Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Cthulhu on July 31, 2008, 10:28:04 AM
-
This appeared on the Editorial Page of the Richmond Times-Dispatch July 7, 2008. If you think it is appropriate for the times, pass it on.
Editor
Times-Dispatch
Each year I get to celebrate Independence Day twice. On June 30, I celebrate my independence day and on July 4, I celebrate America's. This year is special because it marks the 40th anniversary of my independence.
On June 30, 1968, I escaped Communist Cuba and a few months later, I was in the United States to stay. That I happened to arrive in Richmond on Thanksgiving Day is just part of the story, but I digress.
I've thought a lot about the anniversary this year. The election-year rhetoric has made me think a lot about Cuba and what transpired there. In the late 1950's, most Cubans thought Cuba needed a change, and they were right. So when a young leader came along, every Cuban was at least receptive.
When the young leader spoke eloquently and passionately and denounced the old system, the press fell in love with him. They never questioned who his friends were or what he really believed in. When he said he would help the farmers and the poor and bring free medical care and education to all, everyone followed. When he said he would bring justice and equality to all, everyone said "Praise the Lord." And when the young leader said, "I will be for change and I'll bring you change, everyone yelled, "Viva Fidel!"
But nobody asked about the change, so by the time the executioner's guns went silent, the people's guns had been taken away. By the time everyone was equal, they were equally poor, hungry, and oppressed. By the time everyone received their free education, it was worth nothing. By the time the press noticed, it was too late, because they were now working for him. By the time the change was finally implemented, Cuba had been knocked down a couple of notches to Third-World status. By the time the change was over, more than a million people had taken to boats, rafts, and inner tubes. You can call those who made it ashore anywhere else in the world most fortunate Cubans. And now I'm back to the beginning of my story.
Luckily, we would never fall in America for a left-leaning young leader who promises change without asking, "What change? How will you carry it out? What will it cost America?"
Would we?
Manuel Alvarez, Jr
-
Yeah that about sums it up.
-
LOL... that is some funny stuff there.
Is Obama a Commie or a Muslim? I wish you guys would make up your minds.
-
A little of each, after all, this is the melting pot isn't it.
-
Anyone who thinks that the government should provide anything for the people other than for the common defence is a commie in my book. Wellfare programs are communist by nature, socialized health care, hell yeah that communist by nature. The ENTIRE left wing PC crowd is nothing but a bunch of commies. We should do it for the greater good?? Give me a break. I'm an American, I could care less about the greater good. I take care of myself and my family first. Why should my family and I have to take our money, give it to the government, to be dolled back out to folks that are too damn lazy to work for it? For the greater good? That's how a commie thinks, and that's how your boy Obama thinks. The end of strife in America can be solved with enough social programs so everyone feels equal. Piss on that. That's NOT what this country is supposed to be about. Those that can do, and those that can't get left behind. Yeah it's harsh but life is harsh, at least it supposed to be.
-
You drive to work on a private road?
-
Hornet,
That's real interesting there. I have a question then.
I grew up on Social Security since my Dad died when I was 7. My mother did work but was hardly able to maintain the household finances totally on her own. According to your utopia paradigm, we should have been told that's tough and been left to starve or scavenge on our own. Is this really the situation you want to espouse?
BTW do you figure that the FDA, FAA and other Federal agencies do not have a role in maintaining either your lifestyle, security, health and other benefits since they are not defense related? How about the Coast Guard? Under your standard there is no need of lifesaving missions and therefor the Navy has all the resources for defense. No need for the Coasties. Yes I know they have other missions but that is one of their largest. The rest could be handled as well by the other services.
-
Hornet,
That's real interesting there. I have a question then.
I grew up on Social Security since my Dad died when I was 7. My mother did work but was hardly able to maintain the household finances totally on her own. According to your utopia paradigm, we should have been told that's tough and been left to starve or scavenge on our own. Is this really the situation you want to espouse?
BTW do you figure that the FDA, FAA and other Federal agencies do not have a role in maintaining either your lifestyle, security, health and other benefits since they are not defense related? How about the Coast Guard? Under your standard there is no need of lifesaving missions and therefor the Navy has all the resources for defense. No need for the Coasties. Yes I know they have other missions but that is one of their largest. The rest could be handled as well by the other services.
Mav, I don't think that's what he meant. Your Mom and Dad paid into the system which entitles you to that money. I believe the beef is providing benefits to people like illegal immigrants that haven't paid into the system. My first wife passed at 27. She had two daughters from a previous relationship that received Social Security benefits. Just like them, you received the benefits that you parent would have gotten if he lived to retirement......Just my 2 cents..... :salute
-
SpazMan,
Look again at the beginning of Hornet's post, here I'll quote it for you.
