Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Enker on August 06, 2008, 04:10:26 PM

Title: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Enker on August 06, 2008, 04:10:26 PM
If im in a carrier, and headed to a base, I often take a full F4U 1D (in terms of ordinance, not fuel). I try to take off in one, and use WEP but, that only has a success rate of 1 in 17. To take off, should i use my flaps or some such?
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Krusty on August 06, 2008, 04:13:41 PM
If you have 2000lbs of bombs, 500lbs or more of rockets, and fuel, you MUST use full flaps, [Edit: Practically speaking] and even then you might barely make it depending on how well you can handle your ride. Full throttle, hit WEP, as you roll pop flaps so that at the end of the runway you have full flaps, and pull your gear up the second you're off the bow, as it acts as a speed brake.

As you gain a little altitude and speed slowly retract your flaps so that you don't instantly drop into the water once you are off the bow and think "Okay, now pull the flaps up".
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: whiteman on August 06, 2008, 04:26:00 PM
Like Krusty said drop your flaps all the way and use WEP and you can get one off with 100% fuel and full ammo load. raise your gear soon as you get off the deck and try to level out then raise your flap one notch at a time as you get some speed. should be good to go.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: caldera on August 06, 2008, 04:29:33 PM
It might help to hold the brakes while the motor spools up. Also try to keep the nose from lifting before the end of the deck.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: mtnman on August 06, 2008, 04:35:25 PM
One other trick that helps a lot is to back up on the deck first, so you can get a longer takeoff roll and have a bit more speed as you lift off.

To do that, start your engine and drop full flaps.  Now, advance the throttle a tiny amount, so the main gear brakes unlock.  You'll now start to slowly roll/blow backwards since the CV is moving forward at about 50 mph.  That's just enough wind resistance to allow you to back up.

Use your rear view to judge how close you want to get to the rear of the cv, and simply advance the throttle and takeoff when you're ready.

If you have your throttle advanced too little or too much.  There's a "sweet spot" you're looking for.

As you gain experience you'll probably find you don't need to back up, but at first it can sure make things easier.

MtnMan
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Krusty on August 06, 2008, 04:54:02 PM
Baby steps mtnman, let him crawl before he walks :)

Backing up is a little more on the advanced side and it helps to be able to take off (consistently) before he distracts himself with that extra step :)
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Rolex on August 06, 2008, 04:58:13 PM
A fully loaded aircraft always takes off from the CV using Autotakeoff, full flaps and WEP. Just sit there and retract flaps one notch at a time slowly after take off.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Krusty on August 06, 2008, 05:24:42 PM
I'm not too sure about that. I recall many a time in the past auto pilot would plow you into the water and ditch you (or worse let the CV ram you from behind), if you were in a slower plane with a very heavy load.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Rolex on August 06, 2008, 05:29:57 PM
If you're not sure, you should test it.

Another little tip for manual takeoffs is to bank right a few degrees after take off.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2008, 05:30:11 PM
A F4UD with full payload and internal fuel will take of on autopilot with full flaps & WEP engaged from start. It's wheels  may  briefly touch the water, but it will make it everytime.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Toof on August 06, 2008, 05:59:06 PM
I've manged to get off a carrier with most anything using the same method most 262/264 pilots use. Stand on the brakes, throttle up, and in the case of a prop plane, hit WEP and let everything get up to speed. It at least works for a fully loaded Hellcat(rockets + 2 100lber's) Not sure how much different the wing loading on a F4U may be, but it's a starting point. I never take off from a carrier with flaps down. May need to drop a notch or two in a Corsair, but that may be a starting point at least.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: whiteman on August 06, 2008, 06:08:50 PM
never use the auto takeoff on the cv, manual take off like i described i never come close to hitting water unless the cv starts to turn without notice from someone.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Widewing on August 06, 2008, 06:48:31 PM
I had a couple of guys practicing in the TA getting off of a carrier with full loads of ordnance. They were only taking 50% fuel. Going to full tanks resulted in several crashes.

