Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on September 05, 2008, 12:29:30 PM
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This is probably the start of a new gun thread?
BUT it's not really about guns it's about a politicians stance on OUR rights....
http://gunbanobama.com/
And I don't see the gun thread anymore?
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I already knew that.
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Should have just posted this to the gun thread wrag, its going to get dumped there anyway.
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Should have just posted this to the gun thread wrag, its going to get dumped there anyway.
Where is the gun thread?
Use to be a sticky but now it's?????
Well if it gets dumped there the it gets dumped there.
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Fighting Crime With Technology
ALBANY---As large cities across New York try to curb gun violence, legislators are trying to lend a hand. They want to force gun manufacturers to implement technology which would allow law enforcement to trace bullet casings.
This bill to trace shell casings was introduced by a democratic assemblywoman and there is also support in the Republican-controlled Senate.
If the bill moves through both the Assembly and Senate, all new semiautomatic pistols made or delivered to licensed dealers in New York would have to be microstamped, a way of tracing what bullets come from what guns.
"The only person who would not want micro stamping is someone who fires a gun and doesn't want to get caught," Assemblywoman Michelle Schimel said.
Here's how microstamping works. When a gun is fired, the make, model and serial number of the gun is stamped onto the shell casing in the form of letters and numbers.
The hope is that investigators can trace the original gun purchaser and start a tracking process.
"If we get three shells at the scene, we have a 90% chance of getting a match on that shell and where that gun came from," Senator Martin Golden said.
Senator Martin Golden, a former New York City police officer, says the support is there from the majority conference. He notes microstamping isn't the magic bullet in crime fighting, but it could be an effective tool in tracking down those who are shooting up the streets.
"Will it solve the murder, will it solve the shooting? It may not, but it gives us the extra tool to track that gun down," Golden said.
If the bill becomes law, microstamping technology on new semiautomatic pistols would be mandatory by 2010.
"So if you're using it in a proper manner, you won't even notice it the micro stamping technology, and I'm telling the hundreds of sportsmen, the peace officers, this is strictly for crime prevention," said Schimel said.
---Why is this a problem to NRA?
confused
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this probably won't work but we want to do it anyway, because our job is to pass laws even if they don't do anything. That's how we get re-elected. We are law makers.
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The micro stamping will not work.
Too EZ to change the stamp or even erase it.
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The micro stamping will not work.
Too EZ to change the stamp or even erase it.
So what is it? - is it a raised impression on the firing pin?
Personally - I don't think the average yo - yo who has managed to get a stolen gun - would even care about changing it... but I guess changing it would seem easy
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The micro stamping will not work.
Too EZ to change the stamp or even erase it.
Yeah-won't even be a minor hurdle to a serious killer. Besides...There's already so many pieces out there that won't have that micro-stamping thingamajig on it, that by the time new guns with that tech in them hit the shelves, It won't really have any effect anyway.
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I dont need to read the link. Obama is from my state.
If your a person who believes you have a right to all your rights under the Constitution then you should get your head checked before you vote for Obama.
And dont forget people in Illinois are pretty stupid. Not all but most couldnt even be considered fairly bright primates, and the more education they have the dumber they generally are. So when they hear a guy like Obama, and other Pols in IL. always one step ahead of indictment, tell them that their social problems are due to the availability of guns. They are generally so dumb they believe it
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Obama also has a 10 point plan on guns, not one point is good.
1. Ban use of firearms for home defense.
2. Pass Federal laws eliminating your Right -to Carry.
3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.
4. Close down 90% of the gun shops in America.
5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.
6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500%
7. RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FIVE MILLION CRIMINALS INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.
8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms.
9. Mandate a government issued license to purchase a firearm.
10. Appoint judges to the U. S. Supreme Court and Federal judiciary who share his views on the Second Amendment.
:huh
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Anyone know how to get a hold of Obama...I just want to take him snipe huntin...ONE TIME... :mad:
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Anyone know how to get a hold of Obama...I just want to take him snipe huntin...ONE TIME... :mad:
Just take him camping one time in Alaska. Put him in charge of cooking the bacon the first morning while you go looking for some fresh camp meat......
Not that I would ever do something so dastardly.....
:devil
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Obama also has a 10 point plan on guns, not one point is good.
:huh
Source? Not some web page that claims it, I want the words from his mouth.
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---Why is this a problem to NRA?
confused
Firing pins are easily replacable.
Microstamping could be easily filed off.
Shoot 1000 rounds and the microstamping could be worn off.
Revolvers do not eject casings.
Result? increased cost to the law abiding citizen, no change in law enforcement.
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Source? Not some web page that claims it, I want the words from his mouth.
