Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: nonaste on August 29, 2008, 12:30:07 PM
-
Can anybody please make a recommendation for a good fighter for a beginner? Thanks.
-
Spit 16 would be the easy mode plane but I think if you learn to BnZ alil in a Typh it will help you out alil in the long run. It isnt the fastest bnz plane but it has a good climb rate which makes you become aware of the E of the other planes around you. I think flying made me more situationally aware
:salute
-
Fly a P38 I believe they are easy mode :lol.
<---- edit I inserted the smilie incase anyone missed my comedy genius.
-
Fly a P38 I believe they are easy mode :lol.
I think I missed it. So, I guess my question is: are you serious?
-
P38 is a tricky bird but I got alove hate relationship with that broad, she is like that fat chick that you keepgoing back to. :rofl
-
Seriously I would suggest the Spit IX if you like to mix it up and turn fight.
If you want to hit and run I suggest FW190D / P51D.
LA7 has to be the fastest non perked ride on the deck and very good at turning.
The Niki climbs and turns well and has alot of ammo to waste.
All of the planes in AH have a purpose and a strength, its a long hard journey of finding out the limits of each and then using them to your advantage.
-
Seriously I would suggest the Spit IX if you like to mix it up and turn fight.
If you want to hit and run I suggest FW190D / P51D.
LA7 has to be the fastest non perked ride on the deck and very good at turning.
The Niki climbs and turns well and has alot of ammo to waste.
All of the planes in AH have a purpose and a strength, its a long hard journey of finding out the limits of each and then using them to your advantage.
Thanks fellas. And I appreciate the variety you offer here. A bird for every occasion. My skills are limited at this time, severly, so I'll try the turn and burn ride to begin.
That long hard journey comment. Brother, aint that the truth??!!!!!
What does "non perked" mean?
-
Hey bro if you ever want to wing up,ill teach you my uber picking skillz :lol just pm me
-
Hey bro if you ever want to wing up,ill teach you my uber picking skillz :lol just pm me
Thanks JunkyII. I appreciate the offer. :aok
-
there are some "perked" planes such as the Tempest, Spit 14, F4u1C hog, me 262 (jet) and me163 (komet).
You have to acquire perks by downing enemy aircraft and you can spend them on the above planes, you will lose the perks if you dont return them to base safely.
The older planes you fly, the higher ENY values, will earn you more depending on what enemy types you kill and how many players are on the other team.
For example SPIT XVI has eny 5 and a Spit IX has 20. You will earn more perks killing with the spit IX.
-
What does "non perked" mean?
"Perk" points are attached to certain high performing aircraft. To fly those aircraft, you need to put as many of your own perk points on the line as the plane is worth. If you fly it, and land it successfully, you get your points back. A ditch I believe is half your perks back, and a death you lose all the perk points you put down for that flight. An aircraft may have a low perk point value, such as 15, or a high value, such as 200. The values vary slightly for the planeset as a whole at any given time in the arena due to numbers imbalance (your side has the lower numbers, ALL perk point values for your side are reduced)
You obtain perk points from kills. In fighter mode (ask someone else about other modes) a kill will get you perk points. Assists do not. Just how many you get is decided by what plane you were flying vs. what plane you shot down when the kill occurred. You get more points for shooting down a higher performing aircraft in a lower performing one. It can get complicated, so just leave it simply at that.
Back to your original question. Fly the Spit 8 or 9. I've found the 9 to have slightly better roll rate and is a little more stable, but the 8 performs better.
However, if you want to get into 109's, go with the 109F at first. Starting with the G series usually leaves new players discouraged from 109's, but the F is a little easier on beginners.
-
Can anybody please make a recommendation for a good fighter for a beginner? Thanks.
As someone else suggested ... the Spit IX ... is a great place to start ... you can get use to the AH flight characteristics and at the same time, have some survivability along with some punch (20mm cannons) to get the job done.
Pros - very forgiving while flying it ... has decent speed/climb ... good cannons (but not much of them).
Cons - Low 20mm ammo load ... not great over-the-nose tracking.
Another one would be the N1K-2 ...
Pros - very forgiving while flying it ... has decent speed/climb ... great cannons
Cons - Most AH snobs wouldn't piss on ya if you were on fire for flying a N1K.
Another ... the F6F ...
Pros - somewhat forgiving while flying it ... has decent speed/climb ... great zoom ... carries a lot of ordiance and when that is gone, it is a very capable fighter.
Cons - Some think that .50 cal planes are not worth looking at (obviously not the same punch as a cannon bird)
Flying Spits and N1Ks are considered "dweeby" buy a certain sect within Aces High ... pay no mind to them ... fly whatever you want. Most who use these planes to "start" out with, usually move onto other planes that are in the hanger.
-
As I'm still a noob myself, so I'll throw my recommendation in here.
