Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on August 28, 2008, 10:24:25 PM
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Watched the entire thing. Resisted uncounted urges to change the channel. When it was over I just turned the TV off.... the whole experience was like touring a lunatic asylum.
I somehow felt 'dirty'.. Used. Abused. Screwed. Tattooed. And I'm not even a democrat.
So, I wandered off to the head, left a world-class a dump, took a shower, ate a bowl of ice-cream.
Still feel like I've just been raped.
*sigh*
I weep for the species.
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Are you republican?
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Nope. I'm an American.
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:aok
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I felt the same way when Dubya was nominated
I predicted skyrocketing national debt, a debt our grandchildren's grandchildren will be paying off, that Haliburton would get most of the contracts for any work in the middle east - and at enormous no bid contract levels - that we would most likely have a stock market volatility equal to 1929 levels - including bank failures ...
I was right
Boy I hope we can be lucky enough to have 4 more wonderful years of it - heck why not eight -
:rolleyes:
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I felt the same way when Dubya was nominated
I predicted skyrocketing national debt, a debt our grandchildren's grandchildren will be paying off, that Haliburton would get most of the contracts for any work in the middle east - and at enormous no bid contract levels - that we would most likely have a stock market volatility equal to 1929 levels - including bank failures ...
I was right
Boy I hope we can be lucky enough to have 4 more wonderful years of it - heck why not eight -
:rolleyes:
You could be quite popular on this board if you would post your stock picks for the upcoming year.
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You could be quite popular on this board if you would post your stock picks for the upcoming year.
hahahahhhehhehehHAHHAHAHahhhe hheheh...
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...
thanks, Holden.. I feel better now. :aok
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You could be quite popular on this board if you would post your stock picks for the upcoming year.
Lets see - any major corporations based in Arizona that do government contract work?
:)
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I counted around 35 Thank yous, got sick of hearing
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Saw the last half, and watching the first half online now. Was very much impressed, and liked what I heard during the speech's second half. I'm sick and tired of an unresponsive government and a whiny lackluster electorate too.
Still not ready to cast my vote. I will vote come Nov 4th.
This wasn't the standard "come to the government and we'll make it better" line that in the past has been so with the Dems and when it has not has been a Republican caricature attack point.
I'm glad the Republicans are getting the last at bat. I'll watch attentively.
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I counted around 35 Thank yous, got sick of hearing
just curious... will you be counting McCain's?
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just curious... will you be counting McCain's?
I counted thank yous from Steve Martin once.... lost count at 942
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I felt the same way when Dubya was nominated
I predicted skyrocketing national debt, a debt our grandchildren's grandchildren will be paying off, that Haliburton would get most of the contracts for any work in the middle east - and at enormous no bid contract levels - that we would most likely have a stock market volatility equal to 1929 levels - including bank failures ...
Well since Soros bought Halliburton its a liberal problem now. My portfolio is almost triple what it was before Bush. Berkshire A is way down which upsets me but its still 500% above where I bought it. So why are you complaining exactly? You dont actually own stocks right?
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Are you republican?
LMAO. You mean you cant tell?
Being as of yet undecided. And not particularly caring for either
Unlike many on this board
I am trying to take as an unbiased a view of the two as possible.
As speeches go
I thought it was a damn good speech. and well executed
In alot of ways very Reganesque. He learned his lessons well from the great communicator.
But other influences I saw were John Kennedy and Martin Luther king.
On the topics. In alot of areas he was spot on.
Alot of areas he wasn't.
If taken at face value. He made a pretty good case for himself. Seemingly more middle of the road in a common sense sort of way.
Couple of highlights
2nd amendment. He mentioned keeping the second while keeping AK's out "of the hands of Criminals." Counter to what the right moans he didn't say outlaw gun ownership but he specifically said keeping out of the hands of "criminals" while specifically stating maintaining the second amendment.
Also emphasized personal responsibility and saying the government cant do everything.
Tax cuts, AND cuts in government programs that do not work (spot on in this area IMO)
A few other things that Im sure will come up.
Lowlights.
"His your on your own" condemnation of the right. Having pulled myself up by my bootstraps when I dint have bootstraps to pull up on. I can say he is off base here.
"Government sitting on its hands while a city drowned" Might not be the exact quote. But close enough.
Pure BS statement there.
Some good lines and observations
"Change doesnt come from Washington. It comes to Washington." GREAT line
Democrats,Republicans and independents fighting and dieing together. Another good point
Whats wrong in Washington over the last 30 years and how McCain has been there for 26 of them.
Exposed McCains claim of being more moderat and willing to go against his party claims with the
"Voted with Bush 90% of the time" statement. Nobody. I dont care who you are am I going to agree with 90% of the time
In all Fairness Obamas Voting record isnt any better. so this point is a wash.
Really REALLY good point IMO
As much as people harp and Damn Obama for his lack of experience.
The most damning thing about McCain IS his experience.
Unlike Some here (note I DID say "some", not "all") who claim they have but obviously haven't
I actually have looked up how McCains voted in his time in Washington.
He's flip flopped like the rest, He's made some good votes I agree with. and some bad ones I don't.
