Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: FrodeMk3 on September 12, 2008, 01:27:38 AM
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I'm gonna start this one up, to kinda keep tabs' on what's going on. Here's a news linky:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_us (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_us)
Anyways, in the past, one of the acts that immediately precipitated hostilities was the expulsion of foreign/enemy diplomats. This story might be worth following, to try to pick out what's going on...and it's funny that it co-incided with the arrival of the visiting Russian bombers.
Also, if any of you fellas' closely following the election pick up on any bits' from the candidates about this latest development, please share...
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"Chavez made the move in solidarity with Bolivia after his Andean ally expelled the U.S. diplomat there, accusing him of aiding violent protests. He said a new American ambassador will not be welcome in Caracas "until there's a U.S. government that respects the people of Latin America," suggesting that diplomatic relations will be scaled back until President Bush leaves the White House."
The russian bombers musta been carrying nukes.
when the hell is the CIA gonna pull the plug on the chip in this guys head?
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I seriously doubt that we are going to attack Venezuela, or that Venezuela is going to attack us. I think this is just more garbage from a paranoid lunatic.
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this guy actually needs a tin foil hat.
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"Chavez made the move in solidarity with Bolivia after his Andean ally expelled the U.S. diplomat there, accusing him of aiding violent protests. He said a new American ambassador will not be welcome in Caracas "until there's a U.S. government that respects the people of Latin America," suggesting that diplomatic relations will be scaled back until President Bush leaves the White House."
The russian bombers musta been carrying nukes.
when the hell is the CIA gonna pull the plug on the chip in this guys head?
Hang, I would think that if they actually flew over armed, with live warheads, and it was found out, there would be a poopstorm in both the press and capitol hill. However, it's only two, not something like twenty...I do wonder, though, if Putin would be crazy enough to gift Nuclear weapons' to someone like Chavez.
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Lets see.. coupla bears, russian navy port calls... yeah that's it.
He just wants us to think he's a nutball with a nuke.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the oval office this morning.
this really gettin to be an interesting world.
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It's pretty standard stuff. Chavez needs the US as the enemy to deflect his people from the realities of his own failures as a leader and the poverty of many of his citizens despite all the oil revenues. Iran uses the same method. The external threat idea keeps people compliant. He's a man out of his depth and fears the consequences of internal dissent.
On the other hand he is probably right. The US government probably wants his head. But to be honest as long as he sells his oil to the USA. He is safe. If he cuts off the oil. His country goes broke and he falls. He's a man on the brink and he knows it.
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The Chinese and Indians will eagerly buy all the oil the USA doesn't want.
Tronsky
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It's pretty standard stuff. Chavez needs the US as the enemy to deflect his people from the realities of his own failures as a leader and the poverty of many of his citizens despite all the oil revenues. Iran uses the same method. The external threat idea keeps people compliant. He's a man out of his depth and fears the consequences of internal dissent.
Isn't that what the current US administration is doing?
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:noid = Chavez
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The Chinese and Indians will eagerly buy all the oil the USA doesn't want.
Tronsky
The problem is, it isn't nearly as profitable for Chavez, and China and India aren't going to make up the difference, either.
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Another lil Hitler!I wish he'd attack one of his neighbors,and give us a reason to add Valenzuela to the U.S.A.'s ever expanding global police force list of countries to be reformed.I'm sure the C.I.A. is working on a method of dispatching him.
IronDog
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Don`t know what else is to be expected. The puppet moves when the hand up the rear moves.
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It's pretty standard stuff. Chavez needs the US as the enemy to deflect his people from the realities of his own failures as a leader and the poverty of many of his citizens despite all the oil revenues. Iran uses the same method. The external threat idea keeps people compliant. He's a man out of his depth and fears the consequences of internal dissent.
