Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BMathis on August 28, 2008, 02:14:18 PM

Title: Rare Aircraft
Post by: BMathis on August 28, 2008, 02:14:18 PM
Saw this cool site, and some amazing aircraft that were never fully put into production....

http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/UNITED%20STATES.htm

It's a time killer if you're just chillen.  :aok

(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/picturesn/ac21.jpg)

(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/picturesn/ac22.jpg)

(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/picturesn/ac23.jpg)
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: titanic3 on August 28, 2008, 02:17:50 PM
They weren't in service for a reason.... :noid
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: 007Rusty on August 28, 2008, 03:04:03 PM
cool pics   :aok
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Redlegs on August 28, 2008, 03:05:23 PM
Very nice find.  :aok
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: redman555 on August 28, 2008, 03:40:56 PM
wow, put that in AH and i will fly the pony 4 sure  :D


-BigBOBCH
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: wooly15 on August 28, 2008, 03:50:24 PM
GRUMMAN F4F-3S WILDCATFISH .....LMFAO :rofl
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Gianlupo on August 28, 2008, 05:09:03 PM
Where is Widewing, when you need him? :)

The Pony in the first picture, IIRC, is not a P-51 but an A-36 Apache/Invader, the first examples of which were fitted with 4 Hispanoes: not totally sure, but they should have seen combat.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Bosco123 on August 28, 2008, 06:15:13 PM
Where is Widewing, when you need him? :)

The Pony in the first picture, IIRC, is not a P-51 but an A-36 Apache/Invader, the first examples of which were fitted with 4 Hispanoes:
I think A-36s were just before the war, which is pretty obvious.
The only way I can tell a A36 from a P51B was the Air coolant on the nose.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: colmbo on August 28, 2008, 06:48:17 PM
A-36s flew combat in Italy and North Africa.

The 4 cannon is an P51 or P51A.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Guppy35 on August 28, 2008, 06:49:43 PM
There were a few Allison engined P51s that had 4 20mm.  The A36 was not one of them.  And the A36 was not a pre-war plane

The A36 had dive brakes, which lead to the attack designation.  The P51A did not.  Both were Allison engined birds.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Banshee7 on August 28, 2008, 07:16:51 PM
There were a few Allison engined P51s that had 4 20mm.  The A36 was not one of them.  And the A36 was not a pre-war plane

The A36 had dive brakes, which lead to the attack designation.  The P51A did not.  Both were Allison engined birds.

in your face "know-it-alls"  :)
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: 1pLUs44 on August 28, 2008, 07:20:59 PM
The B-15 is pretty cool, I'm gonna read up on that. Looked interesting.

 :eek:
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Redlegs on August 28, 2008, 07:24:13 PM
(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/pictureso/ab2.jpg)

Couldn't find anything on the disruptive camouflage. What was the point of it?
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Golfer on August 28, 2008, 08:54:22 PM
I think A-36s were just before the war, which is pretty obvious.

Do a little research on the development of the P-51 and you'll find that to not be the case.  Apparently it was not as obvious as you thought Bosco  ;)
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: 1pLUs44 on August 28, 2008, 08:56:58 PM
(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/pictureso/ab2.jpg)

Couldn't find anything on the disruptive camouflage. What was the point of it?

It might confuse you :noid
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Widewing on August 28, 2008, 09:09:39 PM
Where is Widewing, when you need him? :)

The Pony in the first picture, IIRC, is not a P-51 but an A-36 Apache/Invader, the first examples of which were fitted with 4 Hispanoes: not totally sure, but they should have seen combat.

That Mustang is a P-51/Mustang Mk.Ia and it saw combat service. 150 were built, with 97 delivered to the RAF, and the balance being retained by the AAF. One of these was the basis for the XP-51B.

Here's one with a lot of combat sorties under its belt..
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/20mmp51.jpg)

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: 1pLUs44 on August 28, 2008, 09:10:48 PM
An A-36 apache IIRC has 4 .50s in the wings, and then, 2 .50s in the lower nose which looks very odd.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: FTJR on August 29, 2008, 12:06:06 AM
On the picture of the B25 H ( I presume) the aerial shot, is that a ventral turret just aft the bomb doors? If so, were they common?

TIA
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Chalenge on August 29, 2008, 12:09:28 AM
Where is Widewing, when you need him? :)

The Pony in the first picture, IIRC, is not a P-51 but an A-36 Apache/Invader, the first examples of which were fitted with 4 Hispanoes: not totally sure, but they should have seen combat.
EDIT: (oops Widewing beat me to it)

Not correct. Those are British Mustang 1a (P51 without any letter designation). I believe the British bought something like 160 of them which should be enough to allow perk versions in AHII if HT were so inclined. If he were I would most likely fly nothing else.

The A36 had two .30 caliber machine guns in the lower nose and four .50 caliber machine guns (two in each wing) and true dive brakes. If both were in the game I would have no need for any other airplane.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Rino on August 29, 2008, 12:53:02 AM
(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/pictureso/ab2.jpg)

Couldn't find anything on the disruptive camouflage. What was the point of it?

     The dazzle paint stuff was used during wargames pre-war.  Only thing I've seen it used on during the war
were ships.  I have seen some weird stuff like fake noses painted on B-24s.  The most creative non use of
paint IMO was the bare nose scheme used by the 20th FG P-38s to simulate droop snoot gunless 38s.

