Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Motherland on August 25, 2008, 02:54:43 PM
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OK Gang you Got your wish .
We will run Battle of Britain !!!
Here are the rules from '06 , these are not final for this year , there will be changes made .
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/rules.htm (http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/rules.htm)
Est. Oct-early nov for the frames .
Now here's what we need ... CO's ,XO's , Radar operators ...
Do you have what it takes ??? Post or pm us if you do. <S>
He111 next? Please? :pray
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(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x126/ScotRanger/HeinkelHe-111.jpg)
:aok Would definitely help the BoB scenario.
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He-111, Do-17Z and Ju-87B would be great for BoB and Battle of France scenarios. Early war is sadly neglected because of the MA influence.
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yeah, i want everything early war, (and late war)...(and mid War)....uhh, and all the armor....ohh...and artie
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Would be great if HTC did update 'packs' which covered each part of history. For instance, rather than have the bulk releases we have now with aircraft updates and additions all at once, updates would run continuously and be released whenever they are finished, update packs would see multiple aircraft added when they are completed which cover one area of history. For example, you could have "the Battle of Britain update" which would see the Do17, 111 and 87B added. Then maybe something like the "Battle of Kursk" pack, "Stalingrad", "Midway" etc. Each one would then start a scenario around the release date - which would be advertised beforehand. Would be very cool :D
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Ju-88G-2 please.
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The Ju88G was a nightfighter, and didn't serve in the BoB.
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YES! We need this!
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I second this motion!
He111 or CASA 1111, I take both!
And the Brewster, and the D520, and the Polikarpov I-16, and the Fiat, the Betty...oops, sorry, got carried away...
<S>
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Curious, which of the FIATs do you mean? CR.32, 42, G.50 or 55?
I'd like the 42 and the 50 personally :)
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Curious, which of the FIATs do you mean? CR.32, 42, G.50 or 55?
I'd like the 42 and the 50 personally :)
I WANT THE 42 :D :pray :pray
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YES He-111 (and D520)
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He111 next? Please? :pray
It should have been one of the first aircraft introduced in the game.
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My pants will be soiled when i look at the front page and see the new develoment shots of the He-111.
:aok
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Let me re phrase this then... What are the main reasons for the He111 again?
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IT SEXY
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its sexy and its Germany's main bomber, Over 7,000 made with many variants...
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its sexy and its Germany's main bomber, Over 7,000 made with many variants...
and the JU-88 isnt that good :frown: :frown:. plus we need more bombers :pray
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The HE-111 was the workhorse of the German bomber force it did everything and was modified to do almost anything. It went from front line bomber to test plane and could still go out to the front and give a good fight. It also had a decent bomb load, in my mind it should be going in very soon.
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The Ju88 is borderline too fast for BoB scenarios. The He111 was slower but much better armed. It was a workhorse bomber.
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Ok, Bubi got it, but let me make it even more clear:
Battle of Britain
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Ok, Bubi got it, but let me make it even more clear:
Battle of Britain
Fixed.
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Aww crap. :rofl
Normally firefox underlines spelling mistakes, but not for words with capitals I guess. :P
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Just be happy it wasn't biggles that found your mistake. :D
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Make sure to take a picture. :D
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The Heinkel will be fine for early war, and probably survivable in mid-war. We all know how busy those arenas are, so I'm sure it'll be used as extensively as a Spitfire or Pony.
Everyone wants the He-111, and I can promise you, when or if it arrives in AH, everyone will use it until they realize it's cannon fodder. Then it'll be relegated to the same backseat as the Ki-67.
It's slow, unarmed, and can't carry anywhere the payload of planes already in the game.
A single 7.9mm in the nose, another on the spine, and one, sometimes two (depending on the version) in the underbelly tunnel. These are the same 7.9mm guns everyone refers to as BB guns.
Sexy doesn't win battles with fighters.
J
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What you're missing is this plane's compatibility with the upcoming BoB scenario. Then we can worry about getting the heavies.