On the other hand he is probably right. The US government probably wants his head. But to be honest as long as he sells his oil to the USA. He is safe. If he cuts off the oil. His country goes broke and he falls. He's a man on the brink and he knows it.
well... when chavez came into office the poverty rate was like 55%... and it was 27 % last year... throw in country's double digit gdp growth and the truth comes quite clear.
of course chavez irks the socialist elite types and their ilk here... as he is beating them at their own game. after their failed coup attempt he took back 20 billion dollars of venezuela's money from their federal reserve and set up a south american bank... effectively throwing off the imf yoke of perpetual poverty which the country had been living under for decades. so now a percentage of wealth derived from oil sales actually stays in the country rather than it all being recycled through wall street and then loaned back to venezuela via the imf with the usual punitive 16% interest charges.
to their great pleasure chavez is helping a lot of other countries throw off the yoke of the imf... pissing off the socialist to no end. he curbed the flow of petrodollars to wall street effectively stopping venezuela and other countries from subsidizing the the socialist's economy... hence the recent frothing by the socialist elites and the credit crunch for wall street and the housing market crash.
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Citgo gas stations are owned by Venezuela, just saying.
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The Chinese and Indians will eagerly buy all the oil the USA doesn't want.
Tronsky
Hmmm...I wonder what the total effect of taking all that oil to asian markets would be?
I imagine that gasoline and other petroleum products' might get cheaper, with a larger supply. However, what would the monetary hit to Venz. be? Would they be able to make up the price difference with volume? And what could the possible impact on prices' here in the U.S. be?
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(http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/FIdelMinime.jpg)
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Citgo gas stations are owned by Venezuela, just saying.
No, they are not. 100 percent of CITGO stations are owned by private American entrepreneurs (as is the case with the vast majority of gas stations in America).
Charon
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The external threat idea keeps people compliant.
repub politics?
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This pretty much sums up chavez.
"That's enough ... from you, Yankees," Chavez said, using an expletive. Waving his fists in the air, he added: "I hold the government of the United States responsible for being behind all the conspiracies against our nations!"
He needs a boogie man to keep attention off of his de facto dictatorship and to maintain any lid on popular protest from his serfs. As long as he can make the folks at home feel threatened by outside forces he keeps attention focused away from him and his actions.
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The Chinese and Indians will eagerly buy all the oil the USA doesn't want.
Tronsky
well, since we generally try to help everyone, and it seems everyone hates us for it, then maybe we should help ourselves.........to their oil. bring our guys back from the snadbox, and send em down there to secure the oil fields for US. what's the worst that can happen? everyone'll dislike us more?
sorry......that was my inner pissed off child talking. :D
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No, they are not. 100 percent of CITGO stations are owned by private American entrepreneurs (as is the case with the vast majority of gas stations in America).
Charon
the stations may be owned by americans, but CITGO is owned by PDVSA.
"Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA) is the Venezuelan state-owned petroleum company. It has activities in exploration, production, refining and exporting oil, as well as exploration and production of natural gas. PDVSA dominates the oil industry of Venezuela, the world's fifth largest oil exporter.
PDVSA purchased 50% of the United States gasoline brand Citgo from Southland Corporation in 1986 and the remainder in 1990."
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the stations may be owned by americans, but CITGO is owned by PDVSA.
"Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA) is the Venezuelan state-owned petroleum company. It has activities in exploration, production, refining and exporting oil, as well as exploration and production of natural gas. PDVSA dominates the oil industry of Venezuela, the world's fifth largest oil exporter.
PDVSA purchased 50% of the United States gasoline brand Citgo from Southland Corporation in 1986 and the remainder in 1990."
Believe it!
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/iamscotto/CitgoChavez.jpg)
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Chavez needs to be careful. If he uses energy as a weapon against the US that would present one hell of an opportunity to do a hussein maneover on him. If Russia comes down and tries to intervene then hammer those Russian forces with conventional attacks. If Russia then wants to go Nuclear I say lets get it over with.
If you allow the Russians to believe they can expoit you then they most assuredly will, and currently are.
What we need are leaders willing to tell Putin up fron that if he wants war he can have it. Otherwise he will walk all over us.
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Chavez needs to be careful. If he uses energy as a weapon against the US that would present one hell of an opportunity to do a hussein maneover on him. If Russia comes down and tries to intervene then hammer those Russian forces with conventional attacks. If Russia then wants to go Nuclear I say lets get it over with.
