Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Donzo on August 14, 2008, 06:32:12 PM

Title: CFL's and you
Post by: Donzo on August 14, 2008, 06:32:12 PM
With the global dumbing of the world comes things that make you go...uh, what?

One of the big pushes by the al bores of the world is a shift to using CFL's (compact fluorescent light bulbs) instead of traditional incandescent light bulbs in an attempt to save money and reduce the dreaded, world ending, hoax called global warming.

When one of these things breaks, it is not such a small deal dealing with the cleanup.  The EPA has even come out with a procedure to follow when dealing one of these breaks in your home...it's not as easy as just sweeping up the broken pieces.

So what is actually gained?  Are the risks to you and your loved ones worth the "savings"?

http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#fluorescent (http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#fluorescent)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198)
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: gwano on August 14, 2008, 06:58:07 PM
another part of the equation is that the vast majority are manufactured in china.
this doesn't help our trade problems, but the Al Bores of our country cant be bothered with such trivial issues as that.

Seems like Al Bore is contradicting himself on being "green" though.The mercury into the environment is not exactly "Environmentally Freindly"
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Yossarian on August 14, 2008, 07:50:29 PM
With the global dumbing of the world comes things that make you go...uh, what?

One of the big pushes by the al bores of the world is a shift to using CFL's (compact fluorescent light bulbs) instead of traditional incandescent light bulbs in an attempt to save money and reduce the dreaded, world ending, hoax called global warming.

When one of these things breaks, it is not such a small deal dealing with the cleanup.  The EPA has even come out with a procedure to follow when dealing one of these breaks in your home...it's not as easy as just sweeping up the broken pieces.

So what is actually gained?  Are the risks to you and your loved ones worth the "savings"?

http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#fluorescent (http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#fluorescent)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198)

It's only risky if you manage to break the thing in the first place.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: lasersailor184 on August 14, 2008, 07:58:31 PM
It's only risky if you manage to break the thing in the first place.

Like say, when you throw it out.  Or it breaks in the trash.


The CFL business is all roadkill. 
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Donzo on August 14, 2008, 08:04:42 PM
It's only risky if you manage to break the thing in the first place.

Oh, that will never happen...right?

Is it worth the risk?
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Pei on August 14, 2008, 09:09:08 PM
another part of the equation is that the vast majority are manufactured in china.

The vast majority of everything is made in china - light bulbs aren't going to make much difference.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: DREDIOCK on August 14, 2008, 09:36:50 PM
Read the back of the package of one of those.

"Warning. Lamp Contains Mercury. Manage in accord with Disposal Laws"

So even if you believe in global warming. Your left on the horns of a dilemma .
Contribute to global warming.
Or poison the ground.


Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: gwano on August 14, 2008, 09:57:11 PM
The vast majority of everything is made in china - light bulbs aren't going to make much difference.

"The vast majority of everything is made in china"  

Your'e right, lets just keep sending our money to foreign countries, for bad products, at any cost because it won't make that much difference.
I didn't think of it that way.




Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Fulmar on August 14, 2008, 10:07:36 PM
Read the back of the package of one of those.

"Warning. Lamp Contains Mercury. Manage in accord with Disposal Laws"

So even if you believe in global warming. Your left on the horns of a dilemma .
Contribute to global warming.
Or poison the ground.
Very few people I know recycle their rechargeable AA's etc or their lithium camera batteries.  If we're gonna play this game, let's all get on board now!

I've broken one CFL in the last 2 years or so, I knew the potential dangers of cleaning it up so I was careful.  But as for recycling them?  There's maybe one spot in my town of 60k that does it.  Recycling in this country could do a whole lot better, especially with the cost of metals these days.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Gunslinger on August 15, 2008, 08:51:36 AM
Very few people I know recycle their rechargeable AA's etc or their lithium camera batteries.  If we're gonna play this game, let's all get on board now!

I've broken one CFL in the last 2 years or so, I knew the potential dangers of cleaning it up so I was careful.  But as for recycling them?  There's maybe one spot in my town of 60k that does it.  Recycling in this country could do a whole lot better, especially with the cost of metals these days.

That in of itself is yet another scam.  Recycling anything other than certain metals (IE aluminum, copper) produces more polutants and uses more energy that it does to put them in a land fill.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: lazs2 on August 15, 2008, 09:23:15 AM
I use em cause they don't seem to burn out and they probly save me a buck or two in juice.   They also gave me a crapload of em for free a while back.    The first ones were crappy.. the new ones start right up and put out a lot of light.

If I need to get rid of one I will simply throw it in the garbage.   

lazs
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: john9001 on August 15, 2008, 09:58:27 AM
places that sell them will take the old ones back.

do you know how they are made, each bulb only uses a tiny drop of mercury which is vaporized when the bulb is manufactured.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: lazs2 on August 15, 2008, 10:15:06 AM
easier to just throw em in the garbage.. and.. think of the gas we save not driving around looking for a place to recycle the damn things.

lazs
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Fulmar on August 15, 2008, 10:51:46 AM
That in of itself is yet another scam.  Recycling anything other than certain metals (IE aluminum, copper) produces more polutants and uses more energy that it does to put them in a land fill.
The point of recycling the metals in batteries is very worth while.  Lithium and cadmium (along with some other chemistries) are poisonous.  When I worked at Batteries Plus in college (over a 3 year span), the cost of nickel alone when up about 60%.  We were given figures on the lead market and since 2003 lead was up some 300%.  Thankfully about 80-90% of your car battery contains recycled lead.  Last time I checked, metals don't grow on trees.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Donzo on August 15, 2008, 11:19:48 AM
places that sell them will take the old ones back.

do you know how they are made, each bulb only uses a tiny drop of mercury which is vaporized when the bulb is manufactured.