Absolute first thing: Read the info on the trainers website and set up your views as it describes or get with a trainer in the Training Arena and let them help you set up your views. Regardless of what you fly, you cannot kill your enemy if you cannot see him. Well, eventually you may be able to, but you won't be able to right now...
Next thing is to turn the stall limiter off. I did not, and ended up having to relearn how to fly once I realized that everyone was right and it was seriously limiting my flying by having it on.
Now, to your actual question. In the beginning, new players almost always find themselves on the deck, slow and desperately trying to flat turn their way out of trouble.
...wait, that's still what I do :O
Anyway, for doing that, the best aircraft is really the A6M zero. While the A6M2 is a better turner, the A6M5 is a better platform and will out-turn anything else but an A6M2. Of course, people in bombers are going to look like they are out-turning you, but they are really just out-flying you. You won't be able to run away or run anyting down, but you really don't need to be running from fights anyway and treat anything that runs away from you as a victory. You can also climb like crazy, so try to think "up, Up, UP!" to yourself while you are fighting. Just don't go up with someone on your six...
After a while you will probably want to graduate to something that can take a little more damage, is a little faster and has better guns. That means the N1K2-J, Spitfire Mk VIII or Spitfire Mk IX among others. I would rank them Spit 8, Nikki, Spit 9, but that is only my opinion. The 109's are good, but require constant throttle work to be effective. The P-38 is good, but requires a smooth hand on the controls, constant flap work and good energy conservation skills. Really, the key is to fly something that you enjoy and stick with it for a while. Go to the training arena and try out several planes. Or all the planes. You can have all the planes you want for free, so there is no reason not to experiment.
One last additional piece of advice that you did not ask for is to completely ignore your score. Other than your gunnery hit percentage, the rest is really meaningless. Go have fun.
-
I would suggest you start out in a spitfire. I did in spit5, but spit9s got a better cannon load now (didn't always).
What I would like to stress here is that it doesn't matter what plane you start out in. For obvious reasons already mentioned, its best to begin in a forgiving plane, and a spits as forgiving as it gets.
What really matters imho is whilst you've got the training wheels on, try out different fighting styles.
There are more than one ways to skin a cat.
Aerial battles are not about chasing each other in circles till soemone dies. Thats just the plain-old "turn and burn" (TnB) style. Spits are well above average in turning and you can do well in that department quite easily in a spit.
There are aircraft like the 190 or P51 or typhoon which are excellent at diving in at high speeds, blowing a lower or slower enemy to shreds and climbing back to their perch. That is Boom n Zoom (BnZ) fighting (well not exactly but in a nutshell anyway). Spits arent the best BnZ but they aren't the worst either.
Other aircraft like the P38 or KI84 are good energy fighters. This is a more complex fighting style and involves both BnZ and TnB style maneuvers.
The spits are best beginners imho, because you can try out all three styles as you progress in basic flying skills without moving about from plane to plane. Find a style you like or are good at and then you will naturally progress to a plane which does that bit better.
What I'm trying to say is start in a spit, but don't limit yourself to being a "Turning guy" only.
:salute
-
1) turn off the stall limiter in preferences ----> flight
2) save head positions using your arrow keys and hitting f10
3) hit shift + f1 for full vis view
-
Spit IX. You can E fight and turn fight in it. It's best to learn all aspects of aerial combat so you don't get burnt out as fast.
Also, pay more attention to what the Trainer suggest instead of listening to what the rest of us dweebs say.
-
1) turn off the stall limiter in preferences ----> flight
2) save head positions using your arrow keys and hitting f10
3) hit shift + f1 for full vis view
Lots of really informative answers. Thanks.
-
I believe the SpitVIII would be a superior choice to either the XVI or IX.
It has much the same climb rate and acceleration as the XVI, but is more stable in the turn and as a gun platform. You won't get ENYed out of flying it very often either.
It also has the longest range of any Spit, giving you up to 32 minutes of flight time at Military power in the main arena.
-
Spit IX. You can E fight and turn fight in it. It's best to learn all aspects of aerial combat so you don't get burnt out as fast.
Also, pay more attention to what the Trainer suggest instead of listening to what the rest of us dweebs say.
Best advice posted in this thread, especially about listening and seeking the advice/assistance of a trainer.
ack-ack
-
Genericly I always suggest the N1K2 with Spit varients 8,9, or 16 as a close second. They are all versitile for the fighter tactics they can be used for, and have forgiving flight characteristics. Sometimes a new player asks with a particular fighting style, country, or model in mind which may have me guide them to other planes. But the planes I mentioned are good for getting combat "seat time" in AH and allowing the best chance at finding some sucess and progress while getting a feel for the flight model.