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We dont want the He111 because it would be uber. We want it because it would be used in a lot of scenarios.
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He111 could also fill in for many other early war, slower, lighter, bombers.
It was not all that well armed. Many had the side window 7mm guns removed, and not all had a MGFF in the front gondola (a position used for shooting at ground targets, NOT attacking aircraft). Overall it has 1 nose gun, 1 dorsal, and 1 ventral (all 7mm). Possibly (depending on version) it will have 1 7mm in a small side window on each side (sometimes removed) and a MG/FF 20mm cannon in the forward down-angle gondola window.
Not that impressive, guns-wise. Still vital to the planeset.
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Fellas, I'm not against it. I'd love to see Gloster Gladiators, Fiat Cr.42s, Brewster Buffalos, Polikarpov I-15s and I-16s...
But what drives this game are the late-war arenas. Those arenas are packed every night, packed with paying gamers, and lots of them. I understand it'll fit into the BoB scenario. It's not really a BoB scenario without it, to be honest. But then again, where's the Dornier-17?
My point is...HiTech is going to develop stuff that caters to the majority of their subscribers, because they pay the bills. I consider myself to be one of those 'historical geeks' who'd gladly play the Allied-Axis side if there were ever more than 5 people in the arena.
But it's a game, and one that's continuing to be developed by HTC because they have the market for it.
As often as it has been debated and shilled, what in your honest opinion, would draw more excitement from the AH community, a He-111 or (and I can't believe I'm saying this) a B-29?
The answer is, for better or worse, a B-29. Why? Because of the perception that the B-29 is a game-altering aircraft. The though of levelling a town with a single formation of aircraft appeals to gamers who, by nature, like to bomb things and blow things up.
Jeff
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Please don't bring up this junk again. I have a feeling HTC is laying off any attempts at making a B-29 for now because of its destructive powers and how many players have hundreds of bomber perks laid aside waiting to be devoured by a plane such as this.
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Fellas, I'm not against it. I'd love to see Gloster Gladiators, Fiat Cr.42s, Brewster Buffalos, Polikarpov I-15s and I-16s...
But what drives this game are the late-war arenas. Those arenas are packed every night, packed with paying gamers, and lots of them. I understand it'll fit into the BoB scenario. It's not really a BoB scenario without it, to be honest. But then again, where's the Dornier-17?
My point is...HiTech is going to develop stuff that caters to the majority of their subscribers, because they pay the bills. I consider myself to be one of those 'historical geeks' who'd gladly play the Allied-Axis side if there were ever more than 5 people in the arena.
But it's a game, and one that's continuing to be developed by HTC because they have the market for it.
As often as it has been debated and shilled, what in your honest opinion, would draw more excitement from the AH community, a He-111 or (and I can't believe I'm saying this) a B-29?
The answer is, for better or worse, a B-29. Why? Because of the perception that the B-29 is a game-altering aircraft. The though of levelling a town with a single formation of aircraft appeals to gamers who, by nature, like to bomb things and blow things up.
Jeff
Wow, you just don't get it. If it weren't for things like FSO I wouldn't bother with AH, and I think the same is often true for the people who have played a long time. Scenarios with lots of substitutions are awful and not even worth bothering over <cough Rangoon>. The Do-17 is also very welcome, but the He-111 should come first because it was more widely used and saw action in every theater of war that Germany fought in through 1945 (as a transport). That you bring up the lack of wishes for the Do-17 as some sort argument against the OP is a laughable smokescreen.
If we don't get the He-111 before the next BoB scenario, then it's not worth it.
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Planes are NOT only added to feed the MA. The scenarios and snapshots and events make up a LARGE portion of this game's appeal, and HTC understands this.
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It's the special events that extend the life cycle of a players' subscription. Without special events, a lot more resources would need to be spent on recruitment of new players as two years is about the point of boredom/burnout without them.
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Perhaps you don't get it...
Its not about what you, the individual, wants. Its about a balance of what will continue to drive the game, and revenue. Last time I looked, this was a business for HTC, not a hobby or a game like it is for us.
