Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funkedup on August 09, 2001, 02:13:00 AM
-
Bad News:
1. Can't form or join a squad.
2. Acks and ships rebuild almost instantly.
3. Map is a bit too large for the taste of some players. If structures would stay down and we could get LVT's off the task forces this wouldn't be a problem, because Allies could take some fields in Norway.
4. No "dot radar" in the planes is great, but it would be nice to have "dot radar" in the tower.
Good News:
Just about everything else about it is good. :)
-
how the icon works there ? hope no laser telemetry range finder
othervise GREAT thx HTC !
-
Only got go fly there about half an hour before I had to hit the sack, but I loved it.
People seem to be most displeased with the distances involved and having to "find the action"; fellas, that is closer to what combat was like historically: Hours of boredom, interrupted by seconds of sheer terror.
Populate the arena, enjoy it. This is what lots of us have been clamoring for, and HTC gave it to us.
Offer constructive criticism, don't slam it or nitpick it to death, please? They've gone out on a limb here, don't make them regret it.
-
I *thoroughly* enjoy it. I flew about 2 hours and got 4 kills, but each was much more fun than in the MA. Obviously it needs a bit of tweaking, and time for people to get used to it.
Feedback:
1. I'd prefer to see the friendly icons reduced to the same range as enemy.
2. Duration of damage to facilities needs to be greatly increased. 2 hours?
3. Time of day effects would be nice, especially for lanc/ju88 raids.
4. I think Norway was a poor choice of terrain to kick-off this arena. There is a European terrain I think would have been better (less time between fights).
Fidd
-
Yeh, a bit shorter distances would be nice.
Also would like the 190A5.
-
I quess the other "iron" will be inducted as time goes by? That is the 51's,47's!!!! and 38's...? :)
xBAT
-
Don't think so Xbat.
I think they are rotating "theaters", but I have no idea how often.
Each theater brings a new terrain and planeset.
-SW
-
Flew for nearly 3 hours last night. A lot for me and had a blast, even flying the LW iron which I suck in.
What funked said, but I know the dot only option in the tower is not an option yet. Wish it was or we would use it in our historical events.
PT boats, LTV's would be nice from the task groups. Even though the LW does not have an CV aircraft they could still have some fun with their task groups. :)
We also could not set up our squad.
Lastly the "switch" time is a bit long. I am one of the guys that would switch sides if the numbers are out of balance and I can't if I have to wait 24 hours each time.
Over all that is where you will find this dog. Combat Theatre is it for me! :D
-
How about an "air start" for buffs? ;)
-
yep 24 is way to long to wait to switch sides
logged on last night, LW had 16 and the RAF had 12. so i picked the RAF. about an hour later the LW where down to 5 so i decided to switch, no joy "you have 1300 minutes to wait"
i think it would be safe to lower it to about an hour or so, seing that i don't think we are going to have any resets in this arena :D
-
Actually the way they have it would prob be cool Swulfe. I quess I'm in my 47 obession but flying a spit or 109 vrs the planes it had to really fight is going to be cool.
xBAT
-
All of my concerns have been addressed in previous posts.
Switch time too long, no need really for it to be there right now. Let us keep the numbers balanced, please! :)
Friendly icons should be the same short distance as enemies, or at least down to 6K, not the 10K they are now (please change this in the SEA as well! :) )
Downtimes increased due to extreme distances between bases (tho hangars might need to be an exception so no one gets closed out of being able to fly.)
Other than that, it's a blast! Distances are too long for a quick fight, but I'll just go to the MA or TA if I don't have time to go out over the North Sea. :)
-
I just want to quickly say I support this arena.
I hope the squadron invites get fixed soon though. Also, I agree about making the icons equal distances between friendly and enemy. Would be fun trying to find your squadron or strike group after being separated and fly towards a bunch of dots you think are friendlies only to find out you are 3,000 yards away from a whole gaggle of enemy. That'll force better radio comm's.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: Steven ]
-
Good points about the radar modes (that it's a limitation of the software, not the arena setup) and the side switch time (make it 15 minutes or so).
-
I haven't had chance to try it yet but I'll look forward to flying in there soon.
I would like to know if there is a night-time and for how long; if yes then would it be possible to increase the night or have more lowlevel clouds or at least very dark clouds to make it more North Sea like? The thing I liked in HS is the dark clouds over Norway... very nice - see http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/617tirpitz.jpg (http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/617tirpitz.jpg)
Regards
Nexx
-
Remove the range ICON,, just leave the plane type Or just the Rook,Knight,Bishops Icon over the plane Let them figure out range plane type. OH, and leave it at 3k both freindly and enemy, just enuff time to react but not enuff time to plan.
THAT would be perfect IMO.
NUTTZ
-
Awesome, I enjoy it as is. I do like the current setup ( the norway terrain was an instant hit with me the moment I saw it).
However the 109G10 does NOT belong in this planeset, neither does the dora or the tempest. It makes no sense other than to adda concession to a limited historical planset. I say its a concession that is not needed.
-
Bf109G-10s vs Seafire MkIIcs is not a very fair fight.
