Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on December 18, 2000, 01:33:00 PM
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Right now, not many people fly it. But if it became more popular than the Chog or Niki, then we could name this game P51's High. It simply should not be in here, its too fast, it can get out of trouble anytime it wants to and its guns are more than adequate (see my 34 to 1 K/D ratio). At least the Chog can be caught and shot down, and if a person flys really smart, one can stay away from the business end of the Chog, however, nothing can be done about this Uber-Stang. It upsets gameplay. Please remove it HT, Pyro! Thanks!
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I know you're just trolling Rip, but here's my opinion anyhoo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
lephturn squad has 152 kills and has been killed 46 times in the P-51D.
eagl has 27 kills and has been killed 5 times in the P-51D.
If I recall correctly, NONE of my kills in the P-51 were made alone. If I'd flown alone, I would have died or not gotten many kills at all. A 4-ship of P-51's however, is pretty damn effective, just like a 4-ship of almost any other type of plane. It's not an uberplane, and IMHO it's about the most balanced plane in the arena. Very fast at altitude but not the fastest down low, slow to accelerate, great fuel endurance, doesn't turn too well unless flown fast, and just about the weakest guns in the arena.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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Nice try Rip you Chog loving DWEEB!!!!
Get your dirty damned paws off me you dirty damned smelly DWEEB!!!!!!!!!
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Guys, I'm serious. You can engage, and disengage the enemy at will. You cannot do this with the Hog, you must turn and fight. Therefore, if we go by the rules of Yeager, it upsets gameplay.
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Originally posted by eagl:
If I recall correctly, NONE of my kills in the P-51 were made alone. If I'd flown alone, I would have died or not gotten many kills at all.
a 4-ship of anything is damn effective!
BTW, of 34 kills, only 5 of them I was with someone, all the rest I was independant (alone). Anyone that personally knows me knows for a fact that I am an average pilot, you can check this with Beta-Tour 10, or, use the ladder for an example (An even .500 when I was active).
You see, the P51 needs to go, anytime you have a plane that can engage, and disengage the enemy at will, you have won 1/2 the battle, therefore, this upsets game play in Aces High. For an avg. pilot like me to have a K/D ratio that high definately means something is wrong with this A/C...or possibly it shouldn't be part of the game.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-18-2000).]
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Again nice try rip.
Its not the FM you dweeb, its those godamned GUNZ...whats it gonna take fer u guyz?
I am constantly amazed by the more experienced guys who swear by the damned thing. Its a joke, a disgrace Im telling you!
When I feel like being a total schmuck, a bonehead out to do nothing more then blow stuff up with frigging rediculous ease what do I grab? Hmmmm? A P51? A N1K? a G10 (god forbid)?
None Of The Above Ripsnort!!!
I GRAB A UBERDWEEBY CHOG!
Its so fediddleing rediculous with those cannon it makes AH look like a joke to the experienced user!
Love ya,
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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over my dead body...
Then by that reasoning we should remove the yak 9 and the typhoon, both can run p51s down. And while we are here, we should decide that we should all fly the same planes - say a spit V or sopwith cammel.
COME ON!
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 12-18-2000).]
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Ripsnorts evil twin Snortrip must be using his computer now.
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Milo
3./JG2
"Swager's Angels"
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Yeager, sorry, holds water as much as my theory with the P51. The P51 is clearly a better plane than the Hog. The C-Hog's guns are clearly (and historically) better than the .50 cals.)(and I might add, the same guns on the Spit, Tiffy) So, what should be banned from AH for game play issue? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW, if I want to really rack up my score, I fly a P51, if I want to get down and dirty, and not care about score, I fly a Chog.
I've tried the reverse, and best I could do was a 5 to 1 K/D ratio with the Chog...34 to 1 in the P51 is alittle more dramatic.
HT, please, ban the P51D, it upsets gameplay.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-18-2000).]
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Rip,
You are drunk with the power of those Chog dweeb inspiring cannon.
No other plane has generated as much hatred and virulent ill will as the Chog. No other plane has come within miles of being so devisive.
Your call for deleting this plane or that plane only furthers my initial contention that Pyro screwed up YEAH BIGTIME by letting HiTech talk him into visiting this HORRID BEAST upon the world simply for HiTechs own devilish pursuits.
Now go CLEANSE yourself!
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
PS Its a slow day Rip, dont challenge me to multiple posts....I will win.
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Hehehe!
Tell me this, why is it that only the G10 drivers and the P51 drivers are the only ones that complain about the C-Hog on a continual basis. I think even you know the answer to that one, Yeager.
