Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: XAKL on August 11, 2008, 01:00:38 PM
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Just a question.
I've been asking this for in the AvA forum, but it seems to get nowhere. I know we have the early, mid, and all arena, but I don't like shooting down a P-51 with my P-51. The AvA has limited plane sets and other scenarios which inhibit game play. My suggestion is this, an arena where all the planes and vehicles are available to their respectful country. Allies (Americans Brits Russians)= Rooks, Axis(Germans, Japan, Italians)= knits, Neutral Base=bish. Small hanger= only early war planes are available with all vehicles(except perked vehicle). Medium hanger= midwar planes and late warplanes (except perked) and all vehicles, Large hanger= All planes and all vehicles. Use regular map and see what happens. I haven't received much support from the Allies Vs Axis areana.
Call the Areana, simply "The War"
MUGADAI
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I think that's a great idea!
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Unbalanced plane sets. For example Axis has only Ju-88 and Ki-67 bombers, while Allies have B-17, B-24, Lancaster. If map has CV's, the situation is similar: A6M's only against the plethora of American blue planes.
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would be cool if they could make it work.
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Unbalanced plane sets. For example Axis has only Ju-88 and Ki-67 bombers, while Allies have B-17, B-24, Lancaster. If map has CV's, the situation is similar: A6M's only against the plethora of American blue planes.
There are difficulties, but it still would be interesting to see if anyone actually bothered to fly in there.
Besides, adjusting perk prices & planes might do a thing or two to help the balance problem.
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Damn, You'd see me only in 190s and 109s if that happen! it would mean no more 38s =/
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The puzzle here is what planes do the neutral country fly?
If the answer is none, then that would eliminate the idea just because you're eliminating the country and making it a two sided war.
If the answer is all, then everyone would gravitate to that country for the plane selection thus removing any hope of balance.
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Unbalanced plane sets. For example Axis has only Ju-88 and Ki-67 bombers, while Allies have B-17, B-24, Lancaster. If map has CV's, the situation is similar: A6M's only against the plethora of American blue planes.
this is true......but don't forget......it's more the plane than it is the pilot.
in my case it's irrelevent, as i suck, but i'd be somewhat willing to bet that you in an old heap of a plane could take on quite a few planes that "outclass" what you're flying.
<<S>>
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this is true......but don't forget......it's more the plane than it is the pilot.
In 1v1 doghfight: yes. But not in a "war".
Allied CV attacks base. F4U's, F6F's, Seafires, TBM'S can put a rain of ords on the town.
Axis side? A6M's, D3A's, B5N's hardly can do the same.
The defender ups heavy bombers from a rear base. The Allies can up F4U's to intercept that Ju88's. The Axis side could try to stop fast, durable and heaviily armed bombers with Zero's only.
And regardless of individual pilot skill (which usually is pretty even in larger scenarios), the Axis side can hardly mount big bombing missions shutting down several fields in succession. - Ju 88's can simply not survive as long as B17's
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It's a good thing the Ki-61 is a POS!
No thank you on this idea.
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Unbalanced plane sets. For example Axis has only Ju-88 and Ki-67 bombers, while Allies have B-17, B-24, Lancaster. If map has CV's, the situation is similar: A6M's only against the plethora of American blue planes.
That's why this would be so interesting. Don't forget that Axis have good GV's for now, and the jets. Also, Allies may have the big bombers but Axis have great interceptors. Infact, most bases captured in MA involves tight group fighter bombers flying NOE, and heavy bombers are rarely employed.
MUGADAI
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They had the axis and allied arena set strait up before and nobody used it. They have been "tweaking" it for months now looking to get it so that people will try it and enjoy it. I check it out now and then, but there just isn't enough people around. The same goes for Mid War, I'd much father fly there so I could fight something other than the "uber" rides, but it isn't that populated either.
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In 1v1 doghfight: yes. But not in a "war".
Allied CV attacks base. F4U's, F6F's, Seafires, TBM'S can put a rain of ords on the town.
Axis side? A6M's, D3A's, B5N's hardly can do the same.
The defender ups heavy bombers from a rear base. The Allies can up F4U's to intercept that Ju88's. The Axis side could try to stop fast, durable and heaviily armed bombers with Zero's only.
And regardless of individual pilot skill (which usually is pretty even in larger scenarios), the Axis side can hardly mount big bombing missions shutting down several fields in succession. - Ju 88's can simply not survive as long as B17's
maybe true, but how many bombers do you really see survive a skilled and determined attacker? regardless of what type of bomber?
me personally, i die just as easily in a b17 as i do in a ju88. :D
it may be unbalanced, but i think it could be fun too.
<<S>>
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maybe true, but how many bombers do you really see survive a skilled and determined attacker? regardless of what type of bomber?
Quite a lot.
