Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Jekyll on December 17, 2000, 05:27:00 AM
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Here's the situation. Attacking A18 in my trusty Mustang when I get engaged by a high C-Hog. A few reversals equalises e state, and a luck snapshot removes his right wingtip.
Now, we're at about 1000 feet alt at this stage, so he puts the nose down and heads NorthEast out into the boonies, away from all other bases.
'No prob', thinks I. I'm in a Stang, he's in a Hog with 1 1/2 wings. Surely this cannot take too long (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Well, I chased him for nearly 50 miles flat out on the deck, WEP roaring in my ears, and he was actually gaining ground on me. The chase started with me about 1000yds back, and by the time I gave up the chase he had increased his lead to 2500 yds.
So two questions here ...
1. What was the official top speed of the C Hog on the deck?
2. How the %^$%# can a wing-damaged Hog outrun a Mustang? Surely there must be a drag penalty from his out-of-trim condition?
Yup, AH sure has realistic FM's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hi Jekyll,
dont worry, probably you have met a new LF-F4U with clipped wing(s), optimized for low-level flying (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
BTW, the P-38L is very fast with half a wing as well.
(http://web.tiscalinet.it/gatt/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 12-17-2000).]
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Hmmm, maybe that trusty Pony didn’t forget all those flirts with A-5 and P 38 when they were uber ? Just wondering (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Sounds like the FM/DM just reduces the area of the damaged wing -> a reduction in drag, instead of the increase you would expect from a wing that has been cut in half by gunfire - torn metal, exposed spars, etc would add heaps of drag methinks...
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I think you're right juzz. It's as though each part of the airframe has its own individual drag component.
Remove the airframe part and you remove that portion of drag as well.
Boy, I'd love to see what speed a F4U-C could get up to with BOTH wingtips removed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW glunz ... check my tour stats from Beta, then quit your infantile ragging. I always wonder about a guy who has to close his account then come back as someone else (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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=357th Pony Express=
Aces High Training Corps
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Blasphemers didnt you read the AH bible?
To enlighten you here it is:
Chapter 1 verse 1
Thou shalt not find anything wrong with chog, for thee is not expert on its tremendous historical performance and super guns. Chog is the clear favorite the AH gods, and is thus under their eternal care and protection. The gods shall not in any way place doubt on chog but only upon its detractors. so on and so forth
Anyway I doubt your "whine" will get anywhere unless you provide exacting historical evidence of chog speed tests with half 1 wing gone at all altitudes, temeparatures, humidity, amount of rocket stubs fitted to it, ammo, fuel, all the above of must course be certified accurate by out holy BBS Triumverate of all knowing aviation experts, to even have a chance of being looked at by the AH gods. Plus dont forget the magic all chog BS curing excuse
of net lag, then youve got a shot, maybe.
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Jez, not only should there be more drag from exposed wing framing and torn metal, he musta been yawing like mad to stop from spinning around - thats gotta produce a sh*tload of drag.
PS - this aint a chog bash (as much as i hate them), its an FM issue.
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Had a 1/2 winged F4u outrun my jug on the deck last night too.
mebbe it should i dunno..
AKskurj
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Man that is weird. Next time I lose half a wing I will definitely do a level speed check if possible.
IMHO drag should go up. I'm sure there were some cases in real life where damage reduced the drag of an aircraft, but the game should punish you for losing part of your wing.
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Is it possible that the loss of 1/2 of a wing means that both induced and parasitic drag are reduced? I've noticed an apparent benefit to acceleration when 1/2 a wing is missing. Wing breaks here must be very clean with no bits of hanging skin or internal structure.
MiG
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Overall drag ought to go up, not only due to the yaw and control deflection, but because that remaining stub of a wing has to produce the same lift as the full wing, meaning the stub is producing much more induced drag. The parasitic drag should go down a bit, but that would be overshadowed by the increase in drag due to the yaw and control deflection. In addition, the loss of the wing portion would significantly alter the wing's efficiency. A stubby wing without a smooth wingtip can see significant loss in efficiency. For an example, think about why gliders have long thin wings. If they were designed without shaped wingtips and shortened very much, they would be much less efficient. Less efficient means more induced drag for any given amount of lift, across a less optimum speed range.
It also makes sense that the damaged plane ought to have severe controllability problems at very high speeds, and a reduction in the structural damage speed limits after sustaining combat damage would make a lot of sense. Sustained full aileron deflection at 400+ knots could cause wing deformation for example.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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you all forget were talking about the all hallowed and holy chog id say there is 0% chance hitech-creations will fix this on their beloved chog
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Hehehe you really hate Big Blue eh....she is real purty tho.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Blah, blah, blah blah blah
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Nothing to fix. It ain't broke.
