and very durable which will help with trigger-time.
*- None of these have a mixed gun package which simplifies gunnery compared to mixed gun platforms.
Incidentally, both the F6F and the F4U-1A have an ENY value of 15 making them all but immune to being unavailable due to the ENY limiter.
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as zazen said
and i wish i had flown one sooner
f4u-1a is a good turner its fast too so you can bnz in it, only draw back is that with more than 2-3 notches of flaps and at sloooow speed it can be a bit of a handful if your stick heavy its very easy to snaproll and hit the ground.
IMO f4u's are just about the best planes in the game
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109s are great to learn in. They r a BIG challenge to fly at first but once u get to be an average pilot with them and then when u fly other planes u will be darn near invincible(atleast it seems). I fly the k-4 because its fast climbs very well and is very manuevarable(before i get killed to death about this comment try flying it between 250-350 it out turns everything) and forces u to have great aim and patience with ur shots. I will be willing to fly with u to work on ur skills but I am by no means an expert but I could teach u some stuff. my ingame is theace47.
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Well, I'd recommend flying as much as possible (if not always) the Spitfires Mk V and IX for a while (i.e. maybe a month I guess). The Mk V turns better, whilst I think the Mk IX is faster.
Everyone recomends Spits for true beginners. But it wouldn't be my first choice for a few reasons. Sure, it's forgiving and maneuvers well, but it's not the greatest gunnery platform, especially for beginners. It has poor nose-low deflection view, a mixed gun package and a fairly short clip. New players are frustrated enough as it is without the chance of running out of ammo before they get killed, no sense frustrating them further.
Maximum maneuverability and forgiveness isn't crucial for beginners, they won't be "riding the edge" of any plane for the most part until they reach the intermediate level. Turning a bit tighter is not worth it if it means running out of ammo, otherwise makeable shots, that could otherwise be practiced, being lost behind the visual obstruction of the engine cowling and a less straightforward, therefore less intuitive, gun package. Also, the Spit has pretty poor survivability for a beginner, it doesn't take hits well and a poorly flown Spit is one of the easiest kills in the game. This all means less trigger-time, which means less gunnery practice, which means less killing, which leads to heightened frustration and less fun. I would classify the Spits as Intermediate planes.
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sounds like the k4 is a perfect fit!
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Fly Luftwaffe :aok :devil
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I have a boatload of 109 films if you want to watch or if you fly rook by chance wing with anyone in my squad,
were all 109/190 geeks
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You've gotten some good advice so far, but nobody bothered to ask you in which arena you fly. It makes a difference. Everyone always assumes the Late War is the ONLY arena anyone ever flies - the Mid War and Early War arenas have a smaller set of planes since some weren't developed back then. So if someone says to fly the F4U-1a or the Spit16, those planes might not be available in the arena that you're flying.
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Everyone recomends Spits for true beginners. But it wouldn't be my first choice for a few reasons. Sure, it's forgiving and maneuvers well, but it's not the greatest gunnery platform, especially for beginners. It has poor nose-low deflection view, a mixed gun package and a fairly short clip. New players are frustrated enough as it is without the chance of running out of ammo before they get killed, no sense frustrating them further.
Maximum maneuverability and forgiveness isn't crucial for beginners, they won't be "riding the edge" of any plane for the most part until they reach the intermediate level. Turning a bit tighter is not worth it if it means running out of ammo, otherwise makeable shots, that could otherwise be practiced, being lost behind the visual obstruction of the engine cowling and a less straightforward, therefore less intuitive, gun package. Also, the Spit has pretty poor survivability for a beginner, it doesn't take hits well and a poorly flown Spit is one of the easiest kills in the game. This all means less trigger-time, which means less gunnery practice, which means less killing, which leads to heightened frustration and less fun. I would classify the Spits as Intermediate planes.
True enough but what the Spits DO have is at least one advantage over nearly every plane in the arena. They are faster than the more dedicated turners and turn better than anything faster. They have impressive climb rates and the later models have great acceleration. They also hold onto energy in a turn better than just about anything.
