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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mechanic on August 27, 2008, 10:40:04 AM

Title: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: mechanic on August 27, 2008, 10:40:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag5ut3tP3ZM&feature=related


Very sad but notice how similar it looks to what happens when you lose it in AH2. He loses the back end and then is fighting the gyration whilst trying to point the nose down and regain AoA. Almost made it. This is very familliar if you have ever flown the AH2 mossy. good job on the model HTC.

A humble S! and prayer to the pilot and family.
 :(
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: SkyRock on August 27, 2008, 10:49:46 AM
 :salute to pilot
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: Redlegs on August 27, 2008, 10:52:31 AM
 :salute
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: Yenny on August 27, 2008, 10:53:48 AM
 :salute
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: VWE on August 27, 2008, 11:10:54 AM
I hear lots of complaints, not saying you are complaining, about the fubar flight model of our mossi. I've never had a problem with its stall and spin tendencies, very easily managed... heck I'll even put her into a spin to get that last second of nose on target kill shot. Last months mid-war tour I went 60 for 12 in it.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: mechanic on August 27, 2008, 11:15:11 AM
maybe i was not clear, i am commending HTC's model, as it seems just like this real life clip.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: VWE on August 27, 2008, 11:18:23 AM
Ah, my misstake... not often you see a possitive comment made of the htc mossi.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: thrila on August 27, 2008, 11:19:17 AM
I believe the cause of the crash was the loss of power in one if it's engines.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: scot12b on August 27, 2008, 11:19:50 AM
Man(http://img117.exs.cx/img117/6721/o4fsad.gif)
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: mechanic on August 27, 2008, 11:23:12 AM
I believe the cause of the crash was the loss of power in one if it's engines.


 You can hear him cut the power after the first spin to try and stop the gyration.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: JohnnyT on August 27, 2008, 11:28:57 AM
I saw a Fairey Firefly crash at Duxford 2 or 3 years ago. The end of that clip reminded me, as the commentator said 'we've all seen what happened..' Same thing was said at Duxford. I was due for a Tigermoth flight after the display, so I got an aerial view of the wreckage. Never a pleasant thing to watch.

As for the flightmodel, I remember the earlier issues with stalls and loss of control, now happily fixed since the update.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: infowars on August 27, 2008, 12:02:23 PM
 :salute
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: xNOVAx on August 27, 2008, 12:16:23 PM
 :cry

 :salute
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: waystin2 on August 27, 2008, 12:18:23 PM
Not the way that pilot and cool old bird should have ended their careers!

 :salute
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: sunfan1121 on August 27, 2008, 12:20:11 PM
Not the way that pilot and cool old bird should have ended their careers!

 :salute
X2 :salute
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: Fender16 on August 27, 2008, 12:32:43 PM
Worst part is he nearly had it recovered. Just not enough alt.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: Noir on August 27, 2008, 12:49:23 PM
I believe the cause of the crash was the loss of power in one if it's engines.

Sounds logical, I don't believe a mossie would have flat stalled that easily. However he lost that power at a very critical time, just on top of that climb  :frown:

 :salute to the pilot
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: BaldEagl on August 27, 2008, 12:51:47 PM
Worst part is he nearly had it recovered. Just not enough alt.

That's what I noticed too.  He almost had it.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: Solar10 on August 27, 2008, 01:22:15 PM
<S> To the pilot

The Mosquito is one of the most beautiful aircraft built and certainly in the game today. 

That spin is very typical of what I have experienced in game when you loose an engine at low speed.  Since the remodel the stall is much easier to handle and much harder to get into.  It is now possible to float it at about 80 at the top of climbs, and hammer heads a pretty easy if you get the timing right.  I've managed to surprise a few P38s that way but it is still not as good as a 38 in the verticle.

180 kills for 62 deaths.  btw, my favorite task this tour is breaking caps at vulched fields in it.  At least 30 of those deaths are down to that.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: colmbo on August 27, 2008, 02:13:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag5ut3tP3ZM&feature=related


Very sad but notice how similar it looks to what happens when you lose it in AH2. He loses the back end and then is fighting the gyration whilst trying to point the nose down and regain AoA. Almost made it. This is very familliar if you have ever flown the AH2 mossy. good job on the model HTC.

A humble S! and prayer to the pilot and family.
 :(

He didn't "lose the back end", he lost the left engine at low airspeed...bad thing to have happen.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: mechanic on August 27, 2008, 02:57:35 PM
right, i didnt know it was engine failiure when i first posted. This has happened to me many times when an engine dies in the middle of a fight. 1 engine mosquito is virtualy useless.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: morfiend on August 27, 2008, 09:53:13 PM
Mech :

 your obsevations are pretty close,except for the loss of engine!!

 The mossie did suffer from"losing it's tail" this could have been fixed,
 but was seen as not really needed.

 An old RCAF mossie driver told me that if you were"heavy footed" the
 woodie would bite you.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: trigger2 on August 27, 2008, 11:58:48 PM
Worst part is he nearly had it recovered. Just not enough alt.

