Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Getback on August 31, 2008, 07:00:51 AM
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Has anyone read the book Animal Farm? It's pretty stunning. I must confess I haven't read it entirely but I have read the skinny version with the analysis. It seems it pretty much parallels Stalins rise. A couple of statements in the analysis are what really caught my eye. Marx said, "Communism is socialism with electricity". The other being is communism doesn't work unless all the countries are under communistic rule". Having said that don't you think that many of our politicians are subscribing to that theory? How many times do you see our politicians pointing towards socialist countries as the ideal?
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I read Animal Farm a long time ago in school.
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Yes, I have read it...
But that was a LONG time ago. It was required reading for my sons in Freshman
English class... I remember talking with their teacher about, "why THIS book is
required reading?"... Never did get a reasonable answer. It was more like, "This is MY
CLASS, and I will set the lesson plan.".... Go figure huh!!!
When I was in school, we had a selection of books for end term reports. Romeo & Juliet,
Old man and the sea, Moby dick, Homers Iliad, etc, etc... Books of genuine literary importance...
I still feel that my kids were victims of a mild form of indoctrination, by a school system
that was overrun by fugitives from the 60s university Socialist movement, (bowel).... Or,
it was at least a veiled form of socialization...
What surprised me was that many ppl with kids in that class, didn't recognize it as a corollary
of the Bolshevik revolution... To them, it was just a silly book about the animals running the
farm... Who knows, maybe they just didn't care anyway...
Both my sons, in turn, received D's on their reports, from the same teacher...
I guess they didn't care either, LOL!!!
I didn't mind tho, because they were both busy at football practice :D...
RC
I think they made an animated movie of it too, didn't they???
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Hehe, when you have completed "animal farm" with the brilliant quote "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others", Orwell's "1984" is the next stop ;)
In one year, in both English and German literary analyzis, I had to go through "Moby Dick", "1984", "Christiane F" and "Die Verlorene ehre von Katarina Blum".
It was a tad depressive :(
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When I was in school, we had a selection of books for end term reports. Romeo & Juliet,
Old man and the sea, Moby dick, Homers Iliad, etc, etc... Books of genuine literary importance...
I still feel that my kids were victims of a mild form of indoctrination, by a school system
that was overrun by fugitives from the 60s university Socialist movement, (bowel).... Or,
I'm not sure of the logic of your argument. If I was conservative leaning, "Animal Farm" is one of the top ten books I'd want my kid to read! Reading "Animal Farm" and "1984" should instill in your kid a deep, life long distrust of group-think Totalitarianism, either from the left or the right.
$0.02,
Wab
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I'm not sure of the logic of your argument. If I was conservative leaning, "Animal Farm" is one of the top ten books I'd want my kid to read! Reading "Animal Farm" and "1984" should instill in your kid a deep, life long distrust of group-think Totalitarianism, either from the left or the right.
$0.02,
Wab
If kids' that read it actually bother to really try to understand the message that books like "Animal Farm" and "1984" get across...Orwell wrote them as a kind of warning against communist/marxist ideals, and to lay out how those systems' could come into power.
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Reading "Animal Farm" and "1984" should instill in your kid a deep, life long distrust of group-think Totalitarianism, either from the left or the right.
very well said, both essential reading for any child :aok
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As others have said, your next stop is "1984". Read the whole thing though, not just the cliff notes.
To answer your question, yes, there are plenty of politicians that lean toward a socialist slant both in Europe and in the U.S. Europe is further along the path of socialism than the U.S. and can be used for examples of what socialism does- both good and bad.
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Marx said, "Communism is socialism with electricity".
Really? I thought he died in the latter part of the 19th century. It doesn't sound like a Marxist statement. More like Trotsky or Lenin.
Whatever.
I tend to agree with Wabbit. Orwell came from a period where the ideals of Marx, Engals, and other 19th century economic reformists were being co-opted in the name of "classless brotherhood". He tended to lampoon the hypocrisy of the then recent emergence of Soviet communism and to some degree drew parallels that showed how demagoguery and apathy can create a frightening social construct. They do serve as an enlightening warning to those inclined to embrace conformity over conscience. But then, so does "Fear and Loathing".
