Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on December 20, 2000, 09:31:00 AM

Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 20, 2000, 09:31:00 AM: Hi

Do you think your flightsim experience like in AH would be of any use whatsoever if somehow you ended up in a WW2 air battle (provided that you got basic WW2 pilot training). Would you make begginers mistakes like trying to outurn Zeros in a P40, or climbing with zooming 109 or 190? Could you actually hit anything? Could you actually do a good boom-and-zoom attack, or do a good scissors fight vs that 190? And so on. Lets have some fun with this and see just how you think your flightsim skills would help?

thanks GRUNHERZ
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Ripsnort on December 20, 2000, 09:38:00 AM: 100 sit-ups on an incline board, with a 45 lb. weight on me chest, 3 times a week...I think I'd be able to handle the G loads!

As to combat, I'm not sure. I've done well in 'panic mode' situations before, having a gun pulled on me a few times, and shot at me once.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: LePaul on December 20, 2000, 09:49:00 AM: Is there a cup holder in a real F4 for my beer? Opps, they'd frown on that...

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Paul
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: danish on December 20, 2000, 10:51:00 AM: Like s***, would be too afraid to die.

danish
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: TheWobble on December 20, 2000, 11:24:00 AM: I wouldent take on any of the aircraft in this game with anything less than an f-18 in real life.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Apache on December 20, 2000, 11:28:00 AM: I would do pretty good I think. I would simply jump in a P51, alt-monkey for a couple of hours and if I did get bounced, I would run like a girlyboy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).

------------------
Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)

[This message has been edited by Apache (edited 12-20-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Ripsnort on December 20, 2000, 11:33:00 AM: ROTFLOL Apache!
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Swager on December 20, 2000, 03:59:00 PM: There were the hunters and the one secretly knew they were going to get hunted. I would of fallen into the latter.

Know my luck, my first opponent would of been someone like Heinz Bar, "Wutz" Galland, or Karl Borris!

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: danish on December 20, 2000, 04:07:00 PM: Not to speak badly about the dead, but Karl Boris would give you some room.Just fly agressivly and he would run.Of course he could also set his kaczmarek up as bait, let you kill him and then get you..
But ok he survived the war, a remarkably thing it itself as he was engaged from day one.

danish

PS: and no I cannot quote anything, but those lines between the lines..
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: -ammo- on December 20, 2000, 04:28:00 PM: Depends... Did they have icons?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

(http://home.nc.rr.com/ammo/public.html/unw_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Torque on December 20, 2000, 04:33:00 PM: As to combat, I'm not sure. I've done well in 'panic mode' situations before, having a gun pulled on me a few times, and shot at me once.Oh my God no way really?

Marriage is HELL Rip.

I would be scared fecal less, the thought of people shooting metal projectiles to disfigure me.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: mrbeef on December 20, 2000, 05:28:00 PM: if were ever attacked by something i would bail out and hope the canopy shoots out with my chair
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: RAM on December 20, 2000, 05:39:00 PM: When I was 18 I faced three elkarri (pro-HB) guys. As my mouth is as big as it is, and I dont use to shut up what I think, they beat the hell outta me. Ended with a broken leg, fisures in an arm and severely blacked out eyes. I still think I was lucky.

I would do it again, if I face those three abnomals yelling "gora ETA". But this time I'd not be alone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

(you dont know what is HB in USA, but lets say they are the ETA's Sinn Fein...Elkarri is something like an "ETA-jugend", being ETA a radical terrorist group in the line of IRA...but without a real excuse)

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-20-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: easymo on December 20, 2000, 05:49:00 PM: Would have to carry a spare flightsuit with me, for those uuhh Accidents;D

This is no small matter BTW. Ill tell you a RL war story.

I was on guard duty one night. I and a partner were in a bunker, guarding a supply depot. Some stray rounds thudded into the sandbags, and he relived himself into his jungle fatigues. It was monday (malaria pill day) and he had the trots. Well, after a couple of hours in this 8x10, airless bunker. I was ready to shoot the bastard myself and drag his body out side (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 12-20-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Pongo on December 20, 2000, 07:08:00 PM: The bad habits you get in AH would probably kill you faster than any edge you gained from all the deflection practice.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: eskimo on December 21, 2000, 01:10:00 AM: I think that most of us regulars whould have done very well with all of our virtual practice.
With out it, I'm sure I would have killed myself in basic flight training.

eskimo
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Pepino on December 21, 2000, 01:57:00 AM: RAM, ETA is not Sinn Feinn. ETA is IRA without historical and political background.