And very interestingly not voted at all on other things.
Particularly over the last couple of years. I suspect in anticipation of his running for pres.
Cant be nailed on an issue of you've not voted on it. (BTW im not counting the votes he didnt make in the last 6-8 months)
Back on topic
All in all a good speech. If taken at face value. Makes a pretty good case for himself. More middle of the road then pure leftist.
DEFINITELY Not Hillary
Then again.
What he says and what he does. May be two entirely different things.
But Im sure I will be saying the same thing and making the same type observations after McCains acceptance speech.
But I do promise I will look at it in the same unbiased light as I have this one.
You see I am not going ot base my vote on only a few issues. Particularly on the two that arent likely to change much either way (Guns and abortion) regardless of who gets elected.
But rather the entire package.
Right now neither has me convinced.
I dont really care for either.
But neither has my total condemnation either
Both have policies I like and both have policies that disturb me
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[snip]
<S> for being fair to both sides.
(I don't know if you're being open-minded, but if so, then <S> for that as well :aok)
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I felt the same way when Dubya was nominated
I predicted skyrocketing national debt, a debt our grandchildren's grandchildren will be paying off, that Haliburton would get most of the contracts for any work in the middle east - and at enormous no bid contract levels - that we would most likely have a stock market volatility equal to 1929 levels - including bank failures ...
I was right
Boy I hope we can be lucky enough to have 4 more wonderful years of it - heck why not eight -
:rolleyes:
Not hard to be wrong on those predictions.
Your grandfather was probably saying the same thing only out of concern that his grandchildren (the most common form of that claim) would be paying for it.
Tell me. How much of the national debt have you had to pay? How has it effected you?
Haliburton has been used by every administration of both parties dating back to Kennedy.
The volatility of the stock market is the only thing about the stock market that Is predictable.
If Bush is responsible for bank failures. Then Clinton must be held responcable for the market crash of the early 2000s and the Enron type fiasco.
Let ya in on a little secret. shhhh dont tell anyone.
::looking both ways then whispering:: I predict that no matter who is president. The same type things are gonna happen again,and again,and again.
In fact. So confident am I that these things were so easy to predict. that I predict that no matter who is in office for how long,10 years from now.
Someone else will be making the same complaints and observations
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Well since Soros bought Halliburton its a liberal problem now. My portfolio is almost triple what it was before Bush. Berkshire A is way down which upsets me but its still 500% above where I bought it. So why are you complaining exactly? You don't actually own stocks right?
?
your kidding right?
What the h does your portfolio have to do with the economy?
How many of those collapsing bank shares do you own?
And lol - nice try - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56177
you don't actually research your "I'm a quick draw McGraw ..walk the party line... do you?
If you think I'm impressed you own A stocks - yes i am... how many ? Too rich for my blood and probably 98% of the Americans who are dealing with dubya's using the national debt like a non refundable credit card -
H - i don't even like Obama - but jeez - auto smacking him down becuz he isn't republican is hilarious - especially after dealing with dubya these last terms
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snip
You have to remember where he comes from too. His church his people his family and how he has felt about America and her people all his life. Forgetting all that inside of the pony race for POTUS and taking a speech at face value from any politician is a terrible mistake. This is what politicians do is give speeches. Beyond that he will do as he is and always has been.
I fully expect this mans administration to go off like a madman let lose in the paint store. Thats change for you.
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Oh hell, I listened to the speech and thought I was in Germany in 1933... Scary scary stuff... This speech makes me want to paint my whole house and all 3 vehicles into a "Bob Barr '08" campaign mural. God help us!
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Not hard to be wrong on those predictions.
Your grandfather was probably saying the same thing only out of concern that his grandchildren (the most common form of that claim) would be paying for it.
Tell me. How much of the national debt have you had to pay? How has it effected you?
Haliburton has been used by every administration of both parties dating back to Kennedy.
The volatility of the stock market is the only thing about the stock market that Is predictable.
If Bush is responsible for bank failures. Then Clinton must be held responcable for the market crash of the early 2000s and the Enron type fiasco.
Let ya in on a little secret. shhhh dont tell anyone.
::looking both ways then whispering:: I predict that no matter who is president. The same type things are gonna happen again,and again,and again.
In fact. So confident am I that these things were so easy to predict. that I predict that no matter who is in office for how long,10 years from now.
Someone else will be making the same complaints and observations
Pssss < looks around... >> Dubya was president in early 2000's - actually market dumped when he was nominated ....
How does it affect me?.... well - you tell me what you say to your grandchildren.... hey = your grandkids are gonna pay for our ijot mistakes ... what was the national debt when clinton left office? ... and what is it now?....
Your condensending post was a good laff
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It will go down in history as the Obamanberg Rally. I was hoping they all would start chanting
Yes we can! :salute
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?
your kidding right?
No Im not. Im surviving just fine despite the company I worked for having let go of 70% of its employees and its because I watch things in the news and from Washington that I was prepared for these events. I had the chance to buy a home cheap in South Florida (one of the hardest hit by the economy) but I also saw it as a bad choice and didnt. The economy isnt going to change because of who becomes the POTUS. In case you havent been paying attention I dont like any of the candidates. McCain was chosen by liberals as their next best option to a liberal winning the white house.