If you remember in V1.02, I too complained about the C-Hog's hispanos. Pyro fixed them. I can now put 100 rounds into the body of a B26 and it flys away blissfully, however, if I focus that gunnery to the wings, 10 rounds should do it, historically so I might add. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Edit:Oh, you have to stop by sometime when you're around the south sound, and I will show you a real .50 cal bullet and a 20mm cannon shell, I think it will convince you once you hold these two shells in your hand why the cannons of hispanos are so deadly.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-18-2000).]
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I fly the 51 all the time, and it is not an easy plane to get kills with, you have to be patent and know what your fighting to win with it at all, if ya ban the 51 then ya better ban the 2nd and third fasted planes too...well for rips sake why dont ya just ban anyting that could catch the C-hog, thats the obvious motive. The 51 is awsome, but hard to fly if your not good at it, you cant just have some kinda turning humpfest in the sky with it, its one of the few games that take real skill to fly properly, its an Energy fighter so naturally its fast and it does it job well. Hell i guess we better ban the panzer too since it is too good at killing ground vehicles. The 51 does what it was designed for and thats it, and if its ruining gameplay so bad how come the skys are not filled with them...like it is Nik's, spits......CHOGS.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Tell me this, why is it that only the G10 drivers and the P51 drivers are the only ones that complain about the C-Hog on a continual basis
Ripsnort,I hope this is a joke or tongue in cheek comment, otherwise I have to say that this affirmation is BS.
I remember the times on Jg2, when half the squad was completely against that mosnter. I recall at least two squaddies leaving AH because the Chog. True is that both are back again, but that doesnt change a thing.
C205 pilots,Fw190 pilots, P51 pilots, 109 Pilots, EVEN F4U1-C PILOTS WHO I HAVE TALKED IN PRIVATE have claimed for the erasing of that abomination, or/and a SERIOUS revision of the Hispano damage model.
The simple plane inclusion in AH is an abomination, but the proton torpedoes it (and the spit and P38) carries are simply too much.
Tonight I had a couple more of fights with one-ping fatal damage hispano hits. One of them at quite long range ,while the other at medium range...while I was seeing unnefective Mauser close range hits all night long.
Its bad enough to have such a aberration damage model as the hispano has in AH. But to have a 200 built-only plane that saw very limited service (and in the few actions they took part, some of them were innefective due jamming hispanos) with 4 of those megaplasma cannons is simply too much.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-18-2000).]
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Typhoon will chase a 51 down ,after 200 miles of course.
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Yes, carl is right, a tiffe can pace a 51 at 8000 and below that it can catch it.
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P-51 is way overmodeled. It simply unbalances the game and should be removed in the next version.
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Originally posted by Yeager:
No other plane has generated as much hatred and virulent ill will as the Chog. No other plane has come within miles of being so devisive.
Wait til the George gets that extra 200-someodd rounds of ammo in 1.05
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Gee.. whats wrong with P-51s, if you're not in early war plane?
I've had problems with P-51Dweebs only if I've flown C.202 sort of plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
problems = takes longer to get the dweeb down, unless this 'fair' fuel multiplier runs me outta fuel - landing
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how much do 200 20mm round weigh?
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Eliminate all vehicles and aircraft except for the C-47 and M-3.
After that we'll all be even.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Rip. Wait til they do that, move the MG ammo to the center of the cone thing. Can you say UFO-D.
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Too much whining is BS.
Denigrating the game is BS.
Focusing only on Hispanos is BS.
Saying that AH is only Hispanos and Nikis is BS.
But the biggest BS is that some players cannot even honestly admit that there is something wrong with Hispanos ... ehehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif), ehm ...
BTW, I even fly the Spitfire IX sometimes, just to try 500-600yds high-deflection shots. Its amazing and anti-depressant, try it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by gatt:
But the biggest BS is that some players cannot even honestly admit that there is something wrong with Hispanos ... ehehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif), ehm ...
BTW, I even fly the Spitfire IX sometimes, just to try 500-600yds high-deflection shots. Its amazing and anti-depressant, try it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yesterday I got my BMW engine trashed by a single Hispano round from a spit, at 800 yards. The guy was spraying like mad while hanging on propeller, I was doing a perfect hammerhead and had roped him OK. Single ping and the engine stopped at once.
Yes, I said single ping. I asked in private to the guy on the spit and he admited he had seen just one ping.
Just a couple of minutes before I had achieved 4-5 mauser pings on his left wing.
