Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Kaw1000 on September 11, 2008, 09:17:52 AM
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I was sent this artical today and found it intresting...the only problem is that
there is not enough fueling stations around for supply.
I guess the oil companies are slow rolling the natural gas thing. :frown:
Tax incentive boosted the use of natural-gas cars in 2000
Now owners of the vehicles feel abandoned
Long before $4 gasoline, Arizona’s state legislature passed a tax incentive program to promote the purchase and use of CNG fueled vehicles. It was so popular the state’s expected $10 million price tag ballooned to $483 million. Now owners of the vehicles are having trouble finding refueling stations.
This may be another example of government incentive programs gone awry. In the year 2000, well before this year’s run up in oil and gasoline prices, Arizona was ahead of the curve- promoting the use of CNG vehicles with tax and other incentives. Today, Arizona residents may be scratching their collective heads wondering what the nearly $ ½ Billion program achieved.
Proponents of government sponsored incentive programs to promote the purchase and use of hybrid, plug-in electric and other alternative fuels should study the program in Arizona. From a report found in The Arizona Republic many of those induced to purchase CNG equipped vehicles back in 2000 are not too happy with the way it turned out.
Some, like Marty Midgley, the owner of a 2001 GMC Yukon that runs on CNG feels like he is stuck with a technology that is not supported with a refueling infrastructure. He would love to sell the SUV, but laments, “I don’t know how you could. Who would buy it?”
Owners of some of these seven and eight year-old vehicles also complain that finding someone certified to work on the system is becoming more and more difficult.
SanTan Honda Superstore in Chandler is one place that does continue to work on and sell CNG vehicles. However, their alternative-fuel manager (I’ll bet you don’t have one of them!) said that they are expecting some 2009 CNG cars from Honda, but don’t really know when to expect them in inventory.
According to the many ads being run by T. Boone Pickens to promote wind power and CNG-fueled have a cost efficiency of about 40%- meaning that you can go the same number of miles for close to half the cost of today’s high-priced gasoline. If that is not incentive enough to build the refueling system, what is?
Somewhere in all the schemes being promoted to beat dependency on foreign oil, there must be a solution. But one should expect to hear more stories like this one as we work through the alternatives.
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were i am there is not a station for cng in 150 miles , so i have been trying to find out how to get a grant to build one, without much luck i might add.
i live right on i-40 so it is a very good place to have one,for the travelers, then come the city contracts, sounds like a win/win , too me!
anybody know were i can find o say $300,000? :aok
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a bank?
write up a business plan, go to a bank, get a SBA covered loan.
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sorry :huh i meant some place were i could get, say $300,000 :rofl :rofl
oops thanks just saw your revision !
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Go with the PHILL refueling thingy and eliminate the middleman. But I imagine it will only be a matter of time before the state/federal government figures out a way to squeeze the highway tax out of those that refuel at home.
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good idea mickey, i never thought of that , i have a gas line at home.
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know a guy with one.. he says he gets the same milage as a normal gas powered one. there are few stations but he is going to put one in his garage PHILL as someone said.. it takes 6 hours tho to fill the car.. and.. it costs 4k..
Still.. he is paying about two bucks a gallon.. he will get an even cheaper rate (bulk) once he builds his station in his home.
lazs
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PHILL is a first generation device. If people would just follow the "Pickens Plan" newer more effecient "homebrew" devices will emerge.
From a buisness point of view, why wouldn't you want a CNG fuel port at your gas station? The expense is not that great, and if CNG cars don't take hold you can always refill barbecue tanks at 3x the retail market value of the product like those tank exchange places do today.
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I found this interesting on a Prudhoe Bay website, the author is describing the activities at the gas refinery. http://www.d.umn.edu/~hoef0049/prudhoe.html (http://www.d.umn.edu/~hoef0049/prudhoe.html).
All of the water and some of the gas is reinjected back into the ground to enhance the formation pressure. A fraction of the natural gas is used to heat all the buildings in Prudhoe Bay. The rest, an enormous amount, must simply be burned off. There currently* is no practical way to get that gas to market.
*Research and debate is under way right now in Alaska on how to ship the gas. Two of the main options include a new pipeline, and ways to liquefy the gas to send it down the existing pipeline.
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The big oil barons will crush the natural gas threat,like a snake in their own home.They are not about to let any alternate fuel sources threaten their profits.
IronDog
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irondog, the "big oil barons" are really big energy barons, they will sell you any type of energy they can.
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I found this interesting on a Prudhoe Bay website, the author is describing the activities at the gas refinery. http://www.d.umn.edu/~hoef0049/prudhoe.html (http://www.d.umn.edu/~hoef0049/prudhoe.html).
Thats just great...a source of power being burnt..sad, real said
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PHILL is a first generation device. If people would just follow the "Pickens Plan" newer more effecient "homebrew" devices will emerge.
From a buisness point of view, why wouldn't you want a CNG fuel port at your gas station? The expense is not that great, and if CNG cars don't take hold you can always refill barbecue tanks at 3x the retail market value of the product like those tank exchange places do today.
BBQ grills do not use NG they use propane.
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BBQ grills do not use NG they use propane.
Mine uses NG.
http://www.grillsdirect.com/gas-grills/grills-with-carts/weberq300gasgrill.cfm
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The big oil barons will crush the natural gas threat,like a snake in their own home.They are not about to let any alternate fuel sources threaten their profits.
IronDog
Why would they? They are the same ones that pump Propane and Natural Gas out of the ground.
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Mine uses NG.
http://www.grillsdirect.com/gas-grills/grills-with-carts/weberq300gasgrill.cfm
Sorry mickey, you may have purchased a conversion kit to hook that up to your house's NG system, but the grill in that link burns propane.
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Most gas grills now give you a choice. Just needs a different regulator, and the CNG burns a little cooler than LP.
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Most gas grills now give you a choice. Just needs a different regulator, and the CNG burns a little cooler than LP.
Yup, like I said, you can buy a kit to run a grill on your house's NG. It consists of a replacement regulator and orfices. The grill in link runs on propane out of the box.
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I converted it. Although there are grills that use NG out of the box.
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glad to see more people talking about this. I posted awhile back about this and it didn't seem like many people were interested. As i see it the biggest obstacle to NG autos right now is the EPA. We could switch over every car in the US in a very short amount of time if the EPA would let loose there grip on power over the parts makers. They have decided that every conversion has to be OBDII compliant. This elevates cost to around the neighborhood of $100,000 to $300,000 per model year per engine option. Never mind that NG burn cleaner than gasoline even without all the extra emissions crap on it.