I know, it looks like maybe 100 feet more alt. he woulda had it under control... .

:salute to the pilot and their family...


and... :salute to HTC for the very accurate modeling.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: A8TOOL on August 28, 2008, 12:04:44 AM
I thought I was going to be watching a recovery..... not a death   :(

Didn't really need to watch that

My mistake for not reading it fully first
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: mechanic on August 28, 2008, 12:22:27 AM
to live at all is certain death, what matters to most of us is what happens in the middle. this guy spent his life taking the risk of flight and enjoying the benifits that come with that risk. his life was not wasted and finally he paid the ultimate price for the love of his life. there is something noble in death when the life was always laughing in deaths face so defiantly. yes its distressing also and im sorry i wasnt more clear A8tool.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: Yossarian on August 28, 2008, 02:52:22 AM
<S> and prayers to all those involved.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: Overlag on August 28, 2008, 03:04:57 AM
<S>
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: SKYGUNS on August 28, 2008, 05:17:13 AM
Worst part is he nearly had it recovered. Just not enough alt.

you gotta hate that, so close to success and then failure slaps you in the face...


 :salute to the pilot
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: Charge on August 28, 2008, 06:17:37 AM
"You can hear him cut the power after the first spin to try and stop the gyration."

You can also hear a bang coming from the engine. It is possible that the other engine had a slight malfunction when he went inverted so he nearly immediately cut power to counter the destabilizing effect.

"Sounds logical, I don't believe a mossie would have flat stalled that easily."

If you look at the fuselage profile of a Mossie and the size of its vertical stabilizer I do not wonder at all that it behaves like that if the power is lost from one engine in a difficult flight state. I also remember reading that normally one engine flight was not a problem for Mossie.

-C+


Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: save on August 28, 2008, 07:42:28 AM
"I saw a Fairey Firefly crash at Duxford 2 or 3 years ago."

One of the crew members was a Warbirds player:  'seadog' and his brother was a warbirds trainer  '=rix==' :(

Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: mechanic on August 28, 2008, 07:46:22 AM
"You can hear him cut the power after the first spin to try and stop the gyration."

You can also hear a bang coming from the engine. It is possible that the other engine had a slight malfunction when he went inverted so he nearly immediately cut power to counter the destabilizing effect.

"Sounds logical, I don't believe a mossie would have flat stalled that easily."

If you look at the fuselage profile of a Mossie and the size of its vertical stabilizer I do not wonder at all that it behaves like that if the power is lost from one engine in a difficult flight state. I also remember reading that normally one engine flight was not a problem for Mossie.

-C+





for sure, one engine flight is not a problem maybe if you are expecting it, but you lose an engine in any type of vertical turn it is bad news. talking purely of our virtual mossy that is.
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: dtango on August 28, 2008, 11:57:31 AM
The Barten crash report has been posted in the past before.  Here it is for reference:

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_501355.pdf

The conclusion was that the left engine unexplicably lost power somewhere near the apex of the wingover.  No conclusive proof of the loss of power was determined but the circumstantial evidence suggests that the left carburetor was partly the culprit.

The report theorizes the "bang" heard was related to the rapid reduction of power by the pilot to arrest the left yaw due to assymtric prop effects at the apex of the wing-over.  At any rate the left engine lost power going into the apex prior to the "bang".

The video is an example of what happens if you put a plane in a low airspeed situation in an odd orientation.  This leads easily to a deeply stalled aircraft because the aircraft easily and very quickly transitions from aoa for normal flight to well beyond critical aoa in a blink of an eye (in this case aoa to 90 degrees relative to the wing in about a second after the peak of the apex).  The point is that anytime you're in a low airspeed situation like this in the vertical you can end up deeply stalled --- power failure not withstanding.

------
Anytime I see a crash like this I'm horrified by it and always get a lump in my throat knowing that lives were lost.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: SmokinLoon on August 28, 2008, 07:46:26 PM
  :salute to the pilot and Mossi.  Sad to lose them both.   :frown:

I think the handling characteristics are modelded correctly from what I have read (and seen), but the FB Mk VI we have in the game is still 5-15mph too slow depending on the alt.  Multiple thread have pointed out the errors with legit proof.  Lets hope HTC eventually takes the 15 minutes to read, verify, and change the Mossi to the correct speeds.   ;)   
Title: Re: Mosquito stalls and spins.
Post by: bozon on August 29, 2008, 12:43:33 PM
I think the handling characteristics are modelded correctly from what I have read (and seen), but the FB Mk VI we have in the game is still 5-15mph too slow depending on the alt.  Multiple thread have pointed out the errors with legit proof.  Lets hope HTC eventually takes the 15 minutes to read, verify, and change the Mossi to the correct speeds.   ;)   
Also the elevator feels anemic. It is as if we are flying with the stall limiter on, or as if the elevator is connected to the stick with rubber bands.