Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Boxboy on August 31, 2008, 01:41:38 PM
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How about a real strat situation where each side has a finite amount of equipment per camp, and as each type is lost its availability goes down i.e. so many spits of each type, la7, f4u, etc etc when they are gone that country is out of them until a reset occurs?
You could also dispurse them proportionally at the fields so that planes might have to be "ferried" to bases for use as the base "ran out of its allotment"
Not sure but it seems like coding this would be a simple counter for each type of equipment in the game, the number per camp could be based on the total number produced during the war.
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Maybe for the AvA, not for the MAs, though.
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Well, HTC would never fix it to where you can "shut down" say Spixteens for a country by bombing. Too much objection. However, I think there might be an alternative. Couple strategic bombing of say "aircraft production facilities" in each country's hinterlands to a sort of sliding ENY/Perk system.
Say one country does extensive bombing of another's a/c production facilities. The La7/Spit16/N1K would not become totally unavailable. Their ENY numbers would just raise, the higher ENY planes might pick up a light perk price, for as long as it takes the production facilities gradually regenerate. (I also think it might be a good idea to introduce a similar principle to ENY in general...you would never be ENYed out of a given plane, you might just have to pay perks to fly it.)
Of course, IMO, this would require that the ENY numbers be revamped to be more logical than they are currently.
You could do similar things for fuel and ammo. Destroy enough of the enemies production facilities for these, and maybe he has to pay 3 perks or so for full fuel and ammo loads.
This plan would hopefully accomplish two things. First, it make high altitude penetration raids by heavies w/escorts useful enough to be done more often than once in a blue moon. Second, it would create a real use for all these fighter perk points most long-timers have lying around piled up to the ceilings.
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BnZ, great idea. The thing is, factory defense would have to be greatly done over. Right now, I see a lot of times where there's an enemy factory in the middle of friendly fields, because we haden't taken the zone base yet. Usually that factory would be dead already. If this plan were to be put in, we'd have to have 5" up the wazoo shelling you as you came in.
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Well, HTC would never fix it to where you can "shut down" say Spixteens for a country by bombing. Too much objection. However, I think there might be an alternative. Couple strategic bombing of say "aircraft production facilities" in each country's hinterlands to a sort of sliding ENY/Perk system.
Say one country does extensive bombing of another's a/c production facilities. The La7/Spit16/N1K would not become totally unavailable. Their ENY numbers would just raise, the higher ENY planes might pick up a light perk price, for as long as it takes the production facilities gradually regenerate. (I also think it might be a good idea to introduce a similar principle to ENY in general...you would never be ENYed out of a given plane, you might just have to pay perks to fly it.)
Of course, IMO, this would require that the ENY numbers be revamped to be more logical than it is currently.
You could do similar things for fuel and ammo. Destroy enough of the enemies production facilities for these, and maybe he has to pay 3 perks or so for full fuel and ammo loads.
This plane would hopefully accomplish two things. First, it make high altitude penetration raids by heavies w/escorts useful enough to be done more than once in a blue moon. Second, it would create a real use for all these fighter perk points most long-timers have lying around piled up to the ceilings.
Well my idea has nothing to do with bombing, it has to do with attrition and the MA is exactly the place for it.
Bombing would still close bases etc etc, but this would limit the "uber" planes as they were lost forcing folks to fly "other" rides (sorta like a longer lasting eny), it would also help to put an end to bomb and bail tactics as the peer pressure for "losing planes" would begin to set in.
I have learned to never say never when it comes to the double D's (dale and doug) :devil
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....The La7/Spit16/N1K would not become totally unavailable. ...
Just love how biased this board is and almost never mentions the #1 used plane in these whines because it is America's darling P-51D.
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Karnak -
Unless somethings changed drastically, the P-51 isn't the most used. It may be the trend is heading that way though.
Two months doesn't exactly make a trend though, especially seeing as the Niki's right there with it.
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Karnak -
Unless somethings changed drastically, the P-51 isn't the most used. It may be the trend is heading that way though.
Of course it's imposisble to say exactly what planes is leading in total number of sorties or flight time, but when looking at the cruch of "kills+deaths" the P-51D is indeed most "used"
2007 the P-51D had 829K kills & deaths, Spit XVI 742K, N1K2 728K, La7 726K.
2008 it's so far: P-51D 490K, Spit XVi 467K, N1K2 398K, La-7 322K - out of 7 completed tours so far, P-51D was #1 in that category 5 times.
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Just love how biased this board is and almost never mentions the #1 used plane in these whines because it is America's darling P-51D.
1. My post was not a whine. It was theory about how to make some sort of viable and acceptable strategic targets.
2. The P-51 is not an ENY 5 plane like the three I mentioned, it is an ENY 8 plane, which is why they merited mentioning in the context I was speaking and the Pony did not. This is a perfectly fair ENY, because as currently modeled, the P-51 is a more mediocre plane than these other 3. (The other ENY 5 planes I can think of off the top of my head, the P47N and Ta-152, should not be ENY 5, they should probably also be around 8 ). The high use of the P-51 is based on reputation and popularity, not uber-effectiveness.