"Oh gee, I'm being bounced again, what a huge surprise."
1944 German stuff against 1942 British stuff seems like a poor introduction of the CA.
Germans vs. Americans would have been better I think.
-
Karnak, late-model Typhoons are available, and Tempests too if you are willing to pay the price. :)
Some Fleet Air Arm Hellcats would be nice too.
Certainly we need some later-marque Spits, but we have to wait for the HTC plane factory to fill that order. :(
-
Ammo: Focke-Wulf 190 D-9 was first around in mid 1943. It belongs in this planeset. As for the G10 and Tempest I agree they might not fit with the others but it all works out to be even from the planes we have to chose from on each side for now.
Kanark: We have the g2 and f4 just like you have spit 5 and seafire. You also have spit 9 for our G-6 and A-5/8 and you have a temp for our G10 and Dora. Dont say you only have early stuff for our late stuff. We all have about the same.
Also this is a 1943 arena of the North Sea. American stuff has no place here.
This is the problem many predicted for a historical arena. It's been out for 2 days and people whinning about the plane set.
So far from what I've seen all the fights have been mostly spit 9s and seafires vs 109 g6s/g10s and 190 a's. All the fights I have seen *started* above 15k and were pretty even. I think things are pretty equal right now and HTC sould worry about more important stuff like getting the bar dar sorted out.
Thanks for the HA HTC :).
-
Oh yea forgot about the Typhoons, you guys have plenty of stuff to fite our LW rides with. AND you have the only buff that can do any real damage, so stop whinning ;).
-
Flew in the Combat Arena for about two hours today.
Its the MA with different settings.
Historical matchups aside, there is little historical about this arena. I'm glad HTC did not call it the HA.
Virtually every fight ended with a 3:1 scenario usually involving a spit flat-turning endlessly on the deck. Planes would dive into 4 enemy aircraft then fight until they died. There was instant respawning from a nearby CV as 8 LW planes picked off the spawners 1 at a time (that's 8:1 at a time). Eventually, a couple high allied planes would come in and end up on the deck in 30 seconds.
The icon range makes little difference. The dot-dar makes little difference. Everyone just goes to the closest mid-sector and furballs.
The numbers are not high enough to make this arena even remotely viable. 30-40 people means its going to be tough to find a fight... and there is going to be little accomplished by doing anything other than dogfight.
I'm going to keep flying in it in the hopes that it turns more historical. I like the idea, but I don't really think many people are interested in what it has to offer. Furballs with different icon settings and plane selections are still furballs.
AKDejaVu
-
The only aircraft that has the range to fly from Scotland to Norway, fight, and then return is the Lancaster (which, btw, the British escorted with Mustang MkIIs and Mustang MkIVs). Other than that, the Seafire, a 1942 aircraft that is fundamentally a 1941 aircraft, is the only British aircraft to have the range to fight, and that only due to its mobile runway.
Originally posted by AKhog:
Ammo: Focke-Wulf 190 D-9 was first around in mid 1943.
Poppycock. The Fw190D-9 first saw service in September of 1944.
FWIW, I'm not counting either the Tempest (besides being perked it can't reach the fights) or the Fw190D-9 because if a plane is at all perked it becomes a non-factor.
I can't use perked aircraft anyways. ;)
1941
Spitfire MkVb
Bf109F-4
Ju88A-4
1942
Seafire MkIIc (fundamentally a 1941 aircraft)
Spitfire MkIX
Bf109G-2
1943
Fw190A-5
1944
Lancaster MkIII (kind of, its got the guns but not the engines)
Typhoon MkIb (its got the late series engine)
Tempest MkV
Bf109G-10
Fw190A-8
Fw190F-8
Fw190D-9
[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
-
After I saw what those early-war Spits can do I guess I'll fly more with those easymode planes :)
-
S! AKHOG
FockeWulf 190D-9 Dora first appeared in August of 1944.
-
What would be really cool would be to have an arena with no ground. Just sky blue 3D space into infinity.......
No gravity just mindless furballing :)
Think on it~
Y
-
SeaWulfe... I think Yeager has gotten into your stash. :eek:
-
its called wing commander or tie fighter y
-
originally posted by AKDejaVu....
and there is going to be little accomplished by doing anything other than dogfight.
Honestly i think that's the whole point. HTC is trying to get a situation similar to what fighter vs. fighter combat was like. right now on this map, the combat is similar to the rodeos and circus where like (with a lot less aircraft obviously). where we meet each other at between 15-25k, and the fight is on from there.
if/when we switch to PTO map and plane set, i'm sure you'll see the fights start at a much lower alt(around 10k, like it was in the PTO)
as it is now there is no strat involved, no bases to capture, no factories to bomb. it's just for historical match-ups, with the occasional bomber to shoot down.
-
"Honestly i think that's the whole point. HTC is trying to get a situation similar to what fighter vs. fighter combat was like. right now on this map, the combat is similar to the rodeos and circus where like (with a lot less aircraft obviously). where we meet each other at between 15-25k, and the fight is on from there."