Pepe
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Naso on December 21, 2000, 02:54:00 AM: Q: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?

A: Probably be downed, and die. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Creamo on December 21, 2000, 03:07:00 AM: Do you think your flightsim experience like in AH would be of any use whatsoever if somehow you ended up in a WW2 air battle (provided that you got basic WW2 pilot training).

Absolutely.

It's the same reason why top Nascar drivers like Dale Jr. and a few others say playing NASCAR on their computers in fact was a benefit to them and they use it to acquire patience, learning tracks off season, and other such skills. I've read many articles where they praise racing simulations helping them. Of course they always say that it never "feels" like the real car, but there are many little lessons to be learned just the same.

As for combat sims, certainly formation flying, and wingmen tactics, ACM, BFM etc.. could be learned by getting into the situations over and over and over, ultimately gaining knowledge of tactics and fine tuning of skills. Had someone explained to me what "Boom and Zoom" was all about on paper, I would have not gotten it. My first time in a 190 that I barreled in and turned with a Spit, I was toast. The simulated environment taught a great lesson that paper could not have, or in real life would have been the end.

Another example- Although that stormy approach into O'hare in FlightSim 2000 isn't going to be pitching you up and down making you tense and sweat, scanning the gages, practicing your approach enhances skills for real life. The murderous fright and G force mayhem of a real fighter combat cant be simulated in all its physical and mental anguish, the general tactics can in fact be learned, such as a fighters strength and weakness, and learning the tactics to employ in a given situation and such.

Does this mean you could learn the flight model of say a Yak here, and then go jump in one and all the numbers line up like the sim? Naw, too many variables, but the general idea is there.

So yup, almost any advanced player here would be better off having learned a whole lot about combat tactics. Would they actual be good pilots?

Hell no! Half us fat bellybutton rutabagas drinking good cold beer and eating aged $7.99 per pound hot cow couldn't even get off the couch to mow the lawn without squeaking, let alone partake in something as horrible and brave as aerial combat. (OK, well Ripsnort will be OK, as he worked in AGAIN his feets of ultrahuman strength stuff inna a thread...lol)
Still, the rest of us that just play games, pursue money in a office, and are sacks 'O toejam, we'd be definatley the not ashamed tards we are.

Sheesh!

[In a related side note though, I always find it amusing that guys that are private pilots, or commercial pilots, are somehow look up upon more as if they have some greater knowledge of flying a combat flight sim. Lol, unless they are acrobatic pilots, flying VOR courses from LAX to PHX isn't exactly a daring fighter ace in the making.
Thats like saying I am a better Nascar driver than some 15 year old is cuz I drive a car 55 mph down a straight highway to work and he has no license. What the REAL difference is, these real pilots have the experience of knowing the theory of flight, and have a day to day experience of having to juggle the many complex tasks that can bombard you in real aircraft. IMHO, most AH pilots that think they are LW experts, would toejam their pants if they even had to start a real airplane and taxi to a runway at O'hare. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)]

Geez, what a Saw-sational post. Thank God 105 will be out in the morning. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 12-21-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Tyro48 on December 21, 2000, 04:12:00 AM: Most would be dead within a week, your facing the real curtain call no second chances, you'd find yourself much more cautaious and willing to admit you dont know it all and can we hang with one of the Aces for a while.

Now you have weather to contend with,wind screwing up you shot, frantic radios calls, real death screams in your ears, ornery planes that may or may not do what your hoping for, in a nut shell it would scare the hell out of us, hopefully you live long enough to become numb to it all.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Creamo on December 21, 2000, 04:54:00 AM: And with perk planes and new score system ala 1.05, maybe there is in fact incentive to simulate "acting like real pilots would given a situation", enhansing the real life WWII combat sim we all want.