He told me he had no damage. At all.
This is not (by far) the first time something like that happens to me in the Fw190. The incredible difference of effects between the Mauser and Hispanos is ridiculous. Of course a 1 second burst of mausers will kill an enemy plane. But a SINGLE ping of Hispano , at long ranges has a quite high probability of causing fatal damage.
Hispano Proton Torpedoes suck. And when you compare them with the Mausers ,suck even more.
I think is plain enough of this roadkill.
I feel free to say this in this board as I have never seen the guy I am talking about in the forums.
HTC, please, this is getting VERY old.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-19-2000).]
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Originally posted by RAM:
Just a couple of minutes before I had achieved 4-5 mauser pings on his left wing.
He told me he had no damage. At all.
You should of seen my face when Zeke got through my gun hits twice and still not blowing up into pieces (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
4x20mm against zeke and I counted first at least 5-6 hits at minimum, then I managed to get nose fixed at him from very close range (within 150 yards, coming right in) and shot at his left wing for 4-5 more hits, I looked behind and thought that how hes still flying - when he died soon after that, he died by bullets from another guys guns, although i got the credits.
Mereallythinks that over 10 shots of 20mm HE within 250 yards should do the trick against zeke, which of at least 5 hits were on one wing.
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LW are always so unlucky (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I've heard 4/5 hispano hit on my Yak last night when I was extending (screaming like a little ... well that's another story (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) from a CHog and guess what ? no part damaged !
I've never got the ONE PING DEATHtm in about 6 month in AH (except in AK when kirin blasted my typhoon with shell and ramed her (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
I believe it's either an urban legend or a error of perception due to lag.
btw Fishu don't you thing that your shell just pass through this paper plane ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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You get rid of the P-51 and what will there be to chase down the chog gremlins.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I fly it and I love it even though i only get about 3to1KR but i could easyly get into a NIK or spit and go round and round and make it 10to1, but alas i get motion sick (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Its bad enough to have such a aberration damage model as the hispano has in AH. But to have a 200 built-only plane that saw very limited service (and in the few actions they took part, some of them were innefective due jamming hispanos) with 4 of those megaplasma cannons is simply too much.
*Yawn* Haven't you come up with anything new yet RAM ?
Show me documentation that the F4U-1C was considered ineffective because of jamming problems. I bet you can't find it. Mostly because I have documentation that says that the Navy was VERY happy with the Hispano, and they couldn't get enough of them.
This is not (by far) the first time something like that happens to me in the Fw190. The incredible difference of effects between the Mauser and Hispanos is ridiculous. Of course a 1 second burst of mausers will kill an enemy plane. But a SINGLE ping of Hispano , at long ranges has a quite high probability of causing fatal damage.
Hispano Proton Torpedoes suck. And when you compare them with the Mausers ,suck even more.
HTC, please, this is getting VERY old.
Then Quit ! Oh wait... you done that about 6 times already. But each time you come back within the week.
And now your too scared to even fly under your own name. Be a man. If your going to spout consistent misinformation and pure crap (which you feel is your right), at least be man enough to stand up and take whatever repercussions it causes. Not hiding and skulking around under some other assumed name.
The Mauser (and ShVak's) are plenty deadly if you get them on target. No, they're not as accurate at range as the Hispanos. But thats the way it should be.
Do I like the F4U-1C? Hell no. Personally I'm sick of seeing so many of them every damn flight.
But continuously whinning about them, in the manner you do, doesn't help the matter one bit.
In fact, if anything, it confuses the issue so much that legitamate concerns are hidden behind all that whinning.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Originally posted by straffo:
btw Fishu don't you thing that your shell just pass through this paper plane ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Are you saying that those famous hyper sensitive HE rounds goes through? :I
Now... are those darn guns with AP or HE..
(tanks = HE, planes = AP and with hispanos vice-versa?)
I remember when I had one shot kills in CHog from beyond 750 yards couple of times in short testings.. (but if we start talking about 1 hit kills with LW's.... with 30mm excluded of course.. i cant remember)
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Originally posted by RAM:
Its bad enough to have such a aberration damage model as the hispano has in AH. But to have a 200 built-only plane that saw very limited service (and in the few actions they took part, some of them were innefective due jamming hispanos) with 4 of those megaplasma cannons is simply too much.
[/b]
You know, the Typhoons are also equipped with 4x20mm Hispanos. Their production run was also substantially higher than that of the F4U-1C (3,330 built in all), and despite numerous design defects such as a weak tail, poor high altitude performance, and an early propensity toward random, catastrophic engine failure... I haven't noticed any mention that jamming Hispanos reduced their effectiveness. In fact, Typhoons seemed to be quite successful with the 4x20mm armament.