3. I'm sorry if some stupid thing W the Decider said annoyed you, or for whatever has you on the rag against Americana today. As I say, the P-51 is not an ENY 5 plane and is not particularly uber as currently modeled, so naturally people don't "whine" about it. There would have to be unperked F4U-4s and F4U-Cs flying around before anyone would have a justifiable whine about an American plane to match whines about Spixteens/Lalas/N1Ks.
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I believe Karnak is American, so you can drop the martyrdom card.
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I am the one who got crap first, being accused of "whining" and "bias". What am I to make of the phrase "because it is America's darling P-51D"?
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Just love how biased this board is and almost never mentions the #1 used plane in these whines because it is America's darling P-51D.
Not sure if you think the thread is a whine or just that one post? but hey with 10k posts you value your opinion over most in here anyway :rofl
Actually was just thinking of adding some reason to try and fly home, instead of the mindless HO's, bomb and bail, etc etc that goes on in the main
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So the country that is outnumbered already and most likely being horded from both sides now has to defend more spots. If I understand it correctly: The country that has numbers and an ENY that is creaping up or is already up has to up a huge bomber mission to kill the "plane making place". This action would then bring the ENY back down so they can horde more bases with all cannon rides......No thanks
The ENY system that is used now is fine....not perfect but it does it job!
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if it was for mas id be tempted to up spit16'a and la7's until they depleted for all sides :devil....im strongly against it
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Yeah I am sure the scoho's would be against losing their uber rides, but if they didn't get shot down they wouldn't lose em :rofl
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I'm all for a strat that affects production of low ENY rides.
:aok
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^ or indeed that has *any* apparent effect.
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So the country that is outnumbered already and most likely being horded from both sides now has to defend more spots. If I understand it correctly: The country that has numbers and an ENY that is creaping up or is already up has to up a huge bomber mission to kill the "plane making place". This action would then bring the ENY back down so they can horde more bases with all cannon rides......No thanks
The ENY system that is used now is fine....not perfect but it does it job!
Um, no Sir, attacking the other country's plane production facilities would not bring your country's ENY down...it would just bring theirs UP. And like I say, in my system, their would be no such thing as being ENYed out of a certain plane type, you just might have to pay perks to fly it.
Also, there would not be "the" plane making place, it would be plane making places...acres and acres of factory. Well behind the lines, so you would have to cross multiple Enemy bases and radars to get there. Within range of 163 bases.So heavily defended by ack and flak that NOE or lanck-stuka missions would be dead before they dropped their eggs-you'd have to go hi-alt. And so much of it that no SINGLE mission conceivable could do much damage to a country's plane availability.
Practically every tool in the box in AHII, one could object that it could be used by a horde to beat down lesser numbers. But good lord, there is only so much you can do to even out the natural fact that big armies tend to beat small armies before you start getting ridiculous. 9 P-47D-25s can take down base, and if you've only got 2 defenders, it doesn't really matter what they are flying. 5 P-40s will generally kill a lone bandit, even if it is a Spit16.
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Um, no Sir, attacking the other country's plane production facilities would not bring your country's ENY down...it would just bring theirs UP. And like I say, in my system, their would be no such thing as being ENYed out of a certain plane type, you just might have to pay perks to fly it.
Maybe I am stupid but that makes no sence. If the higher number country kills the plane making places of the small numbered country and makes the eny move at all it won't matter who's eny changes. If lets say knights eny=0, rook eny= 12, and bish eny= 15. Rooks or bish attack knight plane making places and causes knight eny to goto 5...how is that different than moving rook eny to 7 and bish eny to 10? Then that would remove the option of cheaper perk planes ment to stop such attack on strats...so then bish and rook attack more of the "plane making places" to cause eny/perk cost to knights to be further out of balance. What your left with is an outnumbered country with more problems than being outnumbered. Outnumbered countries can't defend bases and strats. These plane making places wouldn't be hard to find with side jumpers and or spies(and I don't care if there are spys or side jumpers) and most likey be close to uncapturable bases. If you need more strats to bomb for your score I can understand that but don't need to punish the outnumbered country further in the process.
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If the higher number country kills the plane making places of the small numbered country and makes the eny move at all it won't matter who's eny changes. If lets say knights eny=0, rook eny= 12, and bish eny= 15. Rooks or bish attack knight plane making places and causes knight eny to goto 5...how is that different than moving rook eny to 7 and bish eny to 10?
The difference would be that you conceivably pressure your opposition into lower ENY rides through attack. But this wouldn't do a darn thing about your own country's ENY problems. So you might conceivably force a P-40 vrs. P-40 fest with enough attack, but not an La-7 vrs. P-40 fest.
And keep in mind, I would also change the ENY system to where you were never FORCED out of any plane...you just might have to pay to fly it. This would eliminate some of the louder complaints about the ENY system, as well as give those of us who currently have little desire to fly the current perk planes much something to do with our perks.
Then that would remove the option of cheaper perk planes ment to stop such attack on strats...