Unlike the free for all tardfest the MA has been.

I like it.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Jigster on December 21, 2000, 05:37:00 AM: I'd wait till I got outta flight training, then seriously fudge my government karma so I'm too valuable for court marshall but not enough to be sent to the front lines (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

I'd then use the valuable knowledge of sheep I learned from AW/AH and procede to put it to use on numerous deserted sheep farms around the US (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Vermillion on December 21, 2000, 06:16:00 AM: Well... I don't know about combat.

But I did go jump into a real AT-6 Texan with zero real life flight hours, and flew very good aerobatics.

And the instructor asked me, "so how many hours sticktime do you REALLY have?" and my answer was "real or simulated?" He just laughed, thinking I was roadkillting him.

We would definitely have an advantage over most of the other raw recruit pilots that got thrown into combat in the war with just basic flight training.

But that doesn't mean any of us would be Eric Hartmann all of a sudden. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: RAM on December 21, 2000, 07:55:00 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Pepino:
RAM, ETA is not Sinn Feinn. ETA is IRA without historical and political background.

Pepe

I didnt say that...read again:

Quote
Originally posted by RAM:

(you dont know what is HB in USA, but lets say they are the ETA's Sinn Fein...
....
being ETA a radical terrorist group in the line of IRA...but without a real excuse)

HB is the political branch of ETA...so it is for ETA what the Sinn Feinn is for the IRA.

Pepe...no corrijas a un vasco sobre esto (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) por desgracia se DEMASIADO sobre el tema (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-21-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Midnight on December 21, 2000, 08:48:00 AM: I think I would do well enough to stay alive as long as I was flying with at least someone else to wing with. I flew 2 combat missions (8 total dogfights) at Air Combat USA and could handle the G-loads no problem.

I think also I need some classroom style training as to what ACM to use in what situation. But also, if it were real life, you got to figure both pilots are fighting for their very lives.

Case in point, If I was attacking a bandit and he wanted to go head-long for the deck at 350mph, let him. I wouldn't blow that kind of E for just one kill like I would do in the game. I think I would stay high and wait.

------------------
"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: eagl on December 21, 2000, 11:36:00 AM: Creamo,

From personal experience, having some flying experience (including hundreds of hours of air combat training) definately helps out when flying sims.

The best example I have is my performance in the AH dueling tournament. While having Drex on my team sure didn't hurt (sorry udie (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I feel I had some amount of impact on our victories. Why does my flying experience help? Going into the AH con, I think I had flown AH a total of maybe 10-20 hours in the previous 6 months. Yet when I got into the duels, it wasn't hard at all. Even simple things like not spinning and augering at the merge (Can't remember which team did that hehe) is easier with real life experiences and real life combat reflexes.

Sure, some of my RL flying hurts me in the arena, mostly due to network lag buttering up my timing. But on the whole, even waaaay back to when I was still a pilot trainee without wings, I have NEVER had a sustained K/D under 1 in WB or AH. I'm not "that good", I've just seen it before thats all.

I agree 100%, RL pilots don't need to be put up on a pedestal, but the RL flying sure can make a sim pilot significantly better with less practice than many other gamers.

One bad side to having previous flying experience - flight model quirks are doubly irritating when you KNOW what's supposed to happen in certain situations, and it doesn't go that way in the game. Add to that the fact that fighter pilots are a bunch of children (but man are we cool), and like Pyro said in his ramblings it is tough to not whine yourself to death.

------------------
eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Hangtime on December 21, 2000, 12:11:00 PM: "You fight like you train"

Considering this flight sim experience as training, I would get one or two kills and then get myself killed.

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

On a more serious note; with the stakes much much higher (your life; for real) an entire different set of priorities would apply. Consider that here we have the 'choice' of what aircraft, what mission, what objective; what loadout. In RL that does not apply.. and 'one way missions' were a real part of war in the sky.

All in all.. it would probably suck. I'd be terrified; far more stressed, more alert, intolerant of incompetence on the part of a section leader or wingman, would be one hell of a lot more serious about the job... yes; I'd be a 'hunter' but I'd be a damn sight more willing to leave the fight when caught at a disadvantage...