(http://www.jbdiecast.com/Armour/Armour-P-38,-CA-Cutie,-LT-N.jpg)
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Tac on August 29, 2008, 01:05:38 AM
(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/pictureso/ab2.jpg)

Couldn't find anything on the disruptive camouflage. What was the point of it?


Mime planes. Now ive seen it all.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Chalenge on August 29, 2008, 01:58:37 AM
That Mustang is a P-51/Mustang Mk.Ia and it saw combat service. 150 were built, with 97 delivered to the RAF, and the balance being retained by the AAF. One of these was the basis for the XP-51B.

Here's one with a lot of combat sorties under its belt..
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/20mmp51.jpg)

My regards,

Widewing

Also the Americans copied the British in mounting cameras in the P51s and redesignated them F6As which saw service in Africa with the 154th Observation Squadron.

WideWing any way you can find out if they ever drew blood? It would be interesting to know if these were the first true 'Mustangs' to claim a kill. I know they were under orders to avoid prolonged combat and see that their missions were accomplished by getting home but we all know how that goes when you see the enemy in front of your guns.  :D
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Furball on August 29, 2008, 02:18:22 AM
There are some reaaal smurfy planes there.

The B-15 kinda looks like the Mosquitos obese brother.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: BMathis on August 29, 2008, 03:25:19 AM
The Pony in the first picture, IIRC, is not a P-51 but an A-36 Apache/Invader, the first examples of which were fitted with 4 Hispanoes: not totally sure, but they should have seen combat.

It's a P-51 with quad 20mm's... Deadly as it sounds I'd guess.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Gianlupo on August 29, 2008, 05:49:44 AM
I stand corrected. Thanks, gents! :)
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: bongaroo on August 29, 2008, 08:06:07 AM
I want the Ki84 with the 4x20mms   mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm   :D
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Charge on August 29, 2008, 08:25:05 AM
"Couldn't find anything on the disruptive camouflage. What was the point of it?"

I think it could be used just to hide the the basic form of the object if you cannot blend it in the surrounding colour scheme, and that even with high contrast colours. Used already during WWI in ships, maybe it would work especially well near the shorelines with some added background disruption.

(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h43000/h43622.jpg)

(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/i02000/i02654.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/2394045002_f38c0704b8.jpg?v=0)

-C+
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Rino on August 29, 2008, 08:27:08 AM
     I believe the dazzle paint was designed to make it harder for enemy warships and
submarines to correctly judge the range by making it harder to determine the actual
size of the vessel.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Charge on August 29, 2008, 08:27:20 AM
Double post, sry.

-C+
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Cthulhu on August 29, 2008, 09:26:11 AM
     I believe the dazzle paint was designed to make it harder for enemy warships and
submarines to correctly judge the range by making it harder to determine the actual
size of the vessel.
Pretty much what I thought too.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: BMathis on August 29, 2008, 10:07:02 PM
Pretty much what I thought too.
I do believe that's the point... Nice find on those ships Charge!
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Furball on August 30, 2008, 03:28:53 AM
The dazzle schemes made it difficult for the enemy to correctly identify which direction the ship was heading, because it was hard to make out the outline or any identifying marks of the ship.  Pretty important for plotting courses and gunfire :)
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Charge on August 30, 2008, 03:45:30 AM
See also a bit different approach Germans had in WW2:

(http://www.navweaps.com/index_inro/GERbb08_Bismarck-LDclr.jpg)

Although this picture does not show any kind of camouflage:

(http://www.skovheim.org/worldwide/southeurope/bismarck/bismarck2.jpg)

-C+

Ed. Correction: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/miscellaneous/book_reviews/classic_warships/classic_warships_wp_19_bismarck_book_review.html
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Furball on August 30, 2008, 03:54:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLgc2q4LCuE

Here you go, gotta love James May :)
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Widewing on August 30, 2008, 08:22:09 AM
(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/pictureso/ab2.jpg)

Couldn't find anything on the disruptive camouflage. What was the point of it?

Go here:http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/f-types/f2a-cam.htm (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/f-types/f2a-cam.htm)


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Bosco123 on August 30, 2008, 09:40:36 AM
Do a little research on the development of the P-51 and you'll find that to not be the case.  Apparently it was not as obvious as you thought Bosco  ;)
hmmmm....
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Golfer on August 30, 2008, 04:07:19 PM
hmmmm....


"I see" said the blind man.

The early development of a mustang is a pretty cool story.
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: Bubbajj on August 31, 2008, 01:27:35 AM
We need to have the nazi skinned P-38. Man, that would drive the SAAP guys nuts!!! :D

http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/picturesq/aa78.jpg
Title: Re: Rare Aircraft
Post by: EskimoJoe on August 31, 2008, 01:55:38 AM
     I believe the dazzle paint was designed to make it harder for enemy warships and
submarines to correctly judge the range by making it harder to determine the actual
size of the vessel.

I read in interesting book a few years back, about a sailor delivering supplies to the Russians during WWII. He said that the black and white pattern was so German U-boats would have trouble finding the range/size/heading of the ship.

*Edit, just noticed it's all been mentioned before, shucks  :(