Here's a nifty link with some nice info:
http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/typhoon.htm (http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/typhoon.htm)
-- Todd/DMF
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All planes are easy meat from ded six.
Geesh guys, stay away from the business end of any lead projectile. What's so hard about that?
Hispano's usually don't hurt me if I'm behind the guy...hehe. Then again, MG's and Hispano's kill me all the same when I let them get on my six.
And its not the (insert here, niki, chog, hispano, G-10, Warp-roll 190, C47) that creates quake like behavior. Its that little undermodeled person that sits behind each of our monitors that is responsible for the quake behavior in the arena. So just fly your way and have fun.
Cobra
(Looking around for that dog to kick, because how bad HTC is for creating a game that sucks up alot of my spare time flying in it and reading the board...hehe)
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vermillion why are sick of seeing so many chogs? why are there so many chogs? why are there so many more chogs since 104? why do you dislike chogs? why are chog hispanos seemingly more effective than same guns on typhoon? why can chogs hit me out to 900 when ive never been been hit by spits or typhoons out to that range?
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Man some of you guys are dense.
The Chog IS an abomination!
(utterly loathsome, detestable for those of you in RioLinde).
It is THE Pandoras box.
Adding it to the plane set in AcesHigh, without restriction (perk) or RPS was irrisponsible to gameplay.
Sorry Pyro, your brilliant but even Einstein
made tracks in his undies.
Yeager
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Adding it to the plane set in AcesHigh, without restriction (perk) or RPS was irrisponsible to gameplay.
This from Yeager who is 277 and 175 since tour 1? What is your agenda? Obviously you have no problem killing it. I am with Cobra. It is the pilot. I am a mediocre pilot at best and I get my arse handed to me on a regular basis when I fly the C Corsair. Yeager, you have done it numerous times as you are well aware (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now the typhoon is another matter all together (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). I actually have a poistive k/d in that.
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Comeon, Rip,
It's easy kill in a Yak - wait tll p51 runs out of WEP and u got it.
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
Show me documentation that the F4U-1C was considered ineffective because of jamming problems. I bet you can't find it. Mostly because I have documentation that says that the Navy was VERY happy with the Hispano, and they couldn't get enough of them.
Scanner not working well, but I suggest you to read Lt. Joe D. Robins, pilot of the VBF-8, and the F4U1-C in the book "corsair aces of WWII". I have the book translated into spanish, but I simply refuse to come here and write (again) what we all know: that in 25-April 1945 the hispanos on the Chog still were freezing over 15000 feet, and that the gun reliability was simply abysmal.
Then Quit ! Oh wait... you done that about 6 times already. But each time you come back within the week.
And now your too scared to even fly under your own name. Be a man. If your going to spout consistent misinformation and pure crap (which you feel is your right), at least be man enough to stand up and take whatever repercussions it causes. Not hiding and skulking around under some other assumed name.
Never thought I'd say this, verm. But you are an idiot, plain and simple. I left AH ONCE -ONE time-, for nearly a month. And I came under a new handle. You all placed bets on that RAM would last 20 minutes in MA without yelling. Well you missed. You missed by A LOT.
I dont have the need to fly under my ex-handle. First of all because I know of the "hunting groups" formed on me in hte MA, second because I pay for having fun, and there is enough annoying things in the MA to have to face a bunch of nazi guys that can't stand someone who wont allow them to shut him up.
Lastly, if you **REALLY** think that the hispanos were SO magnificent guns that allowed to fire 200 rpg non-stop without melting the breech, nor jamming, nor stopping the plane dead in the air, then explain me why the standard 20mm gun after the war was based on a german desing and not the SUperDuperHispano one.
The Mauser (and ShVak's) are plenty deadly if you get them on target. No, they're not as accurate at range as the Hispanos. But thats the way it should be.
Oh yea, and 50 cals are plenty deadly if you put a 2 second burst on target. Go to hell, Verm, we are talking about 1-2 ping FATAL DAMAGE here.
But continuously whinning about them, in the manner you do, doesn't help the matter one bit.
Of course. What should I do?. See how one ping kills repeatedly my engine and shut up? whatever.
Verm, I really thought you had some more decency. Anyone who resorts to personal attacks to refute and discredite (sp?) someone's opinions is a nazi in my book.
I have nothing more to say to you.