I'd fear escort duty the most. Each of those bombers had 10 men.. 10 men.. all dependng on the effiecncy, skill and determination of an escort fighter pilot to keep 'em alive.. I could handle the responsibilty for my own life.. for my wingie.. for a section if I'd trained 'em.. but those 10 men in those bombers.. somebody makes a mistake, they die. Scares the hell outta me just thinking about it.

I'd much prefer this as a game. In a real war; I'd rather be in the navy... on a gun mount. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Hang
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Animal on December 21, 2000, 01:10:00 PM: Well he said after going thru basic training.

Lets just say you will have more knowledge of the TACTICS of air combat, rather than an edge on how to fly the airplane better. Sims are no substitute for real life, not a chance.

I got my private lisence a few weeks back. But I remember my first landings, it was NOTHING like the sims, I had to do it over and over again until I got it right. In sims I used to do it with crosswinds and even thunderstorms, on a Cessna 152.

As for me, I would be an average fighter pilot. I am a good flier, but I have problems finding other planes in the sky (trust me lads, its not as easy as in sims, even a 747 is pretty hard to scan in a sunny day against the clouds)

One of my favorite things when flying around on long boring trips is to pretend I am a fighter pilot on patrol and constantly scan the skies for enemies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) when I see other cessnas, I go for the kill. I never get to close tho (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) most of the time they never even know I was near.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Karnak on December 21, 2000, 01:17:00 PM: From where I am now? Badly, very very badly.

Give me the full training and I think I'd do alright, a bit above average, nothing stunning by any means though.

Yes, I think that we'ed have an edge due to how much we've thought about how this stuff works. A lot of the guys who did this had never thought about these concepts, nor had access to the information about it, until they found themselves in their respective air services' training programs.

I'm in OK physical shape and the military training would get me to where I would need to be.

I think I'd have a shot at becoming an ace, but I would certainly not run away from the field.

I can also see myself getting killed at this.

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 12-21-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: 1776 on December 21, 2000, 02:08:00 PM: Would be reduced to Water-boy as soon as I walked on the airfield!!
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Moose11 on December 21, 2000, 02:17:00 PM: has anyone mentioned www.aircombatusa.com? (http://www.aircombatusa.com?)

heh. If anyone in the boston area is interested, i need someone to fly against for the June 2001 dogfight..
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Sundog on December 21, 2000, 02:45:00 PM: I think it depends on a lot of factors (not that you guys don't).

1. Eyesight (Mine isn't what it used to be, so that would be a SERIOUS draw back)

2. In RL, Peripheral vision and our physical senses would add to out SA/Aircraft Attitude knowledge (Could also screw us up if we don't read instruments well enough). But I think we would have an added edge here.

2. I think many of us understand the tactics quite well, since we have been able to get our butts shot off virtually and learn from that. Not to mention we get to fly the aircraft we would fight to truly understand what our opponents A/C Strength/Weakness's are.

3. If I ever got over Pukin' my guts out I might be able to stay alive.

Overall, I would say we have an edge. Afterall, wasn't it that if you survived your first ten missions, you had pretty good odds of at least staying alive? I would say experience from AH would give us that edge of having survived those first missions.

SD
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: BlackHammer on December 21, 2000, 05:34:00 PM: i don't think that flying AH would have much bearing on how you would fly for real. the reason is that the prefferred tactics in here are radically different than in RL. in RL team tactics were used; here people generally fly as individuals, even in groups. in wwii the pilots often didn't have the luxury of only engaging when the enemy was in an inferior position. you did as the squadron did, even if it meant mixing up up with 109's with E advantage.

i'm not trying to bust chops, but the attitude here is every man for himself. if the mne has a bead on you, you bug out even if everyone else you flew in with is engaged. try that in RL and you would get courts-martialed for desertion and cowardice. in wwii you had to depend on your mates to keep your six clear while doing the same for them. this is not a priority for anyone here.

the one reason we might do better is we have access to everything we'd want to know about the nme planes and the benefit of 50 years worth of discussion on the appropriate tactics to use when encountering them.

personally, i think i'd do very, very well in wwii air combat. not really because of AH, but because i have always been clearly superior to just about everyone else in just about every aspect, and i'm sure flying would be no different.

black hammer
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: BlackHammer on December 21, 2000, 05:36:00 PM: (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: hazed- on December 21, 2000, 08:45:00 PM: Ram good for you mate!
if you can take a beating for your beliefs you go up a notch in my estimation

now would you mind popping over to Ireland and doing the same to some IRA thugs?

hazed
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Nash on December 21, 2000, 08:59:00 PM: Well, I don't know about alla that other stuff. One thing fer sure though....

