Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vega on January 08, 2001, 12:18:00 AM

Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: vega on January 08, 2001, 12:18:00 AM
The ground disabling of the B-17 guns, an old holdover from early WarBirds, should be removed in AH....there is no apparent reason to keep these guns disabled with the type of gunnery now available from fields and ships, etc.  
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: TheWobble on January 08, 2001, 12:48:00 AM
You say that till some amazinhunk in the TA spawns in a hanger with a 17 and starts hosing everyone..
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Staga on January 08, 2001, 01:28:00 AM
More AckStars? No thank you.
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: LJK Raubvogel on January 08, 2001, 01:42:00 AM
You would see base defense consist of B-17s parked in hangars shooting troops, not a good idea.
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: loser111 on January 09, 2001, 01:37:00 PM
1 in real life couldnt these be done? Yes straffing ground units would be dumb but not as dumb as getting ripped to shreds just before you lift off.(though im sure it prolly never was)

2  While i dont think making guns instantly available as soon as you are on the runway is a good idea... why not once you start rolling, im sure this is hard to do and never will be done, havent had much luck with getting changes made to anything buff related.

3 heres and idea if you dont want b17 ackstars in the hangers waiting for troops... KILL THE BOMBER HANGER!!!! before troops arrive.  you wouldnt leave the vh up would you?
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Tac on January 09, 2001, 01:46:00 PM
There is no problem whatsoever with the buffs not being able to fire turrets when in the ground. It is there to prevent ackstars.

In either case, if you want to use it to prevent a field capture you take the b26 whose foward firing guns DO fire at ground level and DO kill the goon and the troops.

What we dont want to see are people abusing the turbolasers in the b17's. I'd be more scared of a parked b17 spewing 90mm cannon at me than an Ostwind.

And oh yes, im sure it is very realistic for bomber crews to run to man their guns when their field is under attack. I thought they would be foxhole, but then again, I forget that in RL people have some brains and survival instincts.
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: popeye on January 09, 2001, 02:07:00 PM
Keep 'em disabled on the ground.
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Jigster on January 09, 2001, 02:22:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Tac:
There is no problem whatsoever with the buffs not being able to fire turrets when in the ground. It is there to prevent ackstars.

In either case, if you want to use it to prevent a field capture you take the b26 whose foward firing guns DO fire at ground level and DO kill the goon and the troops.

What we dont want to see are people abusing the turbolasers in the b17's. I'd be more scared of a parked b17 spewing 90mm cannon at me than an Ostwind.

And oh yes, im sure it is very realistic for bomber crews to run to man their guns when their field is under attack. I thought they would be foxhole, but then again, I forget that in RL people have some brains and survival instincts.

Actually if you look around enough you'll find thats some bomber crews did use their planes as AAA platforms...

The British Roc/Skua was considered to such a piece of junk that they often left them armed, on the field to attract the LW. Then the turrent was put to probably the most reasonable use it ever saw since production, as an AAA platform on the tarmac.

I know of at least four occasions that crew members of my neighbor's B-17 squadron shot at roving Ju88's, after they had either come in late or were coming back from sub patrol. One got credit for knocking one down off the field, although it was most likely the other AAA.

Regardless though...NO ACKSTARS!

Just pointing out that it did happen sometimes, and heros a lucky morons  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Tac on January 09, 2001, 04:06:00 PM
lol aye, I meant that ye didnt see buff gunners running to their buffs every time an airfield was under attack. Thats why you have the bullet-stoppers (aka, ground crew/infantry/AAA gunners) to do that for you *grin*  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Major Tom on January 12, 2001, 08:40:00 PM
How about just enabling the top turret?

Realistically he'd be the only one able to get a decent shot off at the attack fighters until the B-17 lifted off.

Two .50's ain't exactly an AckStar, but it is enough to make vulchers think twice about blowing up a hapless buff on the ground.  Don't want this to happen?  Take out the bomber hanger.