The true beauty for a beginner though is that they allow for true T'n'B or B'n'Z style fighting with equal ease until the person learns what style of fighting they prefer. Also, they don't require the flap work that one needs to be succesful in the F4U or the F6F. I would say that flap work should be learned in the intermediate stages of pilot development rather than out of the gate, where improper technique will get you killed rather quickly.
My suggestion, as always, is to learn in the Spit VIII or Spit IX. The VIII has performance similar to the XVI but is more forgiving. The IX is probably the best balanced Spit but is slightly lower powered than the VIII or XVI.
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I wouldn't recommend an F4U to a new guy.
The F4U's in this game get a good rep because the guys that fly it have experience and thus no way to judge what F4U's are like "out of the gate." For a new guy, they are tough planes to learn. If any one doesn't believe me, I invite you to completely switch your joystick set up. If you had a very tight control, grab a very loose one. If you used a twisty stick, grab some peddals. Now go pick up an F4U to relearn in. It's not so easy - and you'll actually have the advantage of knowing what you want to do, which a newer guy does not.
Also it's a plane that requires excessive control work to get good results out of. Competent coordination of flaps, rudder, (heck, even gear) are necessary to truly get the most out of it. That's an awful lot to think about when you're *just* starting this game.
Spit IX's are easy enough... Forgiving and only one flap stage to worry about. Much better, IMO, for learning on. Just go easy on the shooting. It's a gun, after all, not a firehose.
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You've gotten some good advice so far, but nobody bothered to ask you in which arena you fly. It makes a difference. Everyone always assumes the Late War is the ONLY arena anyone ever flies - the Mid War and Early War arenas have a smaller set of planes since some weren't developed back then. So if someone says to fly the F4U-1a or the Spit16, those planes might not be available in the arena that you're flying.
He said he flies the Spit16 right now, so that means LW.
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The true beauty for a beginner though is that they allow for true T'n'B or B'n'Z style fighting with equal ease until the person learns what style of fighting they prefer.
Any true beginner's aim and timing is going to be really bad, BnZ'ing would be a complete waste of time. It would be such a slow method to get "trigger-time" it would stunt their growth indefinitely. That's why I recommended a decent turner with lots of ammo. They need to get in there, play "follow the leader" with bandits to learn some basic ACM's and hammer away with lots of ammo to learn deflection shooting.
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Yea.. today i tried the F4U-1A and the F6F like Zazen mentioned i should..
I likeed the F6F a little more.. a lot more to tell the truth.. like he said.. has a lot of fire power. my first time up with it.. sucked.. but i took a lot of hits, which suprised me cuz i would never been able to take so many hits with the spitfire 16. and the second time up.. got 2kills and 1 asssists. and i landed (doesnt happen to often :D) and i still had a LOT of firepower left.. so i liked it and went at it again.. didnt do to bad.. i took it out 6times and got 4kills and 2 assissts.. not bad for a starter. not bad at all i thought..
doesnt turn like the spitfire16. it feels a lot heavier.. and it is. but man can i take some hits, and live to tell the story.
so my next question is.. since i felt it harder to turn.. and heavy. whats the best way to get out of a bad situation.. like someone on my 6.. is it going up.. down. or turn fight?
and thanks zazen.. im pretty happy and having fun with the F6F :cool:
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Yea.. today i tried the F4U-1A and the F6F like Zazen mentioned i should..