Yes, the He-111 is vital to the BoB scenario and early-war arenas. How many people, in the grand scheme of things, are going to participate in the scenario? 25%, 15%, 10%, of the total number of players? Will the LW arenas be empty like the early-war are now when BoB starts up? Will the He-111, by itself, make that difference?
Building a 3D model, doing flight model data, skinning, all take time. I know, I've done it for a living. I'm not saying that I don't want an He-111, but wake up to reality. Is HTC going to allocate resources to creating a plane that few people will use, or a plane that a few people are hyping up, only to find it's not that popular with the majority of the players in the game, in the overall game?
Denholm, you might not like to hear about a B-29...and I agree, it's probably too much of an airplane for the arenas of AH unless it's a high perk, but ask yourself, what would cause more excitement in the game?? There were a finite number of aircraft designed and built between 1939 and 1945. The majority of those built were already obsolete by the time they entered service. That leaves a handful of designs that were continually developed to maintain their dominance. And what does every player in this game want?? Dominance over his opponent. Practically all of the cutting edge designs are already covered in the game...the choices for new aircraft are running out, especially those that can create excitement amongst the players as a whole.
I agree that substitutions stink. As a military historian, Spitfires dogfighting alongside Fw-190s against P-51s should only happen in the Arab-Israeli war of 1948...Corsairs against Mustangs are Soccer War battles, not WW2.
But unless everyone plays the Allied-Axis arena (which no one does), it's a part of the game we're going to have to deal with.
This is not about history, or flying, or gaming. This is about business, creating and maintaining a product that is profitable and appealing to the customer.
My business professor in college (years ago) likened it to baseball...
You have $50 and one afternoon to spend watching any Major League matchup you like...what's it going to be? Yanks/Sox or Twins/Astros?
(This was at a time when the Yanks and Sox were dominant, and the Twins and 'Stros weren't).
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We think the He-111 is vital to HTC's business in the long term. That's where we differ.
It's the special events that extend the life cycle of a players' subscription. Without special events, a lot more resources would need to be spent on recruitment of new players as two years is about the point of boredom/burnout without them.
And you can't have a good BoB without the He-111. Therefore, to maintain the playerbase and long term profitability, the He-111 must be added. Q.E.D. :D
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The HE-111 was a very historical plane in the BoB and later on during night-raids. Implementing it would be a step forward suggesting that HTC will work onwards to later add more Axis bombers leading towards, possibly, heavy bombers.
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YESSSSS WE NEED THIS PLANE BADLY FORGET ABOUT THE B29 THIS IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!! :salute :pray :angel: :rock ill :cry if we dont get this :aok
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Not only BoB but Operation Barbarossa too.
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lol @ furball's signature
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The Heinkel will be fine for early war, and probably survivable in mid-war. We all know how busy those arenas are, so I'm sure it'll be used as extensively as a Spitfire or Pony.
Everyone wants the He-111, and I can promise you, when or if it arrives in AH, everyone will use it until they realize it's cannon fodder. Then it'll be relegated to the same backseat as the Ki-67.
It's slow, unarmed, and can't carry anywhere the payload of planes already in the game.
A single 7.9mm in the nose, another on the spine, and one, sometimes two (depending on the version) in the underbelly tunnel. These are the same 7.9mm guns everyone refers to as BB guns.
Sexy doesn't win battles with fighters.
J
The KI-67 is not "cannon fodder". Ive had tours where Ive averaged 3 fighters shot down for ever 67 lost. It is the most defendable bomber in the game, combining speed, manueverability, and climb. The thing is its so fast its hard for fighters to set up on you. Its the best bomber in the game if you dont count bombload. It is without question the best raid bomber. My faveorite stunt is to go into a tight climb on fighters setting up over me and spritzing them with 20mm. Ive had a lot of 262s look at my 67s and decide to keep on going.
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Perhaps you don't get it...
Its not about what you, the individual, wants. Its about a balance of what will continue to drive the game, and revenue. Last time I looked, this was a business for HTC, not a hobby or a game like it is for us.