=============
I agree. Also, like the entire game, the Combat Theater arena is not complete and is really nothing more than just a baby being just 3-days old. It'll find its niche with maturity. However, I do see the CT becoming the place to go when the plane set is fleshed out so that Wildcat, Warhawk and other early-plane fans have a place to fight it out without being eviscerated by N1Ks and LA7s. This place may also lend itself more to rail strikes and some of the tricks HT may have up his sleeve.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
-
HTC is trying to get a situation similar to what fighter vs. fighter combat was like. right now on this map, the combat is similar to the rodeos and circus where like (with a lot less aircraft obviously). where we meet each other at between 15-25k, and the fight is on from there.
The fighter vs fighter combat is identical to the MA. How can you possible think it is any different? Its just that now that's all there really is to do. How does this make anything more historical?
The ONLY historical aspect is that now you have allied planes on one side and axis on the other. That is it.
There is still endless respawning.
There is still a fight/die-fight/die mentallity.
There is virtually no authentic wingman type behavior.
Most are entering a furball looking for the right opportunity.
I have RTB'd about 2 times since I've been playing there. I believe that to be about the norm from what I've seen.
I only saw one fight last night that went over 20k. Most were below 5. Of course, there was an allied CV just off the coast that stayed there for some time because a) The allieds didn't want to fly as far to fight and b) the axis didn't want to fly as far to fight.
There is no real risk associated with loosing the CV. There is no real risk associated with jumping into a furball. Basically, there is nothing even remotely promoting any type of historical behavior.
The arena can only provide the tools... the players have to do the rest. Right now, the players are saying they want an instant fun fight. I'm questioning why an HA is needed to accomplish this.
AKDejaVu
-
I'm questioning why an HA is needed to accomplish this.
You answered your own question a few lines up:
you have allied planes on one side and axis on the other.
Not to mention no in-flight dot radar and historical terrains and short icons.
Why are you always a wet blanket when HTC responds to players desires and it doesn't fit your idea of fun?
-
BD, Are you trying to insinuate my stash somehow makes me want to furball mindlessly in an anti-grav arena?
Hardly... it makes me want to crash into the ground... A LOT!
:)
-SW
-
Deja,
"I'm questioning why an HA is needed to accomplish this."
You don't have to play the CT and you don't have to pee in my cheerios. I like the CT (HA) due to one thing...historical matchups of aircraft. That's it. Actually, the name "Combat Theater" may be appropriate because it'll concentrate on just that...a particular theater of operations and the correct time-frame for those aircraft. If we ever get a SouthPacific Theater, you will NOT see LW aircraft. I find this an attractive idea.
I am a firm believer this will really pay dividends when we get some early war planes. I think it's a great breath of fresh air to have the plane set restricted to a historical period of time or battle/s.
"There is still endless respawning.
There is still a fight/die-fight/die mentallity.
There is virtually no authentic wingman type behavior.
Most are entering a furball looking for the right opportunity"
Everyone defines the arena differently, but to me "historical" does not mean "authentic" in terms of radar, distance flown, respawning, wingman behavior and furballing. Plain and simple, I feel this arena to be a place where aircraft can be pitted against similar types and maybe give the feel of a particular period of time or battle. I can't wait for a CT with F4F, P40, A6M2, Dauntless and similar without having to fight LW aircraft or swarms of LA7s or even the potential of meeting up with early jets. That just bursts my bubble as to what I'm looking for.
I do hope the CT survives and matures. You have a choice as do I. I'll attend both arenas but I favor the potential CT has to offer.
-Puke 332nd Flying Mongrels
woops, CT = Combat Theater.
CA = Combat Arena which is what I think they call it.
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Steven ]
-
The fighter vs fighter combat is identical to the MA. How can you possible think it is any different? Its just that now that's all there really is to do. How does this make anything more historical?
that's what i meant by the circus and rodeo comment, the only really strategic purpose of those was to draw the LW out to fight.
in the MA people use the pretense of a field capture just to set up a vulch fest( i know that not everyone does this )..here there is no oportunity for that.
and yes the fights actually do start around 15-25k here, but i do agree that most of them end on the deck. But that is quite accurate as well, a lot of the accounts i've read have ended with a fight to the deck.
overall i agree that it is close to the MA, but there are enough differences to make it enjoyable for me.
[edit]
heh quoting myself.......
in the MA people use the pretense of a field capture just to set up a vulch fest( i know that not everyone does this )..here there is no oportunity for that.
what this results in is 2 sides meeting each other with whatever advantage they can get. be it numbers, altitude, coordination etc... it's not a matter of waiting for someone to spawn and then just picking them off. you have to rely on skill and SA.
i had my most enjoyable fight since i started flying AH in the CT against zigrat( err..zighawk, sorry :) ) and hblair on the first night...<S> that was a blast even though ya got me in the end HB ( you're both lucky i couldn't shoot straight that night :D )
anyways, deja, if you don't like it or you think it's just like the MA you don't have to fly in it. it's all for fun no matter what arena your flying in :)
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: pugg666 ]
-
Why are you always a wet blanket when HTC responds to players desires and it doesn't fit your idea of fun?