"Anyone who thinks that the government should provide anything for the people other than for the common defence is a commie in my book. Wellfare programs are communist by nature, socialized health care, hell yeah that communist by nature."
Please note that taxes paid to the government are not specifically earmarked to a particular portion of the government. In other words you can't tell the irs that your taxes only go to the Military so ANY money paid for any welfare services is communist in Hornets book. It's not related to the "common defense".
-
LOL... that is some funny stuff there.
Is Obama a Commie or a Muslim? I wish you guys would make up your minds.
Why's it funny?
If it's authentic then it comes from a person whose experience in applied politics is pretty relevant to any election, not just this one. Of course, just because it happened in Cuba doesn't mean it can happen here, right? We are the most special people in the world, afterall, and completely immune to parasitic political agendas as the last decade and half has proven.
-
Social security is not a wellfare program. And yes I over simplified my statement. My problem is with all the social programs and the social conditioning they breed. How many people do you know that have been on wellfare their entire lives? I know a bunch and they have NO desire to get off that wellfare. It's free money and they don't have to do a damn thing to earn it, and where does that money come from? Your's and my taxes. To continualy take from those of us that do work hard and continualy give to those that don't and provide them with benifits that they have not earned is what I consider communist, and that's EXACTLY what Obama and all the other left wing Democrats want to do.
The more they can make the people of this country dependant on the government for their very survival the more power they have, and the more power they get the more freedoms they'll take away for "the greater good".
-
Social security is not a wellfare program. And yes I over simplified my statement. My problem is with all the social programs and the social conditioning they breed. How many people do you know that have been on wellfare their entire lives? I know a bunch and they have NO desire to get off that wellfare. It's free money and they don't have to do a damn thing to earn it, and where does that money come from? Your's and my taxes. To continualy take from those of us that do work hard and continualy give to those that don't and provide them with benifits that they have not earned is what I consider communist, and that's EXACTLY what Obama and all the other left wing Democrats want to do.
The more they can make the people of this country dependant on the government for their very survival the more power they have, and the more power they get the more freedoms they'll take away for "the greater good".
To the point of the welfare system, in order to get a paying job these days you need to take a drug test. Well I believe that the same should go for the welfare system. If you want a check you should be subject to random drug tests just like most employees......
-
SpazMan,
Look again at the beginning of Hornet's post, here I'll quote it for you.
"Anyone who thinks that the government should provide anything for the people other than for the common defence is a commie in my book. Wellfare programs are communist by nature, socialized health care, hell yeah that communist by nature."
Please note that taxes paid to the government are not specifically earmarked to a particular portion of the government. In other words you can't tell the irs that your taxes only go to the Military so ANY money paid for any welfare services is communist in Hornets book. It's not related to the "common defense".
I did read the post and there is a difference between social security and welfare. Welfare is unearned money and social security is paid for by your parents hence you were entitled to that.
-
Why's it funny?
If it's authentic then it comes from a person whose experience in applied politics is pretty relevant to any election, not just this one. Of course, just because it happened in Cuba doesn't mean it can happen here, right? We are the most special people in the world, afterall, and completely immune to parasitic political agendas as the last decade and half has proven.
You know Slipknot, the ironic (and frightening) thing is that those very words could have been spoken by a German citizen in 1945. In no way am I comparing Obama to Hitler, but if the educated, level-headed, practical Germans bought into something they later regretted, then why can't we?
-
You know Slipknot, the ironic (and frightening) thing is that those very words could have been spoken by a German citizen in 1945. In no way am I comparing Obama to Hitler, but if the educated, level-headed, practical Germans bought into something they later regretted, then why can't we?
We'll get wise one way or another, Cthulhu. Sadly, it's more likely that this wisdom will come through hindsight, rather than anticipation.
-
LOL... that is some funny stuff there.
Is Obama a Commie or a Muslim? I wish you guys would make up your minds.
He's a Nazi. He spoke in front of 200,000 Germans and that made us all very uncomfortable. We are just a little worried about Germans in large groups, as I am sure everyone can understand.
-
Funny... i just checked the Richmond Times Dispatch editorial page... they don't seem to have this little gem listed.
Could it be possible that this whole thing is a load of b$?
Survey says...
(http://www.eastquad.com/wp-content/uploads/the-survey-says-0.jpg)
ITS A LOAD OF CRAP... hehehe
-
Anyone ever notice when a certain MoonbaT speaks, he actually says nothing?
-
Wasn't to hard to find....
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/search.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-07-07-0033.html (http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/search.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-07-07-0033.html)
Article number two.
-
Wasn't to hard to find....
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/search.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-07-07-0033.html (http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/search.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-07-07-0033.html)
Article number two.
