Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Xasthur on August 27, 2008, 06:14:01 AM
-
For all of you pilot types out there, this took place around the corner from my house today.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/cessna-420x0.jpg)
A student pilot on his first solo flight (pictured) collided with a Piper Warrior on his climb out from Moorabbin airport and crashed into a house (which was empty, luckily for them). The Piper Warrior was piloted by another pilot from the same flight school but had an instructor with him who took control and landed the Warrior safely with his port horizontal stabiliser missing.
Obviously the Cessna pilot died but no one else was injured.
-
Awww... As someone freshly out of student status, this story hits home vividly despite the distance.
Apparently both planes "had just taken off and were still in terminal control" link (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24249770-661,00.html).
I see that YMMB is a big airport (5x2 RWYs) and has a Class C CTR. I wonder if the controllers were busy with a lot of IFR traffic and had to let the VFR flights do their own separation. Where I'm flying (also a class C CTR), the controllers keep a sharp "eye" on student pilots doing their first circuits solo.
Blue Skies to that poor student pilot.
-
Sad.
The two-seater single piston Cessna, in which the lone pilot was killed, was registered in Australia on June 24 1976.
Media gaff, again as usual.
-
For all of you pilot types out there, this took place around the corner from my house today.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/cessna-420x0.jpg)
A student pilot on his first solo flight (pictured) collided with a Piper Warrior on his climb out from Moorabbin airport and crashed into a house (which was empty, luckily for them). The Piper Warrior was piloted by another pilot from the same flight school but had an instructor with him who took control and landed the Warrior safely with his port horizontal stabiliser missing.
Obviously the Cessna pilot died but no one else was injured.
dam, that's a crying shame!!
i remember my first solo. i was actuall scared to death, and constantly re-checking everyting while i waited for the 3 aircraft in front of me to go. then when my turn came, i self announced(non-towered field), re-checked that no-one was on base, wrong base, final, or wrong final, pulled out onto 01, centered her up perfectly, smoothly applied throttle, and as i became airborne, fear totally dissappeared. it was one of the most exciting days of my life. pulled off 3 very perfect landings that day too.
and yes, delsys....most towered airports around here(nj) keep close eyes on students, and first time solos too. when i did my forst towered airport solo, it was at TTN. it was very windy, and one of my landings went a bit long,. they realized i was going to have trouble making the taxiway they wanted me on, and immediatly cleared me for one they knew i could make with ease.
<<S>>
-
For all of you pilot types out there, this took place around the corner from my house today.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/cessna-420x0.jpg)
A student pilot on his first solo flight (pictured) collided with a Piper Warrior on his climb out from Moorabbin airport and crashed into a house (which was empty, luckily for them). The Piper Warrior was piloted by another pilot from the same flight school but had an instructor with him who took control and landed the Warrior safely with his port horizontal stabiliser missing.
Obviously the Cessna pilot died but no one else was injured.
Hey Arch
That was my first school the plane crashed next to , didnt realise you lived around there . I lived in Cavanagh.
-
Solo student flying is pretty scary sometimes. It sucks that this guy didn't get lucky. We had a couple of student solos come real close to each other in the last few months and yea, all of us IPs feel a bit sick because they were pretty close to becoming sad statistics. And the last two near-incidents I know of were cases where one or two students failed to clear their flightpath properly and nearly ran into another plane. In one case, pure dumb luck saved them and in the other, one guy saw the conflict and maneuvered to stay clear.
Sending someone solo is a hard decision. Crashing on initial solo is just sad.
-
I just saw it too Arch :(
I was dismayed that such a thing could occur but not that surprised when I read that both craft were piloted by student pilots. It seems the instructor beside the pilot of the Piper involved took control of the aircraft and brought it back in safely.
It is unfortunate that the plane that landed actually sustained the most damage in the collision incident. The Cessna appeared to be largely intact and crashed due to entering an unusual attitude following the contact that the student pilot on his first solo had neither the experience nor altitude to recover from. :(
Mind you it hasn't taken long for the media hysteria to get wound up and scumbags err I mean politicians are already falling over themselves to cash in in it at the expense of our already struggling GA industry.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/fiery-death-for-man-who-came-here-to-learn-to-fly/2008/08/28/1219516608662.html
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/student-pilot-killed-on-first-solo-flight/2008/08/27/1219516534027.html
http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/trainee-pilots-should-practise-in-bush-20080828-44m7.html
-
There have been a lot of air incidents these past months. Weird.