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I have RTB with half a wing many times. Even gotten a few kills with it. But I have never been able to maintain a speed of more than 250mph for very long because of the rudder needed to keep her straight. Just to much drag.
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The Chog has single handedly RUINED the historical reputation of the Corsair.
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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And the AH P51D has done the same to the historic reputation of the P51...its a joke!
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F4UDOA I think you are lying. Ive seen films where a 1 wing chog outruns a 109G2 for a good 5 minutes. I know you hate all german planes but I know even you will have to admit that the G2 can go a bit faster than 250mph. I had 1 wing chogs outrun me when I was flying the dweeb niki. When I was flying the Dweeb chog I had 3 or 4 missions where I got abuot 4 kills even after I lost my wing. All of you who argue that chog 1 wing perfomance is accurate are simply full of toejam and full of arrogance because you know hitech will never let your beloved chogs be slighted in any way whatsoever.
thanks GRUNHERZ
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If it happens as often as you say..shouldn't be too hard to get film. Then HT will take a look I'm sure.
bowser
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Anyone know for absolutely 100% sure that the graphic model and the damage model correlate exactly?
That a graphic showing 1/2 a wing means the damage model is applying that exact performance penalty?
Is it possible that the graphic modeling is more generic than the damage model? Less sophisticated, if you will?
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Toad, they know it well. And its enuff to fly with half a wing to understand that the FM needs a tweak. I dont think there is a mismatching between the graphics and the damage model. Think about a single half-elevator missing. It is a very small piece of a/c missing but you feel it. But I can be wrong.
FW's fly well with two half wings missing, they can even land. You can turn *without* ailerons using the induced roll of the rudder (still there is something that puzzles me: if you have half-wings how can induced roll work so well?). BTW, I actually thanked on channel 1 the bandit that took me my second half-wing out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
F4U's fly with half a wing (dunno with two), they shoot down other guys and sometimes outrun opponents.
P38's fly with half a wing and outrun opponents, even at low level (it happened to me some days ago). I couldnt catch him with my C.205V.
Probably HTC is buzy elsewhere (see 1.05) and probably such modifications to the FM are not so easy. Lets hope.
Eheh, when you see a half-winger spraying bullets around, shoot him down and then gun his brain out when hes hanging on his chute. Same thing for those half-B17s spinning down in flames and still able to spray 0.50 arounds hoping to get a kill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 12-20-2000).]
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No mismatch in this case Toad. I found out who the Hog driver was and queried him on private.
Yes, he only had half a wing on his right hand side.
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Grunhurz,
Dude, I'm not lying. I can't get a F4U with a half wing to maintain more than 250IAS without diving. There is just to much rudder. If someone else can that's great, film it and post it. I would be more than happy to meet you in the SEA to try and test it.
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F4UDOA
I was fighting near A23 a couple of nights ago, in a D25 i think (or d30) anyways CavemanJ(hog)(not 100% sure it was CJ) was involved in a fight with another bishop I came to the bish's aid. In the ensuing fight the hog lost half a wing(graphically) and started streaming white smoke.
He ran for the hills at less than 200 ft, I gave chase I can't recall my fuel load at the time, tho i know i was not carryin any ordnance or dt's, he outran me through the canyons!! I broke off the chase at d1.6 or so i think. He was not racing away from me, but making small gains steadily on my FE. He augered or ditched a little while later I believe.
AKskurj
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I've noticed the EXACT same thing Jekyll. In fact, I was below a quarter of a tank of fuel remaining and this 1.5 winged Chog easily kept me from gaining.
I wonder if 1/4 less wing means 1/4 less drag??
Dunno.
-Ding
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IMO, depending on metal shreds etc... CF should be lower due to less frontal area but lift value would also drop. This should analogize to the reverse of "unloading for speed". The AC should be slower in level flight.
-- senna
Originally posted by Jekyll:
Here's the situation. Attacking A18 in my trusty Mustang when I get engaged by a high C-Hog. A few reversals equalises e state, and a luck snapshot removes his right wingtip.
Now, we're at about 1000 feet alt at this stage, so he puts the nose down and heads NorthEast out into the boonies, away from all other bases.
'No prob', thinks I. I'm in a Stang, he's in a Hog with 1 1/2 wings. Surely this cannot take too long (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Well, I chased him for nearly 50 miles flat out on the deck, WEP roaring in my ears, and he was actually gaining ground on me. The chase started with me about 1000yds back, and by the time I gave up the chase he had increased his lead to 2500 yds.
So two questions here ...
1. What was the official top speed of the C Hog on the deck?
2. How the %^$%# can a wing-damaged Hog outrun a Mustang? Surely there must be a drag penalty from his out-of-trim condition?
Yup, AH sure has realistic FM's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)