-
Genericly I always suggest the N1K2 with Spit varients 8,9, or 16 as a close second. They are all versitile for the fighter tactics they can be used for, and have forgiving flight characteristics. Sometimes a new player asks with a particular fighting style, country, or model in mind which may have me guide them to other planes. But the planes I mentioned are good for getting combat "seat time" in AH and allowing the best chance at finding some sucess and progress while getting a feel for the flight model.
Great. Thanks.
-
the 38 i found was the easyist to fly in the begining and was good because there is no convergince issues
-
Spit 16 would be the easy mode plane but I think if you learn to BnZ alil in a Typh it will help you out alil in the long run. It isnt the fastest bnz plane but it has a good climb rate which makes you become aware of the E of the other planes around you. I think flying made me more situationally aware
:salute
You're the first person I've ever heard say a Typhoon would be a good starter plane. Honestly, it's not a great plane at anything other than the 4 X Hizookas.
1) Mediocre Range
2) Mediocre Climb
3) Decent Acceleration
4) Horrendous Rollrate
5) Mediocre Turnrate
6) Good Nose-low Deflection View
7) Good Control in Dives
8 )Bad Control Slow/Departs easily
9) Relatively Short Clip
10 Low Endurance
The problem for the Typhoon is its niche is occupied by several better planes like the La7, PonyD, Fw190D and 109K. So, between the low ammo and gas you've got to kill the right planes at the time to avoid ending up bingo and no way to rtb. I definitely would not recommend a Typhoon to a new players. It's a medium to a medium-advanced plane.
-
I would advise starting with a combo of the A6Ms, N1K, and KI-84. Study what these airframes are best at, here on the BBS (and even better Soda's Eval site). Then practice at using them for their strengths.
I would be inclined to tell you to learn the KI-84 more then the N1K, but that's just my preference.
-
Disregard.
That doesn't make any sense, I know but I couldn't just delete the post.
-
Re: Niki vs. Spit.
I would suggest the Spit 9 or 8 as a "starter" ride over the Niki. (and i'm a die hard niki flyer)
I can do things in a Spit 9/8 that I can't in the Niki.
-
Easily, Spit 8,9 or 16. You can make mistakes in them and get away with it that you won't in any other fighter. Great for learning all aspects of ACM.
<S>...-Gixer
-
I would suggest the Spit 9 or 8 as a "starter" ride over the Niki. (and i'm a die hard niki flyer)
But then you don't have to spend time breaking them of the spit habit of "avoid stalling nose up in the verticle like the plauge" when they want to learn to fly other planes. N1K also has multi-stage flaps, and 20 more seconds of firing time. I suggest either, but the N1K transitions to other airframes better.
-
But then you don't have to spend time breaking them of the spit habit of "avoid stalling nose up in the verticle like the plauge" when they want to learn to fly other planes. N1K also has multi-stage flaps, and 20 more seconds of firing time. I suggest either, but the N1K transitions to other airframes better.
strongly agree. spits may be better in the turn, but you seem to get dependent on them. after 2 yrs of flying, if i do a couple sorties in a la or spit 16 to break cap or what ever, i seem to get dependant on them. as murdr said, the nikki has a better airframe, more fire time, more cannon to get used to shooting targets and pulling lead, and most of all, it dives better, go faster and pull out easier :D
-
I think the answer comes down to whether the rookie "learns" in an easy mode plane or learns in a medium easy mode plane.
I never recommend a zeek, spit16, la7 or even the niki to new players. I think it is best in the long run to work a little harder in the beggining flying a mediocre plane and seek the help of the many excellant trainers. This way you will develop core acm skills that will eventually lead you to more fun and a better kill ratio. Starting off in a spit16 will do nothing to teach you how to out maneuver a better plane in an inferior one.
I also recommend a new player PICK A RIDE...any ride really (besides the aformentioned ones) and stick with that plane for atleast one tour. If you bounce from plane to plane it is much harder to understand the angles/energy of acm. You will always be confused. If you stick with one plane in the beggining it will be much easier to read all the clues....to judge energy and angles.
At the advanced level of flying it becomes crystal clear that what wins a fight is not so much the plane but how you enter the fight to start with and how you fly against the enemy.
Reverse engineering this theory you get back to the simple basics.....judging the energy of yours and the enemy plane and understanding the actual angles of closure and turn. This basic fundamental skill is the root of all engagements.
Learning in a "easy" plane will not teach you this. Just learining what a stall turn, wingover, yo-yo, immel, etc is not enough.
The only way to really become proficient is to study the energy and angles....to consider how I must maneuver in relation to the other plane. A spit16 will do you no good against an inferior plane if you cant understand energy and angles.
The key is to pick one plane and learn that first. Then fly others AFTER you have become good ant your first plane. And again be sure to contact a trainer. This is the most important thing. A trainer will reduce your learning curve by months and make your playing experience much more fun.
Agent360
-
Spit IX.