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Fact is: in WWII Hispanos were known for:
1-Jamming
2-Overheating in sustained bursts
3-Freezing over 15000 feet
and for:
1-high muzzle vel.
2-Heavy projectile with good ballistics.
I simply think that the two latter things are "TOO" well represented in AH, while the 3 former ARE NOT EVEN SHOWN HERE.
So, get rid of the F4U1-c or give us a REALISTIC hispano, please.
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Well its quite obvious the P-51 is no problem seeing as how everybody is squeaking about the C-hog now, guess the 51 aint so bad after all eh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ram, you do realize that one 'ping' on your FE can represent betwen 5-10 bullets , don't you?
Tell that to the B26 that flew away blissfully after I got a full deflection shot into his fuselage with 100 rounds of Hispano 20mm.
And they already toned down the guns in V1.03. I believe you whiners are just trying to eliminate every A/C that is deemed a threat to your precious ride. Plain and simple.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-19-2000).]
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Geesh guys, stay away from the business end of any lead projectile. What's so hard about that?
The problem with this is a chog pilot if he can get his nose anywhere near you and spray has a VERY good chance of killing the plane. And most of the Chog pilots will do exactly that. They will pull hard and kill E to get just within the 1k range to do it. Or they will pull straight up on a plane with a 5-10k alt advantage and risk stalling just to spray those hispanos at the plane because they know that they have an excellent chance of a one ping kill.
Now granted I'm one of those 51 pilots.. and I'm actually a horrible flyer, but even I can tell you there is something wrong with the hispanos.
Bane
13th TAS
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So, bane, put your money where your mouth is. Hearsay doesn't do squat, facts and data do.
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This 1 ping kill you guys are speaking of is BS. You don't hear nor see all the hits! Ain't gonna happen. Been this way in these games a long time and most of ya know it. Think back, how many times have you been shot down by a buff's turbolasers and only heard 1 ping? Alot, but you know, intellectually, that 1 hit from a .50 ain't gonna blow you up, so you live with it.
I do see now why I don't get many kills in the hog. Based on Bane's post, I've been flying it wrong, lol.
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Lets put this clear. each time I get shot down in that way (few pings or even single ping), I go private and ask the guy who shot me down.
Yesterday I asked both guys in private. Both had seen only one ping in their FE.
Is true that a couple of times I had heard only a ping the guy asked answered he had got a lot of them. A couple of times.
But most times I hear few pings, they are few pings. I always take care to ask it in private. I will start taking screenshots of the questions and asnwers so you can see it.
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Like a bunch of drug addicts you Chog abusers!
Get a life and fly something sporting!
Gameboys! Jeepers!
Got film? Hehehe
Ripsnort you are my QCD: Queen Chog Dweeb!
LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 12-19-2000).]
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hehe
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So, bane, put your money where your mouth is. Hearsay doesn't do squat, facts and data do.
Well I can't put data or whatever you'd like other than films because I'm not an avid wwII history buff with books and books on planes their flight dynamics, their gun ballistics, what they should be able to do what they shouldn't be able to do.
all I know is I fly the same way against just about every plane in the arena and I do pretty well with the exception of the Chog. If you like check my stats against all the planes in tour 10. You will find that I have a 1:1 k/d ratio against almost every plane with the odd exception of maybe a .8/1 here and there but most are very close to each other. The one exception is my k/d against the chog which is 1/2 or so. Why is this?
I use the engage and disengage tactics you use so why the huge difference?
Bane
[This message has been edited by BaneX (edited 12-19-2000).]
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See what single-minded perception can do Yeager? I fly the D hog in ATA, and the Chog in ATG. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
BTW, when in a furball, I always go for "Big Blues" first since they are the easiest to shoot down. Only gurly men have a problem with them. Not me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-19-2000).]
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Rip,
The Chog in AcesHigh is equivalent to Bill Clinton in the White House.
Get my drift (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yeager
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Originally posted by Apache:
This 1 ping kill you guys are speaking of is BS. You don't hear nor see all the hits! Ain't gonna happen. Been this way in these games a long time and most of ya know it. Think back, how many times have you been shot down by a buff's turbolasers and only heard 1 ping? Alot, but you know, intellectually, that 1 hit from a .50 ain't gonna blow you up, so you live with it.
I do see now why I don't get many kills in the hog. Based on Bane's post, I've been flying it wrong, lol.
If I see that I made one hit on a fresh unhit target, which then drops his wing or stabilizer.... is that then 1 hit or more than one hit?