If you google for *Obama's 10 point gun plan* the first hit is his official site. I'm guessing that's where it originated from. In order to get into Obama's site you have to fork over an email address and I am not going to give him mine.
Generally speaking, the NRA is usually pretty accurate in their assessments of political candidates stances on gun control issues. They give Obama an F and McCain a D iirc for gun control stances. How they get all of their information I have no idea.
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=308&issue=047
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Source? Not some web page that claims it, I want the words from his mouth.
Usually the source is contained in the pages?
And you can always look at bama sites.
The word is out there.
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Obama also has a 10 point plan on guns, not one point is good.
:huh
Ummm.. smells bad Elfie. Not even Obama's stupid enuff to spell something like that out on a platform. Any kind of source available for that list?
Thanks!
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Searched all of Obama's website, no mention of guns.
So all I have to go on is skewed repub sites on his stances, until Mr. Obama tells me otherwise.
Doesn't look good for Mr. Obama.
And I don't want any generic BS either, I want the DETAILS.
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Ummm.. smells bad Elfie. Not even Obama's stupid enuff to spell something like that out on a platform. Any kind of source available for that list?
Thanks!
http://www.nraila.org/obama/
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Ummm.. smells bad Elfie. Not even Obama's stupid enuff to spell something like that out on a platform. Any kind of source available for that list?
Thanks!
I already posted one, from the NRA heh.
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Searched all of Obama's website, no mention of guns.
So all I have to go on is skewed repub sites on his stances, until Mr. Obama tells me otherwise.
Doesn't look good for Mr. Obama.
And I don't want any generic BS either, I want the DETAILS.
You have got to be kidding.
Searched all of Obama's website, no mention of guns.
What a shocker. :rofl
This election is not about electing a chairman of the local spit and whittle club. It is about electing a POTUS.
People really need to take the time to investigate the issues and how each one actually stands on them, and have stood on them in the past , instead of taking a bunch of whitewashed BS as fact.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmM2NjY3ZWEyNjE4MTMwMDlmNTA5NzE2M2Y2NDQ4ZTM= (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmM2NjY3ZWEyNjE4MTMwMDlmNTA5NzE2M2Y2NDQ4ZTM=)
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Firing pins are easily replacable.
Microstamping could be easily filed off.
Shoot 1000 rounds and the microstamping could be worn off.
Revolvers do not eject casings.
Result? increased cost to the law abiding citizen, no change in law enforcement.
Revolvers are the choice weapon of criminals because they do not eject casings - also, who's to say a semi intelligent criminal wouldn't go to a gun range and pick up some old casings from someone else, and "salt" the crime scene to confuse investigators ?
Microstamping does not work - in fact, it would be a step backwards, making investigations harder to solve.
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If you google for *Obama's 10 point gun plan* the first hit is his official site. I'm guessing that's where it originated from. In order to get into Obama's site you have to fork over an email address and I am not going to give him mine.
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=308&issue=047
that's easy.........go to yahoo, and make up a new freebie email there. use it to get in, see what a want, then just let it rot......or delete it :devil
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Just take him camping one time in Alaska. Put him in charge of cooking the bacon the first morning while you go looking for some fresh camp meat......
Not that I would ever do something so dastardly.....
:devil
Sign me up.
I`ll guide the hunt.................for free.
:devil
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---Why is this a problem to NRA?
confused
How about if a semi smart crook goes to a range where dozens of people have been shooting all day and leaving micro stamped cases lying around, and said crook pics up a bunch of them, then he goes and shoots up a store while he's robbing the place and then tosses all those shell casings on the ground.
If you were at that range and that crook picked up a shell casing from your gun and left it at the crime scene, YOU have just become a suspect in a police investigation.
You didn't do anything wrong so you have NOTHING to worry about right?
Are you going to continue to believe that when the police come to your place of work and drag you out, put you in a police cruiser, and take you to the station for questioning?
How about when they show up on your doorstep with a search warrant and tear your house apart looking for evidence?
Here's anouther thought to consider. How many crooks do you think go out and buy fresh quality brand new ammo for their guns? They're crooks and most will buy the cheapest ammo they can get their hands on, and those are reloads. A shell casing you fired from your micro stamped gun a year ago, might have been fired from other guns several times before crook gets his hands on it and fires it while commiting a crime, but what's going to happen if the micro stamp from your gun is the only one that can be read clearly? Again, your the target of the investigation now.
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You have got to be kidding.
What a shocker. :rofl
This election is not about electing a chairman of the local spit and whittle club. It is about electing a POTUS.