The XVI is unstable at low speeds and wants to snap roll when slow. The XIII's roll rate is horrendous in comparison to the other Spits (except the I) and requires a lot of rudder authority and anticipation of your opponent's moves.
The IX, while a bit slower than the XIII and XVI is smoother to fly and the most forgiving. It will still allow you to fly TnB, BnZ and energy fights until you understand your preferred fighting style and half the planeset is faster so you'll be challenged to learn to fight and win rather than run (and it will give you a good chance to do so).
-
wrong thread :o
-
Starting off in a spit16 will do nothing to teach you how to out maneuver a better plane in an inferior one.
Which is good, because that's not really on the "beginner" adjenda. There are plenty of more basic skills to tackle first. Like keeping sight of the bogie. Making the plane go where you need it to go while looking anywhere but forward. Like living long enough to gain some spatial awareness, and reading the 3d positioning from the cockpit view. Learning the flight model, and getting a feel for riding the edge of controled flight, while still focusing primary attention to what's going on outside the cockpit. If one can't out maneuver an inferior plane with a better one first, then there's no hope of doing it vice-versa without troubleshooting their mistakes.
-
If one can't out maneuver an inferior plane with a better one first, then there's no hope of doing it vice-versa without troubleshooting their mistakes.
Very well put Murdr Sir :salute
-
Thing about the P-38 is it does everything fairly good.
Its a very good Jabo and carrys a lot of ords. It turns better then a fair amount of other planes, climbs better then a fair amount, dives better then anything, rolls very well, has great range and last the old girl can take some damage and make it back home. It has decent visibility once you get used to it and anything within 800 yrds of its fierce nose guns is a candidate for a splash. Its also a great perk builder.
But mostly, and maybe its just me, but when Im in a 38 and see another plane my brain goes into E=MC2 mode and I almost instantly figure a weakness to try and exploit with the Lightening. There is a weakness the 38 can exploit in almost every other airplane. Thats the real strength of flying the Yank multi-use tools of WW-ll.
I hope one day I can get real good in the 38. I believe its a great starters airplane, and even better then the Spits.
-
Thing about the P-38 is it does everything fairly good.
Its a very good Jabo and carrys a lot of ords. It turns better then a fair amount of other planes, climbs better then a fair amount, dives better then anything, rolls very well, has great range and last the old girl can take some damage and make it back home. It has decent visibility once you get used to it and anything within 800 yrds of its fierce nose guns is a candidate for a splash. Its also a great perk builder.
But mostly, and maybe its just me, but when Im in a 38 and see another plane my brain goes into E=MC2 mode and I almost instantly figure a weakness to try and exploit with the Lightening. There is a weakness the 38 can exploit in almost every other airplane. Thats the real strength of flying the Yank multi-use tools of WW-ll.
I hope one day I can get real good in the 38. I believe its a great starters airplane, and even better then the Spits.
ummm rich the 38 is not That good in a dive, maybe the L but like the 109's you really have to watch how fast you are getting or you can lawn dart. so i would not say that "it dives better than anything"
now a candidate for that would be the p47 at full load or the f4u. talk about acelration point a 47 nose down and you can hit 500+ mph in a few seconds
-
I only fly the L. And its great in a dive, tho its true you have to watch the speed indicators.
-
I only fly the L. And its great in a dive, tho its true you have to watch the speed indicators.
Negative Rich. All P38s suffer from compression at a relatively low speed. A good diver would be as mentioned above a P47, 190, F6F etc. Much more stable and doesn't compress until u hit some really hi speeds (500mph).
A P38 does accelerate fairly quickly in a dive, but I wouldn't count diving as one of its strengths. Maybe against something like a 109 but against something like a P47, if u diving, u pretty much dieing.
The P38L's advantage over the 38J & G in this matter are the dive flaps which assist in recovery by pitching nose up.
:salute
-
^^^ yea what he said
only much better than i did :D <S>
-
Clearly, all new pilots should fly the Spitfire XVI. :rolleyes:
-
D9 all the way!
-
Negative Rich. All P38s suffer from compression at a relatively low speed. A good diver would be as mentioned above a P47, 190, F6F etc. Much more stable and doesn't compress until u hit some really hi speeds (500mph).
A P38 does accelerate fairly quickly in a dive, but I wouldn't count diving as one of its strengths. Maybe against something like a 109 but against something like a P47, if u diving, u pretty much dieing.
The P38L's advantage over the 38J & G in this matter are the dive flaps which assist in recovery by pitching nose up.
:salute
Thats funny cause Im almost always able to stretch out in a dive, gain separation, and then go into attack mode.
Im not talking about "running", since I dont do it no how.
-
Thats funny cause Im almost always able to stretch out in a dive, gain separation, and then go into attack mode.
Im not talking about "running", since I dont do it no how.
