Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Squire on August 22, 2008, 08:50:43 PM
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Frame 1 begins September 5th 2008.
Please update your squad level and ride preferences.
Link:
http://ahevents.org/european-theatre/the-dogs-of-war-belgorod-kharkov-1943.html
Writeup and details:
Operation "Polkovodets Rumyantsev" (literally: "Commander Rumyantsev", after 18th century Field Marshal Peter Rumyantsev), was a military operation conducted by the Red Army in its fight against the German Wehrmacht during World War II. The operation was conducted in the Belgorod sector, in the aftermath of the decisive armored clash at Kursk in July of 1943.
The operation began in early August 1943 and was aimed at following up the defensive success against Field Marshal Von Manstein's Army Group South. It was immediately successful, pushing back the German defenders and liberating the cities of Belgorod and Kharkov. By the early afternoon of August 23, 1943 the Soviet divisions of General Vatutin's Voronezh Front and General Malinovsky's South West Front had successfully liberated Kharkov from German forces, annihilating most of the defenders. It was the last time that the city of Kharkov changed hands during what the Soviets called "The Great Patriotic War". The operation led to the retreat of the German forces in the Ukraine behind the Dnepr river, and it set the stage for the liberation of the city of Kiev in the autumn of 1943.
At this stage of the war the VVS were being equipped with more advanced types like the domestically produced LA-5FN and the later models of the lend-lease US built P-39 Airacobra. This event will recreate the air action that took place between the opposing forces of the strengthening Soviet Fighter Regiments and the Luftwaffe's veteran JagdGruppen on the Eastern Front.
Country Percentages:
Axis 45%
Allied 55%
Field Assignments:
Axis Bishop
Allied Knight
CM Rook
OOB:
Allied (Soviet VVS):
LA-5FN (max 48)
P-39Q (max 48)
P-39D
Yak-9T (min 24)
IL-2 Sturmovik (min 24)
B-25C "glass nose" (min 12 *players*) with formations optional.
Boston III (min 12 *players*) with formations optional.
Axis (Luftwaffe):
Bf 109G-6 (max 48)
Bf 109G-2
Fw 190A-5 (max 36)
Bf 110G-2 (min 24)
Ju-87D Stuka (min 24)
Ju-88A-4 (min 12 *players*) with formations optional.
Rules and Restrictions:
All aircraft types must be used in all three frames with a minimum of 12 players per type unless otherwise stated. Bomber formations are enabled and CiCs should note they cannot be rearmed on a pad if used with formations (Aces High game restriction). The B-25C version must be the "glass nosed" bomber varient only. All normal FSO rules apply.
Scoring:
Aircraft Pts
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Twin engined bombers: 5 pts
All other aircraft: 2 pts
Ground Target Pts
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Small Field: 195
Medium Field: 266
Large Field: 384
VBase: 149
Ammo Factory: 275
Fuel Factory: 246
Radar Factory: 275
AAA Factory: 250
Grunt Factory: 200
City: 372
Headquarters: 544
Truck: 0.781
Train: 1.562
Arena Settings:
- Hungary Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons short (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 42,000 (about 8 miles)
- Tower range set to 42,000 (for display only to match the above setting)
- Haze/fog full visability (17 miles)
- Radar off
- Enemy Collisions On
- Friendly collisions off
- Killshooter off
- Time: 15:00 ( 3PM ) Game Clock
- Formations: On
- Bomber calibration: Auto ( MA style )
- Wind: 0-2K NO WIND
2-10K NW TO SE - Speed 5
10-18K NW TO SE - Speed 5
18-24K W TO E - Speed 10
24k+ - Speed 50 downdraft (Alt limiter)
Designer's Notes:
The B-25, Boston (A-20), and P-39 were delivered as Lend-Lease a/c in large #s to the Soviets in WW2 and were popular a/c with them.