Yes, the He-111 is vital to the BoB scenario and early-war arenas. How many people, in the grand scheme of things, are going to participate in the scenario? 25%, 15%, 10%, of the total number of players? Will the LW arenas be empty like the early-war are now when BoB starts up? Will the He-111, by itself, make that difference?
Building a 3D model, doing flight model data, skinning, all take time. I know, I've done it for a living. I'm not saying that I don't want an He-111, but wake up to reality. Is HTC going to allocate resources to creating a plane that few people will use, or a plane that a few people are hyping up, only to find it's not that popular with the majority of the players in the game, in the overall game?
Denholm, you might not like to hear about a B-29...and I agree, it's probably too much of an airplane for the arenas of AH unless it's a high perk, but ask yourself, what would cause more excitement in the game?? There were a finite number of aircraft designed and built between 1939 and 1945. The majority of those built were already obsolete by the time they entered service. That leaves a handful of designs that were continually developed to maintain their dominance. And what does every player in this game want?? Dominance over his opponent. Practically all of the cutting edge designs are already covered in the game...the choices for new aircraft are running out, especially those that can create excitement amongst the players as a whole.
I agree that substitutions stink. As a military historian, Spitfires dogfighting alongside Fw-190s against P-51s should only happen in the Arab-Israeli war of 1948...Corsairs against Mustangs are Soccer War battles, not WW2.
But unless everyone plays the Allied-Axis arena (which no one does), it's a part of the game we're going to have to deal with.
This is not about history, or flying, or gaming. This is about business, creating and maintaining a product that is profitable and appealing to the customer.
My business professor in college (years ago) likened it to baseball...
You have $50 and one afternoon to spend watching any Major League matchup you like...what's it going to be? Yanks/Sox or Twins/Astros?
(This was at a time when the Yanks and Sox were dominant, and the Twins and 'Stros weren't).
The thing is... we have so many late war planes already, if HTC adds many more, it's going to start getting redundant (if you don't consider our large amount of late war rides redundant already).
Either way, in the MA's the most popular planes are likely going to remain the Spitfire 8/16, P51D, La7, and the N1K2J. There are several great late war planes that we have besides those... that are better even... like the P47D40, 109G14, Ki84, F4U1A, F6F5 etc.... but those don't have near the popularity of the first 4 I listed.... they're about as good, and maybe even better, but they simply aren't as popular... why? Who knows. Those are just the popular planes and I doubt that's going to change.
The Ki67 is a good example.... people don't realize it, but, as rich said, it's the best defended bomber in game. It's simply not as well known as the others, so it doesn't get used. If we got the He177, or the Do217 or whatever, it wouldn't likely get used much either.
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JETBLAST,
The main reason for this aircraft is to balance out the other arenas and events i.e. AVA, SNAPSHOTS, Scenarions, FSOs etc. I must agree with the bretheren. This is not a MA aircraft. But it is for everything else. :aok
:salute
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Plus who says it wont be used in Late War, my squad is forced to fly JU 88s in late war as we are an only german squad. JU 88s get old after the first... hmm 3 years i have been flying them.
If we got He 111s you would see huge German raids with 88s, 111s, 110s, and escort. It would be awsome. Its not just to balance AvA/SEA, things that it would greatly contribute too, but you would see them in Late war too.
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Planes are NOT only added to feed the MA. The scenarios and snapshots and events make up a LARGE portion of this game's appeal, and HTC understands this.
, strangely though...the HE111 would b good for the Late War MA anyways, a ton of ppl yell for it in discussions on country in those two arenas. Personally, I'd love to fly it just for the fun (in the MA) :D
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Ducks quickly and asks for the P-61 :D
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Ducks quickly and asks for the P-61 :D
:lol
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(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/FCPs/l_74a1ba7030be0cc93bfbb77545e73edd.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/FCPs/Sig.gif)
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The He-111 was a part in the BoB so, in short yes, we need it badly
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(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/FCPs/l_74a1ba7030be0cc93bfbb77545e73edd.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/FCPs/Sig.gif)
:aok
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Oh please HTC can we have it? PLEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAASE? :aok
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Oh please HTC can we have it? PLEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAASE? :aok
say the serect pass word and then we can get it. :eek:
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Hmmm.
