Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Cajunn on August 13, 2008, 07:02:05 PM
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I fly the 38 in the attack role quite a bit, and I have noticed that any time I get anywhere near auto ack the first hit you take is a Pilot Wound, I have talked to a few others that fly it and the report the same problem. And everything I have read or seen on this plane suggest that it was a sturdy plane and could take a pretty good beating. Is there some reason why its so wimpy in AH?
Cajunn :salute
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The pilot wound issue with the P-38 is an old one. No real reason has been found. As such, no solution has been found.
I think IF someone flew often enough (I don't anymore, wish I did) and filmed it, MAYBE something could be figured out. I don't have any reason to believe that HTC has not made an honest effort to find the problem.
I have gotten a pilot wound when I could find absolutely no damage to the plane itself any where. And of course, to hit the pilot, what ever caused the wound would have to penetrate the plane, and there SHOULD be a hole or other visible damage. THAT disturbs me, as it makes me thing there's a flaw in the damage model or some other issue with the code.
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The pilot wound issue with the P-38 is an old one. No real reason has been found. As such, no solution has been found.
I think IF someone flew often enough (I don't anymore, wish I did) and filmed it, MAYBE something could be figured out. I don't have any reason to believe that HTC has not made an honest effort to find the problem.
I have gotten a pilot wound when I could find absolutely no damage to the plane itself any where. And of course, to hit the pilot, what ever caused the wound would have to penetrate the plane, and there SHOULD be a hole or other visible damage. THAT disturbs me, as it makes me thing there's a flaw in the damage model or some other issue with the code.
I RARELY ever get one. I think ive gotten 3-4 in the last 3 months in P-38s.
In fact, I was discussing this with another pilot in the middle of a duel, he was saying how P-38s ALWAYS get pilot wounds... and then he shot me down. Destroyed EVERYTHING, but didn't give me a PW.
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Simple Actually: The "Pointie End" (Technical Term) of the aircraft is closest to the end of the barrell on the Flak Gun so it is the first thing that gets hit.
That and unlike the other big single engined fighters there is no engine out in front to stop any incoming rounds. Therefore the pilot stops the incoming round.
Seriously, you will notice that ANY incoming round also heads STRAIGHT for the radiator on the P-51.
:salute
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When I flew I rarely ever got pw'ed. Just sayin'.
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I recieved a pilot wound a couple of nights ago in a 38 and i was going away from the ack.....explain that one!
Oh and i was flying level or actually i was a little nose down trying to get out of it.
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Idk, I never get pilot wounded. Last night, I was in a 'gangbang' in my 38 getting ganged by about 10, and that thing took a beat down. I ended up surviving it only to get vulched on the runway. :( :lol
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I fly the 38 in the attack role quite a bit, and I have noticed that any time I get anywhere near auto ack the first hit you take is a Pilot Wound, I have talked to a few others that fly it and the report the same problem. And everything I have read or seen on this plane suggest that it was a sturdy plane and could take a pretty good beating. Is there some reason why its so wimpy in AH?
Cajunn :salute
I get pilot wounds very easily as well from auto acks and bombers. I attribute it to my ego swollen head, which makes a rather large target.
ack-ack
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I think all twin engined fighters have this issue in AH. No engine block to stop incoming rounds. It sometimes seems that I have no cockpit armor in the front of my Mosquito as almost anything will wound the pilot. Last time it was the 7.92mm machine gun on a Panzer IV H that I made a bass at.
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I noticed the same with the P-38, but lesser AC IE Zero will suffer pilot wounds in heavy flak. Last PM in the blue arena I heard the AC take a hit & I experienced a pilot wound along with a major engine hit. With that being said passing out & engine failure I was on the ground very shortly after that - passed out. :cry :noid
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Think all planes seem to suffer from this type of thing -
Mossie / 38s - Pilot wound
Tiffy - Oil
Pony - Rad
Try this -
Grab an F6F and try to de-ack a field with it. Almost always the first ack hit takes out the same gun on the same wing!!!!!
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Ive gotten tons of Pilot wounds in 38 ever since I made it my main attack airplane.
Why would I make it my main attack airplane then?
Because its so cool, climbs with ords so effeciently, and then after, along with the Yak, makes for probably the best 20 eny or higher fighter in a dogfight. There are some lower eny airplanes it stacks up nicely with.
The big secret to limiting pilot wounds is to keep dive bombing attacks as verticle as you can. Even with rockets. When I attack the ords on a medium base I come in upside down at about 10 to 12k and drop the two south end ords with 1,000 lb bombs. I then Immelman back up and over to about 5 to 6k and position myself right over the two N/W ords by the VH. I have my speed slow with dive flaps engaged so's I can pull out after releasing rockets. It takes a lot of practice but remember you have 10 rockets to use for 2 ords bunkers, so thats 5 volleys of 2. And try to attack so's your angled away from the target after the drop.
Dive bombing in the 38 takes a bit more finesse cause if you come in to fast you cant pull out. Coming into heavy ack when flat is suicide too. I believe the 38 is actually the 2nd best Jabo to attack GVs with cause its manuverable and you can climb out quickly again to attack with your second bomb. The absolute best, at least for me, is the Hellcat. But its slower, you only have one engine, and can only carry 6 rockets. But the Hellcat is a fine climber with ords too which puts it a little notch above the Corsair. But all the Yank Jabos are great dive bombers.
Try it tho, try keeping your attacks verticle and I'll bet your 38 success goes up. :salute
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I have my speed slow with dive flaps engaged so's I can pull out after releasing rockets.