-
Solo student flying is pretty scary sometimes. It sucks that this guy didn't get lucky. We had a couple of student solos come real close to each other in the last few months and yea, all of us IPs feel a bit sick because they were pretty close to becoming sad statistics. And the last two near-incidents I know of were cases where one or two students failed to clear their flightpath properly and nearly ran into another plane. In one case, pure dumb luck saved them and in the other, one guy saw the conflict and maneuvered to stay clear.
Sending someone solo is a hard decision. Crashing on initial solo is just sad.
dude, you're a CFI?
then :salute to you, as i truely believe you guys have one of hte absolute hardest jobs in the country.
PLEASE PLEASE, do not take this as critisim.
if the students aren't able to clear themselves in a simple pattern, then i would think they're not ready to solo. it almost sounds like they're flying "inside" the airplane.
i'm anal about my scans. i'm almost outside the cockpit too much, but i've never had another plane any closer to me than about 3/4 of a mile. i never ever wait if i'm in doubt. i maneuver gently, and predictably, so when the other guy finally notices me, he'll know what my intentions are.
that being said, again, :salute :salute .
i don't honestly think i could ever do your job. you guys do not(for the most part) make anywhere near what you are worth.
<<S>>
-
dude, you're a CFI?
I'm not a CFI... yet... I guess. I'm a USAF fighter pilot currently assigned to Sheppard AFB as a primary flight training instructor. I've been flying the T-37 for the last year, and right now I'm transitioning to the new T-6.
I'm not sure what it would take to get my official CFI, but I think it would pretty much be a written test and a checkride with an FAA flight examiner since I have about 969 hours in the T-37 and about 900 IP hours. But I'm pretty busy at work most of the time and I have a new baby at home, so I haven't had the time or inclination to get my CFI. Maybe when I retire or if my last assignment is a desk job...
-
I'm not a CFI... yet... I guess. I'm a USAF fighter pilot currently assigned to Sheppard AFB as a primary flight training instructor. I've been flying the T-37 for the last year, and right now I'm transitioning to the new T-6.
I'm not sure what it would take to get my official CFI, but I think it would pretty much be a written test and a checkride with an FAA flight examiner since I have about 969 hours in the T-37 and about 900 IP hours. But I'm pretty busy at work most of the time and I have a new baby at home, so I haven't had the time or inclination to get my CFI. Maybe when I retire or if my last assignment is a desk job...
congrats on your baby sir!
and i now think you have an even harder job.....and are probably more underpaid.
<<S>> and thank you for what you do for the rest of us sir!
-
I'm not a CFI... yet... I guess. I'm a USAF fighter pilot currently assigned to Sheppard AFB as a primary flight training instructor. I've been flying the T-37 for the last year, and right now I'm transitioning to the new T-6.
I'm not sure what it would take to get my official CFI, but I think it would pretty much be a written test and a checkride with an FAA flight examiner since I have about 969 hours in the T-37 and about 900 IP hours. But I'm pretty busy at work most of the time and I have a new baby at home, so I haven't had the time or inclination to get my CFI. Maybe when I retire or if my last assignment is a desk job...
You've been flying Tweets for about a year? How much hearing have you lost? I said 'HOW MUCH HEARING HAVE YOU LOST??'
Man they are loud.
-
WHAT? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
-
I must post a correction.
It seems the Cessna did sustain some damage in the initial collision to the outer left wing, creasing the leading edge. This certainly would have made it difficult to fly. In any case the poor guy did not have enough altitude to recover from the spiral his aircraft ended up in after the contact. :(
-
I must post a correction.
It seems the Cessna did sustain some damage in the initial collision to the outer left wing, creasing the leading edge. This certainly would have made it difficult to fly. In any case the poor guy did not have enough altitude to recover from the spiral his aircraft ended up in after the contact. :(
Isn't the horizontal stabilizer hit as well? or is it just a reflection? Maybe the elevator was jammed?
<edit>whops.. not vertical.
-
Awww... As someone freshly out of student status, this story hits home vividly despite the distance.
Apparently both planes "had just taken off and were still in terminal control" link (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24249770-661,00.html).
I see that YMMB is a big airport (5x2 RWYs) and has a Class C CTR. I wonder if the controllers were busy with a lot of IFR traffic and had to let the VFR flights do their own separation. Where I'm flying (also a class C CTR), the controllers keep a sharp "eye" on student pilots doing their first circuits solo.