I likeed the F6F a little more.. a lot more to tell the truth.. like he said.. has a lot of fire power. my first time up with it.. sucked.. but i took a lot of hits, which suprised me cuz i would never been able to take so many hits with the spitfire 16. and the second time up.. got 2kills and 1 asssists. and i landed (doesnt happen to often :D) and i still had a LOT of firepower left.. so i liked it and went at it again.. didnt do to bad.. i took it out 6times and got 4kills and 2 assissts.. not bad for a starter. not bad at all i thought..
doesnt turn like the spitfire16. it feels a lot heavier.. and it is. but man can i take some hits, and live to tell the story.
so my next question is.. since i felt it harder to turn.. and heavy. whats the best way to get out of a bad situation.. like someone on my 6.. is it going up.. down. or turn fight?
and thanks zazen.. im pretty happy and having fun with the F6F :cool:
No probelm sir, glad to be of some help. :salute
Unlike the Spit, the F6F has tremendously useful maneuvering flaps. If you're in deep poo with a bandit closing on your six, turn sharply one direction, not a flat turn, but oblique (some horizontal and some vertical component), drop a notch or two of flaps then swing back the other way hard and look for Mr. Bandit, he's probably not on your six any more. Raise the flaps back up and either try to escape or glue to his arse and hammer away. This is called forcing an overshoot, if you're going slowly you may even be able to drop a notch of flaps before the first break-turn. The faster the enemy is closing on you the better, the greater the speed differential when you do this the more likely he is not going to be able to dump enough E to stay there and will fly right by you.
To quote "Top Gun"..."Hang-on Goose, I'm going to slam on the breaks and watch him fly right by!..."-Maverick (Tom Cruise)
Since you like the F6F, there's a few things you should know other than what I've already told you.
1) It holds its E really well which is a double edged sword. It's harder to "dump it" (slow down) but after a dive it takes a long time to slow back down to cruising speed often allowing you to chase down or escape from other, normally faster planes.
2) It's a really heavy bird so can get sluggish in turns especially if you don't use the flaps, get in the habit of throwing a notch of flaps out if you're doing a lot of sustained turning, just remember to pull it back in when you stop turning. The other part of being heavy is inertia. All heavy planes tend to zoom climb well due to their mass increasing inertia. So, after a dive on someone lower you can gradually pull your nose back up above the horizon toward the vertical then zoom back up before your energy dissipates. The F6F zoom climbs better than lighter planes.
3) To make use of the great visibility adjust your views with page-up, especially the normal front view, this way you're able to practice a lot of different varieties of deflection shots you wouldn't even be able to see otherwise. Just pick one of the complex looking crosshairs so you can have another reference point for aiming since you won't be able to see the boresight.
4) As mentioned the F6F is already pretty heavy, so you don't want to exacerbate that with a larger than necessary fuel load. Try to get a feel for how much fuel you need for flights and only pack what you think you'll need. I would recommend packing 50% gas but bring Drop tanks that you will drop at the first sign of trouble as your default load.
If you need any help Im sure one of our trainers would love to show you some things online. I am glad you are enjoying AH and the F6F.
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I rate the fw-190 at the moment.Its fast with a good roll rate,there is a variant and gun package for all types of fighting. I particularly favour the A8 as it kills bombers with ease,a reasonable shot will nail any aircraft out there with plenty of ammo to spare,you dont even need to take the 30mm cannon option.
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i use the seafire and spits for fighter interception, and i use the yak 9-t and il-2 for bomber interception, the il-2 maybe a bomber but it is widely used as a fighter because it takes so much damage without dieing. it took a p-51 800-1000 direct hits on the wing to bring me down and after 7 over shoots :eek:
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FM2......... :aok
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F4U-1A- Good ammoload, a decent turner and very durable which will help with trigger-time.
Actually after flying F4U-1A quite a bit during my 2 week freebie, I found it one of the better turners. Could just be rust on my part.
I'd chose the spit9 over the 8 anyday, while the 16 is nothing special imho.
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Actually after flying F4U-1A quite a bit during my 2 week freebie, I found it one of the better turners. Could just be rust on my part.
I'd chose the spit9 over the 8 anyday, while the 16 is nothing special imho.
Yea, F4U1A is pretty slick. Alot like the Spit16 specifically because it can do the butter shurning panic stir really well.
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I recommend flying whatever you want to fly, it took me over 4 years to learn I loved the Me-109 series, well lets just say I still suck in the 109,
but I am loving every time I take it up to fly.