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"Kids" do read 1984. We were required to read it in the 9th grade, unfortunately not everyone got the point or understood the message. What is worse is that some didn't even care.
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FALSE ADVERTISEMENT!!...
I thought this was about sheep :rofl :rofl
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"Kids" do read 1984. We were required to read it in the 9th grade, unfortunately not everyone got the point or understood the message. What is worse is that some didn't even care.
Yep.. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that attitude as a student in US high school.
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I may have attributed the quote "Communism is Socialism only with electricity" to the wrong individual. Maybe it was Lenin.
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I may have attributed the quote "Communism is Socialism only with electricity" to the wrong individual. Maybe it was Lenin.
Seems that quote is backwards to me.
$0.02,
Wab
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Seems like it's completely inaccurate. As was most early Soviet propaganda. What Lenin/Trotsky/Stalin established was really a form of Socialist Collectivism. Not entirely unlike Israel. They latched onto the communist association only to appeal to their particular target constituency.
Just my $.02
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As others have said, your next stop is "1984". Read the whole thing though, not just the cliff notes.
To answer your question, yes, there are plenty of politicians that lean toward a socialist slant both in Europe and in the U.S. Europe is further along the path of socialism than the U.S. and can be used for examples of what socialism does- both good and bad.
If you believe Marx, the United States is actually a hell of a lot closer to communism than Europe.
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I don't think Fahrenheit 451 is read enough is schools.
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Once had an assignment in College. Univ of Maryland.
Needed to write a paper concerning a song and what it reflects in the World today.
Others were doing stuff like "Born Free" "Born in the USA" dumb stuff.
I picked "Eleanor Rigby" by the Beatles.
I turned it in and the Professor shot me a look that has "As If this will fly" glare.
_____________________________ _____________________________ __________
Ah, look at all the lonely people (dispaired)
Ah, look at all the lonely people (forgotten)
Eleanor rigby picks up the rice in the church where a wedding has been (past memories)
Lives in a dream (Struggling for belief that some how something will become better)
Waits at the window, wearing the face that she keeps in a jar by the door (Smiles as she begs)
Who is it for? (Please look upon me, the downtrodden)
All the lonely people (Homeless)
Where do they all come from ? (Failed Society)
All the lonely people (Countless numbers)
Where do they all belong ? (We are not Castaways)
Father mckenzie writing the words of a sermon that no one will hear (The homeless are now faceless, Eleanor becomes a no one)
No one comes near. (Eleanor has now lost her name)
Look at him working. darning his socks in the night when there's nobody there
What does he care? (The Church acknowleges this and turns a blind eye)
All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?
Eleanor rigby died in the church and was buried along with her name (a nobody nameless person)
Nobody came (she was there)
Father mckenzie wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave (washed his hands from any responsibility)
No one was saved (Eleanor was saved)
All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________
Now with each above comment I wrote a good paragraph or two..those just gave you an insight of where I was going with the song.
A week later the Professor handed out the papers...told me to wait... I'm thinkin ohhh crap I screwed this up badly. I stayed and he handed me my paper back.
He amazed me when he said he was a huge fan of the Beatles and John Lennon. Said he never looked at this song that way.
I hope the next time you hear this song...listen to the meaning.
The homeless have names and faces...they all once had lives as you and I have.
Just sharing,
Mac
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I don't think Fahrenheit 451 is read enough is schools.
Had to read that in a Literature class in high school. Really liked that book
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Seems that quote is backwards to me.
$0.02,
Wab
Nope, that's how he put it or at least what I read. If I can find the link I will copy or link.
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"Kids" do read 1984. We were required to read it in the 9th grade, unfortunately not everyone got the point or understood the message. What is worse is that some didn't even care.
That was my point...sadly.
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Marx said, "Communism is socialism with electricity".
If it was Marx it was probably Groucho. I have heard it attributed to Lenin before.
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The forward to Animal Farm is now by author Christopher Hitchens.
He also wrote "Why Orwell Matters" and bio's on Thomas Paine & Jefferson.
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I don't think Fahrenheit 451 is read enough is schools.
Had to read that one too, 8th grade.