Thx Seraphim :aok
Funny... i just checked the Richmond Times Dispatch editorial page... they don't seem to have this little gem listed.
Could it be possible that this whole thing is a load of b$?
Survey says...
ITS A LOAD OF CRAP... hehehe
Looks like I did my homework a little better than some. :D
He's a Nazi. He spoke in front of 200,000 Germans and that made us all very uncomfortable. We are just a little worried about Germans in large groups, as I am sure everyone can understand.
One interesting thing about those 200,000 Germans. According to the New York Times: “Senator Barack Obama drew a crowd of more than 200,000, according to German estimates, in Berlin on Thursday“. The little known (in the US at least) reality of it, is that it included a free rock concert with free food and beer. Hell, I'd show up for that!
Want to know more:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/27/200000-germans-love-a-free-rock-concert/
-
Good reading here!! Good points on both sides!
-
Funny... i just checked the Richmond Times Dispatch editorial page... they don't seem to have this little gem listed.
Could it be possible that this whole thing is a load of b$?
Survey says...
(http://www.eastquad.com/wp-content/uploads/the-survey-says-0.jpg)
ITS A LOAD OF CRAP... hehehe
Wasn't to hard to find....
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/search.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-07-07-0033.html
Article number two.
SURVEY SAYS!
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/acfireguy26/the-survey-says-01.jpg)
PWNED!!
-
... I grew up on Social Security since my Dad died when I was 7. My mother did work but was hardly able to maintain the household finances totally on her own. According to your utopia paradigm, we should have been told that's tough and been left to starve or scavenge on our own. Is this really the situation you want to espouse?
...
I dont think thats what he was saying. I also dont think its a function of government to hold a gun to our heads sieze our money and redistribute it to people without. This should be a function of local communities churches and charities. Since the government openly engages in anti-church rhetoric its obvious to me the government doesnt like competition in this area. This is another reason I think we should march on Washington with torches pitchforks nooses tar and feathers and change our government in a second revolution.
-
I grew up on Social Security since my Dad died when I was 7. My mother did work but was hardly able to maintain the household finances totally on her own. According to your utopia paradigm, we should have been told that's tough and been left to starve or scavenge on our own. Is this really the situation you want to espouse?
You would have had to quit school at a young age to help support the family. You would have learned the value of a dollar ,the meaning of hard work, experienced the freedom of frugality, and the power of self reliance. You would have started your first business at 17, paid for your first house by the time you were 21, made your first million at 28. By 35 you would be a staunch conservative and worship Rush Limbaugh all the while complaining about your silver-spoon over privileged kids who just don't know how good they got it.
-
Challenge,
Actually that is exactly what he said. Look at what he wrote. I understand now he is saying he oversimplified it but that's another issue.
Part 1. Anyone who thinks that the government should provide anything for the people other than for the common defence is a commie in my book. Please note that SS is not common defense. Therefore according to his statement it's in the "anything" category and the goverment should not be providing it.
Part 2. Making the statement that he oversimplified it is a nice way of saying he didn't say it right or does not have a valid comment. If it's oversimplified then there ARE things the government should be providing other than the "common defense". OK, where does the providing stop? What makes one kind of providing valid and another not? The devil is always in the details.
-
He said welfare and you said social security. I dont know how you grew up on social security but it is not welfare.
I took from what he said that he meant pooling the taxes and redistributing them in an attempt to make things 'fair' was a communist ideal. I tend to agree with him on that.
-
Challenge,
Actually that is exactly what he said. Look at what he wrote. I understand now he is saying he oversimplified it but that's another issue.
Part 1. Anyone who thinks that the government should provide anything for the people other than for the common defence is a commie in my book. Please note that SS is not common defense. Therefore according to his statement it's in the "anything" category and the goverment should not be providing it.
Part 2. Making the statement that he oversimplified it is a nice way of saying he didn't say it right or does not have a valid comment. If it's oversimplified then there ARE things the government should be providing other than the "common defense". OK, where does the providing stop? What makes one kind of providing valid and another not? The devil is always in the details.
In response to part 2. Yes what I posted later was a nice way of saying, I didn't say what I wanted in the right way. As to where the providing STOPS is with all the damn free handouts. You received SS payments because your parents FIRST payed into the system. That's all good, and on a personal note I'm sory for your loss, that really sucks, but your parents worked and paid into the system and you received the benifits from their hard work. I have NO problem with that kind of thing.
Where I have the problem is when I see someone living in HUD housing, getting wellfare, food stamps, and every other government benifit they can get their greedy little hands on, are perfectly able to work, yet CHOOSE not to because if they actually got a job they would loose those benifits. They excists solely on the government dole, your and my tax dollars pay for their lives. These are the same people that will complain the loudest that the government isn't doing enough to help them. They are totaly reliant on the government to live and they get pissed when they see someone with better things than they have and expect the government to provide them with those things as well.