You know what's coming now... :D
In current tour 103 for example, all fighter planes have a K/D of 2.58 vs the B-17, but 6.08 vs Ju-88. That's quite a significant difference. The type of bomber does apparently matter. ;)
And sorry for the hijack :pray
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This sounds like CT. :D
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They had the axis and allied arena set strait up before and nobody used it. They have been "tweaking" it for months now looking to get it so that people will try it and enjoy it. I check it out now and then, but there just isn't enough people around. The same goes for Mid War, I'd much father fly there so I could fight something other than the "uber" rides, but it isn't that populated either.
"Favorite Plane Syndrome" combined with "Squadron Syndrome." I've regretfully come to the conclusion that no arena that restricts plane choice will ever be as popular as an arena that doesn't. Squadron affiliation just tightens this up; there are some squadrons that are willing to fly different planes in different arenas, but it seems that most of them gravitate to whatever arena offers the favorite plane(s) of some of their members.
That said, you really don't need 200 people to have a fun arena, as AvA and MW have shown. We've tried Mugadai's idea in AvA now and again over the years; it usually ends up with Russians flying La7s, Japanese flying Niks, Germans flying Doras or K-4s and the western allies flying spits, p-51s and so on...in effect, a permanent 1945 plane set. The AvA tries to reflect different times and places in the war, so our setups have more limited plane choice, but Mugadai's notion seems, IMHO, to be a great alternative to the traditional MAs (heh....limited, of course, by HTC resources).
- oldman
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Quite a lot.
You know what's coming now... :D
In current tour 103 for example, all fighter planes have a K/D of 2.58 vs the B-17, but 6.08 vs Ju-88. That's quite a significant difference. The type of bomber does apparently matter. ;)
And sorry for the hijack :pray
LOLOLOL
i should know better than to try to argue with you! :aok :rofl
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LOLOLOL
i should know better than to try to argue with you! :aok :rofl
:rofl
That's very kind, but I'm ocasionally blatantly wrong too... see a certain recent thread in bug report forum... ;)
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It doesn't sound like a bad idea overall for the planes at specific bases.
What I'd like to see in AvA is have it set to either the European war or the Pacific war for a week each. So one week it would be Pacific fighters and maps and then the next week it would be Europe aircraft and maps.
I'd say just let all the planes be used from early war to late but just perk them and have them only have the uber rides available at specific bases. The German plane set for the Axis would be ok IMO because while they don't have many heavy bombers like the Allies, but if the heavy bombers were limited by base it would equal things out because the German did have 110's and several cannon birds.
As for CV's well just don't give the German Axis any CV's maybe just give them several battle groups because Axis didn't really use CV's. On the Allies side just give them 1 or 2 at the most and make the bases far away so they had to be very careful with them. If it took 4 or 5 hours to get a CV into position then they likely would keep them very far off the coast, which would be more realistic than how they are used in the MA's. Hell maybe not even give Allies CV's just give them battle groups as well. (no CV planes in the European theater anyway)
Allies have a well rounded plane set so no need to talk about them..
For the pacific Axis side the plane set is quite limited and there is no Japanese armor or flacks. So things would need to be fudged a bit maybe give the Japanese side 110's, Panzers & Osti's then call it a German Lend lease if you will just to even things up a bit. Then just limit the heavy buffs on Allies side by base restrictions.
We could maybe even fudge in a Eastern front by giving the Russians some Lend Lease aircraft and GV's..Give the Russians M16's and perked M4's (equal perk to the tiger) We could then lend lease the Ruskies some B26's just to be nice. Russian / German aircraft are almost close enough if you Lend Lease the P39's & P40's but they still have no high alt fighters. If the fuel burn was set to 1 then the LaLa's and Yaks could take up the slack, but we could also give the Russians a limited amount of Spitfires and Huricanes because they got some of those as well under the lend lease program.
Overall it could work if we were willing to fudge things a little bit, but I'd love to fight more Axis vs Allies plane set vs fighting everything under the sun like we have in the MA's.
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This sounds like CT. :D
Yea, but you gotta wait 2 weeks :noid
Who wants to wait that long?
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In 1v1 doghfight: yes. But not in a "war".
Allied CV attacks base. F4U's, F6F's, Seafires, TBM'S can put a rain of ords on the town.
Axis side? A6M's, D3A's, B5N's hardly can do the same.
The defender ups heavy bombers from a rear base. The Allies can up F4U's to intercept that Ju88's. The Axis side could try to stop fast, durable and heaviily armed bombers with Zero's only.
And regardless of individual pilot skill (which usually is pretty even in larger scenarios), the Axis side can hardly mount big bombing missions shutting down several fields in succession. - Ju 88's can simply not survive as long as B17's
How did they protect ships in the real war? they flew CAPs from the land. Sounds to me that the problem is not the planeset, but the mentality of the players. "We want to fly from the nearest base to the nearest fight with the best planes so your idea sucks"
personally i would spend all my time in this arena if it was implemented, nothing gets old faster than current MA set up. Squads are the only thing that make it fun unless youre a score potato.
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How did they protect ships in the real war? they flew CAPs from the land. Sounds to me that the problem is not the planeset, but the mentality of the players. "We want to fly from the nearest base to the nearest fight with the best planes so your idea sucks"
That still does require the Axis only to fly from a distant land base to protect their CV's while the Allies could still use their CV planes for same effect.