Blue Skies to that poor student pilot.
even if the controllers were busy with IFR traffic, they should've been paying a bit more attention to 2 students in the pattern.
do they do NTSB style investigations down there?
-
They do CAP.
The horizontal on the Piper was almost destroyed. the entire left stab. and elevator were a mangled mess. It appears the aircraft crossed paths with the left wingtip of the Cessna impacting the Pipers tail.
I know how quickly things get big fast in a situation like this and with a pair of student pilots, particularly the solo one, they may well have been preoccupied inside their cockpits and not noticed the other aircraft until it was too late.
Trust me, that speck out in the distance may not appear to be moving at all when you first look at it. It may in fact be an aircraft on an intercept course. If you do not immediately recognise that could be the case and pay careful attention to it, the next time you look up it could be filling your windscreen.
-
Rule #1- Fly the plane
Back in the 50s, an F-86 was doing a radar intercept on a B-50 tanker. The F-86 pilot actually rammed the tailed the tanker, causing both planes to crash, because he was looking at his radar screen.
-
eagl, the cfi stuff for military guys is the same as civilian. Have to get the same training. The stuff before it is pretty easy. Mainly a sign off and blessing.
My brother-in-law added his cfi-cfii-mei after he retired from the marines. He taught in t-34s in Corpus. He never really has used it but has um. He is currently flying 777s. I am in the middle of my cfi courses.
-
They do CAP.
The horizontal on the Piper was almost destroyed. the entire left stab. and elevator were a mangled mess. It appears the aircraft crossed paths with the left wingtip of the Cessna impacting the Pipers tail.
I know how quickly things get big fast in a situation like this and with a pair of student pilots, particularly the solo one, they may well have been preoccupied inside their cockpits and not noticed the other aircraft until it was too late.
Trust me, that speck out in the distance may not appear to be moving at all when you first look at it. It may in fact be an aircraft on an intercept course. If you do not immediately recognise that could be the case and pay careful attention to it, the next time you look up it could be filling your windscreen.
i think you may be exactly right. the solo student, was probably inside trying to be perfect. the student/cfi were probably going over something, and also spending too much time inside.
i know how fast things can get big. like i said, i've never let another within 1/2 or 3/4 of a mile of me. i have had to avoid a few, including twice in the patterns. once t the fllying w, once at south jersey regional. the second one was beyond stupid. i had made my call to depart runway 26, closed pattern. not 10 seconds later this guy(barley understandable english) calls on the 45 for 08. we immediatly told him 26 was the active. he repeated himself. on crosswind, i saw him on downwind for 08, so i called him telling him i was exiting the pattern to the north.
don'tcha know that stupid%^$& turns on an intercept course for me??????
anyway, i avoided him easily.
hope no more bad comes of this. politicians like things like this to try to close airports.
<<S>>
-
eagl, the cfi stuff for military guys is the same as civilian. Have to get the same training. The stuff before it is pretty easy. Mainly a sign off and blessing.
My brother-in-law added his cfi-cfii-mei after he retired from the marines. He taught in t-34s in Corpus. He never really has used it but has um. He is currently flying 777s. I am in the middle of my cfi courses.
:salute
you're choosing a tough career.
-
hope no more bad comes of this. politicians like things like this to try to close airports.
Oh they are already trying. I'm sure there is no shortage of developers plying the council with the prospect of oodles of cash already.
-
Oh they are already trying. I'm sure there is no shortage of developers plying the council with the prospect of oodles of cash already.
if i had a web cam, you'd see the :O look on my face. well, not really.
they're building a 12 house development right under our pattern at VAY, it's about where i'm at 500ft turning upwind to crosswind. i'm sure those new residents aren'tgoing to complain at all,
<<S>>
-
not really a career, least not right now. Industry blows goats at the moment. Just getting it to put in my back pocket for insurance purposes.
-
Same here, can't guarantee skydive flying as a career. So starting my Instructor rating in a couple of weeks (finally). You will always get some work as an Instructor. I hope I'm starting that is, it's not guaranteed that I will even be accepted for the course. The letter I got from the school pointed out that this will be one of the most difficult and challenging I will complete. It starts with a flight test and assessment and then a three week ground school. There are so many requirements. I think Eagl would feel at home :salute
But when you see incidents like those noted here. You can see why it's important.