Would the secret password be MAKE THE THING ALREADY!!!! :D Probably not. Thought I'd try!
What would be the differences between the 111 and the Ju88? I havent studied the two that much. :salute
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In order to use it in various scenarios and historical events (for example, FSO), may we please have [two or three of versions of] the HE-111 added to the plane set?
Thanks very much, HiTech! :salute
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What would be the differences between the 111 and the Ju88? I havent studied the two that much. :salute
The He111 is slower and carries slightly less ordnance than the Ju88, but has a few more defensive machine guns.
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Just signing the petition.
First German A/C I ever saw in person was an He-111. Menacing and beautiful bird.
Bring the 111 to AH.
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The He111 is slower and carries slightly less ordnance than the Ju88, but has a few more defensive machine guns.
Quite a few more MGs, and some models had a 20mm cannon in the "Death tub".
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Ju88 has 4 rearward firing guns that can concentrate on the same target that sits dead-aft.
He111 has 2 guns that could do the same, and there's question of how high the ventral rear gun can aim upwards to track a con perfectly "flat" and with the curve of the fuselage there's question how flat the dorsal gun could depress as well.
The Ju88a4 had a flexible nose gun which we don't for some reason. The He111 has this as well.
The only difference is the He111 has a single 7mm gun in a very small window with narrow field of fire to the left and right of the dorsal position. These were ineffective and often removed in the field. The 20mm MG/FF had limited ammo and limited range of motion (meant for hitting shipping targets as the bomber flies over, if I recall?)
So as far as defenses go, the Ju88 is faster with more ord (while being faster) and more likely to defend itself if attacked.
He111 is in no way better than the Ju88. It is cooler, though, and more important for many scenarios.
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Thanks Krusty!
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He-111 is a must! The most (reasonably) requested bomber in the game!
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Hmmm.
Would the secret password be MAKE THE THING ALREADY!!!! :D Probably not. Thought I'd try!
What would be the differences between the 111 and the Ju88? I havent studied the two that much. :salute
Sorry for the double post, but... I bet the secret password is.... Sheep... :noid
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Sorry for the double post, but... I bet the secret password is.... Sheep... :noid
shh it a serect but i never tell. :O
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Ju88 has 4 rearward firing guns that can concentrate on the same target that sits dead-aft.
He111 has 2 guns that could do the same, and there's question of how high the ventral rear gun can aim upwards to track a con perfectly "flat" and with the curve of the fuselage there's question how flat the dorsal gun could depress as well.
The Ju88a4 had a flexible nose gun which we don't for some reason. The He111 has this as well.
The only difference is the He111 has a single 7mm gun in a very small window with narrow field of fire to the left and right of the dorsal position. These were ineffective and often removed in the field. The 20mm MG/FF had limited ammo and limited range of motion (meant for hitting shipping targets as the bomber flies over, if I recall?)
So as far as defenses go, the Ju88 is faster with more ord (while being faster) and more likely to defend itself if attacked.
He111 is in no way better than the Ju88. It is cooler, though, and more important for many scenarios.
What model are we talking about in the Heinkel?
Field of fire was improved as models went on, there was a remotely controled 7.9mm in the back of the H-series IIRC, etc. 20mm was for AA as well, IIRC.
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The Heinkel will be fine for early war, and probably survivable in mid-war. ...
Everyone wants the He-111, and I can promise you, when or if it arrives in AH, everyone will use it until they realize it's cannon fodder. ...
It's slow, unarmed, and can't carry anywhere the payload of planes already in the game.
A single 7.9mm in the nose, another on the spine, and one, sometimes two (depending on the version) in the underbelly tunnel. These are the same 7.9mm guns everyone refers to as BB guns.