You can contact all the squads on your side here:
http://ahevents.org/fso_email/mail_address.html
Please note the updated rules:
http://ahevents.org/fso-related/fso-rules.html
Design by Warloc
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SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!
Warloc, kudo's for contributing the time and effort for this! Been waiting for a eastern front FSO like this!
<S> FSO CM staff
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I LOOOOOOVE EASTERN FRONT SCENARIOS! :rock
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Can't there be tank fights too? :pray
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Here is a nice change a pace. WELL DONE!
MGD
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Can't there be tank fights too? :pray
In Soviet Russia, tank fights you!
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No second life for Ju-87 Dukas.....er Stukas? Oversite or intentional?
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A tank battle somewhere, does seem to have been fitting.
Wasn't that what the air war on that front was really about. Close Air Support vs Air Superiority. Rather than the attacking and defending of fixed targets.
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Arena Settings:
- Hungary Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons short (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 42,000 (about 8 miles)
- Tower range set to 42,000 (for display only to match the above setting)
- Haze/fog full visability (17 miles)
- Radar off
- Enemy Collisions On
- Friendly collisions off
- Killshooter off
- Time: 15:00 ( 3PM ) Game Clock
- Formations: On
- Bomber calibration: Auto ( MA style )
I have never seen that map and it's not downloadable from the HTC website.
P.S. We've seriously got to consider tanks for this scenario. I mean, an Ost front battle without tanks? :huh
:noid
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Hans Ulrich Rudel, the most decorated Luftwaffe pilot,with over 500 tank kills as well as innumerable ground targets destroyed, was a major player in this scenario. The Russians had a very high price on his head. Though he was taken down 30+ times by AA, the Soviet Air Force was never able to shoot him down. To make things even more interesting, might one Stuka pilot be picked to be Rudel as an added bonus? Looking forward to this operation! :aok
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I assume the Hungary map is something fresh and new. This is good because this'll open up a lot of snapshots!
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Hans Ulrich Rudel, the most decorated Luftwaffe pilot,with over 500 tank kills as well as innumerable ground targets destroyed, was a major player in this scenario. The Russians had a very high price on his head. Though he was taken down 30+ times by AA, the Soviet Air Force was never able to shoot him down. To make things even more interesting, might one Stuka pilot be picked to be Rudel as an added bonus? Looking forward to this operation! :aok
At this time Rudel would have been flying a JU-87G. <Cough> Yet another axis aircraft we don't have. :P
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Rudel was flying the Ju87G with the flak cannons loaded with armor piercing shells. Would be nice......
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A Pe-2, Yak 1 and 7 would be nice for this scenario as well.
Rudel was flying the Ju87G with the flak cannons loaded with armor piercing shells. Would be nice......
Ever seen that training guncam video?
Boom-Kiiiisssssh!
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Just going to quickly address a few questions here, from the designer:
The Hungary map is an older map that has been redone, I beleive it was 1st used in a Scenario a few years ago. Im sure it will be in the downloads area at some point, and the CiCs will have a map to send out to each side after they get the orders done. It has been tested offline and in the SEA and seems ok.
GVs, in this setup. It was a design decision not to include them this time around. Not every FSO is going to have them. Part of the reason is this is my 1st design in a few years, and I wanted to do something a bit more straight forward. I will consider adding GVs into future setups. I hope this wont dampen anybodys enthusiasm too much, I know a few players do like GV stuff.
2nd lives. None in this setup, they seem to play havoc in some frames, and I wanted to avoid that too. The Stukas and IL-2s only make up @ 10 percent of each sides setup (24 each), so its not like they are an overly large contingent. Even if you are tasked with flying them, you will only have to one of the three frames.
Hope that answers the points raised, there were a lot of design elements (a/c types, ratios, rules, ect) that were debated over at length, over many hours, before being finalised.
Regards.
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2nd lives are a pain. Never liked to deal with them much myself.
Even if you are tasked with flying them, you will only have to one of the three frames.