Hearing pings is whole lot different thing, but I can't say the same about seeing your shots get enemy down with 1 or 2 hits.
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I think all the planes are just fine. We don't need any changes and certainly don't need 1.05.
Thank you
Sour
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That's strange, I thought that I read where pings and sprites were 1/1.......must be confusing my games now.
What was this thread about anyway?
Fury
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The threads dead guys, I made my point. Go home now and get used the Chog. Its here to stay, no changes are coming other than they'll fix the dispertion which will make it even a more deadly opponent, and if you don't like it, grab one and shoot down the SOB who just shot you down in it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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This thread is as dead as AH.
The Chog will forever in my mind be the ride of the wicked, the damned, the pre dead.
Forever the dweebmaker.
Ride rip! ride it!
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
The threads dead guys, I made my point. Go home now and get used the Chog. Its here to stay, no changes are coming other than they'll fix the dispertion which will make it even a more deadly opponent, and if you don't like it, grab one and shoot down the SOB who just shot you down in it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ummmm...I don't fly no friggin' DWEEB Chog! And I don't like your assumption, nor your call for people to go out and shoot me down.
I fly the Niki (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Now where's my extra ammo?!?
SOB
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I shot one (F4U-1C) down, using the ubėr-dweeb-hispano cannons that my Spitfire MkVb comes equipped with (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif), last night.
Only took 4 rounds in a high deflection, short ranged shot to blow its tail off.
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 12-19-2000).]
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Ram, you need to rethink your tactics if you are flying slowly enough to perform a hammerhead in range of an enemy fighter with its guns pointed at you.
Rip, are you hoping to have the P-51 replaced with another airplane? Say... the P-61?
The one way to really resolve all of this is to have every fighter perform exactly the same regardless of what it looks like. That might make it fair but probably not too much fun. Wouldn't be much of a sim either.
MiG
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Ripsnort
The only way a P-51 can engage and disengage at will is if it has superior E before the engagement.
Your K/D in the P-51 basically shows one thing.... You have all day to fly around grabbing and waiting for the un-suspecting pilot to shoot. Just like you have all day to sit around reading and posting in these forums.
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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
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rofl
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You mean I'm flying it like the TAS does?!? OMG!!! Actually, most all my kills are under 20k, and I always maintain E, whether in a Pony or F4U. Only a fool would bleed his E in a pony.
In regards to my sitting on this board all day: Read this:
This is this cat
This is is cat
This is how cat
This is to cat
This is keep cat
This is a cat
This is handsomehunk cat
This is busy cat
This is for cat
This is forty cat
This is seconds cat
Now go back and read the THIRD word in each line from the top
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-19-2000).]
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Originally posted by MiG Eater:
Ram, you need to rethink your tactics if you are flying slowly enough to perform a hammerhead in range of an enemy fighter with its guns pointed at you.
MIG, is called to rope the guy, you know. I am faster and with more E. He is in my tail. I zoom and then go vertical. The bad boy is going to cut some angles.
Still the guy stalled 800 yards under me. That is 2400 feet under me. That means taht I did the perfect rope, for when I had completed the hammer I'd have him stalled and ready to be butchered.
But one (1) (O-N-E) hispano round at 800 yards from a stalling plane changed the outcome of a perfectly executed move.
Its outrageous.
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Rip you're friggin cracking me up. Oh I see 2 week charlie is back.
And GOD said let AH be free to all!!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 12-19-2000).]
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I keep reading about these magical one hit kills from d900 or so -- not only in this thread, but in a bunch of threads all over these boards. I sure wish someone would post several films of this, to show that it does indeed happen all the time. I think it would be pretty neat to see.
Fury
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MY GODS!!!!
What is with this sudden burst of F4U-1C (and P-51) whinning?
What did I miss?
Sisu
-Karnak
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Today I got my bellybutton handed to me by whels1 me P51 he C-Hog. I know whels1 is damned capable but the things he did with that FM were just too much for me.
I filmed it and looked at it and thought the vertical work was simply too much to purchase with any sort of faith. Its just reached a point where I dont trust the FMs on some of these planes any more.
Not a slam Whels, fantastic work. Do the lords work with the tools provided but I really think we have way too much energy surviving some of these high G manoevers!
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 12-19-2000).]
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Hehe, Rip, you'll not succeed in shifting the whine from the C-Hog to the Pony (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I like Ponies and skilled Pony drivers.