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The Oratory skills of the Anointed One are great.
The eye-candy and symbolism.. well scripted.
The message... muddled.
Answered... nothing. Repetitions of the Change theme... no new 'whats', no answers to 'how'.
I remain un-enlightened.
But I did get a satisfying dump off at the end of it... at my age, that's something.
Thanks, Mr. 'O'.
BTW, Dred.. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I'm an American. Just like you. I'm registered as an Independent, always have been. Proud of that.... in spite of the fact that lately, it's the brand that seems to be in 'style'.
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Pssss < looks around... >> Dubya was president in early 2000's - actually market dumped when he was nominated ....
How does it affect me?.... well - you tell me what you say to your grandchildren.... hey = your grandkids are gonna pay for our ijot mistakes ... what was the national debt when clinton left office? ... and what is it now?....
Your condensending post was a good laff
The market started to fail while Clinton was in office. It was on his watch through all of the 90s that the Enron type fiascos took place.
It all only came to a head at the end of his term and in the beginning of Bush's first term.
Bush had ZERO to do with the collapse.
I have always maintained that the POTUS is given too much credit when the economy goes well and took much blame when it doesnt.
If either president can be blamed for anything. Its for the lack of oversight when things are going TOO well. such as the runaway economy of the 90s and housing boom of this decade which it seems to tend to lead to these types of bubble bursts.
My point was. Your grandfather(and mine too) probably made the same arguement years and years ago. only saying that his grandchildren were going to have to pay for it. Have you?
Im not saying it isnt a concern. Or that nothing should be done about it. Its just not as huge a concern as the alarmists would make it out to be.
Im glad you enjoyed it.
I do try to be entertaining as well as informative :D
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what was the national debt when clinton left office? ... and what is it now?....
Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
On January 20, 2001, Congress had spent 5.73 trillion more than it had collected since the beginning of the republic. To date Congress has borrowed 9.1 trillion . So during the Bush Presidency, Congress has spent 3.37 trillion more than Congress collected in taxes. So Congress had to borrow that additional 3.37 trillion.
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Watched the entire thing. Resisted uncounted urges to change the channel. When it was over I just turned the TV off.... the whole experience was like touring a lunatic asylum.
I somehow felt 'dirty'.. Used. Abused. Screwed. Tattooed. And I'm not even a democrat.
So, I wandered off to the head, left a world-class a dump, took a shower, ate a bowl of ice-cream.
Still feel like I've just been raped.
*sigh*
I weep for the species.
\Jimmy Carter think on
Well, then you must be racist!
\Jimmy Carter think off
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<S> for being fair to both sides.
(I don't know if you're being open-minded, but if so, then <S> for that as well :aok)
Im not part of the "Rah! Rah! GooOOO TEAM!" right or left sheep.
I save that kind of silliness for things that in the greater scheme dont really matter. Football, baseball, Aces High, etc.
I have a problem. Its called individual thought.
I insist on thinking for myself rather then being lead around like a sheep by fear mongering rhetoric from one side or the other.
I cant help it. I guess I was just brought up wrong. LOL
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BTW, Dred.. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I'm an American. Just like you. I'm registered as an Independent, always have been. Proud of that.... in spite of the fact that lately, it's the brand that seems to be in 'style'.
My apologies then if I offended
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Oh hell, I listened to the speech and thought I was in Germany in 1933... Scary scary stuff... This speech makes me want to paint my whole house and all 3 vehicles into a "Bob Barr '08" campaign mural. God help us!
Yeah... me too. Inflation rose 200% today. I spent my entire paycheck on a sack of potatoes.
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Pssss < looks around... >> Dubya was president in early 2000's - actually market dumped when he was nominated ....
You know some portions of the market dump while others go up. Knowing where to be and when is not really easy but it is possible to make money on the market when the press is yelling its collective head off that 'the sky is falling' and for obvious reasons the press is not the best place to discover these things. The press actually magnifies difficulties and the government has been known to make things worse be legislating bank regulations and policies as in our latest housing fiasco and you can thank both parties. The one bipartisan policy you can count on is screwing the American people out of their hard earned dollars.
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I felt the same way when Dubya was nominated
I predicted skyrocketing national debt, a debt our grandchildren's grandchildren will be paying off, that Haliburton would get most of the contracts for any work in the middle east - and at enormous no bid contract levels - that we would most likely have a stock market volatility equal to 1929 levels - including bank failures ...
I was right
Boy I hope we can be lucky enough to have 4 more wonderful years of it - heck why not eight -
:rolleyes:
I predicted that the war would last 5 years or more. My republican friends said no way! We'll be in and out of there in 3 months! Cheney said so! The economic pitfalls were obvious. A slowing economy(in 2000) and then adding tax cuts, while spending 9-10 million(billion?) a month in Iraq. In 2000 I said "Bush is not a leader". He proved it. Cheney and Rumsfeld set their own agenda's.