I live right around the corner from a HUD project here in Virginia Beach. I see it every day. I stood behind a girl at 7-11 awhile back and she's telling her friend that she wants to have anouther baby so she can get more wellfare payments. She was bragging about it, saying her last kid got her an extra $400 a month. She didn't seem to care who the father would be, just that she wanted anouther kid because of the money. Her friend was nodding her head agreeing with her, and I was standing there with a WTF look on my face. She has been conditioned to live off the government paycheck and has NO desire to do anything else.
I understand that there are times when things happen beyond a persons control and they might need help. I've been there. When I was medicaly retired from the Coast Guard for my heart condition I was out of work for over 6 months. My monthly income went from just over $4000 to $1800 a month. I still had my rent, truck payment, insurance, living expensses, child support, and every other bill I still had to pay and I was hurting bad. I went on unemployment for 4 months and that killed me to do it. I have ALWAYS worked for my money and to have to take a handout made me feel like a failure. I worked part time at the local bar cleaning up at the end of the night for cash, did odd electrical jobs for people, and scrapped by until I found a good job, but I never quit looking. I've been working for the company I'm at now since January and I'm still digging myself out of dept, but as soon as I got my job I called the unemployment office and told them I had a job and they could stop sending me payments. I've been conditioned to work for my money, be responsible for my life and actions, and to earn what I get.
Simple fact is that social programs like wellfare do nothing but create a class of people that will do nothing as long as the government is still willing to pay them to do nothing. The Democrats are also the champions of taking from the working people in this country and handing that money over to the people that depend on the government for their lives, and I personaly think that needs to end. Unemployment, wellfare, food stamps should ALL be a short term thing except in the most extreme circumstances, yet there are millions of people in this country that use those programs as a way of life. Not because they can't do anything else but because they're too lazy to do anything else.
Maybe they wouldn't be quite so lazy if there is a hard cutoff date from the time they start getting payments to when they get nothing. Hell if anything else make the recipients of those payments government employees and make them work for that check. Plenty of streets need to be cleaned, and HUD homes need a coat of paint. All the wellfare moms that "can't" work because of the children, well open up a bunch of daycare centers and all the moms on wellfare that live within 1 mile of that center are REQUIRED to work there a couple of days a week and take care of the children while the rest of the wellfare moms go out and sweep parking lots. They can rotate their shifts so everyone gets a chance to do their equal share. I also believe that anyone receiving wellfare payments should be REQUIRED to take a drug test at random intervals. You fail a test say goodbye to your check forever. Better yet make it requirement to test before they recieve EVERY check. You want your check, you come to the office, take the test, if you pass, you get your check, you fail, there's the door. Single women on wellfare should be REQUIRED to be on birth control. Single men over the age of 18 who are on wellfare should be REQUIRED to have a job and come off of wellfare within 1 year of their 18 birthday or be forced to serve 4 years in the military, border patrol, or some other government service position.
And here is the real kicker. If anyone had the stones to try and implement those ideas you KNOW Rev Jesse and Sharpton would SCREAM bloody murder about how the government is trying to strip away the rights of people that are down on their luck yadda yadda yadda. Well those are terms of eligability. NO ONE is FORCING you to go on wellfare, but if you do then these are the conditions, take it or leave it, you have the FREEDOM to choose.
Will never happen though because this entire country has been conditioned to accept the social programs as they are and that we as a people have an obligation to support the weak of mind and lazy of body people that scream and holla about how the government is holding them down. Anyone who supports the social programs as they are do NOTHING put perpetuate and enable the downhill slide this country has been on. Equality for all is a freaking joke. Freedom for all, hell yeah. You have the freedom to succeed or fail in this great country, but the government SHOULD NOT get involved in that choice to succeed or fail, and that's ALL that social programs do is to create an atmosphere for failure, and then everyone who supports them scratches their heads looking at each other wondering why. Give a man a fish and he'll want you to give him anouther one tomorrow. Teach him to fish and he'll either eat or starve, but leave it up to him. The strong will survive and the weak will be culled from the heard and as callous as that sounds, that's how it should be.
Throwing more money at the problem has NEVER solved a damn thing. How about we really try and change things in this country and stop throwing money at problems and see what happens. You know, leave it up to the people in the local communities to find a solution and stop relying on the fenderal government to take care of every little pothole in the road, crack house on the corner, and bad word said to some kid on the playground.
-
Snopes confirms it was a letter to the newspaper but doesn't go much beyond that.
-
don't want to quote the whole thing
Hornet33, I violently agree.