I'm sorry.. but you are totally out of line with this.
I'm not responding to anything HTC has done. I am responding to how the players are handling it.
HTC has provided an arena for historical matchups. It is becoming a single furball arena. How am I saying this is HTC's fault?
What I am also commenting on is how so many say they want something, and end up showing their true worth when it is provided.
I am flying in the CT. I am not constantly squeaking about it in there. I will support more historical actions in that arena.
I have made no comment on the icon settings because I have no oppinion on it. The change in dot dar is irrelevant because everything is happening over the channel out of dot-dar range anyways. I've always supported the NOE no-bar-dar idea... so I'm pleased with that.
AKDejaVu
-
that's what i meant by the circus and rodeo comment, the only really strategic purpose of those was to draw the LW out to fight.
The only real purpose of those was to draw the LW away from the bombers. Fighters aren't developed to fight fighters. They are developed to protect bombers or kill them. They are developed to protect bomber killers or kill them. That is it.
It is pointless to endlessly send fighters up simply to fight fighters. That is not historical. They may have tried to bait them.. but there was always a reason it was being done. A strategic reason... something this arena is missing.
AKDejaVu
-
Deja, so last night wasn't good for you either? :D
the new arena is a blast when you find a nice 2v2 or similar out over the North Sea. The insane furball wasn't all that fun tho. Maybe if the numbers were closer to even, but as it was... I just don't know how to avoid five 109s in a Seafire. :(
-
The only real purpose of those was to draw the LW away from the bombers. Fighters aren't developed to fight fighters. They are developed to protect bombers or kill them. They are developed to protect bomber killers or kill them. That is it.
ok.....
the only real purpose of those was to draw the lw into fighter vs. fighter combat. how can you possibly think differently?
i don't see a logical reason why the RAF would send up to 12 squadrons of fighters to protect, what, 6-12 light/medium bombers. the bombers where the bait on the hook. regardless of wether or not is was very successfull, the reason for the rubarbs, rodeos, and circus' was to draw the LW day fighters out. honestly i don't think the RAF was stupid enough to believe that such tiny bomber force would have ANY effect.
in other words it is accurate in the it is drawing out the LW pilots here. and yes it is completely pointless because of respawn, well except for the fun factor of course ;)
[edit]
Fighters aren't developed to fight fighters
explain the spitfire then?
it is not an escort due to combat radius
it is not a bomber killer due to it's fragility, compared to say an a series 190 (which itself was not designed as a bomber hunter)
it's a point defense fighter that was pressed into service as both an escort and bomber hunter due to lack of anything better at the time...
to protect bomber killers, and kill them....yes i agree with that.
but most fighters in wwII were developed for point defense/air superiority
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: pugg666 ]
-
Its well known the Rodeos and such other British tactics were primarily intend to force battle on the LW day-figters in the west.
Half a dozen Blenheims dont do anything in RL.
Some of us forget RL didnt have AH GPS/Laser bombing accuracy.
-
Some questions you need to ask yourself:
Why was the first fighter developed?
What is the strategic value of shooting down a fighter?
Why would it be necessary to develop a fighter capable of killing another fighter?
What strategic value, by itself, does a fighter possess?
There is nothing strategic about a fighter. The spit was developed to prevent bombers from hitting England, and to prevent LW escorts from stopping them.
If Germany did not intend on dropping any bombs on England... would fighters have played any role in anything?
What is the point of killing LW fighters? So they can't kill allied fighters? Couldn't you accomplish the same thing simply by not taking allied fighters up?
Take off the blinders. Fighters are tactical, not strategic. They are designed to handle an aspect of things, not fight the war. Their existance is a response to a bigger threat.
AKDejaVu
-
The purpose of killimg the German fighters was to weaken the German air defenses so that the bomber fleets would face less oposition.
-
The fighters role is to achieve air superiority. Either in defensive or in offensive.
This in turn allows bombers and jabos untethered freedom to attack strategic targets such as oil refineries,factories and transportation routes such as saturating rail yards,to defey the enemy supplys to the front.
In 1943 US Airmen who fought over Europe called
it the "Big League" bewcause of the ferocity of flak and strong Luftwaffe presence. The daylight bombing did not really start to take serious strategic effect until air superiority was achieved . Then total systematic destruction of German resourses became more efficient and less haphazard then some of the earlier strikes that were decimated and harrassed by the luftwaffe.
Rodeos were used to help break the luftwaffes back. Though the effect they had on acheiveing air superiority is minimal comparative to the destruction of air fields and bombing of factories.
Fighters were used both in strategic and tactical applications.
But it is a double edged sword and one edge is sharper then the other.
-
FWIW Frank Gabreski told some of us Northolt guys once that the Spitfire was a "fighter fighter". He flew Spit 9's with 315 Sqn.
-
Back on topic:
1. Can't form or join a squad.
2. Acks and ships rebuild almost instantly.
3. Map is a bit too large for the taste of some players. If structures would stay down and we could get LVT's off the task forces this wouldn't be a problem, because Allies could take some fields in Norway.