What happened? For 30 years I've heard about how the republicans would fix things if they had control. They had TOTAL control for 6 years(8 if you count the ineffective Dem's for last 2 years). Did they pass any of their great ideas of the past 30 years? Prayer in schools? NO! Are our schools better? Guns? (repealed the assault gun ban?) Strengthen the 2ND amendment? NO! Make our streets safer? NO! How many mass murders have we had in the last several years. (both parties to blame here) We seem to average one or two a year. Mass murders have become so common we don't pay attention until the numbers get over 20.
Energy plan to make us independent of foreign oil? Mmm NO! Check out the T. Boone Pickens energy plan. Good stuff. Not a chance that either party will go for it tho. Oil companies aren't spending all that lobby money for nothing.
Stopped the drugs coming from Canada. Oh wait that was prescription drugs. More lobby money well spent.
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For 30 years I've heard about how the republicans would fix things if they had control.
Skip over Reagan?
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Skip over Reagan?
To go back to Reagan's term...That's when the outward migration of our core industries' started to really snowball, and Reagan catered to oriental business interests. Why do you think they were giving Ronald such large sums of money for his post-presidency speaking tours?
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Pssss < looks around... >> Dubya was president in early 2000's - actually market dumped when he was nominated ...
Psst look again .. the market dumped way BEFORE Jan 2001. Clinton handed off a used and abused bubble that had popped.
Bush had turned it around before 9/11 with his tax cuts. But please continue to ignore the facts that do not fit your hate bush agenda....
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I predicted that the war would last 5 years or more. My republican friends said no way! We'll be in and out of there in 3 months! Cheney said so!
excerpt from GW Bush, USS Lincoln speech
We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons, and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated.
We are helping to rebuild Iraq where the dictator built palaces for himself instead of hospitals and schools.
And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by and for the Iraqi people.
The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done and then we will leave and we will leave behind a free Iraq.
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Why is it people listen to what politicians SAY, instead of seeing how they ACTUALLY VOTED? They'll SAY ANYTHING to get elected, it's what they've DONE and what they'll DO that matters. And what they've DONE is what will give the best idea of what they'll DO, and NOT what they SAY.
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Pssss < looks around... >> Dubya was president in early 2000's - actually market dumped when he was nominated ....
Psst look again .. the market dumped way BEFORE Jan 2001. Clinton handed off a used and abused bubble that had popped.
Bush had turned it around before 9/11 with his tax cuts. But please continue to ignore the facts that do not fit your hate bush agenda....
Eagler is correct, the market began slumping March 2000 and began a natural trend downward. Bush wasn't elected until Nov of 2000 and wasn't in office until Jan. 2001
Another thing to keep in mind is that we had a predominent Republican congress and Senate during the "Golden years" of the tech boom, from 1994 through 2004.
Here is the DOW Jones historical chart. Note the effect of 9/11/2001
http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html
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Why do you think they were giving Ronald such large sums of money for his post-presidency speaking tours?
How much did Clinton make for his post-presidency speaking tours?
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It was a great speech, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it. He's going to make a great president!
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"I predicted that the war would last 5 years or more. My republican friends said no way! We'll be in and out of there in 3 months! Cheney said so!"
Said that before first shots were fired. Wasn't that original tho, lot of people were saying same thing at the time.
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your kidding right?
What the h does your portfolio have to do with the economy?
How many of those collapsing bank shares do you own?
And lol - nice try - http://www.world netdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56177
you don't actually research your "I'm a quick draw McGraw ..walk the party line... do you?
If you think I'm impressed you own A stocks - yes i am... how many ? Too rich for my blood and probably 98% of the Americans who are dealing with dubya's using the national debt like a non refundable credit card -
H - i don't even like Obama - but jeez - auto smacking him down because he isn't republican is hilarious - especially after dealing with dubya these last terms
so tell us why congress has a 9 % approval rating or why gas prices were steady till the Dem.s took it over?
the debt of the people I.E. credit cards is there own fault! not the Dem's or the rep. party.
and by the way i doubt you make less than i do from working, yet i own quite a bit of stock, i didn't buy or sell any of it because of who was going to be president i bought and sold because it was a good opportunity for me and my daughter, and yes they will pay large amounts within the next 8 years if all goes well, so i don't want Oboma as pres. because i don't think he should be able to take 30% or more of that profit! he didn't work his rear off too buy it, nor did he have many a sleepless night wondering if he did the right thing holding on to it! now you explain why i should be happy to give it too him?
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Why is it people listen to what politicians SAY, instead of seeing how they ACTUALLY VOTED? They'll SAY ANYTHING to get elected, it's what they've DONE and what they'll DO that matters. And what they've DONE is what will give the best idea of what they'll DO, and NOT what they SAY.
:aok
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It was a great speech, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it. He's going to make a great president!
please pass the kool-aid if you have not drank it all ....
or is it puff-puff-pass LOL
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Haliburton has been used by every administration of both parties dating back to Kennedy.
Not to get off topic but I get tired of seeing that line. Yes Halliburton has been around a long time and been used by many presidents.. Yet "NEVER" have they been used at the levels they are today with so many massive no bid contracts.
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Not to get off topic but I get tired of seeing that line. Yes Halliburton has been around a long time and been used by many presidents.. Yet "NEVER" have they been used at the levels they are today with so many massive no bid contracts.