I showed them that full flaps solves the problem without undue drama.

I also showed them that you get airborne, turn around and land with the full load of ordnance still under the wings.

Proper technique is all that is required. Thus, if you are having issues, stop by the TA and log some takeoffs and landings. If you wish some personal help, PM me and we'll schedule it.


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Marshal on August 06, 2008, 06:55:42 PM
If you do use auto takeoff you can still retract your gear the second you leave the deck instead of waiting for the auto retract. This way you do not have to worry about water skiing.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: BaldEagl on August 06, 2008, 07:08:51 PM
Hmmm... I've never used more than 2 notches of flaps in a fully loaded F6F-5 (WEP on).  I get a very very minor dip off the end of the deck but nothing dramatic.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Spikes on August 06, 2008, 07:42:10 PM
I'm going to restate if it already has been, but when you get off the deck, don't jump the gun and pull all your flaps back up. You'll still crash into the water. Pull them up one at a time in 10 second intervals, if you start to dip too close again, pop a notch back out.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: whiteman on August 07, 2008, 03:13:15 AM
tonight i paid attention, -1D 100% fuel, 2 1k bombs and 8 rockets and only needed 2 notches of flap with wep. probably didn't even need wep.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: HAMMERR on August 07, 2008, 10:41:02 AM
I agree whiteman, I never use more than 2 notches of flaps even in a full heavy -1D with 100% gas.

my process...

Hold brakes till full WEP spinup...
Wait till I pass the front turret..
tap 2 notches flaps
retract gear immediately off the end of the deck
plane usually falls 10-20 feet but i never tap the water.

The benefit is that since your carrying more speed than with the full flaps, the plane is more stable.  This method works even on fully turning carriers in either direction.

NOTE:  If the cruiser is cutting in front of the carrier, you can deploy full flaps 3-4 seconds AFTER you have left the deck and raised gear, your higher speed will allow the flaps to boost you gently over the cruiser.  Dont pull back on the stick, just extend flaps and youll rise up rapidly.  Sometimes i even have to push forwards to keep from buffeting.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Spikes on August 07, 2008, 12:44:29 PM
Or you could back up and use no flaps :P
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: whiteman on August 07, 2008, 12:55:28 PM
Or you could back up and use no flaps :P

My luck my hand slips, hits the wrong button and i fall off the back of the ship.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: Vudak on August 07, 2008, 01:43:15 PM

Hold brakes till full WEP spinup...
Wait till I pass the front turret..
tap 2 notches flaps
retract gear immediately off the end of the deck
plane usually falls 10-20 feet but i never tap the water.


Agreed, especially on the bolded part.  You can start dumping flaps at that stage, and you will drop a bit off the CV, but just be prepared for it and you will be fine.
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: DustyR on August 08, 2008, 08:43:54 AM
Using auto takeoff works off the carrier unless you are using a longer wingspan AC/ie P-38 etc.  :noid  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: lambo31 on August 08, 2008, 11:54:44 AM
My luck my hand slips, hits the wrong button and i fall off the back of the ship.

 There used to be a bug that if you backed up on the carrier with your tailhook down it would sling you off the back of the cv. It might still do it but I haven't made the mistake of doing it in a while.


 Lambo
Title: Re: Carrier takeoffs
Post by: mtnman on August 08, 2008, 04:02:43 PM
Just gotta say-

I find it a tad bit humerous that in the Help and Training section, when someone asks for advice on takeoffs (a basic part of flight), an autopilot feature (Auto Takeoff) is recommended...

My 2 cents... (Which I'd wager is worth far less than it was when the saying originated...)

MtnMan

I remember back in the dark ages when I had trouble recovering from spins someone told me to hit Auto-level.  Did it work?  Maybe.  Did it teach me to fly/recover on my own?  Nope.