Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: redman555 on August 06, 2008, 09:32:24 AM

Title: odd guncam
Post by: redman555 on August 06, 2008, 09:32:24 AM
Always wondered, u know, you go through the guncam videos on youtube, and almost NONE of them, the person getting shot at is turning, i mean like this one, this spit is just sitting there takin the guns


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIqsDBYyXro&feature=related

-BigBOBCH
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Redlegs on August 06, 2008, 09:38:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se6rq8vean8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se6rq8vean8&feature=related)
There's some in here.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: MotorOil1 on August 06, 2008, 09:39:03 AM
Could be wounded?  Could be dead already?
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: redman555 on August 06, 2008, 09:40:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se6rq8vean8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se6rq8vean8&feature=related)
There's some in here.

yea, thats a good 1, ive seen b4, but i have seen videos of like F4Us turning wit zeros and stuff lol and then in game no way, even if u drop flaps

-BigBOBCH
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: BMathis on August 06, 2008, 09:44:53 AM
Nice post Redlegs,  :aok

<S>
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Redlegs on August 06, 2008, 09:46:55 AM
Nice post Redlegs,  :aok

<S>


Thank You

<S>
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: thrila on August 06, 2008, 09:52:56 AM
Bare in mind that gun cameras are frequently shown in slow motion and what you are seeing may have been very brief. 

I've some very good quality gun camera footage of Tempests over France, at home.  There is some fantastic deflection shooting in some of them.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Oleg on August 06, 2008, 10:10:25 AM
yea, thats a good 1, ive seen b4, but i have seen videos of like F4Us turning wit zeros and stuff lol and then in game no way, even if u drop flaps

F4U can turn with zero, just not too long. I did it several times and even won few fights.
But I quite sure there was no real turnfight in that video. Would like to see it anyway.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: JunkyII on August 06, 2008, 10:12:42 AM
Bare in mind that gun cameras are frequently shown in slow motion and what you are seeing may have been very brief. 

I've some very good quality gun camera footage of Tempests over France, at home.  There is some fantastic deflection shooting in some of them.
:confused: could you post this because Tempys are my favorite ride, but I didnt know about them until I played aces high.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Slamfire on August 06, 2008, 10:13:17 AM
i mean like this one, this spit is just sitting there takin the guns

Maybe he was AFK getting a beer.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2008, 10:15:59 AM
If it was a 38 I'd say he was in the kitchen making margaritas....
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: ImADot on August 06, 2008, 10:39:55 AM
Always wondered, u know, you go through the guncam videos on youtube, and almost NONE of them, the person getting shot at is turning, i mean like this one, this spit is just sitting there takin the guns

Motion is relative...perhaps the shooter is matching the prey's movements...perhaps the prey isn't trying too hard to evade (the term tumbleweed comes to mind).
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Anaxogoras on August 06, 2008, 10:48:24 AM
Hartmann said that 80% of his victories were against pilots who never knew what hit them.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Latrobe on August 06, 2008, 11:08:03 AM
Well you can see why they don't turn or anything....it's harder to hit them!  :D
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: LTARumbl on August 06, 2008, 11:15:32 AM
Try flying with icons off.. I imagine it would be easy to get bounced when you dont see a red icon 5k away.

As for gun cams, i would be willing to bet most are probably after the turn fighting has bled so much E that the fight returned to some sort of straight run to extend . Or just to make the person look good he had his friend fly straight.. lol.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: CAP1 on August 06, 2008, 11:58:27 AM
Hartmann said that 80% of his victories were against pilots who never knew what hit them.

and as much as i hate to say this, but didn't he tend to ""drop, shoot, climb back to safety"?
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2008, 12:04:08 PM
Bare in mind that gun cameras are frequently shown in slow motion and what you are seeing may have been very brief. 

Exactly. The Luftwaffe guncam films are usually playing only at 1/3rd speed. Slow down your film to 33% in AH filmviewer and you will have a similar effect.

Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Anaxogoras on August 06, 2008, 12:41:16 PM
and as much as i hate to say this, but didn't he tend to ""drop, shoot, climb back to safety, re-evalute"?