So what?  The mecury vapor is released when the bulb is broken and it is the hazard.

Quote
Mercury concentration in the study room air often exceeds the Maine Ambient Air Guideline (MAAG) of 300 nanograms per cubic meter (ng/m3) for some period of time, with short excursions over 25,000 ng/m3, sometimes over 50,000 ng/m3, and possibly over 100,000 ng/m3 from the breakage of a single compact fluorescent lamp. A short period of venting can, in most cases, significantly reduce the mercury air concentrations after breakage. Concentrations can sometimes rebound when rooms are no longer vented, particularly with certain types of lamps and during/after vacuuming. Mercury readings at the one foot height tend to be greater than at the five foot height in non vacuumed situations.

Although following the pre-study cleanup guidance produces visibly clean flooring surfaces for both wood and carpets (shag and short nap), all types of flooring surfaces tested can retain mercury sources even when visibly clean. Flooring surfaces, once visibly clean, can emit mercury immediately at the source that can be greater than 50,000 ng/m3. Flooring surfaces that still contain mercury sources emit more mercury when agitated than when not agitated. This mercury source in the carpeting has particular significance for children rolling around on a floor, babies crawling, or non mobile infants placed on the floor.

Link: http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflreport.htm (http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflreport.htm)
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Cthulhu on August 15, 2008, 11:27:28 AM
That in of itself is yet another scam.  Recycling anything other than certain metals (IE aluminum, copper) produces more polutants and uses more energy that it does to put them in a land fill.

The point of recycling the metals in batteries is very worth while.  Lithium and cadmium (along with some other chemistries) are poisonous.  When I worked at Batteries Plus in college (over a 3 year span), the cost of nickel alone when up about 60%.  We were given figures on the lead market and since 2003 lead was up some 300%.  Thankfully about 80-90% of your car battery contains recycled lead.  Last time I checked, metals don't grow on trees.
Kudos gentlemen. :salute  You both get it.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Skuzzy on August 15, 2008, 11:43:27 AM
I switched to them some time ago just to save money.  It worked.  The big savings is the lack of heat being generated which causes an A/C to work more to keep the home at the temperature set.  Our electric bill dropped 10 to 15% over the same period the year before.

Phillips has the ALTO line of CFL's which is the only flourescent light(s) to be granted non-hazardous status in the state California and by the EPA.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Toad on August 15, 2008, 11:49:31 AM
Where did the mercury come from to begin with? Wasn't it out there in the environment already?
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: BoilerDown on August 15, 2008, 12:21:23 PM
Where did the mercury come from to begin with? Wasn't it out there in the environment already?

Mercury is found in the mineral cinnabar, and as such doesn't flow around in the environment in a liquid state.  Mankind learned to extract the mercury from cinnabar a long time ago though.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnabar .
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: AKIron on August 15, 2008, 12:37:42 PM
If I need to get rid of one I will simply throw it in the garbage.   

lazs

Little doubt that over 99% of them will wind up in the garbage just like yours. Mine will.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Cthulhu on August 15, 2008, 03:08:24 PM
I switched to them some time ago just to save money.  It worked.  The big savings is the lack of heat being generated which causes an A/C to work more to keep the home at the temperature set.  Our electric bill dropped 10 to 15% over the same period the year before.

Phillips has the ALTO line of CFL's which is the only flourescent light(s) to be granted non-hazardous status in the state California and by the EPA.
We had a study here at Lockheed a few years ago concerning the benefits of LCD monitors vs CRT's. The LCD's obviously used less power, but the savings were doubled when we took the reduced heat generated into account.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Fulmar on August 15, 2008, 04:10:28 PM
We had a study here at Lockheed a few years ago concerning the benefits of LCD monitors vs CRT's. The LCD's obviously used less power, but the savings were doubled when we took the reduced heat generated into account.
Not to mention the more lead.

It turns out that the glass in a CRT contains a lot of lead. A big CRT can contain up to 5 pounds (2.2 kilograms) of lead. It is mixed into the glass for two reasons:

    * It improves the optical quality of the glass. Adding a small amount of lead to glass is very common when creating glass for lenses, and you may have also heard of leaded crystal. Optical quality is especially important at the front of the CRT.
    * It acts as a shield against radiation generated by the electron gun and electron beam.

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question678.htm
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: lazs2 on August 16, 2008, 09:51:45 AM
on noooooooo!!!!  with all that lead...  what about the poor condor??

The only solution is to set up a government agency that inspects peoples trash to make sure that they are not putting anything harmful in there.

Perhaps offer a reward for turning in your neighbor.

lazs
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Fulmar on August 18, 2008, 04:37:50 PM
Look at muffin up here be an internet tough guy.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: lazs2 on August 19, 2008, 08:32:05 AM
so fulmar.. you like the idea of a new government agency to go through peoples trash?  or is it just the turning in your neighbor part that gets you off?

It was suggested here in kalifornia that more inspection of trash be done with an extra person on the garbage trucks.   I wonder if he gets a gun and a badge?

lazs

Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Fulmar on August 19, 2008, 08:52:23 AM
Please, like any of my posts said anything of the sort.  Putting words into my posts...  The responsibility starts with the citizen, not the government.
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: bongaroo on August 19, 2008, 09:00:20 AM
Saved what they cost me last year.  None have burned out and none have been busted or broke open.  Estimate that switching will be saving me about 100 or more a year.   :aok
Title: Re: CFL's and you
Post by: Trell on August 19, 2008, 10:18:18 AM
After changing out most of my Bulbs with CFL my electricity bill when down about 20$ a month.  Cant complain. I change a bulb about every 6 mothes now rather then one every couple weeks.
 My elf i am more for energy independence then saving the world.  We should start shipping all of this stuff to china like Canada does to the US.