4. No "dot radar" in the planes is great, but it would be nice to have "dot radar" in the tower.
1 and 2 are fixed. Not sure about 3 (haven't tried field capture yet). Looks like 4 is a limitation of the software.
The only new whine I have is the 5" flak which I whined about in another thread.
I'm definitely enjoying the combat in there.
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
---====!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 262 !!!!!!!!!!!!!====---
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
-
Hey Deja, I'm not sure how anyone could go about remedying the problems as you see them, except in some cases by the players themselves.
There is still endless respawning.
Well, yeah... but what would the alternative to this be? HTC forcing a 10 minute wait or something?
There is still a fight/die-fight/die mentallity.
People fight, people die. Then people fight again. I'm not sure what the problem is here unless we should get booted out of the arena for dieing.
There is virtually no authentic wingman type behavior.
Speak for yourself. :) Last night we had 8-11 guys on, hooked up to RW, broken up into Echo and Foxtrot flights, finger four formation at combat spread, utilizing TACFORM and TACCOM, and *very* by-the-book discipline and ROE. The arena settings and lack of information made for an amazing bit of immersion. Loved it.
Most are entering a furball looking for the right opportunity.
Like you were I think (at least the times I saw you last night you were alone). How would any arena settings change this?
Look, I'm not sure what the problem is... but it doesn't seem to me like your gripes are with the CT itself, but player mentality. Sure - tough one to overcome granted but I don't think it's HTC's responsibility (or even within their ability) to solve the issues as you've defined them. They simply set up an arena and beyond that it lies within' each player to approach it as they wish.
When I look at your problems there's not one of them I can see a solution to. Now if your trying to say "hey guys this isn't realistic in the strictest sense", then sure - you have a point. But that's some kind of abstract argument to be made elsewhere if people are trying to tell you that this arena *were* historical in the strictest sense.
No... HTC created a new arena with different settings that many people enjoy. How the players approach this arena could never be dictated to by HTC - it is up to each one of us to get what we want out of it.
That being said, there are definitely some issues and tweaks that could be made with the settings, but I doubt they'd address the types of issues you've raised. I would suggest you start a new topic that says "If you think the CT represents historical fighting, you're wrong", or something... but that doesn't strike me as a "gameplay & feedback" topic.
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]
-
Hey Deja, I'm not sure how anyone could go about remedying the problems as you see them, except in some cases by the players themselves.
I've said as much Nash. People say they want historical... they are given the tools... they turn it into an arena.
Well, yeah... but what would the alternative to this be? HTC forcing a 10 minute wait or something?
Not at all. Its just that I am still seeing the same enemy pilot 2 or 3 times each sortie. I'm not offering a cure to that... just saying there's nothing historical about it.
People fight, people die. Then people fight again. I'm not sure what the problem is here unless we should get booted out of the arena for dieing.
The dieing isn't the problem. Its that there isn't a fight/land in there anywhere that is the problem. There really isn't much of a point in RTB'n in this arena. Dare I say... no point at all.
Speak for yourself. Last night we had 8-11 guys on, hooked up to RW, broken up into Echo and Foxtrot flights, finger four formation at combat spread, utilizing TACFORM and TACCOM, and *very* by-the-book discipline and ROE. The arena settings and lack of information made for an amazing bit of immersion. Loved it.
And you went up against people doing the same thing? Or did you go up against disorganized onesy twosy opponents where your flights were scrapping for a kill? Bet I know the answer to that one.
Like you were I think (at least the times I saw you last night you were alone). How would any arena settings change this?
I was seldomely alone. I stuck near 16 where the fight was. There was always someone with in icon range of me. It was pretty typical for everyone last night.
BTW... I was on and I was in the middle of the furball. I'm not trying to say I was above all this behavior... just observing what was going on.
The furball mentality ruled supreme. Moreso than it has ever done in the MA. That is what I observed.
Look, I'm not sure what the problem is... but it doesn't seem to me like your gripes are with the CT itself, but player mentality. Sure - tough one to overcome granted but I don't think it's HTC's responsibility (or even within their ability) to solve the issues as you've defined them. They simply set up an arena and beyond that it lies within' each player to approach it as they wish.
Um.. don't know why you think I have a problem with HTC... I have actually said that's not the case.
What I have a problem with is the mentality that if we have x, y and z provided by HTC, then we will have a more realistic flight sim. Unless the flight control actuators are replaced at the same time... that is not going to be the case.
I'm still waiting to see any real attempt at immersion. Right now I see more concern with switching sides to even things out. I see more concern with flying directly at that block with the red bar because that's where you think the fight will be. I see planes diving into impossible situations in hopes of getting just one kill before dieing.
the Combat Arena is an excellent name for it. I guess what really gets to me is that people are calling this a "Historical Arena". It is not.
AKDejaVu
-
I think I understand where you're coming from...
One thing you said earlier sums up what your clarifying now:
"What I am also commenting on is how so many say they want something, and end up showing their true worth when it is provided.