Well, at least George Soros is making money off of them! :aok
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Why is it people listen to what politicians SAY, instead of seeing how they ACTUALLY VOTED? They'll SAY ANYTHING to get elected, it's what they've DONE and what they'll DO that matters. And what they've DONE is what will give the best idea of what they'll DO, and NOT what they SAY.
Q&BFT
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Headlines in today's paper: GDP up by 3.2% during the last fiscal year.
Doesn't sound like a depression to me.
The speech was well delivered....but the same old same old. New programs to help out those in need. Soak the rich....tax cuts to the middle class (Clinton promised them too....then reneged after he was elected.)
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2nd amendment. He mentioned keeping the second while keeping AK's out "of the hands of Criminals." Counter to what the right moans he didn't say outlaw gun ownership but he specifically said keeping out of the hands of "criminals" while specifically stating maintaining the second amendment.
His actions speak much louder than his words. And if he's bending the truth here, where else is he bending the truth? Where he at the same time trumpets personal responsibility but calls on the govt. to be our "keeper?"
Here's his record on gun control:
* Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
* FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
* Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
* Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
* 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
* Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
* Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
* Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
* Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
Here's a democratic strategy piece on how to appear pro 2nd without actually going there, because they know that most of the American people are rubes who will let emotion get in the way of analysis and logic:
If a candidate or officeholder intends to support gun safety laws like closing the gun show loophole or renewing the assault weapons ban, it is critical to couple that support with support for the Second Amendment and for enforcing the laws on the books.
http://www.thirdway.org/data/product/file/21/taking_back_2nd_amendment.pdf
Even if you agree with his views on the issue, how he is presenting them shows he is hardly some new breeze of change blowing through Washington. He's simply a more appealing Ted Kennedy or Dick Durbin, and if that's the change you want I'm sure he'll try to deliver it for you.
Charon
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dred.. that is really admirable that you are a man who is not swayed by.. uh.. the way a politician votes and who he has as mentors and the things he has said in the past.
It is the greatest of thinkers like yourself who can ignore all that and go by what they say in their final scripted speeches.
charon beat me to it but it is a great example of your thinking.. the whole gun control thing.. You say "hey.. he said he just wants to keep machine guns out of the hands of criminals.. that is good enough for me"
When in fact.. even a cursory glance at his voting record and things he has said in the past show that he wants to destroy the meaning of the second amendment and is probably one of the biggest enemies of the second amendment that every existed.
If he only wanted to keep machine guns out of the hands of criminals.. and left the rest of us alone.. He would be getting the strongest support from the NRA in its history.
Sorry.. your basing what the guy believes and is going to do on one speech and ignoring all the evidence is not what I would describe as one of those rare "thinking man" things.
You simply seem to be one of those people who are easily fooled.
It is the same with the liberal socialist radicals and amerihaters he has grow up with and surrounded himself with.. if your daughter hung out with a bad crowd.. you would think something was wrong wouldn't you?
sure.. as soon as the limelight is on them he tries to distance himself.. much as his wife who says that she was never proud of America now claims to be it's biggest fan.
I am a thinking man too.. I have no love for Mccain.. he has his flaws but.. I don't judge either by their scripted and ghost written speeches but but the content of their character and the the people they admired and the way they voted and the things they said when they weren't running for pres.
The osamaba is a liar. worse than most politicians.. He votes against me so I will vote against him.
I don't think a lot of people will be fooled by any politician tho.. there will be some.. those who claim to "think" will be fooled..
The rest? the negros and illegals will vote straight party ticket. the unions.. especially the ones who get a lot for a little like the teachers will vote straight party democrat.
Those who like liberal socialism will vote for osamaba.. those who do not will not vote for him.
If he wins or not will be determined by how far down the slippery slope of socialism we have fallen. How whiney and dependent we have become and how far we have strayed from individual responsibility.
lazs
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just curious... will you be counting McCain's?
I Don't know. You could tell Obama was nervous at first...guess thats why he kept saying "thank you" so much.
If McCain says it more than five times I will start the count down.
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I watched, hoping for something good to happen. Rhetoric was good and entertaining but totally lacked specifics of any kind. Im beginning to think there may indeed be something to the blog speculation that Obama and his wife are Marxists, and that they are hiding their real intentions from the American people.
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He whips out the sitting on their hands while a city drowns rhetoric.
He was talking about the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana, right?
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well.. of course they are marxists.. how else could they stand to be around all the marxists that they have been around?
I don't know if this is a good thing but.. they may not even know they are marxists.
With the pick of Palin by Mccain.. the whole democrat circus that was the convention and speech will be forgotten and everyone will get back to wondering just how much left wing stuff they can take if the guy gets elected.
lazs
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Headlines in today's paper: GDP up by 3.2% during the last fiscal year.
Doesn't sound like a depression to me.
The speech was well delivered....but the same old same old. New programs to help out those in need. Soak the rich....tax cuts to the middle class (Clinton promised them too....then reneged after he was elected.)