How will the CM's insure that?
If you have a CiC that puts out the orders late (has happened several times in the past couple months) and a squad that has already been assigned Stuka's gets them again I guess they bite the bullet. :frown: Would not make for a happy crew. Might be a difficult promise to keep in a bad situation. Personally I would put in the 2nd life for something like a Stuka just for situations that CM's can't control. My two cents for future thought, I am not asking you to change it.
Nice write up and setup Squire. I don't see much in the way of rust. :) :salute
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Not a guarantee, but CiCs should always, always, check to see who has already done attack/bomber duties in previous frames and share the burden fairly. I see no reason why a squad should pull Stuka or IL-2 duty more than once in this setup, as fighters make up at least 2/3 of both forces, with 220-260 players per side.
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I really really hope my guys get the P-39Q. :pray
My 'shade' account IS p39dweeb.... :pray :pray :pray
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Not a guarantee, but CiCs should always, always, check to see who has already done attack/bomber duties in previous frames and share the burden fairly. I see no reason why a squad should pull Stuka or IL-2 duty more than once in this setup, as fighters make up at least 2/3 of both forces, with 220-260 players per side.
One of the first things I do as CiC is look at what squads have flown in previous frames, Then I look at what they have requested. (on the AH events site)
That process takes about 20min, and almost guarantees that a squad is not going to get a "lame" ride more than once.
CiC's have all the tools they need, they just have to use them.
DD you have a PM.
:aok
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The A-20G was in active russian service as of May 1943. The russians actually flew more A-20g's then all other allied forces combined...lobby lobby lobby :D :pray :salute
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I'll take Il2 all three frames thx :aok
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Hmm, May 43 sounds like the USAAF ops date, I dunno about the VVS. They certainly had many A-20A/B varients in use, which is why I went with the Boston III. if it was a 1944 setup, no doubt the A-20G would b a possibility. Gimme a source if you have one, just for my own info.
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Operatational deliveries started in Feb 1943
I cant find anything specifically giving delivery dates for the USSR. The closest I can come right now is a link to the 8th attack Squadron in the pacific stating that its transition to A-20G's was delayed specifically due to the priority of lend lease and stating that almost all the initial 20mm versions + a large % of the follow up production was delivered to the USSR before US units were upgraded...
Most of the A-20G-1-DOs, as well as a large number of later A-20G variants were delivered to the Soviet Union.
http://8thattacksqdnassoc.tripod.com/WWIIa.html#Convert (http://8thattacksqdnassoc.tripod.com/WWIIa.html#Convert)
I did find a link documenting a russian naval A-20 was shot down by the germans near finland, it seems it had a female gunner so it was unusual. Almost 100% of the naval A-20s were G's but the article didnt specify. I did come across some lend lease stuff the collaberates that the initial production A-20G's did go to Russia but cant find the link now, it did not however give any delivery specifics...
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http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/geust/aircraft_deliveries.htm
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sterlikov/index.htm
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/photogallery/boston/index.htm
Picture in the bunch above dated May 43.
Anyone read Russian?
http://www.bellabs.ru/51/index.html
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Anyone read Russian?
Thanks to SD67 (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bellabs.ru%2F51%2Findex.html&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en[/url)
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Looking at the links in the past 2 posts doesn't seem to show the presence of solid-nose A-20Gs during July/August 1943 very much. Seems they were slow at getting planes where they needed to be after delivery, in fact. So maybe the US shipped them over on a certain date, but does anbody have anything that shows when they first started seeing widespread combat use?
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nothing concrete that I can find anywhere on actual deployment dates or locations...