So ok, it's not the CT - you're really complaining about people's behaviour or something. People have dissapointed you and here's your slap. You should get over this and know that nothing you say nor nothing HTC can do will fix this. Your input is simply a condemnation it seems to me. It's also a sort of pre-emptive strike against anyone who might say "The CT is historic, you MA guys are dweebs!". I don't see anyone bringing up such a thing on the BBS yet, so I'm not sure why this needs addressing now.
If *really* want to change people's approach to flying in the CT - the best place to start is with yourself.
Oh, and RTB is like... neccessary - we hit Bingo state many times.
Another thing - just being near 16 friendlies doesn't make you any less alone.
There's lots of fun to be had and in many different ways that you cannot get in the MA. It's just different, not better, is all. But you cannot expect anything from anyone else (and criticizing them for it is a big waste of time). You actually don't need people to fly a certain way to enjoy this.
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]
-
So as to not let this continue to be derailed, here's my own (personally speaking) CT feedback.
1) Squad listing is still a bit weird. Sometimes kills are attributed to the squad name, and sometimes it attributes them to the person that gave you the invite into the squad.
2) I would like to either see shorter field distances, or the ability to capture fields.
3) The innability to capture fields and the rebuild times make JABO and Buffs meaningless (I enjoy that aspect of AH).
-
I strongly disagree. Combat Theater IS an historical arena. It's an arena where you go to fly an aircraft against aircraft that historically opposed each other. You won't fly an F4U against LW.
The Special Events are where you go for what you are looking for. That's because there is a dedicated start time and someone to create and enforce the rules of the event. That really cannot be done in an arena setting because people are in and out all day in the arenas and the amount of time each person can dedicate to game play varies.
Special Events = more "authentic" tactics and strategy of an historical nature.
Combat Theater = rolling plane set where historically accurate adversaries are pitted against each other 24/7.
Main Arena = fly what you will 24/7 and good luck.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
Oh yeah, you must've missed it after the CV action off A16 last night. Zig (I think that was his name) created a Brit mission and we had a good number of Spit pilots and Typhie pilots fly eastward looking for action. And we found it. I was late with my Spit but as I kept climbing to the battle I was watching all the little black dots moving around and literally lost myself just watching it from afar. Then when I jumped in the fight, it was a target rich environment for both sides and it took me at least a minute to settle down and actually start zeroing in on someone. It was good and made the wait worthwhile. Hopefully in the not-so-distant future it'll be Wildcats and A6M2s doing the same thing.
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Steven ]
-
I have seen some very well organized flying in there. Last night I took up two sections (8 planes) of Typhoons and we were pretty damn organized.
The Jerries were plentiful and aggressive, so the two sections ended up apart from each other for a while, but fought very well on their own. I think we had 7 or 8 kills total, with only one loss. The 7 survivors rtb'ed together and my wingman Band and I even flew an overhead pattern for extra realism geek points. And all this despite RW going down in flames as usual.
And it wasn't just the RAF flying in organized fashion - throughout the night I ran into well-organized Schwärme of 109s. When you see four of them in a wide finger-four with 1000 yard spacing you know they ain't playin!
<S> to Band, Rosco, Mietla, Fester, JoshD (sp?), MarkAT, and Sancho!!!
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
If *really* want to change people's approach to flying in the CT - the best place to start is with yourself.
Not really much one player can do. I could set up a mission... but then it would simply be one red bar for the other country to fly to. This exact same thing happened with zig's mission last night.
If you decide to fly in any type of historical manner, it matters greatly what both the enemy and other friendlies are doing.
I noticed you didn't mention what type of opposition you ran into when you were flying in the finger fours.
Oh, and RTB is like... neccessary - we hit Bingo state many times.
Bingo ammo or bingo fuel? Gotta wonder how many times you coulda hit bingo fuel at an hour and a half a shot.
Like I said... this wasn't the norm.. not from what I saw last night.
Look at it this way... in that mission Zig set up... the one where about 10 allied planes encountered about 10 LW planes... how many returned home from that one?
Another thing - just being near 16 friendlies doesn't make you any less alone.
Yes it does.
There's lots of fun to be had and in many different ways that you cannot get in the MA. It's just different, not better, is all.
Wow.. this looks afully similar to "Its the MA with different settings and less pilots".
I happen to agree with that.
But you cannot expect anything from anyone else (and criticizing them for it is a big waste of time). You actually don't need people to fly a certain way to enjoy this.
Its not a matter of needing people to fly a certain way to affect my enjoyment. I was having fun in the CT last night. I'm simply saying it whas the same type of fun that can be found in the MA right now.
And while people aren't responsible for your enjoyment in an arena... they do have a direct impact on it.
As for criticizing the people that are flaking out out on their shot at historical accuracy... it pales in comparison to the criticism levied on those unhistorical MA sods that ruined their fun for them.