It is rare to see a Spit Mk I or Hurri Mk I - armed only with BB guns - in the LWA's but you do occasionally. They are nevertheless part of the plane-set, apparently for historical reasons and not for their performance in the LWA's.
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Don't get me wrong...
I'm in favor of the He-111, for historical scenarios and early-war arenas...
But since the majority of the players are in the late-war arenas, would it not make sense to allocate the time and resources to something like a Me-410, Ki-45, P-61, SB2C, S-100 class Schnellboat, LST, towed artillery/AA/ATG?
If the next scenario after the Battle of Britain is say... The Battle for Singapore and Dutch East Indies , are people going to freak because we don't have Brewster Buffalos, Curtiss CW-21s, or Japanese Nells?
Probably not. I can understand people wanting this aircraft. Yes, it's historically important. Yes, it's iconic. But it'll only be useful to a small percentage of the players. If that's enough reason, then I'll be the first one to fly it.
J
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But since the majority of the players are in the late-war arenas, would it not make sense to allocate the time and resources to something like a Me-410, Ki-45, P-61, SB2C, S-100 class Schnellboat, LST, towed artillery/AA/ATG
Me410? Would be nice, probably see a lot of usage in the late war.
Ki45? Sounds like an EW bird... wikipedia has it's top speed at a mere 336 mph.
P61? Maybe, but it certainly won't be used in it's intended role, unfortunately (same with the Me410).
SB2C? For late war? lol.
are people going to freak because we don't have Brewster Buffalos
Yes, actually.
That's irrelevant either way, however, as the Battle of Britain was one of the largest aerial battles of the war and the Battle of Singapore was... well... not.
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But since the majority of the players are in the late-war arenas, would it not make sense to allocate the time and resources to something like a Me-410, Ki-45, P-61, SB2C, S-100 class Schnellboat, LST, towed artillery/AA/ATG?
And if HTC were to build only to this set of people, only allocating resources to the kids who t3h ub3n3$$ of late-war planes, they would lose a lot of the more rounded guys. While this won't have a big monetary input, the crowd who asks for these earlier birds is also the crowd who organizes and runs these snapshots, scenarios, etc.
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Ki45? Sounds like an EW bird... wikipedia has it's top speed at a mere 336 mph.
Ki-45 'Nicks' were used extensively as bomber destroyers during the '44-'45 bombing campaign of mainland Japan, armed with oblique firing 20mm, as well as 20mm and 37mm cannon in the nose.
SB2C? For late war? lol.
Why is that funny? It carried more payload, faster, and was designed to replace the SBD Dauntless. It was extensively used by the USN in '44 and '45, and replaced SBDs on all Essex-class CVs.
Yes, actually.
That's irrelevant either way, however, as the Battle of Britain was one of the largest aerial battles of the war and the Battle of Singapore was... well... not.
Regardless, at what point will you be satisfied? And finally, I'm amazed that Wikipedia can make anyone into a military historian. Course, we all know everything we read on the internet is fact...
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Never claimed to be. Looked up the stats on Wiki so I didn't have to scan through one of my books to get them... whether the Ki45's top speed is 336, 326, or 346, that's still painfully slow for a late war bird. And I know Wiki is often wrong, that's why I stated that I got it from Wikipedia in the first place.
It's a convenience thing.
Just looked it up again in a book I have, it states again the Ki45 Kai-C's top speed was 336 MpH at 16,405 feet. That and that the Kai-C was a nightfighter variant which made up 477 of the total 1,675 aircraft.
Why is that funny? It carried more payload, faster, and was designed to replace the SBD Dauntless. It was extensively used by the USN in '44 and '45, and replaced SBDs on all Essex-class CVs.
How many people do you see flying the Dauntless? If someone has a choice between the SB2C or the F6F-5 or F4U1D, guess what they're going to pick? The big, heavy, slow divebomber or the aircraft that becomes a very competitive late war fighter aircraft once you drop it's bombs?
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Regardless, at what point will you be satisfied? And finally, I'm amazed that Wikipedia can make anyone into a military historian. Course, we all know everything we read on the internet is fact...