Well, if the attack on strats was intercepted and destroyed, then it would have no effect on the price of perk planes. And like I say, each country on the map would need to have a "hinterland" behind some uncapturables where these strats would be located. There would be no such thing as "sneak" destroying the strats. And keep in mind, again, you would NEVER be completely forced out of any plane by ENY under this sytsem.
What your left with is an outnumbered country with more problems than being outnumbered. Outnumbered countries can't defend bases and strats.
Perhaps you don't understand just how difficult I would make it to have a meaningful effect with strategic bombing. It wouldn't be like dropping all the hangars at a base, something you could do with a flight or two of lancs. They would be multiple, they would be fiercely defended by automatic flaks alone, they would be deep in the back country where there was no hope of "sneak" attacking them. I would give each country air-starts of perhaps 10K or even 15K from their back-country uncapturables over the strats to aid interception. A given country would likely never have enough numerical advantage to attack strats AND gang a lot of bases simultaneously.
If you need more strats to bomb for your score I can understand that but don't need to punish the outnumbered country further in the process.
Look, at some point being outnumbered is always going to worsen your chances of "winning the war". If you are so worried about it, we could just make it to where when a country becomes sufficiently out-numbered, they automatically win the war. If we want to carry things to their logical extreme. But I don't know about you, I don't give a damn about winning or losing the war, and I certainly don't give a damn about padding my bomber score. (I wouldn't have a bomber score at all if it weren't for upping A-20s to bomb g/vs and after the FH is taken down, so there.) I give a damn about increasing the number of experiences, "ways to play" during our "wars." Most especially, I want to bring in an element from the real war that is currently almost missing from MA play, high altitude bombing, escort, and interception. Worthwhile strategic targets are the only way I see to do that.
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Maybe I am stupid but that makes no sence. If the higher number country kills the plane making places of the small numbered country and makes the eny move at all it won't matter who's eny changes. If lets say knights eny=0, rook eny= 12, and bish eny= 15. Rooks or bish attack knight plane making places and causes knight eny to goto 5...how is that different than moving rook eny to 7 and bish eny to 10? Then that would remove the option of cheaper perk planes ment to stop such attack on strats...so then bish and rook attack more of the "plane making places" to cause eny/perk cost to knights to be further out of balance. What your left with is an outnumbered country with more problems than being outnumbered. Outnumbered countries can't defend bases and strats. These plane making places wouldn't be hard to find with side jumpers and or spies(and I don't care if there are spys or side jumpers) and most likey be close to uncapturable bases. If you need more strats to bomb for your score I can understand that but don't need to punish the outnumbered country further in the process.
This is cuz, if one side was outnumbered, the original idea for eny comes into effect, killin the nit one :eny of zero to start say, goes to 2, but if it against the rooks :eny of 16 cuz outnumbers the nits badly, goes up 6 or 7, so in the end, u have the larger country defending these bases more and having less on the front line...Losing a facility makes the penalty in a larger country more severe...etc. 100 players on nits, 150 rooks, 120 bish, rook gets the most problems out of a raid against a facility...nits, the least...eny may not even rise for the nits right away, but losing the thing multiple times starts hurting them.
This may even help stop the teamming up against one country...people may not want to leave the other country to stab them in the back before they can...
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I'm STILL of the opinion that HTC should 'coad' downtimes of things like buildings, strat, hangers etc to numbers.
I.E. the more players you have, the longer it takes for "stuff" to rebuild.
The fewer the players, the shorter the time.
Lets say 50 knits 100 rooks 150 bish.
Hanger rebuild time: Knit=10min Rook=15min Bish=20min (just examples)
What this does...
The sides with the highest numbers would have to work harder to achieve the same results. Whereas the lowered numbered side would have an easier time of it. MUCH easier defending a field against a huuuge hoard when town buildings, acks and vh's are poping in 10min.
Do away with ENY restrictions completely.
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I'm STILL of the opinion that HTC should 'coad' downtimes of things like buildings, strat, hangers etc to numbers.
I.E. the more players you have, the longer it takes for "stuff" to rebuild.
The fewer the players, the shorter the time.
Lets say 50 knits 100 rooks 150 bish.
Hanger rebuild time: Knit=10min Rook=15min Bish=20min (just examples)
What this does...
The sides with the highest numbers would have to work harder to achieve the same results. Whereas the lowered numbered side would have an easier time of it. MUCH easier defending a field against a huuuge hoard when town buildings, acks and vh's are poping in 10min.
Do away with ENY restrictions completely.
This would allow more teamwork over the usual furballing that happens in the latewar Main Arenas also. But eny still needed cuz the team with too many on will still use the uber planes and it wont get u anywhere :rofl
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Whatever it is, we need something to bring the strategic factor of the game back. Useful strat promotes meaningful fights. It gives the buffs a useful target and it gives the furballers a reason to defend both the buffs and the strats.
Right now we have two apparently separate camps, the buffers and the furballers, the two rarely interact and seem to harbour a distinct lack of respect for each other. The resurgence of meaningful strategic targets should promote interaction between the two groups.