Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LTARogue on August 18, 2008, 10:37:53 AM
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Does anybody know or have the resources to find out the details of a B17/P39 training crash over Kingston, AZ. in 1944-45? The B17 navigator was my grandfather Roy Benbow and all crew members and the P39 pilot were killed. P39 was doing attack approaches on the bomber for trainig when he went through the wing causing all to spiral into the desert where even today there is still a pile of twisted wreckage. That is all I know. I guess info on the planes, crew members etc if its possible. Just throwin that out there if anybody can help. :)
LTARogue
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I found this one
http://www.aircraftarchaeology.com/P-39%20B-17%20midair.htm
doesn't sound like it's an exact match, but it might lead you to other sites with more info.
Good luck.
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Looks pretty close to the same. Kingman, not Kingston. The aviation archeology guys in Arizona are many and have most of the wreck sites covered.
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Hey LTARogue I got my son who lives in Kingman and maybe he could stop by the city offices or newspaper and check it out and see whats up . I will ask him about this .
nutte
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i bet that the airport there would have a list of all the crew members that where in those planes. might want to check there as well. also i am sure what ever was not given to family members would have gone to a museum.
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Jeez LTARogue, trying to give me a heart attack with that title?
At least reference the year of the crash you're talking about in the title. :P
When I saw your title I was afraid one had gone down today.
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I just joined the Yankee Air Museum and reading this subject line, almost had me in tears, as we have a flying 17G.
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Oh wow sorry about that guys....my bad. And it was Kingman...not Kingston.
LTARogue
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IIRC Kingman was a training base during the war. After the war a lot of planes were sent to Kingman to be dismantled, (cut up to make beer cans).
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Rogue,
Just something I found on the air base itself. Still looking for more.
Interesting side note. The article mentions that the base was used as a scrap yard for B-17s and other aircraft and that they scrapped everything down by 1948 and compiled over 70 million pounds of aluminum by the time they were done.
http://www.ctaz.com/~mocohist/museum/kaaf.htm
<S>
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Something else I found on Geocities. Does not mention who was involved, but on page 9 number 3 mentions a mid-air between a B-17 and P-39. Still looking.
http://www.geocities.com/sgtroc462/1944kaaf.PDF
<S>
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Rogue,
Just something I found on the air base itself. Still looking for more.
Interesting side note. The article mentions that the base was used as a scrap yard for B-17s and other aircraft and that they scrapped everything down by 1948 and compiled over 70 million pounds of aluminum by the time they were done.
http://www.ctaz.com/~mocohist/museum/kaaf.htm
<S>
Kingman 17's
(http://www.aviationexplorer.com/Kingman_Arizona_Bomber_Boneyard/Kingman%20_Arizona_World_War_2_Bomber_Boneyard.jpg)
"Dad's dog tags recovered from long-lost crash site"
http://members.tripod.com/~manchurianhitchcock/lasvegas.html
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Not to get off topic, but found this on Wikipedia. Almost makes on sick to see what they were sold for.
It is estimated that approximately 10,000 warbirds were flown to Kingman in 1945 and 1946 for storage and sale. Some sources report the number to be over 11,000. It is reported that at least 100 of the 118 B-32 Heavy Bombers built were flown there, many straight from the assembly line.
Most of the transports and trainers could be used in the civilian fleet, and trainers were sold for $875 to $2,400. The fighters and bombers were of little peacetime use, although some were sold. Typical prices for surplus aircraft were:
BT-13 $450
P-38 $1,250
AT-6 $1,500
A-26 $2,000
P-51 $3,500
B-25 $8,250
B-17 $13,750
B-24 $13,750
B-32 $32,500
Many aircraft were transferred to schools for educational purposes, and to communities for memorial use for a minimal fee. A Boy Scout Troop bought a B-17 for $350
General sales were conducted from these centers; however, the idea for long term storage, considering the approximate cost of $20 per month per aircraft, was soon discarded, and in June 1946, the remaining aircraft, except those at Altus, were put up for scrap bid.
The tens of thousands of proud warbirds that had survived the enemy fighter planes and fierce anti-aircraft fire could not escape the smelters at Albuquerque, Altus, Kingman, Ontario, Walnut Ridge and Clinton.
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The crash is listed at AAIR http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/AARmonthly/Nov1944S.htm taking place 11/03/1944 the pilot of the 17 is listed as Oliver E Wright.
You may be able to order the accident report.
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Pretty incredible prices there - a P38 for $1250.. Any ideas how much that would be in the today's currency?
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Pretty incredible prices there - a P38 for $1250.. Any ideas how much that would be in the today's currency?
Posted a thread about a pony for sale right now. They want $2.45 million for it. That should give a rough idea.
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Pretty incredible prices there - a P38 for $1250.. Any ideas how much that would be in the today's currency?
well if you consider that you could buy a new Chevy Deluxe between $1500 and $1800 in the late 40's early 50's; so if you can buy a new chevy today between $18000 and $25000 then I would guess that P38 would cost you about $15000 to $16000 today
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well if you consider that you could buy a new Chevy Deluxe between $1500 and $1800 in the late 40's early 50's; so if you can buy a new chevy today between $18000 and $25000 then I would guess that P38 would cost you about $15000 to $16000 today
Argh.. I don't have my resources in front of me, but I believe I saw that the P38 was $60,000 new. A current pricetag of millions would be appropriate.
<edit> Wiki says $97,000 in 1944.
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Thanks for all the help guys and it does appear that the Nov 3rd, 1944 crash is the one as there was nothing similar. Very sad in that there were 15 men lost that day but many of the gunnery students were on their last flight before graduation. It was interesting to note that the P39 pilot was actually a B17 pilot that was filling in and running the students through their drills. <S> all and thanks again.
LTARogue
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Well Kingman was a huge base as it had lots of room to play around in training and teaching . There are fields all over that tri state area ( Ca. , Az , Nv. )
My son tells me that there are plaques all over from many different things that happened there . Also pieces of planes are scattered across the countryside near Kingman , Az . from the many accidents that had occurred . interesting post Rogue , lots of info here .
Nutte :rock
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There appears to be a plaque at the Kingman AAF Museum commemorating the crash and the 15 men who died that day. The entire crash was also caught on film by another B17 crew and I would love to see that but would hate to see it as well knowing that all those men were doomed and that one of them was my Grandfather.
LTARogue