Dive flaps are pretty much useless below 300mph IAS and won't help pull you out of a dive since you can do it easily pulling back on the stick. Even at 350mph IAS, you don't need dive flaps to recover from a dive unless you waited to long to pull out, then it might save you from pancaking on the deck.
ack-ack
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I have gotten a pilot wound when I could find absolutely no damage to the plane itself any where. And of course, to hit the pilot, what ever caused the wound would have to penetrate the plane, and there SHOULD be a hole or other visible damage. THAT disturbs me, as it makes me thing there's a flaw in the damage model or some other issue with the code.
stop running the side window down :D
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stop running the side window down :D
They don't fly well that way. Wrecks the aerodynamics. Besides, the wind blows my booze around, and knocks the fire off my cigar. :D
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Think all planes seem to suffer from this type of thing -
Mossie / 38s - Pilot wound
Tiffy - Oil
Pony - Rad
Try this -
Grab an F6F and try to de-ack a field with it. Almost always the first ack hit takes out the same gun on the same wing!!!!!
noticed that one the F4U 1D, always same gun, never any of the others.
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Simple Actually: The "Pointie End" (Technical Term) of the aircraft is closest to the end of the barrell on the Flak Gun so it is the first thing that gets hit.
That and unlike the other big single engined fighters there is no engine out in front to stop any incoming rounds. Therefore the pilot stops the incoming round.
If you look at what is actually in the nose of a 38 you'll see that there is a LOT of metal in there. You have cannon and 50's and their ammo, not to mention the armor plating. I believe that Murdr once posted a diagram of a 38 cockpit that showed the extensive armoring. While an engine block may provide better protection, i find it unacceptable that the 38 is so susceptible to pilot wounds.
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If you look at what is actually in the nose of a 38 you'll see that there is a LOT of metal in there. You have cannon and 50's and their ammo, not to mention the armor plating. I believe that Murdr once posted a diagram of a 38 cockpit that showed the extensive armoring. While an engine block may provide better protection, i find it unacceptable that the 38 is so susceptible to pilot wounds.
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/armor.jpg)
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/38guns.jpg)
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And there we go. Thanks Murdr. :salute
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I've also noticed that in the B-25H (I don't fly the C very often), pilot wounds seem to occur very frequently. I'll google its cockpit armour now.
<S>
Yossarian
EDIT: http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/B-25_Neat_Stuff.html (http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/B-25_Neat_Stuff.html)
It's the first one on the list, not sure how much it can show about PWs.
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How thick were the plates? On the 38?
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How thick were the plates? On the 38?
3/8th inch steel. They were rated to stop rounds of the .30 calibre family. Actually I have an account of at least 18 said rounds hitting the seat armor in combat without a penetration. A pristine .50 should easily penetrate the armor, however depending on the trajectory there are plenty of obsticals in the nose that could lessen the percentage of a .50 round making it into the cockpit. Does the game model that accurately? No idea, but I always repost the images when the old "you don't have an engine in front" comment comes up.
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That little nub dead center of the nose... what is that? Guncam?
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Yeah, it was there in the early models, but was moved in later models because the vibrations from the guns made the gun film almost useless.
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I usually dont bleed, instant explosion sounds better.
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(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/armor.jpg)
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/38guns.jpg)
how thick is that armor though?>
i thought i had read somewhere that it was 3/8" steel? if so, won't a 50 cal penetrate that thickness a few hunderd yards out?
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how thick is that armor though?>
i thought i had read somewhere that it was 3/8" steel? if so, won't a 50 cal penetrate that thickness a few hunderd yards out?
Correct. You got that from 4 quotes up!! :aok
3/8th inch steel. They were rated to stop rounds of the .30 calibre family. Actually I have an account of at least 18 said rounds hitting the seat armor in combat without a penetration. A pristine .50 should easily penetrate the armor, however depending on the trajectory there are plenty of obsticals in the nose that could lessen the percentage of a .50 round making it into the cockpit. Does the game model that accurately? No idea, but I always repost the images when the old "you don't have an engine in front" comment comes up.
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Correct. You got that from 4 quotes up!! :aok
believe it or not, i didn't read all the way down. i need to start doing that BEFORE i ask questions :rofl :rofl
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I RARELY ever get one. I think ive gotten 3-4 in the last 3 months in P-38s.
In fact, I was discussing this with another pilot in the middle of a duel, he was saying how P-38s ALWAYS get pilot wounds... and then he shot me down. Destroyed EVERYTHING, but didn't give me a PW.
I rarely get a pilot wound when going up against another plane, its mostly just when I'm going up against the auto ack.
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I rarely get a pilot wound when going up against another plane, its mostly just when I'm going up against the auto ack.
Same here actually. Pilots don't hit me, ack does.
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After shooting a lot of these planes down it doesnt make sense to me either. I try to hit pilots in the 38 and its always the tail that falls off first. Only in profile view have I ever hit a pilot but mostly its wings and tails. The P38 is my favorite plane to drop on CVs with because it climbs so good has a dive flap and is stable while diving. In the P51 the trim adjusting can take so much time the five inch gunners start firing before Im aiming right unless I adjust for a high rate of speed before even trying. If I get a pilot wound in those cases I just ditch it.
The P38 can deack from 10k you know and it has ten rockets so two of them and any field is out of guns! :D
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I went through a bunch of film and it seems that AA and cannon cause most of my PW's in the 38.
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They don't fly well that way. Wrecks the aerodynamics. Besides, the wind blows my booze around, and knocks the fire off my cigar. :D
Well... they now make all weather lighters, I'm sure that'd work...
And I know at least SOME modern fighter planes (seen 'em in f15s... true...) have cup holders, so, just a LITTLE modernization please?
:aok