Exactly! That's it. You gain separation. That's due to the quick acceleration of the P38. It accelerates faster than most other aircraft.
Try diving at steep angle, like 70 to 90 degrees (straight nose down). You will find that controls freeze up rather quickly, due to the 38s acceleration. Whilst a 109 may compress at lower speeds than a 38, it takes the 109 longer to get to those speeds (at least I seem to think so) which means more time to maneuver to a killing position.
Now try a 90 degree dive in a P47 or a F6F. They are rock stable. In these planes the pilot can dive straight down as an evasive maneuver. This forces you to break off your attack (else you run the risk of lawn darting) cause when you start compressing, hes still completely controllable.
-
Whilst a 109 may compress at lower speeds than a 38, it takes the 109 longer to get to those speeds (at least I seem to think so) which means more time to maneuver to a killing position.
While the 109 is no doubt a poor diver, the above is technically false.
The 109 can pull out of steep, fast dives with the help of elevator trim because it's not compression it suffers from, but heavy controls. I've surprised a good number of runstangs when they go into a dive without a lot of roll and find me still on their 6 and closing after they level out on the deck.
The 38, on the other hand, is almost uncontrollable once compression starts in. The pilot could move the controls freely without effect. For this reason I still don't understand why I see so many P-38J's when the L is clearly the superior aircraft.
Because we don't feel stick forces, very few seem to understand that poor high speed control isn't always compression, and fwiw, compression is far worse than heavy controls.
-
The 109 can pull out of steep, fast dives with the help of elevator trim
As can a P-38.
Because we don't feel stick forces, very few seem to understand that poor high speed control isn't always compression, and fwiw, compression is far worse than heavy controls.
Compressibility has been commonly used to describe numerous high speed handling problems, even though not every example it is applied to has anything to do with airflow shock waves. To the contrary, my observation is that it is fairly common knowledge on these boards that the 109s problem is related to stick force, as opposed to planes like the P-47 and P-38 having issues with mach tuck.
-
Compressibility has been commonly used to describe numerous high speed handling problems, even though not every example it is applied to has anything to do with airflow shock waves.
Thank you for making my point for me.
-
Thank you for making my point for me.
Your point that everyone else is stupid and doesn't understand? If that's the case, I don't believe I have. What I was pointing out was that historically when these issues were being first encountered in the 30's and 40's these gremlins were refered to generically as compresibility whether they truely had anything to do with the proper fluid dynamics definition or not.
So either I am one of very few, or you are making unsubstantiated assumptions.
-
Thing about the P-38 is it does everything fairly good.
rolls very well,
It will only roll well at high speeds, with the L being the best of the three due to the boosted ailerons. At low speed though, the boosted ailerons don't assist all that much and the P-38's roll is rather on the poor side. However, decent P-38 sticks can use this to their advantage but these 38 drivers turn out to be the exception rather than the norm.
I believe its a great starters airplane
It's one of the worst planes to cut your teeth on, unless you're a masochist and the frustration that goes with dying a lot.
Though a lot of us dedicated 38 drivers like to joke how EZ mode the P-38 is, in reality to a new player or even a veteran player flying the P-38 for the first time, it's anything but an EZ mode plane.
ack-ack
-
Back in the early days of Warbirds the P-38L was the uber plane of choice. Every noob was instructed to fly it. What happened? HT and Pyro had the same data, right? Did they get something wrong? Why did they change their minds? It used to turn with a SpitV.
:noid :noid :noid
-
Back in the early days of Warbirds the P-38L was the uber plane of choice. Every noob was instructed to fly it. What happened? HT and Pyro had the same data, right? Did they get something wrong? Why did they change their minds? It used to turn with a SpitV.
:noid :noid :noid
It used to turn with spits in Airwarrior also with flaps. The airframe data probably hasn't changed, but the Flight Model that data operates within has become much more sophisticated over time. IIRC, even between AHI and AHII they doubled the points of force modeled, and changes have been made on the thrust/drag model since AHII was first released.
For example, here is a screenshot from a developers version showing lift and thrust points of force:
(http://hitechcreations.com/pyro/poweron02.jpg)
The P-38 isn't a bad plane for tooling around in to learn to fly. It is also a good all around JABO platform. But when it's dropped into the MA environment under combat there are quite a bit of specific tactical considerations and plane flying tasks to load on an inexperienced player. When a player is loaded with additional "busy work" tasks along with the basic skills that they are trying to learn, it really detracts from the basic skills performance. With SA for example, the more attention devoted to managing and maintaining controled flight, the smaller the sphere of SA they can devote to what's going on around them.
When we are talking about new players, I think the last thing we want to do is summarly guide them to a situation where a high percentage may easily be frustrated. Not everyone picks things up at the same pace, or will meet with the same success than any of us may have had individually. Trust me that players interested in asking a question like this topic, tend to come back and ask for suggestions of new challenges when they feel comfortable with the basic skills they're looking for.