On cnn this morning
inflation rate is highest it has been in 17 years
GDP is up because of the devaluation of the dollar - not such a bad thing - helps USA industry - maybe american produced products will become a reality again
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Obama also lied in the speech (or he is dumber then I thought). He said he wants 'to end capital gains taxes on small businesses.' Small businesses dont pay capital gains taxes they pay income taxes. He is counting on Americans not to be bright enough to know the difference. Instead he will raise income taxes on these businesses and this is the one area that there is growth in the country right now. Perfect! Lets make sure the choke hold on America stays in place and vote another 'raise your taxes till it hurts' politician into office.
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He whips out the sitting on their hands while a city drowns rhetoric.
He was talking about the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana, right?
Something else, I think.
(http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/davidcorn/McCain-Bush%20photo.jpg)
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Well dont worry sandman what Katrina failed to swamp another storm will succeed in washing away. Maybe next time the Governor of the state will call for help sooner.
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" If he only wanted to keep machine guns out of the hands of criminals.. and left the rest of us alone.. He would be getting the strongest support from the NRA in its history."
I call BS
Why is the NRA against handgun laws in chicago?
Why are the ones who call everyone amerihaters the ones who are most afraid of "Their" government taking away their guns and turning their country into a dictatorship?
Loons - your'e all loons
...........
Making popcorn to read all the paranoid - save my gun rights, cuz ya can't trust anyone peeps to respond.....
NwBie
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ______
"I gotta quit this game, too many damn hillbillies" - WMxray
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Congress should make no laws prohibiting the right to own or bear arms (not a direct quote). Thats pretty easy to understand isnt it? Congress has gone way way beyond the founding fathers limits already. The NRA is right to hold them to a higher standard.
You know if you used logic instead of insult to support your position you might get somewhere.
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Congress should make no laws prohibiting the right to own or bear arms (not a direct quote). Thats pretty easy to understand isnt it? Congress has gone way way beyond the founding fathers limits already. The NRA is right to hold them to a higher standard.
You know if you used logic instead of insult to support your position you might get somewhere.
If that is a response to my post - see below - if not - ignore
______
The post is in response to what was quoted in my post
I still call BS
/and I read the context of the post before a jackboot response
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You know if you used logic instead of insult to support your position you might get somewhere.
This part was in response to you and not the other but feel free to continue on.
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This part was in response to you and not the other but feel free to continue on.
ooooohhh kkkaaayyy
First...show me the logic in your response
then I'll play your game
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Congress should make no laws prohibiting the right to own or bear arms (not a direct quote).
That's the itchy part about law. If you're going to quote it, you're probably best to quote it exactly and not simply your interpretation.
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Or you could quote Heller v DC where all 9 Supremes affirmed the 2nd as an individual right.
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Why is the NRA against handgun laws in chicago?
For the same reason they were/are against handgun laws everywhere.
Or you could quote Heller v DC where all 9 Supremes affirmed the 2nd as an individual right.
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That's the itchy part about law. If you're going to quote it, you're probably best to quote it exactly and not simply your interpretation.
well yeah, but still a pretty cool statement :aok
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That's the itchy part about law. If you're going to quote it, you're probably best to quote it exactly and not simply your interpretation.
shall being the important part :aok
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well yeah, but still a pretty cool statement :aok
LOL. Okay. I'll give you that.
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LOL. Okay. I'll give you that.
Im not sure why but it reminded me of something Austen Powers would say.......
Allow myself to introduce.....(vacant pause), myself :aok
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ah yes election year, the time has come to wade though tons and tons of bs, watch politians sell out babies and sometimes there own families for ratings, or to show their "sensitive" side or how they embrace "family values." (as if the other guy doesn't have any values). I'm undecided as of yet, but at least this year we have something slightly new to watch... a new guy with old guy, and an old guy with a new girl.
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Headlines in today's paper: GDP up by 3.2% during the last fiscal year.
Doesn't sound like a depression to me.
The speech was well delivered....but the same old same old. New programs to help out those in need. Soak the rich....tax cuts to the middle class (Clinton promised them too....then reneged after he was elected.)
Love the misquotes
Actually what he said was to close coorperate loopholes in the tax system. Not always a good thing but Not always a bad thing either.
And giving subsidies to those who could just as easily afford it themselves Doesnt always make a ton of sense either.Unless of course your a stockholder in one of those companies.
But one thing the right always touts and I totally agree with. Is people being able to do for themselves and not count on a government handout.
But to be fair that should also hold true for the very rich and corporations as well.
Personally
I'd rather see subsidies go to the up and comming, the future. rather then the already established.
And he claimed tax cuts for 95% of working families while cutting programs that dont work (regardless of the administration there certainly seems to be enough of these)
C'mon man even 95% of Fox News is saying it wasnt the same old same old kind of speech.
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From Obama's Denver Speech:
...John McCain likes to say that he'll follow bin Laden to the Gates of Hell - but he won't even go to the cave where he lives.
What's that supposed to mean?
Does it mean that Obama would go have a glass of goat milk with bin Laden and talk about life in his cave home and McCain wouldn't?
Or is he implying that McCain would not take out bin Laden if he in fact knew where he was (like Clinton)?