I'd kick that pasty-faced punk Nath's ass! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Hangtime on December 21, 2000, 09:17:00 PM: I'd like to see that fight. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Nash on December 21, 2000, 09:45:00 PM: Well I dunno about that... it could be pretty grim.

I reckon he pulls 3 G's after the merge and his ribcage implodes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: sax on December 21, 2000, 10:01:00 PM: might help me keep in the air, but actual fight, no-way. We know way ahead of time what we are facing in a sim. I don't know for sure, but I don't think identifying enemy and friendlies would be so easy in rw.
sax
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: jedi on December 21, 2000, 11:07:00 PM: Hehehe...

We're talkin a REAL dogfight? With REAL planes? Against REAL fighter pilots? TRAINED ones, not guys on their first combat mission or guys with 2 hours on Spits?

IF you've flown a real plane before, if you can land one, recover from a stall, and do one or two aerobatic tricks, you MIGHT live long enough to extend far enough away that it wouldn't be worth chasing you down.

If you tried to actually fight, you'd die. 100% of you, on the first mission. Except Eagl, and he'd be hard-pressed to learn the differences between the sim warbird and the real one in time to actually fight an engagement. Where's the gun charging switches? Where's the gunsight switch? How much boost for combat? For how long? These sim planes are pale imitations of real planes. While you're figuring out how to tune the radio, JG-26 will be demonstrating how a real damage model works (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

P.S. the "acro pilot" would be dead even quicker, because he'd actually think he knew what he was doin (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Stick to saving the airliner when the pilots get food poisoning guys. At least you'd have an autopilot to land the plane and a stewardess to show you how to work the radio--and nobody shooting at you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

--jedi (who would also die, unless he was smart/lucky enough to find a cloud and use the only skill that might save him--his instrument rating) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Torque on December 21, 2000, 11:16:00 PM: I'm not sure how many hours HiTech has of real stick time but didn't he win that Dogfight competition. Then at the end he pulled out a draw with Shaw. Personal I'd luv to try that aerial combat stuff myself just to see.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: figaro on December 22, 2000, 02:06:00 AM: RAM,

Ole tus cojones, suerte y anda con cuidado. Todo eso esta muy feo.

Este post de tu parte compensa con creces todos los anteriores que me gustaron menos.

Saludos solidarios,

figaro
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: marcof on December 22, 2000, 02:20:00 AM: Good question, I think that in R/L, some of us would do quite well, but the fact that we could REALLY DIE!!, would proberly make us better pilots in the end, (safer).

Its not all about simply flying the A/C, also there would be a psycological effect on us, seeing our friends not returning etc...

But to answer the original question, I think that the majority of us would be as good as the next Raw recurit, if not slightly better.
Marco.
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Gh0stFT on December 22, 2000, 03:11:00 AM: its similar to this question:

"does a Racing Sim makes you a Michael Schumacher in RL?" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

IMHO every good Sim is ok for learning Basic steps (SA, Maneuvers ect.) but the Reality is a different world.

greets Gh0stFT
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Pepino on December 22, 2000, 04:07:00 AM: RAM,

Tienes razón. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)

Pepe
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: StSanta on December 22, 2000, 04:26:00 AM: I would do very well.