Not everything revolves around uberness. We need some EW planes. Ive seen Hurri Is PWN P-51s and La-7s in the MAs. All it takes is a little skill.
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Some wikipedia articles are well researched, and some aren't. In my experience, the military hardware articles have a high degree of accuracy, and are well-cited (mostly because they have so little political content and no one is interested in messing with them). Whenever you see "citation needed," you know to take it with a grain of salt.
It would be equally silly to automatically disbelieve what you read on Wikipedia, too. ;)
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This thread was off the first page toooo long.
BRING ON THE 111 !!! ;)
:salute
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again off front page too long.
Dont tell me everyone is losing interest in the amazing plane. :(
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For great justice-!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Heinkel_HE111K.jpg)
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Dam your fast bubi. :lol
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(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/0916082147-00.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/0916082144-00.jpg)
Taking pictures of books with your cellphone FTW!
I'll upload some scans tomorrow.
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:aok :aok
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(http://www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Aircraft/Bombers/He111.jpg)
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Is HTC going to allocate resources to creating a plane that few people will use, or a plane that a few people are hyping up, only to find it's not that popular with the majority of the players in the game, in the overall game?
P39? :D
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HE-111 is the defining buff of BoB.
JU-88's were there, but .. they were the brand new hotrod ..tryin to catch them in a tail chase is almost impossible in a Hurricane, and a Spit is only marginally faster.
Even when you did catch an '88 .. it could blast yer spit outta the sky before your spitwads did much to it.
The 111 would be as hard or harder to bring down, usually taking 3 fighters in concert to do enough to bring one down. Heaven help yas if there was a 109 around .. or a 110.
With 111's, the defenders would have a chance of catching them once sighted. You'd have less of the 'grand tour' effect of an 88 raid.
Read some of the accounts of the actual sorties the Ju-88's took part in .. they just about raided with impunity, dropping their load, puttin the nose down, and pretty much gettin outta dodge scot-free.
-GE
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Bring on the Axis bombers! :aok
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He-111 in THE movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ysb5i-LBeQ&feature=related :aok
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He-111 in THE movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ysb5i-LBeQ&feature=related :aok
Jeeze... i msure those 111 formations were wishing they had the AH "Fire All" command on thier guns. :lol :aok
:salute
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Jeeze... i msure those 111 formations were wishing they had the AH "Fire All" command on thier guns. :lol :aok
:salute
They probably also wish they had icons so the escorting fighters could call for a 'heads up' to the appropriate bomber pilot.
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9 minutes of film and I didn't see a single Bf 109 or 110? :confused:
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9 minutes of film and I didn't see a single Bf 109 or 110? :confused:
:aok
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9 minutes of film and I didn't see a single Bf 109 or 110? :confused:
i noticed the same thing. :(
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He-111 in THE movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ysb5i-LBeQ&feature=related :aok
Hot! Even though they had Merlins :uhoh
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9 minutes of film and I didn't see a single Bf 109 or 110? :confused:
I saw several 109s. There are several sequences where a Spit is firing at the 111s and a 109 comes past to scare the Spit off.
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I saw several 109s. There are several sequences where a Spit is firing at the 111s and a 109 comes past to scare the Spit off.
Musta missed that. :cool:
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That was an incredible film. Its rather sad that directors can't invest a few more million to build some of those glorious birds to make a real WWII film, instead of this animated junk we have now.
Animation can come extremely close to capturing reality. But in the end, it never is reality.
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That was an incredible film. Its rather sad that directors can't invest a few more million to build some of those glorious birds to make a real WWII film, instead of this animated junk we have now.
Animation can come extremely close to capturing reality. But in the end, it never is reality.
Yeah, I love that movie. I lose the original disc ever two or three months, lol, but I keep a copy on my i-Pod just in case :)
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Well once again I was wrong. I just watched the movie and there are not any 109s around the 111s in the sequences of the youtube film I linked to. They did escort the group across the channel but once the 111s were engaged the 109s were not there.