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dred.. that is really admirable that you are a man who is not swayed by.. uh.. the way a politician votes and who he has as mentors and the things he has said in the past.
It is the greatest of thinkers like yourself who can ignore all that and go by what they say in their final scripted speeches.
lazs
dont know if I said it in this thread or another.
"What he says and what he does may be entirely two different things"
and " am am not going to base my decision on only a few issues. Particularly not the two that arent likely to change much anyway (guns and abortion)
But rather the whole package"
Your making like I am ready to run out and vote for him. Im not ready to run out and vote for anyone.
McCains voting record is less then stellar as well about issues that do matter.
A few examples
Voted against Lobbying and Donation Regulations. a bill that increases regulations on members of Congress regarding lobbyists and donations
whch included but are not exlusive to..
Requiring candidate committees, leadership PAC's, and political party committees to disclose bundled contributions by a lobbyist totaling over $15,000 within a six-month period.[Title II (Sec. 204)].
Prohibits any member of Congress from participating in the Civil Service Retirement System if convicted of bribery, fraud, perjury, corruption, conspiracy or other related offenses.[Title IV (Sec. 401 [a])].
Requires that Senators who submit earmark requests on a bill or committee report be identified as the sponsor of their requests on a publicly accessible congressional website at least 48 hours before the item comes to a vote [Tile V (Sec. 521)].
Vote to adopt an amendment that creates a special committee to investigate the awarding of contracts in Afghanistan and Iraq taking into consideration: bidding, methods of contracting, subcontracting, oversight procedures, allegations of wasteful practices, accountability and lessons learned in Afghanistan and Iraq
Voted against
Price-Gouging During Emergencies Amendment
Vote on a motion to waive the Budget Act in order to adopt an amendment that makes it illegal to sell crude oil, gasoline, or petroleum distillates at a price that is excessive or takes unfair advantage during a declared state of emergency.
Voted against
Corporate Financing of Terrorism Amendment
Vote to adopt an amendment that makes U.S. businesses and their subsidiaries liable to prosecution for dealing with foreign businesses which have links to terrorism or whose parent country supports terrorism.
And one that really burns my butt
Voted NO
Denying Legal Status for Immigrants Convicted of Certain Crimes
Vote to pass an amendment that would prohibit undocumented immigrants convicted of aggravated felonies, domestic violence, stalking, violation of protection orders, crimes against children, or crimes relating to the illegal purchase or sale of firearms, from gaining legal status.
As I said in another post. Each side has plus's and minus's.
The second amendment is a plus for me. yes. but with all due respect. unlike you it is not everything. Particularly when its not likely to go anywhere even with him in office. I remember more then 30 years ago watching All in the Family and Archie arguing with Gloria over guns that classic line "would it make you any happier little goyl if they was thrown out of windas?" That was more then 30 years ago. And in spite of just a few administration changes. I'm still hearing the same arguments.
And 30+ years from now I'll probably still be hearing the same arguments.
So many things have to happen just right for the second to be significantly changed that its highly unlikely it will.
Instead it will go back and forth like it always does
Even the appointment of SC Judges is no small feat.
Look at it this way.
Since and including the time Carter first took office. The Republicans have had Their president in office 20 of the last 32 years.
And for all their "Pro life" rhetoric. They STILL havent gotten Roe V Wade overturned.
And Im supposed to beleive that Obama is going to suddenly wave a magic wand and get all the necessary people that would needed on board make gun rights go away?
And what would he do that the next Republican pres wouldnt undo? (That assault weapon ban really stuck now didnt it?)
C'mon dude. Your much brighter then that. I know. I've seen it.
With that in mind Im not basing my decision on 1 or two or even three issues alone.
As for voting records. Each votes almost strictly along party lines. Big whoop.
Obama 96%.
Contrary to popular beleif. McCain is hardly a rebel. In the current congress he has voted along party lines 88.3% of the time. http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/
thats what? a whole 7.7% difference?? Wowww
WOOOooo. Real rebel.
If that makes him a rebel. then the fact that I eat meat 85% of the time means Im a vegetarian.
Drop that number down to 70% and I'll be impressed.
By the same token. Obama is no winner either.
I could list his things as as well. But Im not trying to take part in this mutual admiration society. And I'd just be feeding the resident rah rah club.
I am trying to look at it all in an unbiased manner
2nd amendment and abortion aside
Each has taken positions I do not like on some things. And do agree with on others.
So far I still dont think either of them is the lessor of all evils.
I may just "waste" my vote on an independent out of pure disgust.
Finally. My comments were made specifically on what he said in his speech. Which was what my comments were all about. The speech.
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Charon and Laz.
You two seemingly being obsessed with the second.
Seems to be your primary reason for voting.
And you have also made mention of being "pro life"
I have a question for you.
The hitch is. No inbetween answers, no "I wouldnt vote"
The only legitimate answer can be one. or the other.
If you were faced with two candidates. and ONLY two.
and you had to vote for one or the other.
Candidate 1
If he gets elected you will haveyour gun rights just as you see they should be. And they would be that way always and forever
The flipside to this is Abortion would be always and forever legal
Candidate 2 If he gets elected. Abortion would be completely outlawed. Again. always and forever.
