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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MiloMorai on September 12, 2008, 06:18:35 AM

Title: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: MiloMorai on September 12, 2008, 06:18:35 AM
That is a lot of dollars. :eek:

By ELIANE ENGELER, Associated Press Writer

The United States leads the world in economic loss from deaths caused by armed crime, according to a global survey released Friday.

The U.S. registered an estimated loss of up to $45.1 billion in terms of economic productivity because of violent crimes, said the report by the U.N. Development Program and the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey.

At least 490,000 people are killed in armed crimes each year worldwide, placing a huge economic cost and social burden on nations, the report said.

The report did not give a country-by-country breakdown of the numbers of people killed in armed crimes.

But the report said that Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica and South Africa are among the countries with the highest numbers of recorded violent crimes in the world.

More people are killed worldwide in violent crimes every year than in wars, it said, asserting that the phenomenon of armed killings and its economic impact on nations is largely underreported.

In the 90 countries surveyed, the economic cost from people killed by arms each year is estimated to total between $95 billion and $163 billion, according to the report.

"These estimates are based on calculations of the 'lost product' that is represented by premature deaths from armed violence," said Achim Wennmann of the Small Arms Survey.

"These people — had they lived — would have contributed as any other individual as productive members of society. Their deaths represent a loss that can be quantified," he told The Associated Press.

The cost arising from these deaths includes a wide range of expenses from medical care, legal proceedings, and lost earnings to lost investment, the 162-page report said.

Wennmann said the report was based on figures compiled by international organizations and national authorities. The most recent available statistics from all the 90 countries surveyed were from 2004, said Wennmann, one of the editors of the report.

He said they had more recent statistics from North America.

In 2007, the region lost up to $46.76 billion from armed violence, he said. The vast majority of that loss — up to $44.8 billion — occurred in the United States, said Wennmann.

Guatemala — which has a high rate of violent crime but a smaller population and a much lower GDP than the United States — the cost of armed violence was estimated to be nearly $2.4 billion in 2005, the latest year of data available, the report said. The figure includes health expenses, security costs, impact on investment and material losses.

Cecile Molinier, who directs the U.N. Development Program's office in Geneva, said armed violence is an obstacle in the fight against poverty.

"It tears apart the social fabric of communities, creates fear and insecurity, destroys human and social capital and undermines development," she said.

Among the 90 countries are nations from every continent, including Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Ethiopia, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Russia and the United States.

The report was written for the secretariat of the 2006 Geneva Declaration on Armed Violence and Development — a document signed by 94 states that have pledged to work toward reducing the number of violent crimes.

The United States is not a signatory of the declaration.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on September 12, 2008, 06:43:58 AM
I'm glad the U.S. is not a signatory of that Bravo Sierra.

Victims "would have contributed as any other individual as productive members of society". Sure, IF you consider them all to be honest hard working citizens. It sounds impressive until you see the REAL figures on how many of those killed were killed in criminal on criminal crimes.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 12, 2008, 07:00:44 AM
They said "Armed crimes"
But didnt define what "arms" specifically.

Arms can mean alot of things besides guns.

Knife,
Baseball bat
Pipe wrench
Lead Pipe
Hatchet
Axe
Frozen leg of lamb
Car (Yes car)

C'mon boys and girls.
What other arms can you name besides guns?

Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Tango on September 12, 2008, 07:13:12 AM
Gang Bangers are not productive citizens.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2008, 08:18:30 AM
Gang Bangers are not productive citizens.

Gang bangers kill each other in droves here in the US, making our murder rate look much worse.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: john9001 on September 12, 2008, 08:19:44 AM
"U.N. Development Program and the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey."...??

Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Angus on September 12, 2008, 08:50:10 AM
Gang bangers kill each other in droves here in the US, making our murder rate look much worse.

They are a part of the total murder rate.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2008, 08:54:35 AM
They are a part of the total murder rate.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

Gang bangers are a very small part of our population, yet the amount of murders they commit (many times against each other) is all out of proportion to their part of the population. Don't join a gang, or live near them and your odds of getting murdered go way down.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Jackal1 on September 12, 2008, 08:56:56 AM
Living costs billions. Eating costs billions. Travel costs billions. Hell......everything costs billions. <shrug>
What`s the point?
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Charon on September 12, 2008, 09:14:20 AM
Quote
These people — had they lived — would have contributed as any other individual as productive members of society. Their deaths represent a loss that can be quantified," he told The Associated Press.

I beleive the latest Chicago homicide report shows that 80 percent of these fine citizens who became victims had extensive criminal records and gang ties. In their case, being killed by another criminal, the earlier the better, cuts down considerabley on their long-term costs to society.

Charon
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on September 12, 2008, 09:17:03 AM
I beleive the latest Chicago homicide report shows that 80 percent of these fine citizens who became victims had extensive criminal records and gang ties. In their case, being killed by another criminal, the earlier the better, cuts down considerabley on their long-term costs to society.

Charon

Exactly. And the whole report that was posted to start the thread is nothing more than an obvious UN anti-gun screed.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Hornet33 on September 12, 2008, 09:22:50 AM
Exactly. And the whole report that was posted to start the thread is nothing more than an obvious UN anti-gun screed.

Yep, wasn't even worth reading.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: lazs2 on September 12, 2008, 10:00:46 AM
The UN?   we ought to throw em out.. after we make em pay all their back rent and parking tickets.

Who cares about the UN?

lazs
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2008, 10:03:11 AM
Quote
Who cares about the UN?

Europe?
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: GtoRA2 on September 12, 2008, 10:08:59 AM
So freedom is costly? Who didnt know that?

Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: JAGED on September 12, 2008, 10:11:51 AM
What about armless killings?   :D

(http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/blog/Monty_Python_2__limbless_Black_Knight.jpg)
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: lazs2 on September 12, 2008, 10:37:43 AM
cracks me up..   the cost is what is now used by the socialists to take away every individual freedom..  why not ban swimming?  do you know how many people drown a year or worse.. are left as vegetables we all pay for?

seatbelts helmets  fat tax smoking bans you name it..  if you can show that it might cost someone money then you need to ban it or take away that freedom.

Government is the biggest expense in every one of our lives.   that is what we need to get under control.

lazs
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Mr No Name on September 12, 2008, 10:40:22 AM
The UN?   we ought to throw em out.. after we make em pay all their back rent and parking tickets.

Who cares about the UN?

lazs


'Zactly
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: AKIron on September 12, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
Vote for Obama and he'll sign whatever the UN pushes our way. The UN will take care of us.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: FrodeMk3 on September 12, 2008, 11:45:44 AM
That report didn't really define the "crimes", either. They might be considering ethnic cleansing in the former yugoslavia as a crime. They might be considering the eternal struggle between warlords' in Somalia as a crime. They might be considering the withholding of food from the starving in Africa as a crime. They need to show what their guidelines are.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: wrag on September 12, 2008, 12:32:50 PM
Living costs billions. Eating costs billions. Travel costs billions. Hell......everything costs billions. <shrug>
What`s the point?

To manufacture a reason to disarm people?
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 12, 2008, 04:33:52 PM
Gang bangers kill each other in droves here in the US, making our murder rate look much worse.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Getback on September 12, 2008, 04:39:25 PM
So freedom is costly? Who didnt know that?


:rofl :rofl :rofl

I know Russia had almost no crime under Stalin since guns were not allowed by pedestrians. I mean if you don't count the 10s of millions he had put to death.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2008, 04:40:56 PM
You say that like it's a bad thing.

Artificially increasing our murder rate is a bad thing......  makes us all look bad.  :uhoh
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 12, 2008, 04:43:00 PM
Artificially increasing our murder rate is a bad thing......  makes us all look bad.  :uhoh

You know, they can only *Temporarily* increase the murder rate for a little while.  I say we let them do it.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: 1pLUs44 on September 12, 2008, 04:55:57 PM
Honestly, they just said armed killings (which also probably means woundings.)



As far as I see it, 1 thing.

1. I can guarantee you a hell of a lot of those killings were in self defence.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: mtnman on September 12, 2008, 08:49:35 PM
Artificially increasing our murder rate is a bad thing......  makes us all look bad.  :uhoh

Hmmm, I'm not so sure...

I consider myself extremely fortunate just to live here in the US.  If the murder rate is so blasted high, then maybe I'm extra fortunate- in that I haven't been murdered yet.

So having the murder rate inflated could actually make me feel better about myself.  As in "I consider myself extremely fortunate to still be alive here in these dangerous United States!  Maybe non-US folks will look at us and think "Boy, those folks must be super-elite survivors, somehow managing to make it to adulthood in a country where firearms are legal and common..."

I may be desensitized to the danger-level of my environment though, since I can't even remember dodging all the bullets that must have been flying around me this morning on my way to work.  Rural Wisconsin may look peaceful, but when you realize what percentage of us have firearms (that we regularly use...) it must amaze the world that we can even have a sustainable popluation of breeding humans in these parts.  Cripes, if you toss in all the alcohol consumed here...

MtnMan
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Hangtime on September 12, 2008, 08:50:56 PM
:rofl :rofl :rofl

I know Russia had almost no crime under Stalin since guns were not allowed by pedestrians. I mean if you don't count the 10s of millions he had put to death.

Birth of the Drive-By Insurgency.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 12, 2008, 08:58:38 PM
I beleive the latest Chicago homicide report shows that 80 percent of these fine citizens who became victims had extensive criminal records and gang ties. In their case, being killed by another criminal, the earlier the better, cuts down considerabley on their long-term costs to society.

Charon

There ya go.
By them killing each other off they are providing a self perpetuating public service.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Masherbrum on September 12, 2008, 09:08:06 PM
What other arms can you name besides guns?

What about a pen?   Joe Pesci made it look easy in Casino.
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: Elfie on September 12, 2008, 09:18:00 PM
Hmmm, I'm not so sure...

I consider myself extremely fortunate just to live here in the US.  If the murder rate is so blasted high, then maybe I'm extra fortunate- in that I haven't been murdered yet.

So having the murder rate inflated could actually make me feel better about myself.  As in "I consider myself extremely fortunate to still be alive here in these dangerous United States!  Maybe non-US folks will look at us and think "Boy, those folks must be super-elite survivors, somehow managing to make it to adulthood in a country where firearms are legal and common..."

I may be desensitized to the danger-level of my environment though, since I can't even remember dodging all the bullets that must have been flying around me this morning on my way to work.  Rural Wisconsin may look peaceful, but when you realize what percentage of us have firearms (that we regularly use...) it must amaze the world that we can even have a sustainable popluation of breeding humans in these parts.  Cripes, if you toss in all the alcohol consumed here...

MtnMan

It's the gang bangers in big cities that are committing the most murders, and that is what I've been talking about in this thread......

I have no clue what the heck you are trying to say.  :huh
Title: Re: Armed killings cost nations billions
Post by: lazs2 on September 13, 2008, 09:48:31 AM
the only thing that bothers me is that they are such lousy shots.   

lazs