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About the only ACM i do is rope a dope.. I rope chogs, 51's, 109's, spits, N1K's u name it. I'd say roughly 9 of 10 attempts I am successful in stalling out my opponent while managing to live to be able to drop on him (my aim sux so unfortunately only about 1 in 5 ropes actually gets the kill)
I heard on my FE 4-5 pings tonight from a chog (i was in dhog) from about 800 yrds (on my FE) all he did was takeoff 1 elevator. LoL Booky (the chog pilot) and i had a great fight IMO (he likely donesn't agree) it lasted 5 mins plus with myself maintaining the advantage and eventually winning. The best part was it was a solid 1 v 1 with no raiders. Anyways back to my point... In all my ropin attempts I see ALOT of tracers coming at me, which 95% of the time miss. If the range on my FE drops below 800 on my FE when i am still pointy side up I worry. Otherwise I know i am relatively safe. I just don't die from 1 ping kills.
And just to dispell any hog whining, I Roped roper in his chog, in a 47d30 at medium alt coupla days ago as well. Chog, Dhog = FM fine, guns = fine IMO
I think the chog issue is possibly this... with 900 rounds a chog can spray at ya, and a 20 mm spray is gonna be more effective at 800 yrds than a .50. Hell i spray with 50's all the time, get hits too, If i had 3400 rounds of 20mm I'd get a helluva lot more kills due to my spray and pray tactics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKskurj
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Bok bok bok (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I like killing runstangs when I can catch them.
-- senna
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Right now, not many people fly it. But if it became more popular than the Chog or Niki, then we could name this game P51's High. It simply should not be in here, its too fast, it can get out of trouble anytime it wants to and its guns are more than adequate (see my 34 to 1 K/D ratio). At least the Chog can be caught and shot down, and if a person flys really smart, one can stay away from the business end of the Chog, however, nothing can be done about this Uber-Stang. It upsets gameplay. Please remove it HT, Pyro! Thanks!
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heh, take away the CHOG and then you can take away the pony if you want.
You gotta know how to fly the pony to get kills in it.
Give an 8 year old kid the controls of a CHOG and he gets kills. See my previous threads on this, its a true story.
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Well there were only 200 produced during wa wa 2. Thats not very much in comparison to what we tend to see online in AH. To be honest, I've adapted to this new Chog rich environment (after some time of course). But the air could be more diverse in AC types and not only the types we have now but future types we dont have yet. Would b more fun to see a D9's potential against a spits rather than against armies of chogs. The difference is like tag team futball and real football (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-- senna
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
You mean I'm flying it like the TAS does?!? OMG!!! Actually, most all my kills are under 20k, and I always maintain E, whether in a Pony or F4U. Only a fool would bleed his E in a pony.
Im a fool! I bleed E all the time, whoohooo!! HEE HEE! HA HA! How else can I turn inside a spit, yak or Nik to keel em! TA HA! TEE HEE! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
DINGY IS A FOOL! DINGY IS A FOOL!! <hops around>
-Ding
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Originally posted by RAM:
Fact is: in WWII Hispanos were known for:
1-Jamming
2-Overheating in sustained bursts
3-Freezing over 15000 feet
and for:
1-high muzzle vel.
2-Heavy projectile with good ballistics.
I simply think that the two latter things are "TOO" well represented in AH, while the 3 former ARE NOT EVEN SHOWN HERE.
Morane Saulnier 406's of the Finnish Air Force were originally fitted with a Hispano-Suiza 20mm cannon, shooting through the propellor spinner. I believe it is the exact same hispano cannon as in AH. The finns found the cannon to be completely pathetic (only 60 round magazine, but cannon usually jammed after 2-3 shots) and replaced it with a 50cal browning, russian 12.7mm berezina mg or finnish 12.7mm LKK mg. The resulting combat effectiveness was better. In the later stages of the war the Moranes were fitted with 20mm mauser cannons (same as in 109 G) which really boosted their firepower.
And this I have read from a dozen books.
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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The British had a lot of early problems with unreliable firing with the Hispano, and solved them by shortening the chamber (by 2mm) to make sure that the firing pin would strike the primer with sufficient force, and urged the USA to do the same (the British wanted complete standardisation between both countries' production). The Americans, after testing the guns in April 1942, decided not to bother.
However, concern was expressed by US ammo manufacturers that the misfires which kept occurring were the gun's fault, not theirs, so further US tests were held between June 1942 and January 1943. The results of the tests
were...a recommendation to shorten the chamber! (but not as short as in the British guns). Various other detailed changes were made, following which some guns were sent over to the UK for testing in July and August 1943 and
showed themselves to be as good as British production. Only at this point were US guns accepted by the British as "acceptable for service use".