If you do the same you will just enjoy the game more and more and not really care how amazing the plane is.
just my opinion :aok
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true, the 109f is a nice ride.. all of them are...
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Actually after flying F4U-1A quite a bit during my 2 week freebie, I found it one of the better turners. Could just be rust on my part.
No, flaps out the F4U is one of the best at low speed. Sadly, at low speed the thing is over modeled, bigtime.
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I wouldn't recommend an F4U to a new guy.
The F4U's in this game get a good rep because the guys that fly it have experience and thus no way to judge what F4U's are like "out of the gate." For a new guy, they are tough planes to learn. If any one doesn't believe me, I invite you to completely switch your joystick set up. If you had a very tight control, grab a very loose one. If you used a twisty stick, grab some peddals. Now go pick up an F4U to relearn in. It's not so easy - and you'll actually have the advantage of knowing what you want to do, which a newer guy does not.
Also it's a plane that requires excessive control work to get good results out of. Competent coordination of flaps, rudder, (heck, even gear) are necessary to truly get the most out of it. That's an awful lot to think about when you're *just* starting this game.
Spit IX's are easy enough... Forgiving and only one flap stage to worry about. Much better, IMO, for learning on. Just go easy on the shooting. It's a gun, after all, not a firehose.
same goes for 109s IMO, i also agree with del
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its alright to start off in an F4u - long as you stick with it through thick and thin. I think major problem some have is
they realize they can't fight "every fight" whether vert or slow speed what not and get frustrated and stop flying the particular plane.
Even for new pilot if you fly and learn the F4u you only get better and do less mistakes over time.
Granted I normally would agree new pilots shouldn't fly F4u, but I would actually recommend it if your willing to stick to the bird
and learn it. Plenty of good F4u sticks that can help ya.
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its alright to start off in an F4u - long as you stick with it through thick and thin. I think major problem some have is
they realize they can't fight "every fight" whether vert or slow speed what not and get frustrated and stop flying the particular plane.
Even for new pilot if you fly and learn the F4u you only get better and do less mistakes over time.
Granted I normally would agree new pilots shouldn't fly F4u, but I would actually recommend it if your willing to stick to the bird
and learn it. Plenty of good F4u sticks that can help ya.
You definately notice that your not making less mistakes as you go. I say that as a fairly new pilot too. Here is an example of how u notice that.
When I started playing I used to always fall for the rope and then as i got more expericenced i got to where I wouldn't always fall for it and I'd say I think I have enough speed to keep up with him. The truth was I was right only about 50% percent of the time. Now 2 months later from that percentage I think I have gotten to the point of not falling for it 90% of the time and I also have killed many people who underestimated my E state and let me shoot them out of the sky.
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THe Spitfire Mk V is a great plane to learn in. It turns very well (dont try to turn with a zeke, though), it had good speed (dont try to run with a Tyhoon or Fw190, though), and it has more than adequate firepower (but ammo is low).
THe Mk V will allow a new guy to learn the basics of a fighter plane, without being in a plane that excels at anything. Also, the Spit V requires some landing to refuel and re-arm as well. More practice in landing and taking off. ;)
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THe Spitfire Mk V is a great plane to learn in. It turns very well (dont try to turn with a zeke, though), it had good speed (dont try to run with a Tyhoon or Fw190, though),
:huh
The Spitfire Mk V is one of the slowest fighter AH2 has to offer. On the deck it's like #46 out of 58 fighters in terms of top speed, and unlike later Spit's, the accelration isn't stellar at all.
I don't recommend a Mk V to new players, because you need skill & discipline with it. In the LW MA's ist's hard to get into a good firing position because of the mentioned speed/accel weakness. And if you get there, you need to be a good shot - for a new player the ammo loadout is just too small.
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I don't recommend a Mk V to new players, because you need skill & discipline with it. In the LW MA's ist's hard to get into a good firing position because of the mentioned speed/accel weakness. And if you get there, you need to be a good shot - for a new player the ammo loadout is just too small.