If you allow the Russians to believe they can expoit you then they most assuredly will, and currently are.
What we need are leaders willing to tell Putin up fron that if he wants war he can have it. Otherwise he will walk all over us.
But Bush hasn't so far. And if Chavez does get nasty with the oil, and he has Russian backing, my question is how WILL we respond? The same way we did with Georgia?
That was a good point Yeager.
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chavez needs to sell his oil, it's major source of income for his country. If he sells to someone else that just frees up oil from other producers.
The price of a barrel of oil has dropped to around $100 because of decreased demand.
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Here's a new story about what's happening:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/us_venezuela (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/us_venezuela)
It seems' that we've expelled their ambassadors now, as well.
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This is interesting. First the Russians pull into Venezuala carrying disclosed cargo, and next Chavez expelles the U.S. ambasador. I've got a bad feeling about this :(
Kinda ironic how Chavez hates the U.S. so much, and yet they are a major U.S. oil trader. Not completly sure, but I think the reason the U.S. buy their oil, and they sell it to us is because their oil is heavier than normal and only the U.S. has means of making in use out of it. Could some verify this?
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This is interesting. First the Russians pull into Venezuala carrying disclosed cargo, and next Chavez expelles the U.S. ambasador. I've got a bad feeling about this :(
Kinda ironic how Chavez hates the U.S. so much, and yet they are a major U.S. oil trader. Not completly sure, but I think the reason the U.S. buy their oil, and they sell it to us is because their oil is heavier than normal and only the U.S. has means of making in use out of it. Could some verify this?
That's true; Venezualan crude is very heavy, sour crude. I don't know if we are the only ones that can refine it, however I know that we can and do.
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I personally believed that we should have lit every single Venezuelan oil well on fire when they nationalized the rest. Including the ones they already owned.
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It seems to me that Russia is once again trying to make a presence in the western hemisphere, with this venezualan bomber run and more cuban relationships.
another cold war ahead?
maybe a hot war?
I certainly hope that our submarines are strategically located now.
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But Bush hasn't so far. And if Chavez does get nasty with the oil, and he has Russian backing, my question is how WILL we respond? The same way we did with Georgia?
That was a good point Yeager.
How well can the Russians back Chavez? I'm guessing they can only provide token assistance this far from Russia. It's not like with Georgia which is on the same land mass.
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How well can the Russians back Chavez? I'm guessing they can only provide token assistance this far from Russia. It's not like with Georgia which is on the same land mass.
I dont think the russians would militarily back chavez in earnest, but rather just a token jesture.
I dont think russia wants the world to see how inferior their military equipment has become compared to ours.
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Seems some people also tend to forget that Chavez is a vocal supporter of the FARC terrorists in Colombia, even allows them to set up bases on the Venezualen side of the border. Colombia got get up a few months ago and launched a raid on one of those bases, killing the 2nd in command of FARC. Reports are that Ecuador has also allowed FARC a foot hold on their side of the border as well.
ack-ack
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I dont think the russians would militarily back chavez in earnest, but rather just a token jesture.
I dont think russia wants the world to see how inferior their military equipment has become compared to ours.
There just happens to be a few separatist regions that are unhappy with Chavez, It seems they are requesting US passports and would like a little tank and arty support... :D
Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez has warned that the United States is planing to support separatist movements in various anti-Chavez departments in that oil-rich country.
“We are in Maracaibo, land of liberators and natural resources, but this is also the epicenter of a separatist plan orchestrated by Washington,” the president said. “Now,” pointed out Chavez, “the oligarchy and the counterrevolutionaries want to extend those manoeuvres to other departments, such as Merida, Apure and Falcon, in order to create a so-called divisionist chain.”
http://undergroundradical.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/us-planning-to-use-separatists-to-divide-venezuela/ (http://undergroundradical.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/us-planning-to-use-separatists-to-divide-venezuela/)
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There just happens to be a few separatist regions that are unhappy with Chavez, It seems they are requesting US passports and would like a little tank and arty support...
Gotta wonder if Boroda read that. :devil