-
You're a new pilot, or just new to this game?
If you're a new pilot, not one familiar with flying planes in general, the Spit 9 is the best all-around starter plane.
For a new pilot, all that techno-stuff about roll rates and acceleration doesn't make much sense yet. :confused:
What you need is a plane that goes up when you pull the stick back, rolls when you move the stick to the left or right, and speeds up and slows down with corresponding movements of the throttle.
That's the Spit 9 (Spitfire IX). :aok
You don't have to think about throttle position much (just go right to wide-open). :O
You don't have to think about flaps and other things that hang off the plane.
You just point-and-shoot.
The straightforward handling characteristics will help you gain a little bit of "air sense" and you'll be able to spend more time looking outside the plane, rather than at the instrument panel.
Next piece of advice is to go into the off-line practice area and learn to take off and land. Once you get the hang of taking off and landing in a plane that models real flight characteristics, you'll feel a lot better about actually shooting at things. Also, landing and taking off a lot of times gets you used to how fast your plane climbs, how fast it has to go before you can turn well, how to make it slow down when descending, just good all-around handling of the plane. For example, not overshooting an enemy plane you're closing on from behind...well, that's kinda like slowing down to land...so you need to learn to land first. Trying to climb up to where the fight is...well, you have to take off and climb out to do that. Trying to line up on the runway at slow speed, well that's the first step to a slow turning dogfight.
Second piece of advice...get help setting up the views, the gun convergence, etc. Go to the Training Arena for that. And read more posts. That is essential, as others have already pointed out quite well.
Last piece of advice at this early stage, go into the offline practice every time you get on the game and shoot down all four of the drone planes that are circling the field. Maybe do it twice once they've respawned. It is good practice to get you oriented to pointing the plane in the right place, learning what your tracers are telling you, how much damage your bullets do and figuring out what it takes to actually shoot down one of the planes, how long your ammo lasts, etc. etc. It gets you prepped for the arenas where you are flying against real people.
Most importantly, HAVE FUN! It's a GAME! (You're a TOY!)
-
the p-51 is my favorite for #1: killing a v-bases dar #2:deacking the field. then i sneak a goon in and boom it is the rooks.
the a6m is what i have been using for turn fights but i always get killed.
the a-20 is the best gv killer available
b-17s are good for starting level bombing.
the spit 16 is great for when you got to get in the air quickly
the bf-110 is the best town killer and the early version when attacking a strategic target it will give oh so many perks.
hope this helps
sincerely,
NEARY
-
And here I was thinking that dropping bombs from Jabos was part of the game new players should learn. Gee where did I get that idea? Maybe it was the hangar where the floor is loaded with bombs and rockets. Or, maybe it was all the bombs and rockets getting dropped on the bases Im trying to upp from, or the CV Im trying to take off from. Or maybe it was the big, spanking new Jabo bomb and rocket targets up in the TA?
And I dont know where I got the idea an airplane should hold enough gas to get to a fight, after a climb out, and then have enought to get back.
And I have no idea where the idea sprang up that if a noob could fly a plane that was decent at everything then he/she himself could get decent at everything quickly. Most of all an airplane that forces you to use the verticle as if its the horizontal.
The 38 is easiest to land and take off in. Its the easiest fighter to do this in. It has guns that you just point and shoot.
But...everyones game is different. Unless all you do is furball. I might furball 20% of my time, "frankly it bores me", and for that I'd use a spit, LA, Yak, KI, Niki, or 109. Easiest plane to learn to furball in? Probably a Spit.
-
Spit IX, F4F, FM2
-
I think the best begging fighter for allot of people is the spit in all variations except the mark one! They all accelerate very well. They also are very nimble ans easy to Handel! I think to narrow it down even more you have to think what exactly are you looking for in a plane. So if we take the spit's and run with that, the 4best I would name are......(not in this order necessarily)
1) The Spit V Is the most nimble and can definitely turn the best. But It lacksin Ammo and speed.
2) The Spit VIII has a very fast low end acceleration advantage with a fairly decent top end speed too. It also is very nimble almost as good as a Spit 9 or 5.
3) The Spit IX Is for intents and purposes the same plane as the 5, but its alittle less maneuverable ans has a much more powerful engine!
4) The Spit XVI is definitely the fastest of the nonperk planes! It also has very good acceleration. As well it is fairly nimble and has a great roll rate, but because of the clipped wing and its great roll rate it can be hard for new pilots some times to control that.
Well that is my opinion I hope it helps. I have one other statement for you, on whatever plane you end up picking....... (wether it's a p51 a spitfire a n1k or any other plane) stay with it and learn every aspect before you start jumping around plane to plane! Trust me it will help to learn the manovers opposed from have to worry about how different each plane handles! Sorry if this doesn't sound completely right i was typing fast LOL!