AKDejaVu
-
I said start with yourself, and your response: "there's not really much a player can do" still reflects this attitude of forcing (or wanting, rather) other players to fly in a certain way. Or maybe it's merely condemning them for not. I don't know. What I am saying is that if *you* want to fly in some "historical" way, then get a group of like-minded people together (your squad would be one example) and fly how you see fit. Perhaps you'll run into opposition doing the same thing. Barring that there really is no other way, nor a solution that I can see. You're totally welcome to fly with us if we are together and coordinated - just give us a shout. I think it would be great to see a bunch of people forming up like this. But certainly not mandated (not possible anyway).
The CT doesn't strike me as the be all end all (not sure if it was intended to be), just a neat theater and due to some things that it doesn't have (strat/field capture etc.) I still use the MA as well. I use the CT because it too has some things that the MA doesn't. I certainly see no reason why the CT should be given some sense of higher importance. Different settings, allowing different tactics and different play. That's all. Do with it what you see fit.
Bingo fuel. We use "Winchester" for ammo. Bingo is something predetrmined before we even launch. In 3 sorties we hit that twice.
Being near 16 friendlies doesn't make you any less alone. You think it does. It depends on what your definition of that is, but if you're yearning for historical flying then simply having uncoordinated friendlies in your vicinity without communication makes you very alone indeed.
"Wow.. this looks afully similar to "Its the MA with different settings and less pilots"."
Why the suprise here? And I didn't bring up less pilots - it's merely another arena with different settings - absolutely.
I'm not going to be dragged into some kind of semantics fight over this. Again, it's different, it's there, and make of it what you want.
-
<<<but then it would simply be one red bar for the other country to fly to. This exact same thing happened with zig's mission last night.>>>
I just don't get it. I'm at a loss here. Now the guy is upset because fighters flew towards fighters and an engagement took place.
I'm no expert on WW2, but I hear that fighters sometimes actually patrolled looking for the enemy and sometimes that ended up being another group of fighters and a furball ensued. Now I have the choice of an arena filled with all aircraft and an arena that will rotate between historically opposed aircraft. I personally prefer the latter but concede it may not be for everyone. I will appreciate this new arena even more when we have EARLY WAR aircraft. I really think we are seeing this arena as a baby but one day this is where the early-war flyers will congretate (but again, will not be exclusive to that.)
And though (it seems to me) the emphasis is taken off base capture in this new arena, bombers can still bomb and have fun. In fact, the bombing will probably be more realistic due to the defenses being able to adequately prepare themselves and get up to a good altitude making necessary a good fighter escort for the bombers. The bombing may not have as great an impact in MA, but then the destruction of fighters by fighters has no affect in any arena like it did in WW2 because this is not a war of attrition of aircraft and/or pilots.
Personally, I was looking for something that allowed historical matchups and now I have it. End of story. I do see a difference and I prefer the new arena. I see the new arena becoming more valuable in the future and will be more utilized as early-war planes are introduced. I want to fly a Wildcat and the MA will never be the place to have fun doing that. I'm now a happy person.
That's really my point and I'll stop posting in this particular thread. Bummer for you guys it's a boring workday for me and I've had tons of time to post here.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
-
I just don't get it. I'm at a loss here. Now the guy is upset because fighters flew towards fighters and an engagement took place.
Sigh...
flying towards the red bar in hopes of finding an engagement. Knowing that the red bar represents the only other fighters in the arena. Having to go there to find a fight.
There was an engagement all night last night. I musta got some 40 or 50 kills.
Once again.. how is this arena different from the MA? The planeset is it. And that's even being argued for the sake of historical matchup.
So is the fact that this was a killer furball somehow magically make it better than the MA? I've seen plenty of furballs there too. Mixed planes mixing it up in chaos. An organized mission met by the other side because they really had nothing else to do at the time. How is this different than the MA?
AKDejaVu
-
Deja... Is this thread called "how is this different from the MA"?
Nope.
Let it go here or start another thread for this. Better yet, give actual feedback. Your's is not constructive criticism, it is merely critisicm. Dunno what yer motive is but take it somewhere else if yer looking for a fight. Having to create a
thread on your very own (no matter how benign, like this one) and being at the mercy of folks like you aint as convenient as vulching in on a prefabbed thread, I know... but you're creative... I'm sure you can come up with something provocative.
This just gets so... tedious...
[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]
-
one benny you get from flyin in the CA is that MA is easier. Going back to long range icons and knowing the average pilot skill isn't as high as it is in CA. So far in CA, I haven't flown against an allied pilot whose skill set isn't 10x mine :)
thanks for the new arena HTC!
-
I just LUV CT :D.
[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: maik ]
-
You know whatr DJ if you dont like stay the diddly out.
Im sick and tired of your endless whining about things you dont like and just why they suck so much. You are one the biggest whiners in the game. You just hapend to whine against things changing and against HTC trying something, anything new and different.
So if it sucks so much for YOU DJ, stay the diddly out, NOBODY is forcing YOU DJ to play there.
YOU DJ, dont play it, shut diddly up and let people enjoy CT if THEY LIKE IT.
DJVU your pretty resonable most the time and seem a very good guy 1 on 1 in the MA but this pointless BBS whining of yours has gone way too far.
If you dont like CT dont play it.