Excellent movie! :aok
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Anyone recognise these?
(http://es.geocities.com/sagunto1937_1938/images/AP8B1980.jpg)
(http://www.europa1939.com/luftwaffe/bombarderos/he111.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/he111ereview_box.jpg)
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I'm guessing it's a Dornier.
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No, it has the same wing and aft fuselage of the He-111. It looks like a civilian He-111 with a glass nose to enable level bombing, maybe some of these were used in the spanish civil war?
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No, it has the same wing and aft fuselage of the He-111. It looks like a civilian He-111 with a glass nose to enable level bombing, maybe some of these were used in the spanish civil war?
He-111 B,C, and D. The nose we're all familiar with wasn't introduced until the He-111H.
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However, almost all long-noses were phased out before the LW entered the war with Britain. I read that it increased top speed noticably as well (the later nose, I mean).
I built that Roden model kit, too! :O
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More importantly, the new nose also noticeably increased the aesthetics of the aircraft.
:P
Those long noses are ugly!
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Liar! Liar!!
Hehehe, I think the long nose has a nice aesthetic flare to it.
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YES THE HE-111 ROCKS GO HE-111!!!! :rock :rock
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More importantly, the new nose also noticeably increased the aesthetics of the aircraft.
:P
Those long noses are ugly!
Agreed 100% :aok
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Liar! Liar!!
Hehehe, I think the long nose has a nice aesthetic flare to it.
like prewar planes
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9 minutes of film and I didn't see a single Bf 109 or 110? :confused:
Escorts overhead at 1:02. :O
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btw, for the mid/late war the 177 would be nice too..
Il love this bird!
(http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/he_177.jpg)
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I added the BoB to the top of my netflix list as soon as I saw that clip and watched the movie over the weekend. My conclusion? Don't sweat the clip. It's put together from many different scenes throughout the film, some more than an hour apart. On the other hand, there is a scene in the movie where He 111s from Norway attack northern England without escort because there's an assumption that Hurricanes and Spitfires won't have the range to intercept them from their southern bases. Needless to say, it doesn't go well.
The movie does a nice job of recreating the strategic moves and blunders of the battle. Specific emphasis is placed on two things: tactical warfare against forward fields vs bombing London, and free fighter sweeps vs close escort duty for the 109E. As much as historians will debate what really happened, the movie goes along with the "woops" theory, that it was a lost He 111 crew bombing London on mistake that began a chain of events that lead, eventually, to the Blitz. The English bomb Berlin in retaliation, Hitler gets mad, and orders that London be bombed instead of forward airfields, etc. You know the story. The decision exacerbates the range issue of the 109E because London is further away than the RAF forward airfields, the RAF regroups, and successes mount against the Luftwaffe fighter escort which is tied down low to the He 111s.
The aircraft I saw were (or were supposed to look like):
Spitfire Mk I
Hurricane Mk I
Bf 109E-3
He 111
Ju 87
No Bf 110, Do 17, or Ju 88.
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Most of us saw the film and weren't in need of a review.
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Hater! :P
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We keep getting 'cool' or 'significant' new planes - but I think HTC should consider balancing the plane sets for specific scenarios - especially with CT coming in 2 weeks time. (Sorry - bad taste :t)
Is there a scenario (e.g. BoB, Pearl Harbour, Midway, N.Africa) where we truly have a proper representative plane set? We have something close I suppose...? I know it would mean adding a few planes which aren't spectacular, but over time it would enable more realistic scenarios to be set up.
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Amen.
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Bump. :aok
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(http://www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Aircraft/Bombers/He111TakingOff230.jpg)
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Bring on the He111. Id fly it in MA and Scenarios. I hardly ever fly the uber planes anyway so the "lack" of performance would bother me this >< much.
Oh and the He177 is sexy too. Id love to have it :)
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Yes, would be brilliant for scenarios.
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(http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/justin/1087/WWII/Images/Aire/hecabin.jpg)
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(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/FCPs/Pre-FabHe-111.gif)