Make the buffs .50's useless against ground troops and C-47's until it lifts off, problem solved.
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Sunchaser on January 13, 2001, 12:34:00 AM
I hate when a B26 in the hanger pointed at the maproom blows me away, disable ALL B26 guns on the ground please.

If I am dumb enought to try getting a B17 off a capped field I deserve what I get.... no top turret either.

------------------
When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Westy on January 13, 2001, 09:07:00 AM
 Disabled!.   There was a reason they were disabled in the first place and that reason would re-surface within the hour of re-enabling them.

 -Westy
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Tac on January 13, 2001, 01:04:00 PM
Yep. Disabled they shall remain. The "Ackstar Problem" has been effectively solved by this.
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: PakRat on January 13, 2001, 01:27:00 PM
Yeah, enable the guns in bombers on the ground!

I know back in WWII, when a field was under attack, every gunner would run to his plane - complete with its load of a few thousand gallons of highly flammable and generally explosive av-gas - to shoot back from what was most likely a succulent target for the invaders. I think it was also called sure death.

Yup. I'm sure it happened all the time. NOT!

Enabling the guns on the ground is bad idea. Rolling or not. People already complain about the flaks. Get a hint.

------------------
Rape, pillage, then burn...

[This message has been edited by PakRat (edited 01-13-2001).]
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: loser111 on January 15, 2001, 07:22:00 PM
like i said, kill the bh
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: gatt on January 17, 2001, 07:43:00 AM
You are kiddin, are you? You have gunners able to fire during high-g maneuvers, a big hit-bubble (against attacking fiters), gunners able to hit from 1,200-1,400yds, Brownings able to remove a wing, ultra maneuverable buffs, ultra climbing buffs at 30K+ ....
and you want buffs parked on the rwy spraying 0.50s all around? Please ...  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Lephturn on January 17, 2001, 07:56:00 AM
Gatt,

What "hit bubble"?  There is no "hit bubble" in AH.  If you hit the plane, you do damage.  If you miss the plane, you miss.  There is no hit bubble.

Oh yeah, and leave 'em disabled on the ground.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: gatt on January 17, 2001, 08:32:00 AM
Hi Lephturn,
if there is not an hit bubble (only for buff-gunners I mean) how can they kill you even when you are maneuvering hard? Sometimes you hear the first ping, then you pull, push and/or turn hard and you *still* get pinged.
Theres a huge difference, IMHO, between gunnery from fiters and buff-gunners. If its not an hit-bubble for sure there is something weird.
<S>
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Ripsnort on January 17, 2001, 09:23:00 AM
Been there,seen that, no thanks. Diabled on ground please.
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: MiG Eater on January 17, 2001, 01:24:00 PM
No Ackstars... keep the turret guns disabled on the ground.

re: Hit Bubbles and pings, Gatt, you may be hearing pings several hundred milliseconds after the other player's front end registered the hits (net lag).

MiG
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Specterx on January 17, 2001, 05:17:00 PM
gatt: That's called lag - the guns are not still hitting you, it just takes a second or two for the hits to register, thus you can still be getting "hit" even while you're turning (or even after the buff blows up).
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: Lephturn on January 18, 2001, 07:51:00 AM
Gatt,

It's a combination of lag as mentioned above, and dispersion.

With the auto-coordination of buff guns, you can have 5 or more .50's shooting at you at once.  Each stream has a dispersion effect, and has a convergence setting as well.  The result is a pretty wide cone of fire that makes it relatively easy to hit.

Combine this with lag and the gunner can nail you in some situations that don't look right.  Often, you start an evasive when he fires, but on his FE you are still flying straight for a second or two and he pounds the crap out of you.  On your FE you get blown to bits right in the middle of your evasive move.

It's the nature of the internet beast.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)  You have to try to plan your evasives earlier than you expect to have them timed right on the gunner's FE.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: iculus on January 21, 2001, 02:57:00 PM
An M-16 or an Ostwind make a much better gunning platform than a B-17... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Title: B-17 gun restriction
Post by: eskimo on January 21, 2001, 10:27:00 PM
For gameplay purposes, I don't like it.

eskimo