[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: GRUNHERZ ]
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
sick and tired of your endless whining about things you dont like and just why they suck so much
A sentiment that I myself have felt many times about many different people with respect to many of the topics that have come up. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, eh Grun? :D
Here's an idea: Play the Game.
Let HTC build the game. Certainly all who can should contribute to that effort in a POSITIVE way. (If you can document an error, provide the information in a polite way, for example.)
... and just Play the Game.
(Toad goes off, singing "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in PURR-shreck HARRR-MO-KNEE!")
:)
-
You know whatr DJ if you dont like stay the diddly out.
Ah.. classic one grunhurtz.
Never said I didn't like it. I will maintain anyone calling it an "HA" is totally off their rocker.
All the talk about the feel of the terrain also cracks me up. I'm trying to remember a single (just one) dogfight that occured over land.
Im sick and tired of your endless whining about things you dont like and just why they suck so much. You are one the biggest whiners in the game. You just hapend to whine against things changing and against HTC trying something, anything new and different.
And I'm sick and tired of "If HTC would make this one change and force everyone to fly more historically, we'd all be more happy" whines that come from the likes of you. The truth is, nobody is going to fly historically unless they are sent to jail for any deviation from historical flying.
The whole idea of anything seriously historical is simply ludicrous in an arena setting. Yet, when one side starts to see something they don't like, they'll go to the historical card and cry for a change. The change is made and there is nothing more historical happening at all simply because you cannot change behavior.
So if it sucks so much for YOU DJ, stay the diddly out, NOBODY is forcing YOU DJ to play there.
And nobody is forcing you to post here. Yet, you do with such grace.
YOU DJ, dont play it, shut diddly up and let people enjoy CT if THEY LIKE IT.
I don't believe I've told anyone that they can't possibly be enjoying this arena. I don't believe I've been on channel one in that arena preaching "this totally sucks.. why are you here?" I've been playing the game and having fun.
I've been having the same fun I've been having in the MA... its really no different. I've almost thought about telling lazs to come over and check it out. If it weren't for the limited plane set, its totally what he has been looking for for some time. It is a furball arena that has somehow been dubbed a "historical arena".
DJVU your pretty resonable most the time and seem a very good guy 1 on 1 in the MA but this pointless BBS whining of yours has gone way too far.
Ahhhh... I have not even scratched the surface of pointless whining sir. For I am just one person.. not a legion of self absorbed know-it-alls about plane performance and historical accuracy that try to dictate every aspect of every arena to comfirm it into their own ideal world where the third riech actually won the war.
Really... I pale in comparison.
Oh.. that reminds me.. I need to post something in the He177 thread :rolleyes:
If you dont like CT dont play it.
Once again. I never said I didn't like the CT. And.. since you seem to need this repeated over and over again to get past that thick leather helmet... "THE CT IS NOT AN HA".. end of oppinion.
AKDejaVu
-
DJ, you need a woman in a bad way. You must be very frustrated.
Aren't there any women in Portland?
;)
-
Know what time it is kids?
That's right, it's time for the "Blatantly Obvious Remark Show"...
He's showing how hypocritcal people are when it comes to describing advantages/disadvanteges of this new (a-)historical arena versus the main arena.
That's all, but you insist on arguing with him that it is historical.
Hey look people, you can't shave a cat, chop it's legs in half and cut it's tail down to 3 inches and call it a dachshund.
-SW
-
Hmmmmmm, it's worth a try though.
Heeeere, kitty kitty.
Damn, where are my wifes cats when I need em?
StuB
Originally posted by SWulfe:
Hey look people, you can't shave a cat, chop it's legs in half and cut it's tail down to 3 inches and call it a dachshund.
-SW[/QB]
[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: DmdStuB ]
-
Stay the course. Keep the standards high by setting the proper example. Have fun.
I believe these represent the extreme limits of our persuasive powers in the context of on-line simulation or gaming.
The CT is a nice change, has potential equivalent to any other choices available, and, if you get tired of having your bellybutton handed to you, will cause some behavior changes in the nature of cooperative play.
No bugs to report.
I like all of you and I am a recovering board-a-holic. I don't pop off much.
Quit bickering and get back to setting the proper example, please. Noblesse Oblige.
Funked, I'm really sorry I missed flying with you. I always enjoy it.
Respectfully,
RR
-
.02 cents worth..
I love the concept. I immensely enjoy flying against historical adversaries in a setting more like the CA than a setting like the MA.
Sadly; I hate spitfires unless I'm clearing the six of one; and dislike LW A/C even more.
It's just me.. and I'm not trying to impose my ideals and prefences on anybody else...
But; :D
Last time I checked, the USA got into the war (eventually) and USAAF A/C started to appear over France... that's when I'll be in there.. every chance I can get.
In the meantime; if anybody needs a Buff pilot in the CA for Allied mission work; lemme know a day ahead of time.. and I'll be glad to help out.
<S!>
-
Don't worry Hang, Pyro looks like he's gonna use Funked's plane set scenario idea. USAAF planes will appear eventually. Don't know when each new set will come out though.