I'd take my 190, fly low to Sweden, hide it in a barn and sell it after the war ends (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: stegor on December 22, 2000, 05:58:00 AM: ..I thinK i'll die at the first HO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (hate them)
Anyone know if ater dying we could whine (about F4 ,Niki)??? Could it be nice

------------------
Stefano "Nibbio"
4°Stormo CT "F.Baracca"
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Jekyll on December 22, 2000, 07:56:00 AM: Quote
I'd take my 190, fly low to Sweden, hide it in a barn and sell it after the war ends

Now there's some lateral thinking for you. Now if only Goering and Co had had the right idea, they could have left the entire Luftwaffe on the ground and bided their time.

If they sold them now they could buy Europe! Why bother invading?

190's anyone?
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: sourkraut on December 22, 2000, 09:47:00 AM: It's -
Train as you fight, fight as you train.

As a developer of training simulators for warfighters, I would say that this game provides a training "capability" for team tactics and interaction/communication. I say capability because command/team play here is very rarely exercised the way it is in RL.

The fidelity of the simulation is insufficient to provide much more than that. The flight model, while pretty decent (for a PC game), is not sufficient for flight training. Obviously gunnery training is not supported, either. It does not support any preflight procedures, no engine management training, and certainly does not support navigation training.

I think it could also be used to demonstrate CONCEPTS of BFM, ACM but not to train how to do them. (Concept training is known as Knowledge training; learning how to do something (eg, by practice) is known as Skills training.)

To answer the question on how I would do in RL. I don't think that I would do any better - which is scary since I suck here.

I do know that if a RL combat experienced pilot spent time learning the nuances here and had lots of practice he would kick butt. He also would be called an "allied opportunist" by some because of his tendency to fly to live.

Sour

[This message has been edited by sourkraut (edited 12-22-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Wotan on December 22, 2000, 02:53:00 PM: The only relevant question is what kind of man are you. Do you think you compare well with the men who went up day after day knowing that the odds against their survival were slim. Lets say your a spit mk1 pilot or a hurricane pilot during the darkest days of the battle of britain or luftwaffe pilot risking all to stop the rain of terror that visits your land day after day. or a jap pilot in a tony grabbin alt to meet a b29 or facing the endless wave of us air power or a polish, french, finnish or soviet pilot upping in out dated aircraft with minimum training to face a seemingly undefeatable enemy. If most of us take an honest look at who we are knowing what we know would you go? Granted most had little real idea in the beginning about what they faced they simply went through it some lived alot died but there's no doubt that in last days any axis pilot who upped to stop the slaughter being visited on his cities or in the begining any allied pilot who risked it all to stem the tide was something special. Im an American love my land and am proud of what my grandparents achieved but I dont think when I was 18-24 I was even close to half the men they were. Off topic sorry but i think relevant.

[This message has been edited by Wotan (edited 12-22-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Wlfgng on December 22, 2000, 03:02:00 PM: Moose I just may have to take you up on that..! It'd be a blast!

June you say ? hmmmmm
(checks bank statement)

(http://www.nick-tucker.com/AH/_graphics/wlfgng.gif) (http://www.nick-tucker.com)
EMAIL assassins@aceshighcs.com
EMAIL Wlfgng@aceshighcs.com

[This message has been edited by Wlfgng (edited 12-22-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: Suave1 on December 22, 2000, 03:43:00 PM: The thing about combat is, you could be super huah and still get killed the first day . Bullets don't care what your name is, and it only takes one .

[This message has been edited by Suave1 (edited 12-22-2000).]
Title: How do you think you would do in RL air combat?
Post by: MiG Eater on December 22, 2000, 04:05:00 PM: I've flown with Air Combat USA quite a few times and completed their advanced air combat course. I did well and one of the instructors that I flew with offered me a job as an IP. (I'm flying T-34's now and working my way towards a commercial rating, which they require.)

If you are overweight, have eyesight problems, are prone to motion sickness or lack the stamina to endure the G forces, no amount of sim training will help overcome these problems. Simming is a great way to learn the basics fighter maneuvers, energy management and overall tactics. But sims lack the disorientating aspects of motion and only provide a small window in which to see the world. You also have to monitor air traffic as well as all of the real aircraft systems which are nearly non-existant in many combat sims.

Some people do well, some get really sick and some people have the time of their lives even if they "lose." I'd recommend that y'all give the real thing a try with any of the civilian air combat schools. Its pricey but worth it.

MiG