Good luck 20mmrain
-
Best beginning fighter as you can see is going to give you a lot of different opinions.
Answers depends on your taste. What do you want to learn to do in a fighter? Will you dogfight all the time or dropping bombs? You probably haven't figured out which you like more, or rather you plan on doign both equally.
Do you have a good stick and rudder or using keyboard and mouse?
For an all around player the P38 is the best choice of plane. Rather new player or veteran.
For a new player it is very easy to fly. Its easy to land and take off, it's very easy to control in level flight. It does everything well. It's only real weaknesses are it's size (Making it an easier target to hit.) And the compression problems in too long of a dive. (something you'll learn to get past in time.)
The thing that makes the P38 hard to fly for new pilot is that it requires a decent amount of knowledge about the other planes. In general it can out turn most of the planes it can't out run, and can out run most of the planes it can't out turn. You though have to be able to quickly remember which planes can do what so yuo can exploit what advantage you have.
If you have a good trainer you can meet with regularly, and are willing to put in the time to study the other planes you'll never need any other aircraft other than the P38.
What you won't do in a P38 as a new pilot is get kills. You're going to get killed a lot.
If you don't have access to a regular trainer then this is not the plane you want to start in. This is a good third plane.
Take one of the mid range spitfires and learn to turn fight for a tour. Then take a fast plane like the P51 and learn to BnZ fight for a frame.
Then graduate to planes like the F4U or P38 which can do both. Merging the two extreme styles to become an energy fighter.
-
Whats your favourite plane???? try that 1.
It's a game, have fun,fly what you like.
Some planes are better to start in,depends on your level of flight sim experence.
Do you need to learn to land?? 38 a good choice for that,want to learn acm,spit,niki,zero and hurrie good for that.
My best advice,frequent the TA and learn all the planes in hanger.Afterall it's easier to defeat a plane if you know what it's capable of doing.Notice I said plane??? the pilot makes all the difference...
:noid
-
There's an old saying out there somewhere...."ya gots to learn to walk b4 ya'll can run".
Most folks assume you already can take off, land, turn, climb, zoom, stall, snap roll, stand on the brakes not lose sight of the guy yer flying with no matter where he goes or how he turns. We haven't started talking tactics yet. The first question is, "can you do all that"? Please reread it and then answer. If you can, what plane are you able to do that in and if so use that plane.
If you can't read on...
As previously noted, people have responded saying you want something forgiving, or easy to fly. Something you can fly and make mistakes in without falling to earth and make a big hole in the ground. If you look at Airline Pilots flying you from your home airport to grandma's in that big fancy jet you need to realize the pilot didn't walk into the airline's offices and say, "ok I'm wanna fly so where do I sign up and start flying?" He actually learned to fly in...you guessed it... an easy to fly, forgiving airplane. Unfortunately, fighters a designed with performance in mind. They go faster, turn under higher G loads without falling apart, increased visability, guns (wow!) and ride the raw edge of the performance envelope more times than you can imagine. However!!!,
HTC has given you the advantage of being able fly and crash and still get up right away to try it again.
All that being said, the more easy planes that allow you to get your feet wet faster, and also let you stay in the air longer (barring major mistakes on your part) are the Spit class and N1k's. However, some planes are also used by trainers to provide you with a particular set of flight characteristics that allow them to show you a "how-to" quickly master a flight lesson. For instance, any plane can be made to perform lead, pure and lag pursuit. A trainer might take you up in a zero to perform those maneuvers.
Things happen slower in that plane, yet it turns tight and has a decent roll rate. Combine all those together and you get a plane
that will let you "see" the maneuver quickly and clearly so you can absorb and retain the lesson and move on to the next one. After learned and it hits home, you go back into another plane a perform the same maneuver. It's an effective way to move you along in training so you can begin to enjoy dogfighting without spending as much time in the Tower.
You're the guy who wants to get his feet wet as soon as possible. WTG! If you want to get the biggest bang for your buck then take the time to head over to the Training Arena (TA) and learn whacha need to know. As you learn more you will begin using different planes but start easy and work your way. Learn the limits of each plane. As you begin to learn the limits and move to another plane to learn its limits you will begin to learn the differences between each plane and what their comparative strengths and weaknesses are. If you currently think there is a lot to learn you may find out there is 10x more than that. That's what makes the game so great. It's like a really really fast chess game. Each move has a counter move. You can set up a strategy on how you plan to shoot that other dude down before you ever get to the merge and the "fights on". The only difference between this and chess is you get to shoot the dude down iso knocking his king over on a chess board. Both are similiar in that when you "own" the dude (read pwn) you know and so does he. :)
Bottom line...get some training so you have a firm foundation to build on....