People really need to take the time to investigate the issues and how each one actually stands on them, and have stood on them in the past , instead of taking a bunch of whitewashed BS as fact.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmM2NjY3ZWEyNjE4MTMwMDlmNTA5NzE2M2Y2NDQ4ZTM= (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmM2NjY3ZWEyNjE4MTMwMDlmNTA5NzE2M2Y2NDQ4ZTM=)
I have already read that, but what I was wondering is if Obama would actually put his views up on his official site. Guess not. Thanks for the link though.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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The stupidity of the microstamp is erased in 30 seconds with a dremel tool. Firing pin or bolt face, it'll easily polish out. The two professional scientific studies of the technique both came to the same conclusion. Check Wiki for references.
University of California - Davis study: "Beddow found that the codes on face of the pin could easily be removed with household tools."
Suffolk County Crime Laboratory in New York: "The last test involved an intentional defacement of the markings on the pin. The pin was removed (a simple operation taking a few seconds on the M1911), chucked in a power drill, spun, and held against a knife sharpening stone for about 10 seconds. Examination of the pin showed some marking remaining at the very center of the firing pin, so the pin was wiped against the stone three times by hand, which removed all traces of the engraving. The tip was of the pin was then rounded to remove any sharp edges, placed back in the pistol, and fired with 10 rounds. No malfunctions were observed".
Big 'feel good' waste of money, the typical anti solution. Just like the :rofl assault weapons ban.
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I have already read that, but what I was wondering is if Obama would actually put his views up on his official site. Guess not. Thanks for the link though.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
The Obamessiah is obviously not going to put his anti-gun positions on his site. However, your common sense tells you that with a documented gun issue voting record like his, he is totally, completely anti-gun. You can come to no other conclusion unless you lie to yourself.
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I have already read that, but what I was wondering is if Obama would actually put his views up on his official site. Guess not. Thanks for the link though.
I guess I could use Caps idea for getting into Obama's site, but I'll take your word that you searched it.
I've been a life member of the NRA for more years than I care to recall. Finding out a candidates stance on gun issues is what they do and they are good at it. Generally speaking they are pretty accurate on the various politicians gun stances.
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The Obamessiah is obviously not going to put his anti-gun positions on his site. However, your common sense tells you that with a documented gun issue voting record like his, he is totally, completely anti-gun. You can come to no other conclusion unless you lie to yourself.
I know he is anti-gun, I was just curious to see if he would, himself, say to what extent.
PS: After giving them my email address I have received 3 support emails :lol The same thing happened to my dad when he gave McCain his email, except they only got it because he emailed THEM to complain.
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Biden id possibly even worse?
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=4160
You want info that supports the NRA's claims?
Just look at their voting records!
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Now that I have a feel of his views, I'm curious...Is it even plausible he can take away that right? There have been many anti gun, just how there have been anti abortion, candidates...When they won, what did they get done? What happened to checks and balances?
Isn't that what all the branches are for? To prevent one man from changing some this significant?
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if obama gets president, world will end, that freak has no right to take the guns out of homes, there for sport and protection
-BigBOBCH
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It would be downright be an Obama-nation. He's just Biden his time.
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Fighting Crime With Technology
ALBANY---As large cities across New York try to curb gun violence, legislators are trying to lend a hand. They want to force gun manufacturers to implement technology which would allow law enforcement to trace bullet casings.
This bill to trace shell casings was introduced by a democratic assemblywoman and there is also support in the Republican-controlled Senate.
Republican controlled senate? That's news to me.
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Now that I have a feel of his views, I'm curious...Is it even plausible he can take away that right? There have been many anti gun, just how there have been anti abortion, candidates...When they won, what did they get done? What happened to checks and balances?
Isn't that what all the branches are for? To prevent one man from changing some this significant?
Many have said for many years that guns wouldn't be banned.
Then in Kalifornia and when the Klintons got in office MANY types of guns got banned!
There is a possibility that he could affect a ban.
In the 50's it's highly probable there would have been gun battles with the WWII vets. So very few politicians even thought about bans. And MANY of the law enforcement people then wouldn't even think of supporting anti-gun laws.
Now it seems the politicians figure few if any will stand up for their rights. And law enforcement has gotten so they seem to support nearly any law the politicians create.
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Now that I have a feel of his views, I'm curious...Is it even plausible he can take away that right? There have been many anti gun, just how there have been anti abortion, candidates...When they won, what did they get done? What happened to checks and balances?
Isn't that what all the branches are for? To prevent one man from changing some this significant?
Not by himself he can't but with a Democrat controlled Congress it will make things much easier. Look back at the Clinton years and the anti gun legislation that was passed, then look at the Bush years and see how much anti gun legislation was passed.