Lusche, do you happen to know how many 1 second bursts you can get out of the Spit V (and other models, for that matter), before the cannon is emptied?
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Sadly, at low speed the thing is over modeled, bigtime.
Perhaps at full power... When you start tinkering with your throttle it starts to get pretty easy to wind up in flat spins (not exactly the best thing to be in at 1k off the deck :) )
I'm sure every plane in the set has its innaccuracies, but I wonder how much is due to people just being able to auger & up and learn in here, as opposed to just auger & die in real life, as well as considerations like running around full power everywhere and such. I think innaccurate "pilots" would get pretty innaccurate results.
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Lusche, do you happen to know how many 1 second bursts you can get out of the Spit V (and other models, for that matter), before the cannon is emptied?
The charts at http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php can tell you. Firing time for Spit V cannons is 5 seconds
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The charts at http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php can tell you. Firing time for Spit V cannons is 5 seconds
Thanks for the link, I forgot about that one :)
Five seconds is 0-10 kills depending on aim... Not a bad way to judge your improvement :aok
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I don't like getting the F4U under 250mph TAS if I can avoid it. She may have one of the best turn radii in the game, (this isn't the place to debate how things are modelled) but the turn RATE suffers so she'll ultimately lose a prolonged turning contest against most opponents--you HAVE to take the scalp QUICK or he's going to be around on you. It takes an experienced stick to know where to put his nose to get that shot in a low-speed fight, and moreover takes someone who's a good shot to be able to take advantage of that opportunity when it arises. As has been pointed out, the F4U requires a lot more hands-on work to really take advantage of what she can do in a fight. The flaps are superb, but it takes experience to know when to deploy them. Too soon and you'll overshoot the turn. Too late and you won't get around enough. Also, changing directions while hovering at the stall is very dicey. Stability may be a little better in the stall than it should be (but this can be said to varying degrees for ALL planes as well) but as much time as I've had in her I still let her get away from me, especially when changing from a left to right turn.
Additionally, unless you're in a -4 (and considering the circumstances of the post it's a pretty good bet he's not) once you shed all that speed to turn with the Spitties you're in BIG trouble. More than most other aircraft in any multi-plane engagement the F4U needs to stay fast.
There's a rare few pilots that can hover around at 75mph and rack up 5+ kills in a 30-plane furball and get out of it alive to land them, but I don't recommend it for most players, especially those just learning her. Keep her between 250-350mph though and she's one of the best all-around fighters there is (build up the perks to take the -4 for a ride and you'll find out why she IS the best). She just takes time and practice to really become rewarding.
But if you're looking for motivation, just remember...
(http://vmf251-buccaneers.net/images/RecruitingBabeSmall.png)
:D
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She just takes time and practice to really become rewarding.
...Which would require getting below 250 IAS and mixing it up. Often.
(I'm not a big fan of the "keep it fast" mentality :D)
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I'm in the 250 below club as often as possible.
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Whenever I take a hog up I have lots of fun in it until I inevitably spin it around somehow st00pid and kill myself.
Navy birds just don't get along with me very much. F6F is probably my favorite.
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F4U-1 is the only one i manage to get some crazy stalls from, others aren't as bad.
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The reason for this is that if you fly a really really really good plane like the ones you were asking about, they're essentially so good that it's very easy to develop 'bad habits' with them, because they're just so good that you can still make mistakes and be successful (thus causing you to repeat the mistakes etc). However, a not-so-good plane forces you to do things 'correctly' (whatever correctly is :rolleyes:) and thus helps you to become a better pilot.
This is very intelligent advice. Not flying a ufo ride like the Spixteen has good long-term effects on a new pilot. He may not land kills as quickly as the new guy in the spixteen, but he will learn a lot more about acm and energy management, and a few months down the line the spixteen pilot will plateau while the new pilot who flies an OK airplane will surpass him.