A distinct disadvantage for Axis.
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In the real war did the Germans have any real CV plane power? You're making an assumption that the land base would be 'distant'. In most cases a CV in the MA will be within 1 or 2 sectors of a friendly base. This arena is obviously to cater for the realism enthusiasts, and realism is un-equal in many ways. Personally i do not think your argument has any real merit, no offence intended of course sir. I suppose the vast dominance of the FW190D9 and 109K4 dont factor into it at all? The ju88 holds a huge bomb load, what you mean is they wouldnt survive in the current MA, because bombers rarely bother to climb over 10k. The whole concept of this arena would inspire large mission orientated gameplay and would be, for many of us, a breath of fresh air in a stagnant pool of la7s and chick 16s.
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Okay, I'm trying to make this concept simple.
1. Unbalanced planes? that's a laugh- don't underestimate Axis' pilots, and I mean their pilots!! Makes a huge difference. Most of MA pilots who have never tried AvA won't understand.
2. This has been tried before?? Try again! But don't do it under AvA or CT. Give it a permanent arena. Let it grow.
3. Bish neutral? Okay, I thought of giving the Russians and Italians grouped together and give it their own country=bish. Reasons are that, they both switched sides during WWII, but that won't work. Therefore it's 2 country warfare.
I'd like to hear from some STAFFERS!!
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A game is meant to be fun and fair, war is meant to be neither. So when you start off with uneven hence unfair sides, you will never have a fun or fair game.
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A game is meant to be fun and fair, war is meant to be neither. So when you start off with uneven hence unfair sides, you will never have a fun or fair game.
He has spoken. Thread over.
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.............I'd like to hear from some STAFFERS!!
A game is meant to be fun and fair, war is meant to be neither. So when you start off with uneven hence unfair sides, you will never have a fun or fair game.
Hows that for a staffers answer ! :D
Don't get me wrong, I think oldman and everyone else that works at the AvA arena (which is an arena on its own and has been for a long time, but refuses to grow) do a great job trying new things to stir up some interest. The problem is people like to fly what they like to fly, period. They will go to extremes to fly what they want and complain to high heaven (HTC) when they can't. So while you may get 50 people that want to fly AvA, most want to fly the 109, or the spit 16, or which ever plane they like, or have their squad linked with. That means most people are on one team, ganging the other team. Not fun for the low numbers guys, and the high number guy ain't giving up their rides so you stuck.
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I still want the Main Arena to have a Rolling Plane Set. :noid
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I still want the Main Arena to have a Rolling Plane Set. :noid
Praise Jeebus that's never going to happen.
ack-ack
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I don't like shooting down a P-51 with my P-51.
MUGADAI
Excellent idea. I think you should immediately bring this into play. You should refrain from shooting down other 51's. Perhaps you should start on a narrow scope of 51's, then expand it as you become more disciplined with holding off the trigger. I suggest you start by not shooting at 51's with this skin:
(http://www.ah-skins.com/skins/screenshot359.jpg)
:aok
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How bout an arena that either Pacific or Europe.
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A game is meant to be fun and fair, war is meant to be neither. So when you start off with uneven hence unfair sides, you will never have a fun or fair game.
I guess we can try to make it fair? is it posible to make the ally forces base more vulnerable to bombs. Let say a regular FH hanger would take 2.5 1000 lbs to go down. In this new arena let the ally base FH only take 1 lbs for it to go down. While axis hanger remain 2.5 1000 lbs to go down. This way the axis bombers become more effective, and so are there attack air crafts. A FW-190F8 would be like a P-51D or P47 in term of ground destruction power. Just an idea anywho.
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Small hanger= only early war planes are available with all vehicles(except perked vehicle). Medium hanger= midwar planes and late warplanes (except perked) and all vehicles, Large hanger= All planes and all vehicles.
I kinda like this part of the idea - the rest just wouldn't work in the MA I fear....
MUGADAI - do you fly FSO? That might be similar to what you're looking for and it's great fun...
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Just a question.
I've been asking this for in the AvA forum, but it seems to get nowhere. I know we have the early, mid, and all arena, but I don't like shooting down a P-51 with my P-51. The AvA has limited plane sets and other scenarios which inhibit game play. My suggestion is this, an arena where all the planes and vehicles are available to their respectful country. Allies (Americans Brits Russians)= Rooks, Axis(Germans, Japan, Italians)= knits, Neutral Base=bish. Small hanger= only early war planes are available with all vehicles(except perked vehicle). Medium hanger= midwar planes and late warplanes (except perked) and all vehicles, Large hanger= All planes and all vehicles. Use regular map and see what happens. I haven't received much support from the Allies Vs Axis areana.
Call the Areana, simply "The War"
MUGADAI
I like the idea and hopefully many would fly there. It would also clearly show what country has the biggest hole in the planeset so that HTC would have to fix that :) A double win hehe.
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we do not need more arenas, we need more planes for each early arena, thus providing more playability for such said highly unplayed arena's.
:aok