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IF Obama wins, there's at least a 65% chance he could get two terms, depending on how stupid people are, and what kind of candidate the Republicans offer. Let's also add here that IF Obama wins, much of the Republican party will be stupid enough to blame Sarah Palin and the more conservative part of the base. That stupidity would almost surely bring a second defeat.
IF Obama wins, it is likely that the turnover in Congress will continue, and the Democrats will gain seats. There will be at the very least constant attempts to legislate new and far reaching firearms restrictions on a very regular basis.
IF Obama wins, and especially if he gets his second term, it is likely he will nominate 2-3 Supreme Court Justices. There is no doubt as to how liberal they will be, how likely they will be to legislate from the bench, and how far they will go to subscribe to the theory that the Constitution is a "living document".
IF Obama wins, you can expect an EXTREMELY liberal and anti-gun Attorney General. Along with this AG, you'll have the same thing throughout the justice department AND in the BATFE. At that point, you don't even NEED new laws, all you need is a little judicial re-interpretation of the current laws, along with rabidly overzealous enforcement policies based on those "new re-interpretations." Ask some of the long term Federal Firearm License holders what life was like under the Klintons and Janet Reno.
It could take 2-4 DECADES to undo the damage, IF it could EVER be undone, outside of a major revolution of some sort.
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^
Yep, that's it right there.
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A new Congress will be elected this year, here's to hoping it isn't Dems then.
Or people could, after the first term, get fed up and elect a Republican Congress.
You also have to keep in mind that they are voting people in not on this one issue, to others the right for a woman to choose is more important to them than the right to bear arms.
I'm not saying it is or isn't, I'm just trying to see why some people would vote for someone they otherwise wouldn't.
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When a politician comes up with a plan like the 'microstamp' its not really to trace guns but to raise the price so high no one will be able to afford them and the industries are forced out of the country. If you doubt that look at most of our industries now and where they are because of taxes. These laws dont do anything but cripple America and only someone that cares more about himself then his own country could ever conceive of such an idea (which explains just about everything to do with the left). I have said it before and it needs repeating again. Government should protect the people from foreign aggressors and otherwise stay the h-e-double-toothpick out of our lives!
We need a President that if elected would accept no payment/compensation and that would trim the fat out of Government by 98%.
We need a Congress that represents the People and no special interest groups and that gives absolutely NO money at all to anyone outside of the U.S.A.
We need Senators that grew up in the actual State electing them and that is aware of the issues for that particular State and not someone with an agenda or dream of being more then that so they actually attend to business.
We need term limitations on both the House and the Senate.
What tragedy must befall us all before we come to realize this and make it happen?
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When a politician comes up with a plan like the 'microstamp' its not really to trace guns but to raise the price so high no one will be able to afford them and the industries are forced out of the country.
Forcing the gun manufacturing business either out of the country or out of business is just plain stupid. If either happens, where the heck is our military going to buy firearms from? We need that manufacturing base.
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to others the right for a woman to choose is more important to them than the right to bear arms.
The right to keep and bear arms is the one that protects all the others. Those that think other rights are more important than the 2nd Amendment probably aren't thinking clearly.
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Anyone know how to get a hold of Obama...I just want to take him snipe huntin...ONE TIME... :mad:
I really want you to seek help, seriously.
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The right to keep and bear arms is the one that protects all the others. Those that think other rights are more important than the 2nd Amendment probably aren't thinking clearly.
The problem with that is that people who have no desire to protect the unborn have no desire to see anyone else be protected either.
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Forcing the gun manufacturing business either out of the country or out of business is just plain stupid. If either happens, where the heck is our military going to buy firearms from? We need that manufacturing base.
There is no requirement in politics for intelligence or we wouldnt have half our current representatives and senators (maybe more).
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When it comes to government, common sense is an uncommon attribute.
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Forcing the gun manufacturing business either out of the country or out of business is just plain stupid. If either happens, where the heck is our military going to buy firearms from? We need that manufacturing base.
In the new world order the manufacturing base will be elsewhere for a time.
Maybe Europe, China or Mexico...............
It will return here WHEN the population is more tractable.
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Forcing the gun manufacturing business either out of the country or out of business is just plain stupid. If either happens, where the heck is our military going to buy firearms from? We need that manufacturing base.
china?
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china?
OH yes!!!
Ever heard of Norinco? They were selling MANY different firearms to the American public for some time now.
The Chinese Communist embraced semi-capitalism not too long back.
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Yes, and some came in that were illegal. Think they were Norinco. The -three rivet in the receiver- models are the illegal ones. Those are the ones that are convert able to full auto mode. If you own one of these it is illegal to possess.
Makes you wonder who those weapons were intended for with gun laws being broken bringing them in.
Les