But. So would gun ownership. always and forever.
Which of the two would you vote for?
Just how important are guns for you?
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Big :salute to Drediock for making good points in this thread.
You said everything i would have.
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Dred.. I share your reservations about McCain. I've got him scored even worse than you. I've been looking at the 'chief executive' position as but a piece of the larger picture of the entire election... balanced against what I think the near and long term challenges to the nation will be. 'Greater Good' crap.
The chess game looks to me like the dems will get meaningful control of both houses this election cycle. Counter: Republican President. Add in the Supreme Court appointments (two old liberals due to retire) and we score another reason for a republican president.
Having a Democratic House and Senate, Obama as President and a Liberal Court will likely kill the damn country.
So..... from the chess game angle; looks to me like putting anybody BUT Obama in the White House is the smart move.
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Hi Hangtime ,
Here is some more fire to add to the chess game angle...
Here is part of an email that was sent to me this evening,
Regards,
CHECKERS
Dred.. I share your reservations about McCain. I've got him scored even worse than you. I've been looking at the 'chief executive' position as but a piece of the larger picture of the entire election... balanced against what I think the near and long term challenges to the nation will be. 'Greater Good' crap.
The chess game looks to me like the dems will get meaningful control of both houses this election cycle. Counter: Republican President. Add in the Supreme Court appointments (two old liberals due to retire) and we score another reason for a republican president.
Having a Democratic House and Senate, Obama as President and a Liberal Court will likely kill the damn country.
So..... from the chess game angle; looks to me like putting anybody BUT Obama in the White House is the smart move.
2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON
2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS
ISSUE JOHN McCAIN BARAK OBAMA
Favors new drilling offshore US Yes No
Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it Yes No
Served in the US Armed Forces Yes No
Amount of time served in the US Senate 22 YEARS 173 DAYS
Will institute a socialized national health care plan No Yes
Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy No Yes
Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately No Yes
Supports gun ownership rights Yes No
Supports homosexual marriage No Yes
Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase No Yes
Voted against making English the official language No Yes
Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals No Yes
CAPITAL GAINS TAX
MCCAIN 0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
OBAMA 28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)
DIVIDEND TAX
MCCAIN 15% (no change)
OBAMA 39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')
INCOME TAX
MCCAIN
(no changes) Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts) Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!
INHERITANCE TAX
MCCAIN - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.
NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA
New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!
And this says nothing about stripping of the DoD, appeasement of the terrorists, and loss of US sovereignty under “world citizen” Obama’s relinquishment of US rights to the UN and World Court . Nor does it talk of loss of rights in “Fairness Laws” which are only fair to the minority.
You can verify the above at the following web sites:
http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html
http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/
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Hi Hangtime ,
Here is some more fire to add to the chess game angle...
Here is part of an email that was sent to me this evening,
Regards,
CHECKERS
2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON
2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS
ISSUE JOHN McCAIN BARAK OBAMA
Favors new drilling offshore US Yes No
Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it Yes No
Served in the US Armed Forces Yes No
Amount of time served in the US Senate 22 YEARS 173 DAYS
Will institute a socialized national health care plan No Yes
Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy No Yes
Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately No Yes
Supports gun ownership rights Yes No
Supports homosexual marriage No Yes
Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase No Yes
Voted against making English the official language No Yes
Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals No Yes
CAPITAL GAINS TAX
MCCAIN 0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
OBAMA 28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)
DIVIDEND TAX
MCCAIN 15% (no change)
OBAMA 39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')
INCOME TAX
MCCAIN
(no changes) Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts) Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!
INHERITANCE TAX
MCCAIN - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.
NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA
New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!
And this says nothing about stripping of the DoD, appeasement of the terrorists, and loss of US sovereignty under “world citizen” Obama’s relinquishment of US rights to the UN and World Court . Nor does it talk of loss of rights in “Fairness Laws” which are only fair to the minority.
You can verify the above at the following web sites:
http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html
http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/
This particular email has been debunked at least four times on these BBS boards. Yet it still comes back. Amazing.
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This particular email has been debunked at least four times on these BBS boards. Yet it still comes back. Amazing.
the biggest thing that amazes me is what a european pundit said about our election. Paraphrasing,
I don't even know why the Americans are still having this election. On one side you have a lawyer who is married to a lawyer and on the other side is a war hero married to a good looking rich woman who owns a beer distributorship!
The one who makes the best decisions is obvious.
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Dred.. I share your reservations about McCain. n the White House is the smart move.
How the hell can you even remotely compare McCain to Obama....
unless of course.....your Jimmeh Caughta
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Unless of course.....your Jimmeh Caughta
I remember being chastised by my dad for not paying attention when jimmeh Caughta addressed the nation telling us prime time of the failure at desert one.
That loser Carter! I will always remember those Eight brave souls that gave all at Desert one...
Carter the dipshit in chief. I was there, I remember!
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How the hell can you even remotely compare McCain to Obama....
unless of course.....your Jimmeh Caughta
LOL.. I guess I wasn't clear in my post... in a 'do least harm' pick, I'd pick McCain. Was the post that unclear? damn..