Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Geophro on August 19, 2008, 06:00:39 PM

Title: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: Geophro on August 19, 2008, 06:00:39 PM
During my research for the Italian Stuka, I ran across something that got my attention.
After the Italian surrender, a few of their remaining stukas were transitioned into the Italian co-belligerent forces.

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8461/ju87cobellplateeu2.th.jpg) (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ju87cobellplateeu2.jpg)

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6900/ju87cobelljpgsx7.th.jpg) (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ju87cobelljpgsx7.jpg)

There is also a report that 3 of them actually saw combat against German forces before they were scrapped.  One of those 3 just happens to be one that we have a picture of.

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3962/ju87cobellcombativ4.th.jpg) (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ju87cobellcombativ4.jpg)

Would this constitute a valid skin for submission?  I have always felt kinda silly dropping my German Stuka MOAB onto a German Tiger in the game.  Not silly enough not to do it of course.  If this were a legal skin, I would be happy to do it.
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: USRanger on August 19, 2008, 07:49:29 PM
That's the same model we have in-game, correct?
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: Motherland on August 19, 2008, 08:52:47 PM
Yup
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: lyric1 on August 19, 2008, 11:16:33 PM
 The no captured planes rule would apply here?
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: hammer on August 20, 2008, 07:06:09 AM
We have a Ju-88 flown by the French...

(http://www.netaces.org/skins/ju88a4/skin4.jpg)

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: lyric1 on August 20, 2008, 09:03:03 AM
Those French were on the Germans side for a while. So they are not captured planes.
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: FTJR on August 20, 2008, 09:32:12 AM
Lyric, I see your point, but I dont think that it would apply in this case, I cant give you a good reason, but I think this is different to impressing crashed aeroplanes into service. Did Finnish 109's fight German 109's ? for example  (disclaimer, i dont know squat about the Fin's vs the Russians vs the Germans). Or Israeli Spitfires against British Spitfires.

Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: hammer on August 20, 2008, 11:20:12 AM
Those French were on the Germans side for a while. So they are not captured planes.
Those Italians were on the allied side for a while. Also not captured planes. They switched sides when Italy capitulated.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: 1pLUs44 on August 20, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
Take notice the french plane has D-Day stripes on it....
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: Krusty on August 20, 2008, 02:02:53 PM
Captured implies taken from the enemy. These craft were given freely for combat use and were in use. The government controlling them changed, is all. They're not the only example where this happened.

Co-beligerant skins apply, IMO, because they weren't captured. They already had them, they just switched markings when they switched alignment.

No different than, say, going from solid cross above LW wings to just the cross outline. It was a decision to change the markings.
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: lyric1 on August 20, 2008, 04:16:46 PM
Captured implies taken from the enemy. These craft were given freely for combat use and were in use. The government controlling them changed, is all. They're not the only example where this happened.

Co-beligerant skins apply, IMO, because they weren't captured. They already had them, they just switched markings when they switched alignment.

No different than, say, going from solid cross above LW wings to just the cross outline. It was a decision to change the markings.
I would say this about answer's it. So who has some Allied 109 skins?
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: Krusty on August 20, 2008, 05:21:47 PM
Do you count Finnish 109s as "allied"?  :D


Luftwaffe controlled the 109s in Italy for the most part. When they left they took 'em with to the North and continued to used them against the Allies.
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: lyric1 on August 21, 2008, 02:25:03 AM
Take notice the french plane has D-Day stripes on it....
You know I never noticed that before on that skin,funny the obvious stuff you miss. Those French pilots had to be little nervous flying around in a German plane on D-day even with French markings.
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: lyric1 on August 21, 2008, 02:26:58 AM


Luftwaffe controlled the 109s in Italy for the most part. When they left they took 'em with to the North and continued to used them against the Allies.
I never new the German's maintained control of Italian 109's. See this game is so educational.
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: Motherland on August 21, 2008, 02:29:02 AM
I have never seen a Co-Belligerent 109. As far as I know all post armistice Italian 109s were with the ANR, which fought alongside the Luftwaffe.
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: Geophro on August 21, 2008, 07:40:26 AM
I concur.  The few references I have all talk to the 109's only being with the ANR.  I read through them again last night to be sure.

So if I ever manage to actually get the Italian Stuka finished, it sounds like it is worth a try to submit the co-belligerent one.  The transition from a base Stuka is relatively simple.  Check back some time next summer for an update.
Title: Re: Allied (co-belligerent) Ju87D Stuka
Post by: Krusty on August 21, 2008, 09:40:30 AM
I have never seen a Co-Belligerent 109. As far as I know all post armistice Italian 109s were with the ANR, which fought alongside the Luftwaffe.

From what I've read they were actually commanded by LW commanders, and even had LW pilots flying under Italian markings, for the most part.