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Ok, well, I do appreciate the look. I think I will just keep the Boston III in there for now. I looked myself too, and could not find anything concrete, which is why I decided to not include them this setup. Have no fear, im sure the A-20G will be back in a future FSO. :aok
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From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-20_Havoc
The A-20G, delivered from February 1943, would be the most produced of all the series - 2850 were built. The glazed nose was replaced by a solid nose containing four 20 mm cannon and two 0.50 in (12.7 mm) Colt-Browning machine guns, making the aircraft slightly longer than previous versions. After the first batch of 250 the unreliable cannon were replaced by more machine guns. Some had a wider fuselage to accommodate a power driven gun turret. Many A-20Gs were delivered to the Soviet Union. The powerplant was the 1,600 hp (1,200 kW) R-2600-23. US A-20Gs were used on low-level sorties in the New Guinea theatre.
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Here's another reference of an actual unit using them around this time.
Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47th_Flying_Training_Wing
The 47th remained active in combat during March and April 1943 while training for medium level bombardment. In 1943 the group was upgraded to the A-20G, which increased their forward firepower during low-level strafing missions. Moving to Malta, the group participated in the reduction of Pantelleria and Lampedusa (Operation Corkscrew) in June 1943 and the invasion of Sicily (Operation Husky) in July. The group also bombed German evacuation beaches near Messina in August.
The group supported the British Eighth Army during the invasion of Italy in September. Moving to Italy as part of the Italian Campaign, the group assisted the Allied advance toward Rome, Sep 1943-June 1944 at the battles of the Bernhardt Line, Monte Cassino, and Operation Shingle.
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Ham, your wiki link doesn't go into much detail about dates and models flown. It just says "in 1943" ...
The other link about the A20 also doesn't help too much. Delivered isn't "saw combat"
In the first-hand interview of the Russian before your reply, he's mentioned several times how hundreds of pilots, support personnel, and other people were being moved around, nobody knew what was going on, or when they would get any planes, that some of the planes spent a long time in the forward depots undergoing glass nose conversions for navigation, that after a long delay only one plane showed up for them to train on (they had not flown or worked on these planes before, had no supplies for them yet, had no combat practice, it was totally new) and even later after getting a small number of them it doesn't seem his squadron saw much action until late in 1944.
They had received brand-new planes, and were learning how to fly, fight, repair, maintian, house, and "function" with said new planes. Look how long it took the F4u to see much combat! Same deal: There's a difference between delivered and "used in action"
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I should have clarified somewhat. I am aware the A-20G was used by the Soviet VVS in WW2, and I have seen some in service dates with the USAAF (late 43) and the VVS (in 1944/45). Its a question of having them in a 1943 setup, on the Eastern Front. I will endevour to get better info next time around. Suffice to say, its a safe assumption that many, most? would have been the A-20A/B varients in 1943. Certainly the A-20A/B (Boston III) belongs there, so its a "safe choice".
PS: Took one final stab at it, and found decal sheets for 4 A-20Gs, all Russian. All of them were summer 1944 to 1945.
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Ham, your wiki link doesn't go into much detail about dates and models flown. It just says "in 1943" ...
The other link about the A20 also doesn't help too much. Delivered isn't "saw combat"
In the first-hand interview of the Russian before your reply, he's mentioned several times how hundreds of pilots, support personnel, and other people were being moved around, nobody knew what was going on, or when they would get any planes, that some of the planes spent a long time in the forward depots undergoing glass nose conversions for navigation, that after a long delay only one plane showed up for them to train on (they had not flown or worked on these planes before, had no supplies for them yet, had no combat practice, it was totally new) and even later after getting a small number of them it doesn't seem his squadron saw much action until late in 1944.
They had received brand-new planes, and were learning how to fly, fight, repair, maintian, house, and "function" with said new planes. Look how long it took the F4u to see much combat! Same deal: There's a difference between delivered and "used in action"
It just made sense that they received their new rides during the training. All other times mentioned in 43 they were flying combat. When planes were delivered they were done by the boatload literally. Most if not all new models were put to use very shortly after delivery. They didn't have the same mindset then since a war was going on. Either way I don't think it would make much difference in game.