Hope this helps
Ren
Aces High II Training Corps
-
Ren, my thoughts exactly...... Tho much more elequently said.. :o
-
It used to turn with spits in Airwarrior also with flaps. The airframe data probably hasn't changed, but the Flight Model that data operates within has become much more sophisticated over time. IIRC, even between AHI and AHII they doubled the points of force modeled, and changes have been made on the thrust/drag model since AHII was first released.
For example, here is a screenshot from a developers version showing lift and thrust points of force:
(http://hitechcreations.com/pyro/poweron02.jpg)
The P-38 isn't a bad plane for tooling around in to learn to fly. It is also a good all around JABO platform. But when it's dropped into the MA environment under combat there are quite a bit of specific tactical considerations and plane flying tasks to load on an inexperienced player. When a player is loaded with additional "busy work" tasks along with the basic skills that they are trying to learn, it really detracts from the basic skills performance. With SA for example, the more attention devoted to managing and maintaining controled flight, the smaller the sphere of SA they can devote to what's going on around them.
When we are talking about new players, I think the last thing we want to do is summarly guide them to a situation where a high percentage may easily be frustrated. Not everyone picks things up at the same pace, or will meet with the same success than any of us may have had individually. Trust me that players interested in asking a question like this topic, tend to come back and ask for suggestions of new challenges when they feel comfortable with the basic skills they're looking for.
woooow i had no idea it was that complicated/sophisticated that is so cool how they do that with a computer program
-
Zeke. no wep, no running, no chasing anything down, but it's an easy ride to learn in cause it turns so well. A zeke pilot who has even the slightest clue will sweep spits, hurcs, and FM's from the sky. And that's really important cause these are the only planes that will stop and turn with you. Anything else that stops and turns is pretty much dead meat. It lands easy and will fly for ever on a full load of fuel. It will also dance when low on fuel. It doesn't dive well and pretty much stops turning at 400 mph. But that's ok too as most TnB takes place below 250. It's not terribly durable either but you learn not to HEAD ON. It has really good outward views to aid situational awareness.
Just take some time and fly a few different ones. I think half the fun is jumping in something new and seeing what it will do. A P40 is a hoot as long as you don't expect to rack up kills. As for me, just grabbing one plane and sticking with it is BORING. I jump around a lot cause it's fun from time to time to change up the fighting style. It doesn't matter what you do initially because until you have some hours in the log your going to die. A LOT. Thats just my opinion, I never bothered to learn spits.
-
For what it's worth, I think the 109G-2 is a spectacular aircraft to start in (other then the less then average gun package).
It's going to be VERY hard to take down a crack G2 pilot.
-
I believe its a great starters airplane, and even better then the Spits.
It's a terrible plane to recommend for new players. The P-38 is honestly a medium and above skill fighter, a new player will just be fodder in it and will quickly grow frustrated and either move to another airplane or quit the game. It's best if a new player becomes familiar with the flight model in a plane that is more accomodating to the new flyer and learn the concepts of BFM/ACM before moving on to a more advanced fighter like the P-38.
ack-ack
-
Negative Rich. All P38s suffer from compression at a relatively low speed. A good diver would be as mentioned above a P47, 190, F6F etc. Much more stable and doesn't compress until u hit some really hi speeds (500mph).
The only time a P-38 will enter into a compressability state is if it begins a high dive above 20,000ft because the mach threshold is lower at that altitude and keeps getting lower the higher you go up. The lower you go (20,000ft and below), the mach threshold is higher and the P-38 won't enter into a compressability state. As Murdr pointed out in his previous post, a lot mistake things such as high speed buffets and the like (Murdr's example of the Bf 109) with compressability. I don't know if it exists anymore but many years ago I posted in here a guideline of the speeds and altitudes you need to be at to enter into compressability while flying the P-38, if it's still around these boards somewhere it's a good guide to use.
A P38 does accelerate fairly quickly in a dive, but I wouldn't count diving as one of its strengths. Maybe against something like a 109 but against something like a P47, if u diving, u pretty much dieing.
Really depends on the pilot at the controls of the P-38. I have no troubles whatsover following anyone in a dive, especially P-47s. I can easily get the P-38 to 500mph IAS and still retain enough control to pull out and maneuver, albeit sluggishly from the high stick forces from the speed. The key is use rudders to slow you down in the dive, jocky throttle as needed and do not start you dive at high altitudes. Follow those three pointers and you'll not enter into a compressability state. As I've always said, if you entered into compressability while flying the P-38, you screwed up big time and only have yourself to blame. YMMV.
ack-ack
-
Only time I end up in a compressed state is when I'm fighting with 2 1000 lbs still on. :eek: I know, but I just hate throwing away good ordnance !
-
For what it's worth, I think the 109G-2 is a spectacular aircraft to start in (other then the less then average gun package).
It's going to be VERY hard to take down a crack G2 pilot.
:aok