What, are you afraid of accusing him of cowardice? :lol  In real WW2 aerial combat that's how you flew if you wanted to survive the eastern front.  If the intended target avoided the attack, and after egressing the situation was not optimal for another attack, you would disengage entirely.  After all, it's easy to get picked yourself if you're in an extended dogfight!
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: evenhaim on August 06, 2008, 01:32:23 PM
IMO Marsielle was going to be the best. But its impossible to know
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: CAP1 on August 06, 2008, 02:01:35 PM
What, are you afraid of accusing him of cowardice? :lol  In real WW2 aerial combat that's how you flew if you wanted to survive the eastern front.  If the intended target avoided the attack, and after egressing the situation was not optimal for another attack, you would disengage entirely.  After all, it's easy to get picked yourself if you're in an extended dogfight!

nope. each and every pilot that launched an aircraft in combat, during that or any war is/are/were probably some of the bravest men alive.

 i was afraid that if i said that, that this thread would morph into one of those pickers vs tnbers vs ho'ers, etc.

 in rl, the way he flew was very smart, and very efficient too.

 i thought i had read somewhere that he had opened a flight school in germany.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: SkyRock on August 06, 2008, 02:27:36 PM
yea, thats a good 1, ive seen b4, but i have seen videos of like F4Us turning wit zeros and stuff lol and then in game no way, even if u drop flaps

-BigBOBCH
Bob, I have about 700 or so films of me in a hog-1 turning with nearly every plane in the set, I'll try to look one up for you.  The misconception about not being able to turnfight against a better turning plane is all in the initial AoA.  Of course you're not going to out flat turn a hurri2 after a couple of revolutions, but if you pick the right angles, and time it just right, you get a shot at winning.  :aok
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Anaxogoras on August 06, 2008, 04:30:12 PM
nope. each and every pilot that launched an aircraft in combat, during that or any war is/are/were probably some of the bravest men alive.

 i was afraid that if i said that, that this thread would morph into one of those pickers vs tnbers vs ho'ers, etc.

Ahhhh, I see.  That makes sense. :salute
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: A8TOOL on August 06, 2008, 07:49:53 PM
Always wondered, u know, you go through the guncam videos on youtube, and almost NONE of them, the person getting shot at is turning, i mean like this one, this spit is just sitting there takin the guns


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIqsDBYyXro&feature=related

-BigBOBCH


Stick stirring wasn't invented yet.  hehe

Maybe the old time cameras could not take th G's and get the shot or maybe they only turned them on when they were going to get a sure hit or kill. Many other reasons i suppose.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: LLogann on August 06, 2008, 09:01:05 PM
BigBOBCH <S> 

You have to remember that with no background, you never know how much movement goes on.  Sure the rudders, elevators and ailerons dont seem to be moving much, so it might be super slow motion to track individual  fire rate..... But in a dogfight, the attacker is moving with the defender.  It is possible on a bright day that there is movement going on that cant be tracked since the camera is fixed with the attack plane, with a good pilot that is actually staying tight on 6.  That may sound silly and the people out there would say "you'd see the aileron's moving up and down."   But with 1940's video technology, it may not always be the case.

Others have said wounded pilot and that is also quite possible.  As the film's saved by Germany would only point to Allies that were killed.

Always wondered, u know, you go through the guncam videos on youtube, and almost NONE of them, the person getting shot at is turning, i mean like this one, this spit is just sitting there takin the guns

-BigBOBCH
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Chalenge on August 06, 2008, 10:24:26 PM
i thought i had read somewhere that he had opened a flight school in germany.

After he was returned home from the Russian gulags he was the leading General of the post-war Luftwaffe.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: CAP1 on August 07, 2008, 12:02:06 AM
Ahhhh, I see.  That makes sense. :salute

yaaa.....

every so often, i have a brain fart, and make some sense......don't tell anyone though :D
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: CAP1 on August 07, 2008, 12:03:29 AM
After he was returned home from the Russian gulags he was the leading General of the post-war Luftwaffe.
it's ashame he was on the wrong side of the war. he was probably a great man.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: Golfer on August 07, 2008, 12:13:05 AM
How's where he was born change whether or not he was a great man?

He fought for his country the same as our airmen fought for ours.  He was a soldier.  No more and for sure no less.  If I was born in 1920 in Germany I would have fought on that side the same as you or anyone here.
Title: Re: odd guncam
Post by: CAP1 on August 07, 2008, 12:19:12 AM
How's where he was born change whether or not he was a great man?

He fought for his country the same as our airmen fought for ours.  He was a soldier.  No more and for sure no less.  If I was born in 1920 in Germany I would have fought on that side the same as you or anyone here.


well, i DID say he was probably a great man. i kind of meant that it sucked that he had to be born into a situation that put him on the wrong side. he ended up having to suffer a lot because of this.

 i would've actually liked to meet the man.