The problem was that the USA had already made 56,410 guns (no less). These guns effectively had to be remanufactured to the new standard. In February 1944 all AN-M2 production stopped. At that time there were still 35,955 long-chamber guns in store, classified as "unserviceable". Most were later converted to M3s.
Chinn goes on to give details of the operational performance of the AN-M2. The USN mounted some 90% of these guns, the USAAF making very little use of them. Incidentally, the M1 version was for engine mounting and not used in service, although several hundred were made (also incidentally, for some reason US production of the 60-round drum feed carried on into 1944 and nearly 30,000 were made).
First use by the USN was in the SB-2C when a test batch was sent out in 1943 and evaluated in combat, the first action being in March 1944. Factory representatives accompanied the cannon to the front. To quote Chinn; "These expert technicians sent back voluminous reports that explained the
malfunctions that did occur were due to one of three things; failure of the feeder, bad ammunition and improper maintenance. Their zeal in clearing the gun itself in every instance casts doubt upon the validity of the reports."
Some 5,800 USN planes were fitted with 11,600 guns. The SB-2C and SB-W aircraft were the principal planes carrying this weapon into combat, along with a very limited number of F4U-1Cs. It was therefore hardly ever used by fighters and shot down very few aircraft.
Chinn says; "With the mounting of the 20mm cannon in Navy planes a series of malfunctions began that could not be properly corrected at the time as manufacture was at the peak of production...the most serious problem was the
oversize chamber. There still remained considerable variance in dimensions between the chambers of the British and US cannon...". A curious explanation for the poor standards of manufacture which plagued the AN-M2 was that, being over .60" (15mm) calibre, it was considered to be an
artillery weapon rather than a small arm. It was therefore built to artillery manufacturing tolerances, which were not tight enough for this weapon. As a "quick fix", the USN liberally coated the ammunition with a heavy lubricant (which the British specifically banned from their Hispanos).
Some 32,000 M3s had also been delivered by the end of the war and these suffered the same problems as the AN-M2.
After the end of the war, all of the problems were analysed and a development programme was put in hand to correct them, work being successfully carried out over the next few years. In conclusion, Chinn says; "Nothing was basically wrong with the weapon. Its wartime performance, good or bad, was the result of having being bought in desperation, put into mass production without first having been adequately proved, and then modified regularly to meet a future commitment before the previous model had been made to function reliably."
Unfortunately Chinn, a USMC officer, did not comment on the gun in USAF service. It would be interesting to know how it fared in the P-38.
On a personal note, I am well aware that when the firing pin strike is only just good enough to fire the primer, such minor details as the characteristics of the metal forming the primer cap can be very significant. The fact that the guns performed well in the UK could have been simply due to a softer or thinner primer cap material, or even that the primer protruded slightly more, in the ammunition used in the tests. Alternatively, as
its problems partly resulted from excessive manufacturing tolerances, it would have been possible to produce satisfactory guns by carefully selecting and matching components. However I'm sure that the Americans would never
consider doing something so devious and underhand to their old ally, perish the thought (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The other point concerns the need to oil the cartridges. This was never entirely dispensed with as even the Mk 16, in USN service in the 1980s as a deck gun, had a built-in cartridge oiler. Yet the British decided they didn't like this and, according to Wallace, changed the cartridge to avoid the need to oil it (this is supported by the official manual, which specifically bans oiling). The problem is, I have never been able to find out what changes were made,
and it begs all sorts of questions about the interchangeability of British v. other nations' ammunition etc.
The postwar USAF one would have been the M24, which was converted to electrical ignition. I don't have any information about problems with that.
Tony Williams
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/ (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/)
Military gun and ammunition website
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I love the CHOG after emptying half my ammo on it , it still acts like a good target.
I admire their one ping kills.
Especially their most common used tactic go straight up for a HO losing all E a manouvre i am afraid to use. Takes a lot off guts to do that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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It simply should not be in here, its too fast, it can get out of trouble anytime it wants to and its guns are more than adequate (see my 34 to 1 K/D ratio). B]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that actually how this plane performed?!?!? Bravo Zulu to HTC for an accurate representation of a P-51D. Perhaps modelling a FW-190D "Stang Killer" would satisfy the "UBERSTANGERS".....?
A P-51 is only as good as its pilots ability to evaluate his current situation & his ability to manage energy... Flown by a DWEEB, It's just dead...
BigMax "Feeling the Love!"
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i have no love for those that piss on the pony.